Thread Lockings

[TennesseeWalker]

Just curious as to what everyone thinks about the temporary thread lockings rule set out to "improve the quality in the discussion forum". Noble effort, and I understand the desire for critical thinking.

However, when I first read the rules, they kind of pissed me off. Does this make me a Libertarian? Am I destined to eventually reside in Wyoming, or New Hampshire, or Vermont, or South Dakota? Will I be banished to a "free state" for DARING TO USE CAPITAL LETTERS IN MY SENTENCES ON AN INTERNET CHAT ROOM?

Oh the humanity! Wonder if this is where the "Dilbert" guy gets his material?

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. I just wanted to reply before this got locked.

I think it's fine...My posts are still sinking just as fast though.

[TennesseeWalker]

88. And GOSH A'MIGHTY

They didn't LOCK my thread b4 I went to bed! Thanks, DU, for freedom and democracy. :) I love you guys!

[TennesseeWalker]

2. Oh, the IRONY

My thread is a DUPE. This is a happening of South Park Proportions...or at least Family Guy...

[CatWoman]

3. Actually, I like the new rules

keeps the dupes down, and the stupid nonsensical posts.

[Skittles]

4. BUT WHAT ABOUT ME CATWOMAN??????????

I'M A CAP FREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CatWoman]

14. Intervention, dear Skittles

Intervention.

Maybe we should start a DU CAPS Intervention group???

:hi:

[Maple]

5. It is also exasperating

in the middle of a conversation.

[TennesseeWalker]

10. Don't you think that posts sinking will make people improve their

writing style? I would think that we'd be happy to have all voices here on DU, without grading people. Democrats have already chased off enough voters. If they make it here, hooray.

Profanity, ok, I see how you could make an arguement that you want the discuss to set an example. But let people blow off a little steam sometimes..people get excited and just type a couple of sentence sometimes...nothing wrong with that...

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. I have a well written sinking post right now...I don't think it will make

a difference. Today, there is just too much Gore and Arnold, tomorow who knows what the heck else it would be. I just can never figure out why so many feel the need to post the same posts over just worded differently.

[TennesseeWalker]

22. I think that's more of being lazy and not looking closely enough at

other threads...

[NashVegas]

69. We Have a Troll Problem

A lot of the more contentious threads get polluted, not by people attempting to have a conversation, but attempting to halt meaningful conversation.

Sometimes it's just idiots wanting attention, sometimes, I suspect it's done by disruptors with a purpose. When a thread devolves into little more than flames, there's no point in wasting bandwidth - it's costing someone.

[XanaDUer]

7. I'm a rules girl, too!

n/t.

[CatWoman]

13. LOL

I think the Army has screwed me up for life!!!!

[inthecorneroverhere]

6. rules

It's an effort to get people to discuss substantive issues and to think about the political situation at hand, rather than get diverted into fractional arguments that divide us all.

Unos veces necesitamos reglas. (Sometimes we need rules).

[Dancing_Dave]

20. If so, it has exactly the opposite of it's intended effect

Really thinking through any substantive issue in an authentic way requires a conversation that goes on for a while. A person has to be me able to make intelligent responses to a number of other people. Complex issues take time to understand right. Locking out discussions right as they get started just leads to fast, shallow and wildly inaccurate thinking.

[TennesseeWalker]

23. AMEN, Brother...

you preach the gospel...LOL

[CWebster]

8. I really get a kick out of it

when ThorsteinVeblen stops around to post

"The Democratic Party is a rotting corpse."

Maybe some don't appreciate it for it's sinister levity. ;-)

[CatWoman]

15. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I get a kick out of Thor.

You have no idea how far along he's come.

A year ago, I had no idea he had a sense of humor.

[DEMActivist]

9. I love it.

Read more threads in GD today than I have in months.

[Momof1]

11. I totally agree with it

Its only 3 days, then I guess they will decide to either keep them, or not. Five sentences isn't that much to ask. And hey this isn't a democracy. Its what Skinner wants.

