If you had information that could ruin a Republican's political career,

[Ladyhawk]

would you divulge it?

I can't really go into specifics, but I have information (and proof) that could ruin the career of a state legislator who has ambitions on the federal level. I knew him personally when I was a child and believe me, he is a complete and total asshole. You do not want him to succeed in his political career.

I have some problems, though:

1. My family loves him and actively campaigns for him.

If I could, I'd move and leave my family far behind, but I'm on disability and dependent on them. If I act like a nice little religious reich-winger instead of the atheistic left-winger I really am, they toss me bones. Otherwise, I couldn't live on the disability payments. I'd be dead or living in a cardboard box somewhere.

2. Is it right to drag stuff out of the closet to use against someone?

All I know is that I don't want this asshole representing me. You should hear what he really thinks about women, the environment, etc. Barf. I hear what the GOP really thinks when they don't think anyone with different views is listening. :(

3. I'm afraid.

I think this guy is capable of anything. If it was discovered I leaked the information, my head could be on a platter. Also, my family would most likely disown me.

4. Even though this man committed a felony, I'm not sure his constituents would care.

He gets his support from a very right-wing region, so I wonder if the voters would even care about the laws he broke. Also, G.W. has committed numerous felonies and he's the president. Gack. Better the devil you know? Wouldn't the brainless voters in his community just vote in another reich-winger?

What would Brian Boitano do?

[JohnKleeb]

1. I dont know what Boitano would do

but say is this guy a far ranking republican? and if you think you can do it and you have no fear I would.

[Ladyhawk]

4. He could become a far-ranking Republican.

I know he has met with the president with fewer than eight people present. He's part of the problem here in California.

[JohnKleeb]

24. hmmmm

sounds interesting. I think I know who it may be, I wish I could help.

[MercutioATC]

2. In your best estimation, is it trash, or does it effect his abilities as a

legislator? If the latter, let it go. If the former, however, get the message out.

[Maple]

3. Is there any way

you can reveal the information through a third party, like a reporter, so that your name doesn't come into it?

[Ladyhawk]

7. In my personal estimation,

it affects his abilities as a legislator, yes, because it is one of the indicators psychologists use to predict whether or not a child is "at risk" for violent behavior. And what he did (and probably still does) is a felony.

[Walt Starr]

48. If he is committing or has committed felonies, you havfe an obligation

Regardless of any political aspirations, if you know somebody has committed or is committing felonies, you are legally required to report them or you are an accessory.

At least, that's the way I understand things.

[Rocinante]

5. Think of yourself

first with your cicumstances. However a well respected reporter would keep your idendity secret.

[efhmc]

6. Find some gung-ho media people and send them an unsigned

letter stating the facts. If what you say can be verified, then someone will want to run with the story. This has the potential of coming out on its own, anyway.

[aquart]

46. Not a recommended approach.

Unsigned letters go straight to the crank pile. Why would someone waste the time to research their allegations?

[catzies]

8. Are you the only one who knows? Not worth ruining your life.

But if more people than you know, give it some more thought, sleep on it, pray for guidance, then do the right thing.

[BiggJawn]

9. Shout it from the rooftops.

But I undesrstand your concern Nr. 3

you might want to fly in a small plane some day...

But then, you get the info out, they kill you, anyone who isn't a sheep could connect the dots. Doesn't do much for you, but it does even less for them.

[foreigncorrespondent]

10. LH I think if I was you...

...I would contact a major newspaper or media source that you know of, that swings to the left. Talk to them about it, and if they agree to keeping your indentity confidential then tell them everything you know.

If the man is as bad as what you say he is, then he doesn't deserve to be in any sort of power. And if your indentity is safe, then you have nothing to fear.

You are in my thoughts and prayers.

[cherryperry]

14. LH: I am in complete agreement with foreigncorrespondent

:kick: :toast: :kick:

[Fridays Child]

17. Yes. That's the way to do it.

I agree with the above two posts.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

11. To me the most important thing would be what the information was

To me the most important thing would be what the information was. If it was something that the public had a legitimate right to know, I would feel obligated to reveal it. But if it was a private matter that really had no bearing on his public life, but would embarass him, I would feel obligated to keep it private.

[dansolo]

12. If he is a criminal or a hypocrite, then yes

I think you should avoid any allegations if you don't have any solid proof. Also, in cases of hypocrisy that is technically not illegal, you should again only air information that you can prove.

