Lock More Threads---Lose More Posters

[Starpass]

I'm appalled at what I'm seeing this a.m. as I come to DU to find news and enter discussions. There are more locks displayed on this front page then on the front gates of Camp X-Ray!! I've been here since the beginning of the DU and been through "old server" and "new server". There is something moderators are not understanding at all. DU might have had a nifty, great thread started last night where people discussed a topic; BUT there are new people who come on in the morning or later in the afternoon, etc. We have always had these cycles. Now we tune in, see an interesting topic and see that it is locked and told to go read the rules. That tells us NOTHING!! Are we to guess that somewhere deep in the bowels of DU there is a thread kinda somewhat like the one we are reading and we should spend perhaps the next hour trying to see if we can find a title that kinda somewhat sounds like it might be "the one"??? It's easier just to hit the big X at the top of the page and move on. This is not fostering discussion, ideas or enticing people to join DU. In fact, if I were new here I would assume that threads are being locked because of some arbitrary censorship. (i.e., there was a thread pertaining to Congressman Ford that was locked with the usual message---if I were new I might assume that we are forbidden to talk about black congressmen). We handled "dupes" before. A "dupe" is something written within minutes of another posting; not something posted that happened to be posted 36 hours ago!!! Our discussions, unfortunately, are not "picking up steam" with these new rules; but dying on the vine.

[Democat]

1. It has happened to me numerous times

None of my threads have been locked, but I have gone to reply several times and had those threads locked.

What a waste of energy for the posters and the mods.

Dump the new rules, save DU! :)

[rhino91063]

2. The lock feature is used way to oftern

IMHO, it seems instead of the rules serving the members, the members are serving the rules.

[OKNancy]

3. You will get used to it

I bet this was done because two posters in particular were cluttering the board with stupid one line posts..most often in the form of a question.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

5. If That's True, Then It's a Flamethrower Against Flies

The solution there is to warn the individual spammers, not institute heavy-handed new rules, IMO.

DTH

[FlashHarry]

4. LBN, I understand. GD, however...

...should be a free political forum. I do agree, however, that personal attacks should be stopped. But, the 5-sentence rule is absolutely arbitrary and nonsensical.

On edit, if rule was in response to 2-word posts like: Malawi. Discuss, I understand. But since those are rare, why not just lock them as the occur?

[OrdinaryTa]

23. Introducing a Discussion

The new temporary rules require thread originators to be able to develop a whole paragraph of at least five related sentences. That is not an arbitrary requirement - it simply means that if you start a thread, you have to be able to write. I don't find it nonsensical. Skinner is saying that the originator is responsible for setting the tone of the entire thread. Sounds reasonable to me!

[disgruntella]

6. geez, folks, it's temporary

I'm new here (joined Sunday), but after taking the time to read the announcement, it sounds like this is a temporary experiment, and of course there will be some discomfort along the way. So I for one am not turned off.

I don't know if I'd want the current guidelines to be permanent, but I'm willing to test them out. Maybe you would be happier if you just stayed away from DU until the experiment is over. The world won't end if you can't post in a forum for 2 more days.

[chimpymustgo]

7. I like the new rule. It compells more thoughtful posting.

eom

[PsychoDad]

9. I remember when I used to visit SF. I would...

Or more rambling ones :D

[jagguy]

21. could this be the issue ?

while some posts are thoughtful, well considered and civil there are many others of a less thought out tone. The whole point of discussion if the exchange of ideas not shouting matches. If you like shoutint matches then go on the Springer show. If you can't make a point thoughtfully among your friends here at DU how do you ever expect to do so among your foes ?

[Starpass]

8. But how do they know if the experiment is working or not if people

don't give input???? It's not working and it's frustrating to go into a post and get ready to discuss things and bingo, it's locked. I now pause every time I see a new post and say "do I want to even bother reading it---maybe I'll wait to see if it ends up with a lock slapped on it first". Censorship never has encouraged the free flow of ideas. You have a way to censorship at your fingertips. If you don't like a post, don't read it or reply to it.

