Fixed complaints and scapegoating at DU

[carolinayellowdog]

Hey,

Reading the long religion thread reminded me of a term from Gurdjieff, "fixed complaint," which refers to people who not only complain a lot but always complain about the same thing and seize every opportunity to do so. "Chip on the shoulder" is a vernacular term for this.

Most of the ugliness here at DU comes from a few contributors who not only complain about the same thing over and over but are aggressive to other DUers who somehow provide an opening for the complaint. Some seize every opportunity to express aggression towards religion. Some have a fixed complaint about astrology. One in particular posts only anti-Dean rants as far as I can tell. Another is obsessed exclusively with complaining about anti-theism. In the past we've had posters obsessed with dissing Southerners. Greens and anti-Greens; on and on.

Now, I'm not averse to reading complaints or seeing aggression expressed on occasion. But seeing the same people complaining about the same things over and over tells me they're using DU to scapegoat. Some Southerner, or some Dean supporter, or some anti-theist stepped on their toes at some point, and now they're going to avenge their insult at the expense of 30,000 DUers who don't come here to read endless repetitive complaints.

My suggestion, perhaps doomed to fall on deaf ears, is this: if you feel yourself moved to complain and express aggression here in your posts, before you do, ask yourself a couple of questions. 1. Am I complaining about the same thing over and over, because I have a fixed complaint? 2. Am I scapegoating the particular person I'm attacking, because of a bottomless pit of resentment inside me? If the answer to these questions is yes, do yourself and DU a favor and GIVE IT A REST.

You know who you are :)

CYD

[JustJoe]

1. You ID incorrigibles

& then urge them to corridge. OK.

About a week ago, though new as I am,
I was ready to bail
because of the haters & downers & then
I discovered the wonders of IGNORE.

I see this function disparaged: It cuts
you off from dissenting views, life is
tough so why shouldnt DU be tough, it's good
to exercise your rhetorical muscles against
the opposition, it deprives you of
any thread an ignored person starts, and so on.

Nonsense. I have put about 20 people on ignore
& am happy as a bee in clover. When I see an
Ignored now in a thread it INVARIABLY
is followed by a post titled
"How can you say that!" or "Boy there's
an open mind!" Do I miss new threads started
by such Ignored? Guess. I usually wait till
I see the same name about 3 or 4 times causing
me unnecessary fruitless aggravation, and then
click on the little ZZZZZZZZ icon & they gone
& I do not miss them. Instead of trying to talk
sense into the senseless, do yourself a kindness
& use ... ahhh ... Ignore.

[Le Taz Hot]

3. Only 20 on igore?

You are a patient person. Mine's close to 30. ;-) The one who compared Howard Dean to Joseph Mengele yesterday is ABSOLUTELY a new low.

[JustJoe]

4. OMG!

You just made me go & count. Try 54.
And fwiw half easy are 1000+ers.

[Ardee]

13. Dismiss, certainly, ignore no way....

Ignorance is bliss.....and silencing those with whom you disagree is a form of ignorance,imo. Perhaps you have little tolerance for opinions, perhaps you even make a valid point about certain posters and endless obsessiveness, perhaps.

While I confess that I confine my activity at DU to no more than a few forums (forii?)Ive never entertained the use of the ignore function. Some here annoy the hell out of me, especially those who bash Nader with distorted and misquoted or partially quoted pastes, for that matter anyone who bashes anyone with unsupported opinion.

But free speech is just that and, while I understand that not listening to that speech is also a right I just will not put anyone on ignore when I can just scroll past a particular rant. The mods here do a fine job banning the freeper and sh#t disturbers and anyone else shares at least some political leanings with me so they deserve to be heard....Annoying, sure, exiled never!

[Cronus Protagonist]

22. Ummm they're not being "silenced"

They can still post and all who see them can still be pissed off.

They're being ignored, which is a completely different thing, and relates only to the person who puts them on ignore.

I think it sounds like you could use that feature yourself, based on how much some people piss you off here.

