The Ethics of Ah-nold Bashing

[foreigncorrespondent]

Now that Arnold Schwarzenegger is running for governor of California, is it ethical to dredge up his sordid past and expose it to intense scrutiny?

Or am I attempting character assassin on a Republican gubernatorial candidate whose unfounded popularity has nearly dashed my last ounce of faith in the democratic process?

Eh, call it what you like. But if you ever decide to run for elected office The George W. Bush Way (intelligence, ability and personal integrity not required, as long as you're a willing puppet of the GOP), make sure your sordid past isn't plastered all over the Internet, because if you're a danger to democracy, I'm going use it against you -- regardless of whether you're a Republican, a Democrat, or a Green.

What's that, you say? Isn't dishing the dirt beneath us? Intelligent, thoughtful liberals cannot stoop to the low-down, cheap shots, and dirty tricks of the right-wing... can we?

Yeah, we can. We may not like it, but it's the only choice we've got left.

Is it low-down, cheap, and dirty. And it makes me feel low-down, cheap, and dirty. (In other words, like a Republican.)

But our insistence on "rising above" false, moralistic finger-pointing while the Repugs keep pulling the rug out from under us is exactly why they have such a stranglehold on this country today.

The problem with liberals is that we're too idealistic. Since this country was stolen two and a half years ago, we've continued to fool ourselves into believing that if we just present the issues logically, fairly, and clearly, people will naturally come to reasoned conclusions.

Well? Has it worked?

What has two and a half years of rolling over and capitulating gotten us?

I think even the pink tu-tu Dems are beginning to realize the truth. (I'm talking about the Daschles, the Gephardts -- everyone of their spineless ilk who, in an effort to please everybody and avoid rocking the boat, just end up selling out.)

Full article: http://blogs.salon.com/0002551/2003/08/09.html#a359

I found this in my all time favorite blog today, and thought it is a good thing to post here, at this time.

With all the anti Arnold threads popping up, and the one that is happening right here in GD at this time about someone getting sick of the anti Arnold threads, I thought this one is brilliant. It shows us a perfectly good reason why we should be bashing Arnold. He doesn't deserve to govern CA or any other part of the USA. And this article says it in a way I never could.

So instead of us coming down on each other on the ethics of if we should or not, I think we need to join together and work to keep a democrat in office in CA, so the state doesn't fall into the hands of the repukes.

[Wonk]

1. Nice article. Do you like my campaign poster for Arnie?

[foreigncorrespondent]

2. Wonk...

...I love your Ah-nold campaign picture. It truly speaks volumes about the man.

Well done!

[Ladyhawk]

3. I know something about a GOP nut

that might destroy his political career, but I'm afraid of the repercussions. My family loves him, campaigns from him, but I've finally divorced myself from the disgusting "morality" of the Republican party. I am oh-so-tempted to give the information to whomever runs against him next time. I am so goddamn pissed off.

[Wonder]

15. WHY WAIT

till next time... why not now?

[JackSwift]

32. If you are going to disclose it

and don't want to be destroyed, document it and confirm it from every angle so that it cannot be effectively denied and it will also look like you weren't the original source.

[TankLV]

4. well said

nt

[fishnfla]

5. I personally think there should be nude photos of all pols

That way when someone says they can prove sexual harassment or oval office blow jobs by the defining characteristics of their naughty parts, there will be proof for all to see. At least you know there's no "SS" tattoo on his self.

[IndianaGreen]

6. Keep bashing Arnold, and you will lose California

In case you haven't taken notice, Californians are sick of Davis and your bashing Arnold will not help Bustamante one iota, in fact it will damage his campaign to succeed Davis (Davis has as much a chance of winning the recall as Gary Coleman has of becoming Governor).

After you bash Arnold, who are you going to bash next? Arianna? McClintock? Simon? Coleman? Flynt? Ueberroth? Camejo? John Christopher Burton?

And while you guys are getting your pants wet bashing everyone under the sun, what IS the message that you are going to convey to the voters to convince them to vote for the guy with the "D" after his name?