[TennesseeWalker]

18. Hmmmm...and a democracy isn't what

Dubya wants either.

[Dancing_Dave]

12. Thread locking destroys critical thinking and deep discussion

I just had a thread I posted get locked before I could properly answer some relevant questions, facts and issues that had come up. These conversations are stopped before any kind of rational conclusion is possible. It's basically censorship that favors prejudice and uncritical conformity by making it impossible for any deep or authentic conversation to develop.

[TennesseeWalker]

16. Hey...

that's what I think too! Ready to move to Montana? LOL

[CatWoman]

17. You can always repost you thread

to make sure it adheres with the rules.

What's so hard about that?

[TennesseeWalker]

19. You guys are either frustrated english teachers....

...or you are English Teachers! :) ...but I still love you anyway....LOL

[Dancing_Dave]

25. Then What Happens to the Unanswered Questions?

If I repost a thread, where are the intelligent peoples responses that I wanted to reply too? Why keep starting from zero? I don't see how that gets us anywhere.

[CatWoman]

27. what's stopping you from adding those questions in your new thread

and answering them?

[TennesseeWalker]

32. What if someone gets mad and LEAVES

because you locked their thread, and never comes back to participate in the discussion again, THUS leaving them forever separated from the DU Grammarian's Paradise?

[Ramsey]

41. Then they were thin skinned and uncommitted

Really, does that condition even sound plausible?? To a truly committed debater? I doubt it.

[TennesseeWalker]

48. Oh, sorry. You've convinced me.

We only allow "committed debaters" into DU. I didn't see that rule. Sorry. A thousand pardons.

Hey, guys, all rules are allowed a public hearing. And dissent IS allowed. And all different types, too. Some people may not be "committed debaters" and still like to read DU topics. I wouldn't want to post here if all my threads were locked. Some people are SHY and INSECURE, and even something as simple as a post can be of GREAT SIGNIFICANCE to them. If they are just trying to learn to debate, and all their threads get locked, they won't try anymore.

You guys are wrong, IN MY OPINION, which I am free to have.

FREE NATALIE!

[Ramsey]

55. Your hyperbole doesn't engage

The rules are for one forum out of a dozen. For the purpose of creating one forum for engaged discussion. We are all free to be as frivilous, as uncommitted, as shy and insecure or as idiotic on all the other forums as usual.

I am not clear as to why would you post at all if you don't wish to join a discussion or add something to it, outside of the vanity forums like the Lounge. I really don't understand why anyone would start a post that was totally pointless. This isn't a vanity site. It was esatblished to allow people to discuss progressive issues, to inform each other and to organize. All of which are the reasons I come here. Why do you?

The proposed rules for GD are very straightforward and very simple to follow. I cannot fathom why anyone who was inherently loathe to post would find them stifling. Your threads won't be locked if you adhere to a few simple guidelines, and I think your whole suggestion that people would be intimidated by that is condescending.

[TennesseeWalker]

58. Latest Breaking News is tightly restricted, and should be.

Most people don't go to the lounge, or even editorials. If you restrict GD too much, it will hurt DU. By making people who are just making their way to this site feel hurt. Most people DON'T argue well. It takes time to learn how to disagree. Let them grow up here, not on Free Republic, I BEG you.

[Ramsey]

71. LOL!!

FR is so open-minded compared to DU after all! And someone who is wavering between reading DU or reading FR has a serious fugue state going on!

Seriously, people don't learn to debate or argue by being subjected to endless flame wars either. All that vitriol is bound to drive away more people than a few rules designed to make things a little more civilized.

Let's consider, the new rules suggest we not use profanity, not use excessive punctuation, and that we not post 2 word main subjects. How does any of that inhibit one's ability to learn how to discuss? Remember, the restrictions apply to the main post, not to the subsequent replies.

Besides, people should read the other forums, there's lots of good stuff there.