[disgruntella]

10. i have no problem with you giving input on the rules

I didn't mean to give that impression. Your feedback should be heard, I just don't think that free expression at DU is doomed by these rules. That's my input.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

15. Oops

Responded to the wrong reply.

DTH

[Atlant]

12. Don't expect to "Give input"

I started a poll an hour or so ago in the "Ask the Administrators"
forum. Yes, it was slanted against the rules, but not THAT
much, and it was humorous and good-natured to boot.

IT got the boot in about 45 minutes. Vaporized. Gone down the
DU memory hole quicker than you can say "Winston Smith".

And they'll lock this note as well.

Atlant

[DoveTurnedHawk]

16. The Locking (Or Far Worse, Removal) of Polls Is Ridiculous

The inability of members to express their opinions about the website via polls is merely Admin's way of suppressing dissent and delegitimizing opposition to their rule by fiat, IMO.

Obviously, no reasonable person disagrees with their right and ability to rule by fiat. Nevertheless, squashing disagreement like this is rather short-sighted and counter-productive, IMO.

DTH

[arwalden]

41. Oh My Gay Stars!

I kind of figured that I would never agree with anything you had to say. --- Until now.

-- Allen

[DoveTurnedHawk]

43. Hey, If the Magistrate Likes You

I figure you can't be all bad. :D

Peace, Allen. Thanks for the olive branch.

DTH, Who Has Always Loved the Phrase, "Oh My Gay Stars!"

[soleft]

11. Maybe instead of locking

Mods could move some threads into the other forums when the treads are really specific to a subject matter - and encourage people to post threads in other forums.

So many of the observations about media whores and different pundit appearanced could be posted in media - gay lesbian - civil rights - campaigns, politics, etc.

[bicentennial_baby]

13. Agreed

I often wonder why they don't put more threads in their appropriate forums, which could increase traffic in those forums which are'nt very high volume at this point. It would cut down on GD traffic quite a bit, I would think.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

18. The Problem Is

People just don't read those forums, for the most part. It's all LBN, GD, Lounge. Even the Editorials forum gets short shrift.

DTH

[arwalden]

42. You Hit The Nail On The Head...

... and how long have you been watching me as I peruse the forums on DU??? Where's the hidden camera?

That is the exact order and the exact forurms that I hit when I first come to DU.


-- Allen

[DoveTurnedHawk]

51. LOL!

We're kindred spirits, Allen. :-)

DTH

[The_Bearded_Liberal]

14. Agreed!

I agree.
I was once a regular poster to the "Editorials and Other Articles" forum here at DU but have not posted there since a post I made was "locked" because, and get this, the exact same article was posted in "General Discussion".
Of course, why did I not think of posting a "news article" in General Discussion....after all, surely that's the logical place for it, and NOT the "Editorials and Other Articles" forum.

So what, now we not only have to pore though pages and pages of the forum we believe is the relevant one to post say a "news article" in but we also have to look through every other forum as well.

I wish the mods at DU would relax some and let the discussion flow, unimpeded by locked threads.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

19. In Defense of the Mods

The policy on this has always been a little unclear. But I certainly agree, an Editorial properly placed in the Editorials forum should probably take precedence. :-)

I love Editorials, personally. I almost never post there, but I love scanning the better articles.

DTH

[JNelson6563]

17. I am glad of it

I am sick and tired of seeing thoughtless one-liner posts cluttering up the board. Especially ones that are merely continuations of other discussions already going on.

Damn those trolls! They wouldn't listne so now we do this. Hopefully they will leave and we can go back to normal soon. Until then I am glad they're doing this.

Julie

[NewYorkerfromMass]

26. Well, nobody is participating in GD much this AM

at least by my reckoning. SO while I agree some quality is needed, seems the quantity (volume) is down too.

[Brian Sweat]

20. Start with this one

It violates GD rules and should be in one of the admin folders.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

25. Just Curious

How does this thread violate GD forum guidelines?

:shrug:

DTH

[synthia]

37. it's in the rules

THE ADMINISTRATORS AND YOU

If you have any questions about the rules of this message board, please contact the website administrators by sending an email to [e-mail], or by posting in the "Ask the Administrators" forum. The administrators of this website are Skinner, EarlG, and Elad.