[fishnfla]

12. I will bash all of them, yes

got any naked photos? pics of them smoking pot?

[IndianaGreen]

17. This is what Lenin referred to as an "infantile disorder"

Bustamante is going to need all the votes you can get. If you guys want to wallow in the muck as Davis has been known to do, then you will lose the governorship and perhaps the state in the 2004 election.

I don't want that to happen anymore than you do.

[fishnfla]

25. You and Lenin misunderstand me

This whole thing is a fucking joke. Call it a "juvenile disorder", whatever you want. Its a laughingstock of democracy. I'm gonna make fun of it. Its my form of disgust.Have you seen the pics of Arnold with the topless girl?

[IndianaGreen]

30. Did you see how young he was?

Do you want us to judge who you are by what you did since puberty?

[Wonk]

34. Everything under 50 is youthful indiscretions? nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

48. The only problem I have with that pic

is the guy in it wasn't me.

[Generic Other]

33. Wait a minute, IG

What makes you think all the Dems won't hedge their bets pairing a "NO" recall vote and a vote for Bustamante? The "NO" vote doesn't mean they love Davis. It means "No" to this underhanded bullshit.

The time for treating these GOP dogs with kid gloves is over. Some of us have been repeatedly chastised for wanting to engage the enemy on their own turf with their weapon of choice. We are all that stands between them and the destruction of our democratic system.

They have the money and that buys influence, lies, and false friends.
We have the sheer will of our convictions and anger. Don't try to blunt the only weapon the left has in abundance.

[IndianaGreen]

43. The best weapon the Left has are our ideas and programs

Our ideas are better than theirs. Our programs to implement ideas are not pie in the sky, spend money we don't have on weapons we don't need while giving tax give aways to the wealthiest segment of the country.

We all know why California is in the mess it is. We know the role played by the Republicans, Dick Cheney, the energy companies, and the legislature played in this mess. We must also recognize that Davis failed to exercise aggressive leadership and did not take the bull by the horn when he had a chance.

We are now have to convince the voters that Cruz Bustamante can succeed were Davis failed, and that he can deliver something more than promises or empty slogans.

I hear what you are saying about engaging "the enemy on their own turf with their weapon of choice," and I fully agree in doing that, but the California recall is neither the place nor the time to do so. We only have a little over two months to get people to get over their anger and their fears, and persuade them that the best choice is Cruz Bustamante.

I will add one more thing, the reason why the Republicans succeeded with their tabloid tactics and smears was because they always had a platform in the media. Democrats don't have such a platform. Democrats don't have a 24/7 cable news shows endlessly repeating the sins of the opposition for all to see. This is why any attempt to emulate the Rovian PR machine will be doomed to failure.

Do we need to attack the rightwing? Absolutely! The question for which there is no answer is how to circumvent their lock on the media? How to break up their monopoly on the information the public gets over the airways?

[dfong63]

44. this recall campaign is not about ideas and programs

if this campaign were about ideas and programs, why would Schwarzenegger be leading in the polls? does anyone know what his ideas and programs are?

it is silly to pretend that this campaign is about ideas, or that there is enough time in the 60 or so days before the election, to sell the public on leftist ideas. this campaign is more about image and personality than ideas. the repubs have had a field day bashing Davis, destroying his image. and so far Arnie has had a free ride as far as his own personality and image. that has to change.

it is completely fair for Davis to bash his rivals as much as they bash him. in fact, IMHO the failure to do so would be fatal. fortunately, there is little chance that Davis and his allies will take your advice.

[geomon]

47. naked pictures:

Might disgust some.

smoking pot?: won't matter to most.

The past crime must be BIG to have an effect.

[foreigncorrespondent]

16. IG it isn't about who are we going to bash next...

...it about the fact that Arnie isn't the man he is cracked up to be. He is a womanizer which in my book makes him a low life. What the article in Doublethinks blog says is, we should bring to the forefront all of Arnies past bad habbits, in order to stop him from being elected.

And she is right with what she says. The man is a Hollywood icon, people are visioning another Reagan. The repukes set the precedence for bringing up peoples sexual habbits, so use it against them for once.

