How is this "job tide" going to turn? .........Wake Up America

[cthrumatrix]

Everyday I see more companies firing, outsourcing (third world countries) .... the individual numbers for some comapnies are scary and I suspect these jobs will NOT comeback to these shores.

Motorola announced several thousand more today...but this is just part of the annual plan.

http://twincities.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2003/04/14/daily25.html
snip...

Motorola now expects to reduce its global workforce to about 90,000 by the end of the year vs. its previous estimate of 93,000. The cuts will come from attrition, previously announced plans to outsource information technology and human resources, and "selected workforce reductions," according to the Reuters report.

snip....

The question is how does a company ever decide again they are willing to pay $70,000 as opposed to the $10-15K annual replacement salaries (if that) in India and other countries. The answer is they won't! This is profit on the 2003, 2004 and beyond bottom line.

This is a mjor problem for this country. We will not have a "sustained" economic rebound and I'm afraid we will continue this shit until we fight back.

You can't have a recovery if we don't manufacture products and the jobs associated.

You can't have a recovery when these firms are not paying US taxes into our economy.


Somebody please tell me how this is going to change...?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Start by electing Democrats

ones that understand why "free trade" hurts the American worker.

[cthrumatrix]

2. If it were true...than we would have that as a solution....but dems. voted

for NAFTA and other treaties...in fact some of the pres candidates did as well.

both parties have contributed.

[w4rma]

3. Blame the DLC (not DNC) for that

[cthrumatrix]

4. i'm not looking to blame anyone...just stating facts....

this trend is "a slippery slope" for the US

Where are funds going to come for:

* healthcare, social security, etc...

[acerbic]

5. Some economic reality...

USA has been in the forefront of developing technologies like computers and software and that's why U.S. products, services and yes, labor, could be sold to others for premium prices.

When the others catch up and develop the same capabilities, no amount of protectionism is going to preserve the forerunner status. It could be preserved by developing the existing technologies and capabilities further and creating whole new ones, but that doesn't seem to be anybody's high priority now.

[Yupster]

16. Correct acerbic

In order for our workers to make more than Indian workers, our workers have to be better. If they're as good or better, there's no reason to pay ours when you could get their's cheaper.

We better start inventing something or our standard of living will meet India's somewhere in the middle.

And what does NAFTA have to do with jobs moving to India anyway?

[indigo32]

59. The only way

We have been at the forefront a long time and we must contiue that.

[JanMichael]

6. Simple: Most will become Service employees.

Y'all will make less, have fewer benefits & less job security.

Cheap Labor CONservatives win again!

Cheers...

[cthrumatrix]

7. you're right..I'll just go back to watching my "fear factor".....

[DemoTex]

8. "Low Wage" CONservatives?

Yer talkin' 'bout their effect on us union members JanMichael, my friend. We ain't cheap, but they damn sure want to lower our wages. Want to??!!! Hell, the pilots at my airline gave back $636 million/year in concessions last year. That is the largest single-union give-back in the history of the airline industry. They have won. They will win again.

On second thought, we are cheap. We are cheap whores to let them get away with what they have. We allow them to put 33% of our union on the streets, cut our wages by as much as 60%, and terminate our pension (yes! TERMINATE!), and we roll over on our backs for another fucking because "we at least have jobs" and "they are still paying us a good salary." I take it all back, we are all cheap labor whores playing right into the big plan of these rapacious bastards.

[JanMichael]

14. Damn it DT! Stop using REAL LIFE EXAMPLES!

Roll over and take it like a...I must pause...a "Good" victim...

[DemoTex]

18. Oh we did! The union, I mean.

WIthout KY, in the ass.

[paulsbc]

15. what unions should do...

is start companies that compete with those screwing you over... I'm a huge believer in the ability to rise above, and given that union power and influence is so capable, they really should consider sticking to the company the best way possible, by starting another company and putting the first out of business! why don't more unions do this? They have the manpower, they have the knowledge, and they have the political and economic capabilities, do they not?