[Dover]

13. I'd quietly accumulate uncontestable information and evidence and

when he is up for election (which will guarantee that he will be receiving greater than usual public and media scrutiny) I'd pass off the info/evidence to someone you trust within the Dem. party or the media, who will protect the source. In fact giving it to more than one person might be a good idea.
I mean, if you're going to do it, do it right so that your efforts achieve something concrete and he can't slip through the noose.
If he's as awful as you say you'd be doing everyone a big favor.

[grasswire]

16. did he blow up frogs?

Or did he abuse children?

[Ladyhawk]

19. He probably blew up frogs and abused children,

but the stuff I can prove is somewhere in between.

I'm reasonably sure he abused both his wife and children, although I can't prove it and never witnessed it.

[aquart]

47. Then you don't have anything.

I'm really sorry, but you don't.

[pansypoo53219]

15. maybe its time your family knew what an asshole

he is. why protect them? BLOOD is THICKER than water right?

[Ladyhawk]

18. Because my family does / did the same kind of things

n/t

[Dover]

20. So you're saying that his crime is abuse within his family?

But you can't prove it? If so, there's not much you can do, I'm afraid...unless those he is abusing come forward or someone gets a doctor's report or witnesses hospitalization, etc.

Awful to have info like that and have to sit on it, regardless of who it is.
Sounds like you'd have to make a decision to get openly involved and take the heat if you wanted to do something about it. Even then, if the victims of the abuse don't press charges or corroborate your story it might come back on you in a big way.

[Merlin]

21. There's one rule about information like this. It can make you powerful.

The rule is that the information is far more valuable kept secret than it is divulged. With it, you hold this bastard's future in your hands.

I have a modest proposal.

May I suggest that you hire a very good lawyer. There are people on this board who will find one for you in CA, Im sure. If not, ask me. Though I don't live there, I know who to call.

Anyhow, hire the lawyer. Make sure you pay him at least $100 up front so that you are certifiably in a lawyer-client relationship, and he owes you absolute confidentiality.

Reveal to him that you have this information. If at all possible, don't reveal it to him, but do give him an idea what it is. (Don't trust anybody but yourself with the actual information.) Figure out a way that you can put this information--together with the proof (the proof is critical)--in a package. Have the lawyer prepare a letter from you to him specifying that he is to hold the sealed, unopened package in a safe, under lock and key; that he is to reveal it only under one of two conditions: (1) by your instructions, and (2) if anything happens to you. Tell him you are giving a copy of the letter to a close friend (and actually do so, if possible).

(Also, discuss with him the nature of the "proof" you have. It must be more than heresay. It must be really rock solid, able to stand up in a court of law, or lurid enough to attract certain media attention and be self-convicting. If the proof is not solid enough, stop right here and go no further, because the effort to expose feeble evidence could damage you.)

Next, find two or three people who are your friends, and who are savy, strong, independent people. These can even be people from outside the area. I know of several in CA. (Some are here on this board.) Ask them to accompany you on a visit to this man's office.

Call and make an appointment. Tell them you have something very important to discuss, and that it must remain confidential, for the benefit of the legislator. That should get his attention.

Go to the meeting with your two or three supporters. Tell the man enough in the meeting to convince him that you have the goods on him. (If necessary, have the others leave the room for a moment as you reveal the details to the guy.)

In front of the others, tell him that you have provided the evidence to an attorney and tell him what your instructions to the attorney are. Tell him another copy has been delivered elsewhere for safe keeping if anything should happen to your attorney. (This would be a good idea to do, if possible. But tell him you've done it anyhow.)

Tell him that his career is about to encounter serious reform. Tell him you and he are about to become very close associates. Tell him he is not henceforth to make any significant move without your prior knowledge and approval.

Tell him he is to behave toward your family as though you have become a close advisor and important confidant.

From that point on, you own him.

To pull this off, you need balls of steel. But it sounds like you've got some cajones or you wouldn't have brought this up.

You must treat him always as your subordinate. You must show no hesitation or fear or doubt ever. You must never give him any slack or any freedom. His career will be in your hands. You will control his votes, his public expressions, and his ambition for higher office. Never let him forget that fact.