[TennesseeWalker]

73. Hey, I have no problem with anybody.

Maybe some of the Freepers on the borderline...and don't think that there aren't people in the Lieberman middle that don't flop from side to side...would like to advance a little something into the discussion, and we change their minds? Why chase off potential clients? Are we supposed to minister to those in need?

:)

[Dancing_Dave]

75. It's inconvenient to the folks whose question I'm trying to answer.

People should be able to just get a straight answer to their question right where they put it, and not need to go hunting around to find where it may turned up quoted again. The whole point of these structured trees of responses has been defeated. We're heading towards the level of TV advertising.

[Stephanie]

62. Your thread was not locked, it was moved to another folder

Go to Foreign Affairs/National Security then to 9/11, Military Affairs, and Terrorism. Your thread is there.

You have a lot of opinions for someone who just got here.

[Dancing_Dave]

80. Thanks for letting me know.

Thanks for letting me know, I didn't get any message about it. But I did have a reason for bringing up what I think is a very general interest issue in a broad public forum, instead of something of more narrowly specialized interest. It's called trying to do real democracy about things that matter. And then when I tried to answer a legitimate question I get the response This Thread is Locked. Is that Democracy?

[NashVegas]

77. No, People Throwing Tantrums Destroy Critical Thinking etc

And I've seen a hellalotta that lately. Sucks for those who try to carry on a rational conversation, even when - or perhaps especially when they disagree.

[midnitemoleman]

24. To much micro-managing!!!!!

Makes me feel like big brother has found DU. It like in real life someone com[plains about something that is no problem and that has been going on for some time. Then someone complains and we all feel the wrath. It goes along with "I am the moderator, do as I say or be blocked". Oh well we are loseing free speach in the real world, it was only a matter of time till the power is king therory hit this board to. Sorry moderators, but the poster asked. I still like DU, but I have started to ween myself off posting all of the time, I still read the post but limit my reply's. At least the freepers have a little more freedom, they still suck, but they are free'er to speak and not have the hammer come down on them.

[TennesseeWalker]

29. Now someone's going to say

"Yes...and look at the quality of THEIR posts"...which also kind of pisses me off...I mean, those guys aren't the most enlightened bunch in the world, but at least they're talking about current events, which is more than most people do. I actually had an Arbitron rater call here tonight, who was obviously reading from a prepared text. I told him I would respond to his poll as long as he was affiliated with John Ashcroft.

He said, "Who's John Ashcroft?"

So pardon me if I don't mind if someone here on DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND screws around and posts a thread multiple times,or uses caps, or uses less than five sentences. Sheesh! I would hate to have you guys on a Zoning Board.

Leftists have GOT to stop with the elitist, everything must be perfect attitude. People aren't perfect, and I'm willing to give everyone a shot at expressing their opinions. ESPECIALLY if they've found DU, and are open to listening to what we've got to say!

PLEASE don't keep this policy. It is bad law, and it will turn off WAY more people than it will do to ensure good posts. Well intentioned, but NO GOOD.

Just have a discussion like this from time to time when posts get bad, don't make some arbitrary rule.

[devarsi]

26. I think it is annoying, and an excuse to censor dissent

This morning, I had three threads (not my own) locked while I was responding to the original poster, because the original message didn't pass muster.

I started a new thread (by the rules), expressing--to the members at large--my opinion that this was frustrating. The thread was not antagonistic in any way, but the thread was locked, unlocked, then locked again--allowing management to respond, but not any members. Someone obviously didn't feel as if any a free exchange of ideas and feelings was required on a forum devoted to democracy.

I wrote a new thread (by the rules), this time with a measure of polite anger, explaining to Skinner that my post wasnot directed at him, and therefore his opinion should not be the end of all discussion on the subject. I then asked Skinner to reopen the old thread. He immediately locked my new thread as well.

Apparently, one can no longer openly disagree with management around here, or even discuss dissenting viewpoints, or you get a jackboot lock on your thread.