Perhaps a revolution within unions is in order? Get some of the big money VCs and other Democrat elites to bankroll and get a new game going.

I like it..

[DemoTex]

19. You can't do that, I don't think.

At least, not until the labor contract is invalid. That is usually well before a strike, under the Railway Labor Act. The closest that has come, in recent times, is at UAL. Look where that got them! UAL is such a strong union airline (their ALPA has the biggest balls in the industry), that the Bu$h regime would just love to let them whither on the vine. And might. UAL's woes are blamed on the unions, when they are indeed a product of a rapacious merger deal between US Air's Wolf and UAL's Goodwin, and the 9/11 impact on the travel industry.

[peacetalksforall]

9. Even if we moved to India..

India would never allow us to enter their country and take jobs away from their natural born citizens.

Can you imagine bread lines in this country and an Indian Marshall Plan for us?

So how far are the corporate planners going to go?

All the burden is on the shoulders of the middle class for taxes. Middle class...independents who deal in staples and the lucky few who work for the corporations and whose job it is to manage and direct the workers in India.

[peacetalksforall]

10. And Ireland

and Canada and a few other select countries.

[cthrumatrix]

11. this say's it all

Published on Tuesday, May 6, 2003 by The Nation
Top Gun at Job Destruction
by Katrina vanden Heuvel

There's no denying that George Bush knows how to stage patriotic spectacles at sea, but the reality back on shore is not so technicolor pretty. Did you know that Top Gun Bush is poised to become the first President since Herbert Hoover to preside over job destruction rather than job creation? Thanks to Daniel Gross's article, recently posted on Slate, we also know that Bush's last tax cut, the largest cut in American history, has so far "cost" America 1.7 million jobs and counting.

For a good comparison of how Bush's record of job destruction compares to previous presidencies since World War II, check out the following compilation by the International Association of Machinists, which looked at the average growth in monthly employment during the terms of the last fifteen presidential administrations.

Truman First Term: 60,000 jobs gained per month

Truman Second Term: 113,000 jobs gained per month

Eisenhower First Term: 58,000 jobs gained per month

Eisenhower Second Term: 15,000 jobs gained per month

Kennedy: 122,000 jobs gained per month

Johnson: 206,000 jobs gained per month

Nixon First Term: 129,000 jobs gained per month

Nixon/Ford : 105,000 jobs gained per month

Carter: 218,000 jobs gained per month

Reagan First Term: 109,000 jobs gained per month

Reagan Second Term: 224,000 jobs gained per month

G. Bush: 52,000 jobs gained per month

Clinton First Term: 242,000 jobs gained per month

Clinton Second Term: 235,000 jobs gained per month

G.W. Bush : 69,000 jobs LOST per month

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0506-07.htm

[Lone_Wolf]

12. Basically we need to have trade agreements that protect Americans

We also should only have trade relations with countries where people have the right to organize.

[paulsbc]

13. you have hit the nail on the head

with the job drain to other countries being a big problem. Along with the textile and factory jobs are now 'white collar' jobs, especially in the tech industry.

Now, how to solve? That is a very good question, and one that doesn't have easy answers, or even goverment fixable answers, that I can see, short of the leveling of wages in this country to more 'reasonable' rates.

One example: many Java programmers back in 1999 could make $100k with very little experience and be treated like royalty. This was what I call "voodoo" employment, which was much of the Internet phenom causing job and salary creation that, truthfully, couldn't be justified. Now, a Java programmer in the US makes $50-75k, and is continuing to lose ground to India, where Java programmers make $10-20k, and are just as good. This is just a small example, and perhaps not worth getting on a tangent about since it isn't putting forward 'real' solution to the query you pose, but rather a realistic view of what may have to happen here with certain job types re-adjusting to the 'real' world...

I'd love to hear how the government could stop this from occuring, but I'm doubtful that government plays as big a role in economic job creation as many would have you believe...

[Yupster]

17. Making shirts for $ 8 a piece

when other countries can make them for $ 2 will never work.