And FWIW, almost all of my ignores are the "heavy hitters" - a lot of them contribute little to any given discussion, and one can almost always figure out what they're saying anyway by the outraged follow-up posters - if one wants to spend the time figuring out the puzzle, which in my case is almost never.

For those of you who are posting in this thread, I'll give you a word of advice. Don't post the names of your ignore list. You'll be scapegoated. So don't do it. It's not worth it.


Click Here For Hard Hitting Buttons — Visit The Cronus Connection

[SoCalDem]

27. I have only ever had one person on ignore, and it was not for their "stand

but it is a VALUABLE tool for the ones of us at DU who "like to argue a point"..

We would not be here if we did not have opinions and cares, BUT...we accomplish NOTHING if we just snipe at each other..

There are threads of 100+ that I would never evn click on..Why?? Because I can tell from the title "who" will be there and even though I am far from clairvoyant, I already know what will be said and who will have said it..

Those threads are of no interest to me, so I just avoid them..

The ones about the candidates and religion are the biggest wastes of time for me.. I will support whomever becomes the candidate, and have no real "love" for any one of them.. No amount of cajoling or kvetching will "make my mind up" for me..

Religion SHOULD BE PERSONAL....and PRIVATE.. No Methodist is going to make a Catholic "see the light" on a message board.. Every faith has its quirks and traumas.. It's ludricrous to imagine that any great religious issue of our time will be solved/explained on a message board..

No doubt, there are people here who are eager to "debate" any issue and love the back and forth.. I come here to learn, and discuss the current events....not to "solve" the world's problems..

The folks in the middle east have been "solving their problems" for at least 2,000 years, and look how far they have come..:eyes:
There are just some things that cannot be solved, no matter how hard people try.. Black is NOT white..Up is NOT down...In is NOT oout.. All sides of any argument have some valid points, but most people are not capable of even SEEING the other side, let alone agreeing to give a little, in order to get a lot :(


Ignore is a great feature for people who cannot leave "those thread" alone.. Remember what your momma always told you...

"Don't pick it, or it will bleed "

[JustJoe]

29. You pretty much nailed it.

Just dont need the aggravation. If being here
is teaching me something, or if I happen to
have something to give here, I have to be
here to get or give it. I wouldnt be here still
if it werent for Ignore. It's pretty simple.
As I said--"unnecessary fruitless aggravation"--
that means somebody who is a *determined a-hole*.
I think 54 is a reasonable number of such for the
hundreds or thousands that post here. I just wish
there was such a function at other boards. Plus,
you know, I have a condition that is aggravated
by undue aggravation, namely, intermittent serenity.
Why beat your head against the wall when you can
click! and the wall is gone and all that remains is
the sweetness and the bluebirds of DU without the
determined 54. There seems to be plenty of conflict
& variety of views & general liveliness around here
for me without the "exiled" 54.

[ParanoidPat]

23. "No man is at all hours wise".....

.....therefore I never use the 'ignore' function. When I do something stupid like click on a post that I know is destined to piss me off, I stop and use my 'instant ignore all' feature integrated into my browsers 'back' button and choose another thread rather than respond. :)

I'd rather be aware of what everyone who lurks here sees than just ignore the disrupters.

I love the smell of burning straw men in the morning! :evilgrin:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

12. I don't have any on my list.

Not claiming superiority or anything, sweetums, just a fact. I have yet to find anyone here that sufficiently makes my teeth itch.

[Clete]

24. Me neither.

I find the ignore button narrows your mind each time you use it.

[Eloriel]

25. Aw, that's not fair

Hell, it's not even true.

I've got 1 person on ignore, tho there have been periods of time when I had several just because they were on "missions" and nothing was going to come of my seeing their rants except high blood pressure on my part. Nothing about narrowing the mind there at all.

The one person I've got on ignore is just someone who rubs me the wrong way with every post I've ever seen from that person. Every single one. We're talking fingernails on a chalkboard here. He's not a bad person, and I'm not wrong. There's just this huge cyber personality conflict. I'd rather not subject myself to it, and that's not narrow-minded either.

Eloriel

[JustJoe]

28. LOL. I find you narrow your own mind

every time you think you know what narrows my mind. Sheesh.

