Why is Dean's position on NAFTA always overlooked?

[Magical]

Why is Dean's position on NAFTA and WTO always overlooked? He says he's supportive of bringing jobs back (as if no one else is) but when it comes right down to it he is a proponent of NAFTA and WTO. This and my gut feeling makes him look too cororate for me. I'm hoping that all the Dean supporters won't gang up and flame me, since I'm looking for reasonable explanations and opinions that are backed up. If I get clearified on this I might be softer towards Dean.
O8) :shrug: O8) :shrug:

[brokensymmetry]

1. I didn't know this.

Are any of our candidates against NAFTA and WTO?

[Magical]

2. YES!!

Dennis Kucinch is the one I know of.

[indigo32]

3. What about Sharpton?

otherwise... really DK is the only one.

[sandnsea]

17. Gephardt too

If I recall correctly.

[JNelson6563]

4. I may be wrong

but I thought I heard him say that he would include workers' rights in trade agreements. To me this seems a good solution. If they can't pay their help ridiculously cheap wages then they can't undercut better paying nations so drastically.

I could be wrong but I thought that was Dean's view.

Julie

[w13rd0]

5. You aren't wrong...

...but there are those trying to paint it a certain way. NAFTA, WTO and other trade agreements are treaties, signed into law. Dennis can't wave his magic wand and make them go away, not unless he's planning to continue the erosion of seperation of powers that Bush has begun...

[Trek234]

19. Are you for real?

Every candidate says they will do something when they get in to office - and just about everything they say they will do requires changes of law.

When a candidate says X will be done it generally means that they will petition congress (or whatever body appropriate) for the changes.

Of course I'm sure you know this, and just want to attack Kucinich.

[dajabr]

6. It hasn't...

"On trade issues, Dean has pledged to renegotiate current trade agreements (including NAFTA) and oppose new trade agreements that do not require the enforcement of internationally recognized workers' rights and environmental standards. He will also "oppose any further rounds of the World Trade Organization agreements that do not make substantial progress on incorporating" these rights and standards. When asked about policy toward Africa and the Caribbean Basin at the NAACP Presidential Forum, Dean voiced his support for debt forgiveness and remarked that "we need to get the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank off the backs of these countries. ... The conditions that are attached mean that the whole country depends on a free market system in order to get food to the poorest people in that country. It doesn't make any sense at all. ... Now that we're imposing a Western economic model on African countries, we find there's famine. What a big surprise. We need to work cooperatively with African governments instead of telling them what to do." Dean was awarded the inaugural Paul Wellstone Award by the AFL-CIO in January 2003 for "Exceptional Support of Workers' Freedom to Form Unions," and maintained a 100% rating with the AFL-CIO's Committee on Political Education while serving as a state representative. He is also a vocal proponent of workplace democratization, in which employees own the majority of a firm's stock."

More: http://deandefense.org/archives/000596.html#more

[friendofbenn]

7. i wouldnt be suprised if dean dropped the workers rights...

and environmental protection amendments on election

[Ripley]

14. Why?

What makes you say that?

[Trek234]

20. Probably because of no congressional support

Make no mistake - most candidates promises will NOT come to pass when the congress is controlled by republicans.

This is why the 04 congressional races should be focused on greatly.

[blm]

27. Because he only shifted his position

from free trade at the end of january. YOU may believe his recent conversions towards issues on the left, many of us will not.

[sangha]

28. Talk is cheap

I'd like the Dean supporters to quote what Dean said about NAFTA before he started running for Pres.

[janx]

8. I'm not going to beat you up or flame you...!

But to me, it's not an either/or situation. There are big problems with world trade, but that doesn't necessarily mean we have to bag it altogether. To do so would be crazy. Our economy has been so intertwined with the economy of the rest of the world for so long now that it might even be impossible.

[Magical]

9. I stand corrected.

Dean's position isn't bas at all. Although Dennis isn't completely against trade either. He would replace Nafta w/ an agreement much like you described what Dean would do. I think the confusion came from the differance between changing and replacing which in this case there realy isn't one.