If you ever begin to waver, remember what he and his kind have done to the things that we care about; the things that are important to our country and our fellow citizens and our children and the world around us. (In Churchill's words, "The Hun is either at your feet or at your throat.")

Do not hesitate to wield the reigns of power that have been delivered into your hands.

Best wishes.

[Elidor]

44. That's extortion

It's illegal.

[Merlin]

65. This just is not true. Extortion requires the threat of an illegal act.

It also requires that you exact a compensation from the victim. Neither of those things applies here.

It would be illegal only if the information were false.

Nor is it blackmail. The mark has a way out of his predicament. He can simply permit the information to be released. Or he can resign.

While this proposal is not pretty, it is realistic. It's hardball, and that's the way the game must be played.

[Bake]

55. Payment not necessary to establish attorney-client relationship

That's why lawyers are loathe to give out free advice at cocktail parties. They can be sued for malpractice over bad advice given out for free. And as long as the attorney and the client are clear that there *is* such a relationship, the confidentiality rule applies, regardless of payment.

Bake, Esq.

[Merlin]

64. Agreed. But payment makes it more certain.

And in an important situation, it's safer.

[chaska]

22. I met a man...

- seemed very credible - said he was part of a group that sold cocaine to dubya. He did time for his crime. Lives in a commune in Va. now.

[sam sarrha]

23. That is the same position they will soon have us all in... like Argentina

in the 70's. El Salvidor... thought police. if you don't have paper work of other hard evidence, you will just be a lying liberal... they will drag you before AnnThrax for drawing and quartering... and a serious tongue lashing....

[phaseolus]

25. My guess --

If the proof you have is specifically for events that took place before, say, he graduated from college - and it's something on the order of torturing cats and/or dogs, I'm kinda doubting it would be the kiss of death.

However if you could come up with proof that he still regularly tortures small animals that would be the end of his career... So the date of your proof would necessarily affect your decision a lot.

[Dover]

26. Sorry Ladyhawk.....can't be much real help without knowing more.

I understand your reasons for keeping your cards close to your chest, but you can understand that it prevents you from receiving good advice too. Kind of a lonely position to be in, eh? Maybe you could PM one of the attorneys here on DU and discuss it privately.
Based on what I've read, I couldn't even say whether it's worthy of contacting a lawyer...
I'm sure you have good judgement....best to you.

[paulsbc]

27. IMO

if you have information about ANY public official that is demonstrative of their inability to serve, then I believe it is your duty to tell that story so that the people understand who and what their representative is.

Republican, Democrat, Green, Independent, Libertarian, makes no difference.

We are supposed to be the party of principle, remember!!

[rasputin1952]

28. Well Ladyhawk, you have received some valuable information...

here, this is a good thing.

Take your time in making any decision, sleep on it, look at it from every feasible facet. If, in a couple of days, you feel you have ironclad proof of a crime, and I mean ironclad, discuss this matter with a TRUSTED friend. It is imperative that hte person you talk to, will never disclose what is said between you.

This will give you the opportunity to have someone else look at the situation as well. They, inturn, may be able to offer some observations you may have looked over.

As far as actual action goes, this will be a difficult call. But I would advise you to go ahead, if there is a possibility that this individual may be in a position of power.

I realize you feel fear, but if the information and proof you have is true, if I were in your shoes, I'd be in the middle of the fray. I have no fear of disclosing the truth about any matter. I would not divulge information indiscreetly, I am not out to demonize anyone, or destroy their lives for any gain I might receive. But if this individual is in public life, and he can control others, there is no reason to withold this information.

As an aside, I am sorry to hear you are disabled, and hope that things will get better for you in the future. Dependence on others can wreak havoc with a life, and I am sure you realize this. I cannot speak for you, of course, but if your family realizes that the truth overrides everything else, they shouldn't be too taken aback by the revelation. Using a third party could be a wise decision however.

While you call yoourself an atheist, I hope you will not be offended if I say my hopes and prayers are with you. I am far from an atheist, and I believe that our consciences are ouor guides. I would not think twice about moving forward with facts, but this is a decision that you must make. Sometimes, an individual must make great sacrifices to ensure that the truth is diseminated.

I wish you good fortune in your future, may your path be smoothed before you. And by all means, keep us informed, there is a great network of support in DU!

[gulliver]

29. Wait until he gets some endorsements and money.

Then divulge away. That way maybe he takes a few more with him.