[SoCalDem]

31. I solved the problem for me

I watched a long thought out one of mine round the corner to page 6 and I retreated to the lounge :)

So..if anyone is looking for me, I'll be there :)


on edit.. make that page NINE :(

here it was :(

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=134345&mesg_id=134345

[TennesseeWalker]

35. LOL

funny, funny funny....that's why I really like it here on DU...SOME of you guys actually have a sense of humor...it's why Jon Stewart is so popular...there's the secret to LIBERAL radio.....Harry Shearer and Al Franken and Jon Stewart...pretty good beginning for Al Gore's LIBERAL NETWORK

[CatWoman]

33. I think you're being selfish

really I do.

I've had threads locked.

Threads deleted.

Posts deleted.

Many of them.

Get used to it.

[devarsi]

39. Selfish? Please explain

why you think I am being selfish???

[TennesseeWalker]

40. Because....you won't agree with her point of view.

How dare you be so selfish?

[CatWoman]

43. I think you're being selfish

In that you're whining about your thread being locked.

Tennesse Walker -- take a walk.

I'm not asking anyone to agree with me -- I'm stating my opinion.

To reiterate: I've had many threads locked and deleted. I had one locked in the lounge after 80+ responses.

But I don't whine about it.

Cause I understand that somewhere along the line, a line was crossed.

This site exists as a free service. And it happens to be a lifeline for some. It is a one-stop shop for news, comraderie, information, you name it.

I don't see Admin being out of line, or overly demanding in asking that we adhere to the rules. It's not as if the rules set up for us are over the top.

One thing I have to give Skinner credit for -- he doesn't over react.

He gives many chances before he has to put his foot down.

[TennesseeWalker]

45. And a little bit of good natured needling.

Stop taking life soooo seriously. It will make you sick.

[CatWoman]

50. I see you can dish it out, but you can't take it

talk about making one sick.

[TennesseeWalker]

53. LOL

"making one sick".

You're not dishing out anything but elitism. And I won't take that.

[CatWoman]

57. have an eclair instead

[TennesseeWalker]

59. Hey...that is SWEET!

:) Thanks for the sweet response. I'll go to bed now. Thanks for letting me voice my opinion. I 'preciate 'cha!

[devarsi]

56. If you dont like dissent

close your eyes, plug your ears, and stay in your room.

You are in a thread asking our opinions on the new thread rule.

I don't like it, because it is annoying to put time into a response, only to find that the thread was locked before you could hit the little 'post message' button.

I don't like censorship, because I believe that we should be able to express ourselves, even when we disagree with the big dogs.

Especially when we disagree with the big dogs.

What did you expect when you came to this thread? Unanimous support?

And why is it that when you do not find what you are looking for in what I write, it becomes my fault, and you have to insult me to justify your position?

I didn't insult anyone, did I? I wasn't rude, or mean, I didn't resort to foul language or childish name calling. I tried to express myself calmly and coherently.

Yet, to you, I'm selfish and a whiner. Fine. I guess it selfish to have an opinion, and I guess its whining to disagree.

Based on this info, it seems as if we need an entirely new set of rules for posting at DU, but I doubt I'll like those rules either.

[CatWoman]

60. I know where I am

and I expressed an opinion, plain and simple.

I just get sick of the whining -- so sue me.

It really bothers me how people who don't are always trashing the admin here. I've been with DU since its inception (almost).

I've seen a lot.

I haven't always agreed with some of the things that have transpired, but I've always respected them.

[TennesseeWalker]

63. And thanks for YOUR opinion, too!

Civil discourse. People disagreeing with each other, but not suicide bombing each other...even when they're *GASP* CLEVER!

lol...love you guys! Goodnight.

[CatWoman]

67. you fucking coward

you started this.

why not stay to see it through?

[TennesseeWalker]

72. LOL...I have to go to WORK tomorrow...

and so much for the ANTI-PROFANITY part of the RULE!

LOL....how utterly ironic.

Peace.

[CatWoman]

84. I have to work, too

and the rules say nothing about profanity WITHIN posts.