[Magical]

10. Sorry misspell: Dean's position isn't bad...

[Gingersnap]

31. Kucinich supports bilateral Fair trade

He isn't opposed to all international trade. I just watched his speech in Iowa (8.3) that was broadcast on CSPAN (and is linked on another post today from Magical) and that is what he said.

A lot of his ideas sound "out there" or unfeasible until you hear the speeches and read further into them. Then they make sense.

[StandWatie]

11. he said no more treaties

at least ones without human rights and labor standards attached so all you can really do is let bygones be bygones, no matter what GW Bush thinks you can no more unsign a treaty than you can take back a bet after the fact.

[xchrom]

12. his position is way better than clinton's was

these treaties need to be re-negotiated and a moratorium on any new ones. he comes very close to that.

[sangha]

29. Clinton's position was the same as Deans

After NAFTA Clinton started saying he would require the same environmental and labor standards that Dean wants

[gully]

13. Did you hear him speak about the issue tonight?

He gave an eloquent answer to the NAFTA question.

His answer is far more complex then say Dennis Kucinich's 'repeal NAFTA' jargon however.

[Trek234]

21. And far more difficult to come to pass

Kucinich has a real answer - Dean is fantasy land.

Unless you really believe China (among others) is going to start respecting workers rights any time soon.

[JNelson6563]

30. first of all you must think

that the House and Senate will also be Dem majority and everyone will just hop on the bandwagon to repeal NAFTA.

Are you for real?

Do you also see Kucinich as electable in this nation that has gone so far right?

Again, are you for real?

Julie-the realist

[Gingersnap]

32. see message 31

and watch the video.

[mandyky]

15. Dean believes in Fair trade which means creating

middle class economies by exporting organized labor, environmental standards, and labor laws (equal rights for women, no child labor,etc). He is talking about renegotiating existing trade agreements.

[Trek234]

22. Exactly

And he is full of bull.

China and others are not going to create such labor laws. We are talking revolution in many places for that to happen.

His renegotiation will be a total failure.

I don't think it's a bad goal, but it's just not going to happen.

[redeye]

16. Lemme ask you a question

What's so wrong with free trade agreements? Dean doesn't support NAFTA in its current form, but would support it if it strengthened environmental and workers' protections. And frankly, I don't have a problem with job exportation, because Indians and Chinese deserve jobs as much as, and perhaps more than, Americans.

[FubarFly]

18. That's all fine and good, until you get laid-off. n/t

[Mechatanketra]

24. Fair enough, but ...

Why does 'free trade' cause layoffs? Typically, because it's cheaper for corporations to move those jobs to other countries than keep them here.

What makes those other countries cheaper? Typically, because they have weaker labor protections and/or environmental regulations.

It's an osmosis thing. If you get rid of the 'greener grass' on the other side of the fence, you get rid of the incentive for those jobs to be dispersed. There would be little point in moving jobs to China to avoid dealing with the trade unions here if it just means dealing with China's trade unions instead.

I don't think Dean's stance on free trade is perfect, but it's not blindly corporatist either.

[redeye]

26. Protectionism's all fine and good...

...until Chinese and Indians and Sotuh Africans and Mexians get laid off.

[waggawagga]

23. I Don't Think There's a Dem who Opposes NAFTA

A US withdrawl from NAFTA or the WTO in the next few years is pie in the sky. This would be like withdrawing from the UN. If your concerned about labor, trade, corporate issues, etc., you should remember that the president determines what the US stance is vis a vis these institutions (so you might research these questions). If this is a make or break issue your only choice is to vote Green (but remember what that led to).

[DemBones DemBones]

25. Dennis Kucinich is a Dem who opposes NAFTA. He would repeal

NAFTA and WTO agreements. Clinton's "free trade" (what a misnomer!) policies were the worst thing he did and we are paying the price now. The economy was strong when Clinton was in office but Bush* and Cheney successfully ended that. If you remember, they began talking down the economy well before the 2000 election, warning ominously of a recession, all in order to get tax cuts for themselves and others in the highest income brackets. They tanked the economy and companies have been laying people off right and left, exporting their jobs to countries where people work for little pay and no benefits and have little or no protection against work hazards.