Questions about Democratic Underground policies belong in the "Ask the Administrators" forum. All discussion topics relating to Democratic Underground policies, procedures, enforcement, etc., which are posted outside of the "Ask the Administrators" forum will be locked or deleted.

Occasionally, the administrators of this website will make decisions that are not popular. That is life. We have given up trying to make everyone happy, because it is simply not possible.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

44. Oh, THAT

Sorry, I thought the previous poster was talking about the new GD Forum rules.

As I have indicated elsewhere in this thread, the older "Ask the Admin" rule is in many ways counter-productive and short-sighted, IMO.

DTH

[ibegurpard]

22. I'm not sure I like them much either.

And I agree that it was pretty annoying to see threads I took an interest in locked because of arbitrary rule enforcement. I don't know...maybe that won't happen so much as people get used to it. The complaints about "quality" of posting bother me...who decides what quality is? If no one finds it interesting then it will drop.
I DO like the rule about making the subject line relate to the post, however, and I hope it remains permanent.

[Atlant]

24. Yeah, after all, the pot's only 1 degree warmer now...

> I don't know...maybe that won't happen so much as people get used to it.

Yeah, after all, the pot's only 1 degree warmer now, certainly not
yet hot enough to hurt us frogs...

Do you think this is the first time the rules have been "ratcheted
down" here? Old timers will remember:

• LBN rules
  
  
• "Don't criticise nominated Democratic candidates"
  
  
• I/P rules
  
  
• Gun ghetto rules
  
  
• More LBN rules
  
  
• "Don't use the "b**ch" word".
  
  
• "Don't criticise religion too much"

And now,

• GD Rules
  
  

A'yup, the pot's still nice and cosy...

Atlant

[ibegurpard]

34. Oh, make no mistake

I'm not too happy about it except for the relevancy rule.

[synthia]

38. the threads weren't locked because of the

rules. they were locked because the poster didn't follow the rules.

a subtle difference but important none the less.

[Gman]

27. It's a good rule

discussion on GD has been crappy to a down right waste of time even clicking on the thread lately.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

28. I posted a thread this AM

3 responses besides mine. People don't want quality I'm afraid.

[THUNDER HANDS]

29. hey

when you start paying for the site and it's upkeep, you can make the rules.

:)

[molly]

30. Amen!!!

[DoveTurnedHawk]

33. No One's Saying Skinner Can't Make the Rules

But clamping down on discussion about the rules, or even just proposed or temporary rules, seems a bit heavy-handed, no?

DTH

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[protect freedom impeach bush now]

32. the new rules suck.

If the intent was to improve discussions,
then the new rules seem to do the opposite.

A free flow of info sometimes mean you have to wade thru
a lot of crappy posts and just plain useless posts.

But sometimes that is exactly why people read & post at DU.

BEFORE -- you just never knew WHAT was going to be posted in DU.
AND that was what made DU GD forum worth while,

SURE some days you log on and look/scan at GD forum
topics and just shake your head...and move on.
But many long time posters have faded away....maybe new job
..new careers..and no more time...maybe DU burnout....
..maybe complete digust with spineless DEMs......

.....I REALLY LIKE BARTCOP ? why ?

because bartcop says what he means and it you dont like it
TOUGH ! Many posters at DU used to be like mini-bartcops,
but sensitive DU mods chased them away.

'cant let the masses get toooo angry at spineless DEMs
'cant let the masses get toooo angry at the DLC corp
whores.

the free flow of info should be just that.

UNLESS its completely vulgar, then justPM me :-)
A lot of crappy GD titles belong in The Lounge.

Posting news in GD should never be LOCKED
News and commentary should NOT require posting what one
thinks or doent think about a news item.

The posting of news that is more than 12 hours 'old'
needs a place at DU to be freely postedwithout comment.

With this new BS rules in GD, any news needs some
commentary added by the poster.

WHAT THE FUCK FOR ? What comment is one to add when you post
a news item that is about troops deaths ?

you do not need to add any comments to 'enhance' discussion.

SOME news items are posted to keep DUers INFORMED,
especially when the main news whores corporations will not
report it. SOme new items posted do not require ANY
further discussion or comment. The news post is in itself
ALL the should be 'required' at DU.