[Merlin]

2. Nice sentiments, but...

Truly, for the conscientious, your advice, carolinayellowdog, is very good. Unfortunately, the folks who do this kind of thing are probably not very introspective, and get way too much satisfaction out of doing what they do.

The current DU rules at least put these folks under a lot of constraints.

[carolinayellowdog]

6. A useful concept for all

Hey Merlin, Joe, and all,

The incorrigible are just that and consciousness-raising efforts are wasted on them. But perhaps the notion of "fixed complaint" can be useful for the rest of us in framing what they do and responding (or not responding.) Saying "are you *still* complaining about *that*?" might squelch or shame them better than getting caught up in debate with them.

And of course for the corrigible it is useful to look in the mirror with this notion in mind. Confession: my fixed complaint, expressed in dozens of posts for years in many fora, is "dogmatic people are mean and mean people suck." I try to focus on more substantive issues most of the time though, not wanting to become a bore.

CYD

[JNelson6563]

10. Good post CarolinaYellowDog!!

I agree with you whole-heartedly!!

It reminds me of parenting, this DUing. The discipline aspect of it especially.

There's the more strategic and taxing approach of talk and reason, and then you have the less imaginative quick slap (or what-have-you).

One fosters dialogue and understanding the other is completely counter-productive. Quite telling for those who choose the latter (both in parenting and board behavior)isn't it?

This is the second call for civility I've seen today. I think you are to be commended!

Julie

[XanaDUer]

5. Kewl!

Wow. Early Sunday, and I've already got my sermon.

I know, I know, you're putting me on ignore. :D

[molly]

7. You hit the nail on the head

there are those that come here with the sole purpose of starting a fight. They never say anything positive or contribute in a logical, thoughtful, mature manner. They remind me of a drug addict in need of a fix or a teenager with raging hormones or a combination of both. I've been in heated debates, but that's not WHY I come here. I don't have anyone on ignore.

[Jim Sagle]

8. Question (for anyone): Does IGNORE slow down response time?

[JustJoe]

11. By "response time"

do you mean the time it takes to load pages?
For me, no. I dont see why it would,
unless you mean something else.
Try it. It's as easy to take people off
ignore as it is to put them on.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. I Know What A Fixed Complaint

is but what is legitimate and illegitimate criticism and who decides?

And isn't the best antidote to "bad speech" good speech.

Let's have a robust debate.


"Let a thousand flowers bloom."

[rucky]

14. BevHarris is Allowed To Be Obsessed!

Hooray for Bev!

[oasis]

32. Please clarify, since BevHarris is not participating on this thread.

Hopefully you meant nothing negative.

[Booberdawg]

34. Clearly a compliment

n/t

[bobd]

15. My Bottomless Pit of Resentment

is reserved for Bush, the neocons and the people that enable and support them. This probably includes > 60% of the US. Due to my incessent pessimism I have no doubt I'm on many folks ignore list. It makes me sad to know this - I'm really not a bad guy and I KNOW I'm overly pessimistic.

I find DU a GREAT outlet for rants and to comizzerate (spelling) with like minded folks. I have no one on my igonore list; I find it much easier to not read/respond to threads in which I have no particular interest. People have many facets (spelling?) to them. I really do want to be open to differing opinions and I try not to be so arrogant as to permanently ignore someone because a couple of posts offend me. The person's next post may well be a gem or provide that missing dollop of insight I'm seeking.

Bob D.

[John_H]

16. All Dems should have a fixed complaint

people who want to see dems lose. This includes republicans, freepers, greens, most major journalists, etc. Folks can apply all the psych 101 labels they want, but if your goal is to defeat Dems, you are indistinguishable to me and thus worthy of equal contempt.

Jeez, I hope freeper and green disruptors have me on ignore--means I've pissed them off at least once.

[sendero]

17. it took...

... a thinker like Gurdjieff to coin the term "fixed complaint"? I hardly know anyone who doesn't have certain hot-button issues that raise their bile. What is wrong with that? As long as there is a semblance of fairness about their claims of course.

Hmmm.... what are *my* hot-button issues? I definitely have them, so here goes....

