Did Lieberman cost Gore NH?

[ButterflyBlood]

drive away enough voters in this libertarian leaning state who didn't want him fucking around with their video games and music?

worst VP pick ever. He should've went with Graham (it would've been much harder to steal FL), Shaheen (would've got NH easily) or a non neocon Jew like Wellstone or Feingold, who would've probably cut down on the Nader vote as well.

[wellstone_democrat]

1. I was there in November 2000

The last minute push by Nader in the state brought HOARDS of UNH students out to the polls where same day registration is available. Usually waiting at most 30 minutes to vote, that day I waited over 2 hours in line.
I don't recall the numbers but Strafford County should still be up somewhere---it made a huge difference in the southern part of the state. Working on the campaign in NH that year, Lieberman wasn't the problem0---and, btw, NH'ites are more "local control" (read: the Buchanan 96 primary victory where he pushed that single issue constantly while there was a school tax distribution issue aflame that would redistribute property taxes to other districts) than purely "libertarian". Never, ever heard anyone go on about Lieberman's stand on "censorship" or the like. Frankly, he was more of a neutral in the campaign.

I'm sure others will have other opinions. I'll simply say that I do "politics" for a living and worked that campaign in my native region of the country---i.e., I know the polls, the temper of the moment, and my neighbors.

PS this is not a "blame Nader" post, I'm simply recounting what I know from my work and from being there that season and that day at the polls in NH

[billbuckhead]

3. Your man Wellstone

They killed him.

[jiacinto]

7. Another Wellstone Conspiracy theory

with little to no proof to support it.

[billbuckhead]

15. If Democrats won't defend their own, why be one?

One is happenstance. Two is coincidence. THREE IS WAR! What are 4,5,6, infinty? Tests of courage? Daschle, Leahy and Rather were anthraxed, we did nothing. Wellstones plane fell out of the air ONE day before his name would stay on the ballot no matter what and we did nothing. And no one was on the grassy knoll. And Nixon didn't throw a monkey wrench into the Paris peace talks. Mainstream Democrats continue to give REPUBLICANS-BFEE-CIA-military industrial complex-etc the benefit of the doubt about black ops-assasination-psychops operations-phantom WMD's-etc even as reports about the shah, tonkin gulf, operation northwoods, the kennedy assassination, the bay of pigs, Iran-contra, the assassination of Allende,and on and on, ad nauseum, even as more history is revealed that shows that we have been lied to and lied to and lied to. We keep giving RepuKKKes the benefit of the doubt?

[jiacinto]

17. I am not going to look like a lunatic

Screaming "the GOP/Bush killed Wellstone" without any evidence beyond your partisan suspicion makes you look less than credible. I don't buy those arguments.

Is it possible that Wellstone succumbed to foul play? Yes I think it is a possibility, but is there any proof to this date of any intentional malfeasance? No, not that I can see.

Until I see something more than just "the GOP/Bush killed Wellstone" I will think that his death was nothing more than an unfortunate accident.

As for the Anthrax attacks on Daschle and Leahy I do think they should have been investigated more.

[nixonwasbetterthanW]

2. nonsense

Florida wouldn't have been close without Lieberman on the ballot. The Jews came out in droves in the Sunshine State to counter the Elianistas. With the possible exception of New Hampshire, Lieberman's presence on the ticket pretty much put the Northeast, Illinois and the West Coast out of play for Bush, allowing the Dems room to maneuver in the Midwest battleground states. Graham on the ballot would have done nothing to attract Jews outside Florida. Yes, maybe Lieberman lost Gore the South. But it wasn't exactly fertile territory to begin with. And Graham would have been a much tougher sell in the industrial urban centers of the big states.

[ButterflyBlood]

4. as I pointed out though, there are better Jews he could've picked

and you can't say the censorship angle never was a downside for Lieberman. It's kind of like "Gore's going to take my guns away", instead it was "Lieberman's going to take my violent video games and obscene CDs away". If I could've voted then it would've been tough voting for Gore because of him and because of that angle.

[KoKo]

6. The rumor here in NC was that Edwards was his first pick........

I believe the rumor because he was at Edwards beach house here just before he announced.

His advisors might have though an all Southern ticket wouldn't be good........so Lieberman was chosen. Who knows maybe Gore chose him.......but he and Edwards were supposedly good friends. Maybe they still are.

[jiacinto]

8. Lieberman is considered Satan here

So people have this primative need to attack him.

[billbuckhead]

10. There's more Yankees in Florida than some of those Midwest battleground...

states. Graham would have done fine up north. I think a lot of Southern Dems would do good up north. Truman-Johnson-Carter-Clinton-Gore. Zell Miller or John Breux would easily win in Pennsylvania, but Pennsylvania has scum of the earth Senators associated with the Warren Comission and Opus Dei and produced an abomination like Tom Ridge. Even the older wiser George Wallace looks like a hero in a wheelchair compared to Santorum. Yet the ultimate Pa republican Bill Scranton looks like Jesus compared to the BFEE.

[ButterflyBlood]

12. Aside from that those people up north voted for Gore, not Lieberman

they didn't vote him just because Lieberman was on the ticket, people up north will vote for any Dem no matter where they're from. If it was a southern Dem vs. northern Repuke, the Dem would still win the north and Repuke would still win the south. Lieberman didn't help Gore in any state except Florida where Graham would've helped more. Saying that we couldn't carry Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Massachussets, ect. without Lieberman is purely ludicrous.