It is about using their own dirty rotten tactics on them for a change.

I don't know the other people running from a bar of soap, apart from of course Coleman and Flynt. I do know Arnold because the man has been in the lime light for many years. I don't want to see him get elected into California, and then sit back and watch my girlfriends state get destroyed like Bush* has destroyed the entire country. And because of those feelings, I will do what ever it is going to take to make people aware of the man Arnold truly is.

[IndianaGreen]

19. "Womanizer"? Have you taken a good look at our own candidates?

Be careful for what you wish for...

[foreigncorrespondent]

24. And that is where I agree with...

...DT, the woman who wrote the artuicle to begin with.

No matter if a person is a repuke, democrat, or green, if they are dirty, then the truth about them needs to come to light. I couldn't agree with that more.

We have lived in the age of dirty politics and corrupt politicians for too long, it is time we the people changed that, for the better. If we don't then we get stuck with more people like Bush*, is that what you want? I can tell you, it certainly isn't what want for the USA, my country, or our world.

[goforit]

7. After what they did to Gore?......We are gonna hit hard!!!!!

:nopity:

[A-Schwarzenegger]

8. Bash bash away but

bashing away will not beat me. The people
love me. Love is not rational. I am a mix
of violence and humor and muscle and smile
and all of these things are melted together
in the peopple's unconscious. They love me
like unconsciousness taffy. How can you bash
that? So bash bash away. I make life simple
and people like life to be simple. Bashing
will only make them love me more. As long as
I can keep not answer any questions about
issues and things etc I will be Governor soon.
So please bash away and have me be ask questions
about my penis and nazis and pot and carrots
because I will laugh it off good natured and
I will not have to be ask questions
I do not like like issues etc etc etc.

[fishnfla]

13. I'm gushing

Was your dad really a Nazi?

[Wonder]

14. if this is Arnold

he is a disruptor --- GET HIM OUT OF HERE.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

18. Those that have

ears two hear ... bash me all the way to
Sacramento.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

21. Every time a reporter ask

me that I will gain a percent in the percentage.
The people will say, He is Arnold, he is not a
Nazi. A man can not be held responsible for the
sin of his father. Not in California.

[fishnfla]

26. Funny, every time you talk

I hear Sgt Schultz. "I know nothink, I know nothink"
Seriously, did you ever see Kurt Waldeims unit while you were kissing his Nazi ass?

[A-Schwarzenegger]

27. "It's the

issues, stoopyd."

[Clete]

9. It won't do any good.

If you can't get one of the victims to drag him through court with some sordid details that can stand the scrutiny of cross-examination like Kobe Bryant is probably looking forward to, it's nothing but tabloid stuff. Also, putting up signs and posters could make you liable for character assassination.

What nails a celebrity on sex is taking it to court. Other than that it's he said, she said, he said. Clinton would have skated free on the rumors if Monica hadn't been dragged before Ken Starr and forced to testify under oath.

[Wonder]

11. A sex scandal only seems to work when it is the Repubs

making the charge... a sex scandal will not hurt Arnold... It might only help him... I say ... brighten up the light on those nazi allegations... sex sells... as does steroids and pectorials...

you are right just criticism and bitching will not take him down... but if the repubs are allowed to get away with taking california the easy way... we can kiss the next presidential election good bye.

[Clete]

22. I don't know where you live but

anyone who lives on the LA Westside/Santa Monica/Malibu area could probably dig up so much dirt on him in court documents, hall of record documents, etc. etc., that are open to the public, that this could keep him out of politics for good. It will take a good detective/reporter with the time and hate to spare as well as a forum to expose him.

After that it would be a matter of interviewing all and anyone who shows up on those documents. Also, another good place to start to get close to Arnie's personals is Gold's Gym in Santa Monica. All the muscle building/stunt men crowd go there. Women do too, well like Chynna. I would do this if I were fifty years younger because I do know where to go, but I can't.