[Shanty Oilish]

30. Do you want to be famous?

Do you want to be autopsied alive? Do you want your entire life to boil down to---that issue? Are there other witnesses? Is there evidence? Checked the statute of limitations on that felony?

Do you feel you will never have a moment's peace if you do this? Or if you don't?

[TacticalPeek]

31. We still don't know who Deep Throat is...use your imagination. n/t

[LibDemAlways]

32. I have information that could be very

damaging to a current repuke U.S. Senator. When he was running in 2000
I contacted his opponent's campaign and told them in detail what I knew as well as
providing a long list of people who could corroborate it. I also contacted reporters in
the state and told them what I knew. I know of at least two others who have made
similar attempts to get the word out on this guy.


Bottom line - The Dems didn't use it and the reporters ignored it, and the
asshole is sitting in the U.S. senate.

[pearl]

33. Larry Flynt will use if

in a heartbeat. Remember what he did during Clinton impeachment.
Brought down Newt and the next guy. I beleive he's got a website.

[angee_is_mad]

34. depends

If the info dealt with his personal life I probably wouldn't. If it dealt with his political life I would. Now, if it had anything to do with children,rape,violence or intimidation HELL YEAH I would tell. I would do so pridely and deal with the consequences. If he was or is a womanizer or bisexual, I wouldn't.

[leftofthedial]

35. ABSOLUTELY!

do it.

[w4rma]

36. My advice: Give the information out anonymously

PM the information to a trustworthy DUer like BevHarris or WilliamPitt who have contacts in the media.

Then wash your hands of the whole thing. :)

A thread by BevHarris:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=155780

A thread by WilliamPitt:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=151536

[Nomad559]

37. Larry Flint

Send the info you have to Larry Flint. :-)

He's had some experience, for exposing these hypocritical RePUGlican assholes for their crimes.



Edit - Opps, Pearl posted the same suggestion before I did. :-)

I type too slow.

[Gman2]

38. I was tricked.

find a person with contacts. This after confirming that you have good info. Tell this person and show the evidence. Then have this person divulge it without your approval. You become a hostile witness. Your family will forgive it. It also gives you credibility< you are not looking for a makeover and 15 minutes>. Arrange it so that you are protecting your reputation by coming clean.

[newyawker99]

39. Hi Nomad559!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[bearfan454]

40. If you depend on your family

don't cut your own throat.

[John_H]

41. No brainer

We are at war. He is the enemy. Pull the trigger.

[salin]

42. Find a DUer in your area

maybe one who has some connections or at least familiarity with different media (who covers what, who is respectable, who might be sympathetic, who is honorable and would protect the source, etc.)

Maybe in the lounge ask DUers from California to weigh in on to declare where (general region) they live. From that you might be able to start a few conversations.

It sounds like before you do anything, you need to be able to talk with a few people near you (local) who have some familiarity with the local scene; while it sounds like those close to you, right now, and upon whom you rely are not able to give you any assistance with this.

[TankLV]

43. In a heartbeat.

nanosecond

breath

[aquart]

45. If you tell a reporter where to look, will he be able to confirm it?

Because then he won't need to out you.

But if you're the sole and only source, no one will use the info anyway.

I was once an unnamed source. But the story, a tiny paragraph, was written in such a way that the person written about knew immediately where the information originated. He never spoke to me again.

Not necessarily a bad thing.

[Ladyhawk]

49. It isn't just what he did,

it's the scale at which it was done. And what is provable is just the tip of the iceberg.

Geez, it's hard to relate what happened without telling you exactly what happened. Probably the wisest thing to do is just forget it.

[rasputin1952]

52. However LH...

if it was bothering you enough to bring it to our attention; it is important enough to be brought to light.

If this individual has commited a crime, and will gain public trust and responsibility; you must decide if this will derail his intentions. Once people like this get into power, what had happened before, will most likely be small potatoes compared to what may happen.

[Catherine Vincent]

61. You could tell us what he did,

but not reveal his name. I'm dying to know what he did.

[JanMichael]

50. Yes I would.

We're in a War for our survival now, all bets are off.

[Chomskyite]

51. If I had the chance to end the career of a Tom Delay or a Mitch McConnel

. . . I'd do it, but certainly in a SMART way. You can contact reporters, requesting deep background.