Just looking at DU GD forum today....what do you see ?
a lot of completely BS thread titles that one wouldnt
waste any time on, YET some ARE very interesting.

Interesting to some DUers, yet not interesting to other DUers.

...rules....regulations.....cant use CAPITAL LETTERS....
cant use !!!!!###@!!!!!!!!***!!!!!!!.......


geez next the mods will be telling us how and when to take a crap.


My bet is nearly 95% of DUers come to GD in part to find
news article not in main stream news sources.

[arwalden]

35. If It's REALLY A Garbage-Post, then it will SINK on its own...

... the new rules suck.

-- Allen

[Q]

36. The new rules are great...

...because it keeps the knuckledraggers from starting too many threads without at least trying to think before typing.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

40. Anyone can start their own web forum. It's no big deal.

Anyone can start their own web forum. It's no big deal. Anyone who doesn't like this one should just start their own. I run a discussion board of my own. It has rules. The rules are in place partly to make the discussion better, partly for my convenience. Sometimes users don't like the rules. They are welcome to not use my forum.

I like the new rules. Is it really so hard to write 5 sentences and have your title make sense?

[IndianaGreen]

52. Do the users of your forum contribute money to the forum?

That sort of changes things a bit, doesn't it?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

39. I would have preferred that rather than locking the threads

that they gave posters an opportunity to comply rather than REPOST with a locked thread. I think it would have fostered more harmony to catch the threads and ask poster to modify them tofit the rules and would not have resulted in the animosity.

Last night Captain Midnight posted a great activism post and Iquickly responded and made him aware of the new rules so that his thread would not be locked.

I'm not against the rules. I don't really have a problem with them. I just think locking people's threads for a minor non-compliance when they can request to ADD TWO SENTENCES or edit a swear word or COMPLAY with the rules leaves people invalidated and less willing to repost, contribute and participate.

So...my take...it's not the rules but the manner in which they were enforced without a second chance to comply that has resulted in a bit of disharmony.

[Speed8098]

45. I'm certainly glad it's temporary

I think the mods are trying to make us feel like we are in chimpys world where we'd better watch what we say.

I have been here a couple of years and donated a couple of times and I'm extremely disappointed in this "Experiment". It's disgusting that the mods feel the need to shut down threads that they don't like.
Censorship sucks, no matter what form it takes.

Lose the censorship before we start losing members.

This experiment is a failure:puke:

on edit:fixed typo

[DoveTurnedHawk]

50. Again, Please Don't Blame the Mods

Mods only enforce rules and policies. There are 20-25 of them each term.

Admins (Skinner, EarlG, Elad) are the ones who actually devise the rules and policies. They're almost certainly the ones who developed and approved the most recent GD rules. They're the ones who receive your donations, and they're the ones with final say on all aspects of this website.

Just a friendly clarification.

DTH

[Ramsey]

46. Um, there's a big explanation at the top of the page

:shrug:

[LWolf]

47. I think of it as a learning curve.

Those who don't want their threads locked will learn to initiate them according to the required format.

If you find a thread that you are interested in locked, you can read it and start a new thread to offer your take...expressed in the temporarily required format.

[Benevolent_Rabbit]

49. Not to trivialize your response, because in a sense you are correct

It is always a learning curve, but to learn something that you believe to be fundamentally wrong, and then believe it's okay after awhile, seems somehow Bushian to me.

I know I'm getting carried away - don't take it personal. I can't even eat carrots anymore without wondering whose garden they came from.

[Benevolent_Rabbit]

48. I have to agree with the thread poster

I've given it some thought, and the results are just not worth the use of this censorship. I can't stand seeing all the padlocks on all those threads. Threads that are potentially thought provoking for discussion purposes. To have an arbitrary 5 sentence rule - otherwise you're locked up - seems unlike what one would expect from DU. Sometimes thoughts can be compressed into two sentences worthy of discussion.
I was told by an English teacher in 10th grade that my writings were too "terse." I still made A's - because the points were made. I didn't need a lot of frilly excess just to fill in space.

I vote against this rule.