I don't dislike Arnold that much, but I really dislike the fact that he is taking advantage of this circus, instead of putting himself up for a Repuke candidate in the next legitimate election.

[Wonder]

29. but what are you talking

sex dirt... what kind of dirt you looking for... my point is this is moving fast... and sex dirt will not bring him down... the boys will be boys and society seems to prefer it that way... I don't know maybe I am a cynic but he would have to have sodomized children... perhaps that would bring him down... women no one really cares about...

[Clete]

31. My point exactly,

and he knows it. Even sodomizing children won't stick (Michael Jackson, maybe?) until you get hard facts and documentation. This can only be done by dragging him through court, OR, finding court documents where a court action was instigated and maybe settled out of court. One of these won't stick, but a pattern?

[Wonder]

10. Bashing Arnold A Symbol for Efigy

beside the nazi ineuendo's he represents how easy it can be for a celebrity with big bucks to steal a seat and/or be used as a decoy or a pawn by the opposing party... he has become a symoblic efigy you bash Arnold you Bash the Corruption stole election 2000 those that have pretty much finished shredding the U.S. constitution... this is why people bash him... they despise the American Ignorance that allows a circus like this to take place

I say burn him in efigy. He is a fat cat pawn or the bushmob...and try and focus in not on the sex issue ... SEX CHARGES ARE MEANINGLESS IN OUR SOCIETY. try and get him on his nazi affiliations OR poor TONS OF MONEY into the candidate that opposes him and hope that candidate is not catering to the status quo either.... good luck on that.

YES I CHANGE MY POST A BIT... as my opinions ebb and flow with new information and the insight comments of others... here.

[BiggJawn]

20. OK,so no more "Arnold Bashing"....

Then it's a given that there will be NO more questioning of what Dumbya was doing when he should of been learning to fly F-4 jets (instead of those POS F-102's), right?

No questions about what the fuck went on during his tenure at Harken, right?

No qustions about who is the Lone Star beer that gets loaded aboard AF-1 for, right?

Give me a fuckin' BREAK!

I say we hold AHH-nold's toes to the god-damn fire just like we would Chimpy or the TinMan.

"Not Fair" and "Hurts our credibility" my ASS!

Next, you'll be telling me that we're gonna lose those precious mythical "Swing Voters" again...

[sandnsea]

23. WWF Politics

That's where we're at and we better figure out exactly how to play.

[robbedvoter]

28. The WRVC model: throw everything at him and see what sticks

(except we'd use actuall facts, not inventions): harrasment, nazi associations, bad movies, stupidity, steroids, several back and forth on running according to movie offers - EVERYTHING!
As long as they are not lies, I have no problem with doing that.

[LibDemAlways]

35. Look at it this way...

Say an unpopular repuke governor was facing a recall and a totally unqualified brash
Dem movie star with a big ego and a sordid past announced his intention to run. Do you
think Rove and Co. would be sitting around debating the ethics of exposing the guy?
Hell, no. They'd be on every cable show with photographs and lurid stories, burying
the hapless fool in an avalanche of bad publicity until he packed it up and went home
long before the first ballot was cast.

Rove is betting that the Dems won't have the stomach to carry out that kind of character
assassination, and he might be right. However, I don't think Larry Flynt has any reservations
about showing Californians the "real" Arnold. And as a fellow candidate and well-known
merchant of sleaze, he's in a great position to do it.

I'm already looking forward to Arnold's tearful withdrawl for "personal reasons" as the
details come to light.

Californians tend to vote for boring, bland governors -- not guys who show up on porn sites
with their privates hanging out. Arnold should not have let his ego overcome his common sense
this time.

[Clete]

36. Rove would be dragging them

through court. He doesn't deal in tabloid slander. His slander is for real.

[LibDemAlways]

37. Tabloid slander is messy, but it can be effective.

No one needed to drag Gary Hart to court to get him to give up
his presidential ambitions. One well-publicized photo of "Monkey
Business" and he was gone.