[dansolo]

24. I don't believe it

Lieberman more likely drove away voters in Florida. I just don't believe that anyone who would conceivably be swayed by Lieberman's presence on the ticket wouldn't have been voting for Gore anyway.

[jiacinto]

5. That's a stretching it

And that's the most absurd thing I've heard here in a while about Lieberman. Okay you've made it clear that you don't like Lieberman. So have most other DUers. I just don't understand the need to keep on doing it. It's as bad as the right wing obsession with Clinton.

[ButterflyBlood]

9. what's so absurd about it?

lots of people thought Gore was going to take their guns away when he never made any actions that even suggested such a thing, so why didn't anyone think Lieberman was going to take their video games and music CDs away?

[jiacinto]

13. Please

That's so baseless. I doubt that most people go into the voting booth worrying about "parental advisory" stickers on their CDs. And actually parents want those stickers. The only ones who don't are high school and college students.

[ButterflyBlood]

14. college students can vote

so can young adults, and they like such games and music. Did Lieberman say he was going to ban all violent video games and obscene music? No. But did Gore say he was going to ban all guns?

[jiacinto]

16. That, I honestly don't know

nt

[FoxNewsIsTheDevil]

11. Gore deserved to lose for picking him.

[maxanne]

18. people up here

didn't give 2 shits about Lieberman. They "knew" Al Gore was going to take their guns away. I spoke with plenty of northern rednecks, who weren't concerned about anything except for that. They couldn't tell you how they knew Al wanted to take away their guns - just that it was so. :eyes:

[Yentatelaventa]

19. My guess would be it was Gore gun registration

Without a doubt.

[Lost_Stash_Of_Dubya]

20. I think he lost MANY states because of Lieberman

Definitely lost TN because of Lieberman.

I do not come from the south, but I've visited there and have many friend from the South. Bigotry in all forms is commonplace in most southern states, and yes that includes anti-semitism. There are just too many southerners who can't bear the thought of a President who doesn't believe in Jesus, son of God. Such anti-Semites exist everywhere of course, but their numbers are greatest in the south.

I don't know why nobody talks about this, either here or in the corporate media, but as I see it plain old-fashioned Jew-hating cost Gore at least TN and FL, and maybe other states as well. As democrats, we've got to face the reality of bigotry. On the face of it, running minorities for key political positions is a way to increase diversity. But all too often, the reality is that this strategy decreases diversity, because the minority candidate is seen as a threat by bigots and this mobilizes a vast opposition turnout.

What instead of JFK, a Catholic, the democrats had decided to take a bigger bite out of racism in 1960 and had run a black candidate? Nixon would have won and the civil rights gains of the 60s would never have happened. Sometimes a white christian is the best candidate to run if you want to increase diversity and minority rights.

Today the political landscape hasn't changed much. Southerners are still so bigoted that it is difficult to conceive of a black or a woman presidential or VP candidate winning ANY states. Consider that the democrats are even scared to run a WASP from the northeast for fear of losing the south, because southerners are bigoted even against northeastern democrats with no accents (or even worse, a city accent). Is it any wonder that a Jewish candidate would face fierce resistance in the south?

I'm saying it would have been better for diversity if Gore had run a white christian male as a VP, and once president he could have appointed Jews and minorities of all sorts to his cabinet and other high-level executive branch positions. This would acclimate Americans to their presence, prove that they can do their jobs as brilliantly or as pathetically as any southern white boy, and elicit less fear among all the bigots in America.

The Democrats made this mistake twice, first with Mondale, then with Gore. The efforts were nobel, but the outcomes totally useless. JFK and LBJ did more for civil rights than Mondal, Ferraro, Gore, and Lieberman all combined.

I'll add that it didn't help that Lieberman preached his God and religion like a practicing rabbi. When JFK ran as the first Catholic pres candidate, he had the good sense to talk about issues instead of religion, and even had to explicitly state that he would keep his religious views separate from his governing, and wouldn't take orders from the vatican. He was modest about his "minority" religious status.

I'm going to get the flame retardant suit now.....but consider how many bigots there are in America before hammering my post...

[oasis]

21. Joe was chosen to cleanse the Gore ticket of the stench of Clinton.

That's all. He was supposed to be the Democrats' moral point man.

[Lost_Stash_Of_Dubya]

23. That shows how out of touch with America Gore is

It's like he really doesn't get it. Bigotry is rampant, it's everywhere. As a Jew, Lieberman doesn't hold ANY moral authority with the very group that was most offended by Clinton's indescretions: Southern Christians.

That's the ugly truth.

What's really sad is that I don't think most people would care about Clinton's Ovulation office BJ when voting for Gore. If Clinton had been able to run again, he probably would have won. Bad strategy on Gore's part.

[oasis]

25. I believe Lieberman was thrust onto the ticket by the DLC.

They possibly misread the Southern Christian demographic you refer to.

Welcome to DU :hi:

[jagguy]

22. Joe is a nice person

but a terrible choice for VP. He brought nothing to the ticket. Certainly a notworthy contributing factor behind the loss.