NPR - can't understand how anyone listening to the regular unanswered diatribes from the Heritage Foundation and the American Enterprise Institute et al could possibly think they are balanced. They are FOX with an intellectual patina.

the Economy - guess what folks, we may be heading for a depression that makes the 30s look nice. No longer a long shot, becoming more likely every day. Coming to a town near you!

Bush* - there is virtually nothing this walking pusshole says or does that doesn't piss me off and make me wonder what kind of a stepford hell we are living in.


How's that for hijacking a thread :)

[carolinayellowdog]

30. Multiple hot-button issues is no problem

and someone like Bev whose obsession translates into hard work is heroic in my book. It's only people who are real Johnny one-notes, and whose complaints and aggression are directed constantly at other DUers who present a problem IMO.

Gurdjieff coined many phrases and gave special meanings to familiar words like "identification." I don't think he'll ever make it into the canon of Psych 101, but his system is well worth looking into IMO.

CYD

[sendero]

33. I tried....

.... to get into Gurdjieff because one of my most important cultural icons (Robert Fripp) said he was cool. I bought one of his books and tried to read it but it was either way over my head or way under it :)

In any event, I think I understand what you are saying. I've noticed a lot of posts lately that seem to have a single-minded aim, and their content bears little relationship to honest discourse. I have made every attempt to simply stay out of those threads. I won't try to explain a programming concept like "memory heap" to my young kids, and I try not to engage in a contest of logic with the patently illogical :)

There really are a lot of disruptors here who have learned how to fly just under the alert radar. Nothing we can do about it I suppose :)

[jfkennedy]

18. Why I am critical of Dean

The only reason why I am critical of Dean is because he really reminds me of a used car salesmen, with that fake smile. Buy this car, the best of the all its used but it's the best deal you can get.

Put that in political terms.

I campaigned as a antiwar candidate, now I'm getting allot of money so my message must be good. Compare with a used care salesmen. People have paid thousands of dollars more for a similar type car.

It's like he is more interested in selling the idea then actually supporting the idea, of a world without war.


http://antiwarmonger

[tjdee]

19. He's not against war, not against pre-emptive war, just the Iraq war.

And he's said so.

Whether some people hear that is another issue.

[ibegurpard]

20. This thread's not about Dean

The fact that you ignored everything else said to zero in on that particular bit kind of proves the poster's point, don't you think?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. I regard the nastier ones as a bit of verite performance art

[Sophree]

26. I've never heard that term before

A fixed complaint. That helps explain a lot.

Racists and homophobes seem to fit this bill in that they seem to be obsessed with hatred towards gays and/or minorities.

[UTUSN]

31. Prolly Just 30,000 AND Eloriel Have ME on "Ignore" But

***********Can't Say It Myself, & Don't Know What it MEANS***
.... Most of the ugliness here at DU comes from a few contributors who not only complain about the same thing over and over but are aggressive to other DUers who somehow provide an opening for the complaint. Some seize every opportunity to express aggression towards religion. Some have a fixed complaint about astrology. One in particular posts only anti-Dean rants as far as I can tell. Another is obsessed exclusively with complaining about anti-theism. In the past we've had posters obsessed with dissing Southerners. Greens and anti-Greens; on and on.

Now, I'm not averse to reading complaints or seeing aggression expressed on occasion. But seeing the same people complaining about the same things over and over tells me they're using DU to scapegoat. Some Southerner, or some Dean supporter, or some anti-theist stepped on their toes at some point, and now they're going to avenge their insult at the expense of 30,000 DUers who don't come here to read endless repetitive complaints.

My suggestion, perhaps doomed to fall on deaf ears, is this: if you feel yourself moved to complain and express aggression here in your posts, before you do, ask yourself a couple of questions. 1. Am I complaining about the same thing over and over, because I have a fixed complaint? 2. Am I scapegoating the particular person I'm attacking, because of a bottomless pit of resentment inside me? If the answer to these questions is yes, do yourself and DU a favor and GIVE IT A REST.
*************UNQUOTE*************(I Don't Know Where I Got It****