[Clete]

38. Gary dared the press and they went after him.

He asked them to follow him around if they thought he was doing anything unethical. So they nailed him. They got a friend of Donna Rice to sell them the Monkey Business pictures, which the Natl.Eng. published. Yeah, if you can get a coordinated effort like this with the "liberal" press today, kudos.

A scandal they can't ignore is what you have to do today. As a matter of fact if you can get these kind of goodies on Bush, Cheney or even Ashcroft, it would be wonderful. Actually, Mr. holy roller, Ashcroft is the guy I would really be looking for weird but potent stuff on.

[oasis]

39. Arnie was trying to be cute telling a Hillary joke a few weeks back.

He said her book "Living History" could be found in the fiction section of the bookstore.

At the time I said to myself :wtf: is he trashing Hillary for?

It's his turn now.

[Clete]

40. Some strange woman who was a former somebody from NOW said the same thing.

I don't know her name because I caught the bit between "women's work" I was doing. She said, from my recollection, that Ann Coulter's book was the truth and Hillary Clinton's was lies and should be in the fiction section of the book store. This was many weeks back and I don't remember the show or who she was, but he must have been watching too.

[oasis]

41. When Arnie went out of his way to bash her, he no doubt had an eye

on the governor's seat. He was throwing something out there to the mean-wing of the GOP.

[Democat]

42. Arnold should be exposed to the right wingers

Regardless of what we personally think of Arnold's actions, and I'm sure many here have no problem with some of them, the right wingers who talk constantly about Clinton's morality must be exposed to Arnold's moral issues.

This is nothing personal against Arnold, but it is required if we ever plan to stop the right wingers from claiming that they are more moral than Democrats.

Arnold's campaign and Republican support is a perfect national issue to expose the hypocrisy of the right wingers who questioned the "morality" of Bill Clinton.

This should be a national issue, not just a local one.

Bush should be exposed for his support of Arnold too.

[IndianaGreen]

49. The rightwingers are supporting McClintock or Simon

Arnold has surrounded himself with people that worked for Pete Wilson, who was a very popular moderate Republican governor.

Rush has bashed Arnold because Arnold is not a conservative!

All I have been trying to say, over the cacophony of DU Arnold bashers, is that if Bustamante were to adopt the same dirty campaign style that Gray Davis was known for (and that the DU Arnold bashers are advocating), then his message will get lost in the noise and he will be tagged as another Davis and lose the election.

Let Cruz Bustamante set the tone for his campaign, with us getting in tune with it. Let the McClintock types be the ones that make assholes out of themselves with their silly Nazi analogies that will turn voters off.

One of the things that my preferred candidate for President keeps saying on the stump is that it is time for Democrats to be Democrats. Those Democrats always beat the Republicans by presenting a better message and record as the party that best represented the interests of the working men and women, and the small farmers. The traditional Democratic message always beat the Republicans. The times in which Democrats lost was always due to being off-message, or being sidetracked by an October surprise: McGovern with the Eagleton affair, Carter with the treasonous Reagan deal with Iran.

It is true that the Democratic Party lost a lot of support when Dems supported desegregation and affirmative action, but those are ethical and moral positions that Democrats should be never be embarrassed to support.

Democrats did lose support from many people for supporting programs that on their face appeared to have good goals, but that in practice were the wrong way to go about dealing with the problems they were trying to address: busing and gun control. The Republicans were successful in demagoguing and exploiting those issues, and the Democrats were too slow, and still are, in recognizing that the real issues were redlining and law enforcement.

Abortion is an issue that divides everyone regarless of political party label.

[dfong63]

45. yes

Now that Arnold Schwarzenegger is running for governor of California, is it ethical to dredge up his sordid past and expose it to intense scrutiny?

since when did the truth somehow become "unethical"?

the man is running for PUBLIC office. let the truth be known, and let the people decide.

[Trajan]

46. FUCK Arnold ....

He is a flashy interloper .... he is a white "Puff Daddy" with all flash and no substance ...

He is the figurehead of what is WRONG with the recall ...

He is a Republican ....

He has PLENTY of skeletons in HIS closet ... dredge them out, and make them dance ....

FUCK Arnold and his party ...