You bitch about the rules, and don't even know them.

Go figure.

[TennesseeWalker]

86. LOL

Ok, profanity is good if it's hidden. :)Now I know the Rule. :)

[devarsi]

68. We Both Expressed An Opinion

but you didn't like my opinion, so you resorted to name calling.

I don't want to sue you, or even make you angry. The only thing I want is for you to live by your own rules.

You like the new 'thread lock" rule, because you think it will improve the quality of the forum.

I think it would be an improvement if people stopped insulting those they disagree with.

[CatWoman]

74. er, I was talking more to the originator of the thread than to you

if I recall correctly, I responded to his post.

[devarsi]

89. Check the thread

I don't think that you have recalled correctly

[TennesseeWalker]

76. Goodnight, my Enlightened Friend.

May all the Karma that comes your way be good. :)

[devarsi]

90. Goodnight Tennessee

Thanks for the thread, the good karma, and your resilliant humor

[fishnfla]

28. What is the purpose of the forum?

Discussion? BAH!!! Or is it to draw attention to our clever selves?

[TennesseeWalker]

38. What? Dissent in the ranks? Are you from the SOUTH, sir?

You dare to disagree with the great and powerful THREAD IMPROVEMENT AGENCY? The TIA? TIA, man! You musn't run afoul of the T.I.A.

[fishnfla]

47. Think you proved my point

Thanks.

[TennesseeWalker]

54. Cleverness is a virtue.

:)

[Robin Hood]

30. Sucks goat nuts.

Nope, No sir, I don't like it one bit.

[TennesseeWalker]

37. Woo Hoo! Goat's Nuts!

Hey...are you a GOATOPHOBE? What have you got against goats? Is the the "goat marriage" issue? Or do you have something against inbred hillbillies from the Southern Appalachians...like...*ulp*...ME!

[Robin Hood]

42. Hey, If you enjoy the fine pleasures of goat sucking than rock on.

I hear that they give better than they receive.

[TennesseeWalker]

44. LOL

"goat sucking"...I'm glad we've elevated the level of the discussion here with our new rules.

BWAH-HA-HA!

[Robin Hood]

46. I do what I can around here.

It's the little things that matter, like goat nuts. Though that's not particulary true. Once when I was on vacation in Florida, we drove through a ZOO and there was this tiny goat with nuts bigger than it's body. I swear to god!! these things were dragging on the ground.

The whole car got quite.

[Divernan]

34. Got a link to the temporary thread locking rule?

I haven't been on line a lot lately and this is all news to me. Where can I find the new rule? What's the "five sentence" requirement. Is it a minimum of five sentences in the original post?

[Ein]

36. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=129980&mesg_id=129980

[Ramsey]

49. I think your whole thread is melodramatic flame bait

I think the new GD rules are an excellent idea, they may very well improve the quality of this one forum to the point that anyone who doens't want to start or participate in a flame war may actually want to visit it and have a rational, thoughtful discussion about truly important issues, as opposed to the small minority who like to argue irrelevent points, stoke the fires of discord and stroke their own egos ad nauseum.

I think if you cannot express yourself without using dramatic punctuation or expletives, then you have a limited mind. I think if your subject matter doesn't warrant at least 5 sentences, then it probably isn't very interesting or important to begin with. I think that if you cannot announce your topic of discussion in your subject line then I have no interest in reading your post. I think if you think a privately owned and operated website is subject to the same rules of conduct and fairness as the federal government, then you are sadly misinformed and deluded.

This is a privately run website with hard working administrators who bend over backwards to accomodate the widest possible swath of liberal thought, a difficult to impossible task. Have you bothered to thank them?

[Ein]

51. I'm on the fence.

Sometimes someone posts just to ask a question. But in the case of the trolls, it might deter them a bit, b/c instead of a bait and run they might have to use thier brain to form an actual idea.