Look through your state papers for the names of reporters who have published courageous work in the past. Contact them.

You can also find (it would take a lot of money) and pay a very very good detective if you need hospital records to document it. But you sound like you have that covered.

[Forkboy]

53. Repub,Democrat,Green

I'd use it on any of them.If someone has done something so bad that it could ruin his/her career then they shouldn't have that career in the first place.

Just my 2 cents.

[recidivist]

54. What would you do if he were a Democrat?

If this guy's secret history is truly reprehensible, his party affiliation should not matter. However, if the skeleton in the closet is something you would gladly cover up for a Democrat, you are in trickier territory.

You can expand on the principle. Would you blow the whistle on this guy if he were a teacher or school principal, a doctor, a prominent local businessman, or the chairman of your local United Way?

Civility in politics is important, and routine politics ought not to be treated as the moral equivalent of war. There are plenty of skeletons in plenty of closets on both sides. I myself would not want too close a public examination. My threshold for outing someone is pretty high because what goes around comes around.

Since you haven't given any details, I'll not speculate further. Whatever your decision, just ask yourself if you would want the precedent you set applied consistently, regardless of party.

[Unforgiven]

56. Fry His Ass

These kind of people operate through fear and intimidation, once you have taken away thier power they are meaningless. However you must be reasonably certain that the info you have is concrete and that it would stand up in court if necessary. As for your family........if they would disown you over this than they may have not been worth the bother at any rate, however you may be pleasantly surprised at who stands with you afterwords. I have lost two of my own family who will no longer speak to me because of my political beliefs so this is not uncommon.

[JCMach1]

57. Would he do it to his Dem. opponent if he had the info.?

If your answer is YES, then fry the bastard.

[DEM FAN]

58. OH Yeah. I Would Do It. I Wouldn't Give It A Second Thought Either.

:-)

[knight_of_the_star]

59. Depends on the circumstances

If you can ensure that it will:

1.) Hurt the GOP in a big way

2.) Not blow up in your face in some nasty way

3.) The jerk deserves it

Then I would say all ahead full, but only if the situation fits all three of the above criteria.

[jiacinto]

60. Don't leak it out

You have too much to lose. If this is a very right wing district then I would let it go.

If you weren't dependent on your family and weren't on disability then I would think about this differently. But you are on disability and thus you shouldn't bite the hand that feeds you.

[jody]

62. If I had data that would ruin any politician's career, I would reveal it.

I'm sick and tired of any elected official abusing the voters' trust.

[MaraJade]

63. If you have absolute, concrete proof. . .

then by all means reveal it!! Spare us all of the problems that
could be caused by a hypocritical idiot.

If you have legal proof positivie against this jerk, do a public
service and reveal it.

[ButterflyBlood]

66. be Deep Throat

divulge it anonymously.

[moondust]

67. Republicans are trying their best to ruin Gray Davis' career.

He's paid his dues in politics. He has a Bronze Star for service in Vietnam. Oh, and "Since taking office, Davis has made improving public education his top priority. As a result, the state has its first-ever education accountability programs, and scores on standardized tests have increased four years in a row. Davis also has made record investments in health care and stood strong in protecting California's air and water. He also has revived California's relationship with its largest trading partner, Mexico, and led the state in moving from the seventh to the fifth largest economy in the world. In addition, Davis has signed into law the nation's first laws to reduce greenhouse gases, promote stem cell research, and reform HMOs."

National Governors Association: Gray Davis


Ruin a Republican's political career? Need you ask?

[Ladyhawk]

68. How can I get in touch with William Pitt?

I just listened to his address on C-SPAN and it made me cry. I trust him and trust that he would know whether or not this is just someone's dirty laundry or something the voters should know about.

I'll divulge the information directly to him and let him decide what to do with it. If the evidence is still where I think it is, the allegations are provable.

And yes, this guy is someone to be feared. His political ideas have always lined up very well with those controlling America.

[w4rma]

70. See post #36

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=156129#156474

[moondust]

71. Good idea.

Will can probably help.

Incidentally, I've always felt that somebody should have put an early end to Nixon's political career but they didn't and look what we got. Of course history is awash in rotten characters who should have been stopped before they got anywhere.

[bitchkitty]

69. Don't go public, but

let someone else, who is not as vulnerable as you, do it.