[TennesseeWalker]

52. Guys, flame bait is the last thing on my mind.

This is the best thread I've ever had on DU. I love my mother, Jesus, Al Gore and Jimmy Carter. I don't have a thousand posts, even though I've been reading this forum for a long time. I just don't run my mouth whenever I feel like it.

I really appreciate the discussion, and I hate to see it get tightened down. You people will never believe this, but I started to donate to DU today, right after I read Al Gore's speech. But if this elitist BS continues, I won't come back.

That attitude has hurt democrats nation-wide, and I object to YOU deciding what's important to ME. If you don't like the way a thread looks, DON'T READ IT.

Terrible. Judgmental and terrible.

[Ramsey]

66. Define elitist

I see that accusation bandied about here frequently, but I don't see it. Why are a few simple rules elitist? We all live our lives according to rules, this isn't an anarchy after all. The DU admins have said they will not be locking threads for grammatical errors, or failure to construct actual full sentences, as long as someone has observed the spirit of the rules, which is to have a more meaningful level of discussion. These are guidelines, and I am sure they will not go overboard or be overly picky about them. Therefore inability to produce correct grammar or lack of education will not get you locked.

What is so elitist about asking for people to put some thought into their posts, on this one forum, in order to promote more meaningful discussion? I think you are selling people short if you think there are so many incapable of doing so.

[TennesseeWalker]

70. It's not anarchy, it's a discussin forum.

And sorry, guys. Everybody here always asks "why does the South hate us"? We don't hate you, and in a lot of cases (such as me) I AM you. And I believe many more are capable of doing it, but they need PRACTICE.

Too many rules are unnatural. People are turned off by tightly knit rules, and elitists always want to "improve" us by setting out new, well-intentioned RULES that cause people to run in the other direction instead. Just look at how people rebel when they're growing up...they're learning...and people learn all their lives if they're not turned off by TOO MANY barriers.

[Ramsey]

78. And then they grow up

And learn to live in the real world. How many are too many rules? We all live with hundreds, possibly thousands, of rules every day of our lives. Most of us seem to deal. DU GD has suggested 5 rules.

I disagree with your premise that people find rules unnatural. We are one of the most self-regimented species on the planet. We create rules for the smallest of circumstances. We have established elaborate social orders. That's all of us human beings, not just the "elitists". Young people rebel in order to test the limits of that social order and then most return to its fold. Those that don't are mostly marginalized or incarcerated.

By the way, I am a Kentuckian, so let's not be "us" and "them", OK? And this is a good discussion.

[TennesseeWalker]

82. Yes, I think it's a good discussion too!

Plus, I get the added benefit of seeing the Vols beat the Wildcats every year! And what's this deal about the UT President, Shumaker? He was the president of Louisville, and now we seem to have a scandal 24/7 at UT! LOL

[fishnfla]

79. If this is the best thread you've ever had

Then the new rules are working for you. On many levels I might add. Dig it?

[TennesseeWalker]

83. LOL

Yes, isn't it cool? :)

[jmm]

61. Yeah, what you said!

I would love to see more people start threads in other forums. Then there might not be a need to experiment with new temporary rules.

edited for clarity

[inthecorneroverhere]

64. Amen!

Let's all 'do our part' to contribute to a useful discussion!

[TennesseeWalker]

65. And ;this discussion was VERY useful

for ME.

[NashVegas]

81. And I'm on the Fence About the Rules

People who try to start discussions by lobbing a bomb will simply have to put a little more thought into the matter.

It doesn't do anything where people who hijack threads and turn them into screaming matches are concerned.

Ah, well.

[TennesseeWalker]

85. Regardless, I've enjoyed the discussion.

:) I love DU.

[sistersofmercy]

87. locked out in the Dubya takes a vacation

It was actually getting pretty funny. Oh well

[newyawker99]

91. I am locking this thread.

Questions about Democratic Underground policies belong in the "Ask the Administrators" forum. All discussion topics relating to Democratic Underground policies, procedures, enforcement, etc., which are posted outside of the "Ask the Administrators" forum will be locked or deleted.


NYer99
DU Moderator