If we want a higher standard of living we need to make things that no one else can make. You'll pay a lot for stuff that no one else can make.

However, our schools are weak, and we put less and less money into research and development.

And, we have enough lawyers so that when someone does invent something, he has to go through 10 years of lawsuits before he can develop it.

My opinion is that we are not sprinting any longer and other countries are catching us, and their standard of living will meet ours somewhere in the middle.

Europe has the same problem as we do except a little worse.

Germany announced just this weekend that they are officially back in recession that they just got out of late last year. We have at least had weak growth for the last two years.

[zoidberg]

45. Yupster for DU chief economist

Well said. We can't expect to sit on our current technology and expect to keep our standard of living while the entire world around us catches up.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

51. Let the world catch up, we'll keep going

There's no reason that raising living standards in other countries has to lower ours. The only reason to lower our living standards is so corporations can make more profit.

Cheap labor conservatives? What about all the cheap labor liberals? They are more dangerous to us at this point.

[acerbic]

54. Yes, there is reason indeed

There's no reason that raising living standards in other countries has to lower ours.

Stuff imported to USA will be more expensive because it will be made by people with raised living standards, which means lower living standards in USA. Duh. Not saying that it's good or bad, just that it's reality

The only reason to lower our living standards is so corporations can make more profit.

...whereas that is only rhetoric and fantasy, sorry.

[Democat]

20. This is one of the big issues facing the Western world right now

Beyond trying to make it into a Democrat versus Republican issue, how can it be solved?

[Yavin4]

21. Massive Government Spending or Massive Social Unrest

Either the government will have to start pumping out more money to keep people employed or sustain them or there will be massive, uncontrollable social unrest. It's that simple.

This economy is losing jobs day after day, and even if you have a job, your pay will drop accordingly. No one is safe from this, and there's no new internet and telecom revolution in the foreground.

Bush and the Republicans will either have to reverse his tax cuts or the people will revolt against. Cheap debt cannot go on forever.

[Yupster]

22. Sounds like what Europe's been doing

but they're in worse shape than we are. Do we really want to follow them?

[Yavin4]

25. What Do You Want To Say To Millions of Angry Americans

who will have huge debts and no jobs. What are you going to say to them? Tough Luck?!

[Yupster]

27. I don't have an answer

and I haven't heard anyone else come up with an answer either.

If an 800 # can be picked up just as easily in Manila as it can be in Minneapolis, the phone bank person in Minneapolis will not be paid much more than the person in Manila. That's just basic economics.

The answer is to make sure America continues to invent and produce things that no one in the rest of the world knows how to make. However with the state of our schools and all, I don't see that happening.

One example is pharmacuticals. If I was a company trying to invent a new drug or medicine, I would be nuts to do it in America. You know there will be some percentage of problems with some new drugs and America will sue you right out of business. I read somewhere, and I don't know if it's true or not that every single company that made asbestos was sued out of existence.

So our standard of living depends on being the leaders of new products and innovations, but I just don't see us doing the things that encourages just those things we need.

I don't have any answers. My own prediction is that our standard of living will drop and India's will rise until we are about equal, and at that point there will be no advantage to sending the job to India. That's a tough meeting to have though, but no one stays king forever. When you get fat and lazy, there's always someone else willing to sprint by you.

[Democat]

44. What are you going to say to them?

The country is in deep debt already, the only way to support massive spending would be through massive tax increases. If many of the private sector jobs are leaving, where are the extra taxes going to come from?

What is your solution?

[Yupster]

46. I think what you tell people is

that if you elect this guy or that guy everything will get better, and the reason things are bad are this guy's fault or that guy's. fault.

Meanwhile gradually over 30 years or so our standard of living will fall in line with what economics can justify.

[Yavin4]

52. My Solution Is Massive Government Spending

In fact, that's what happening right now. The government has extended UE benefits consistently over the past two and a half years, as the economy has lost over 2.5 million jobs. I would pay for this by raising taxes on the wealthy. Revoking Bush's foolish tax cuts and creating public works jobs in education and technology.

Corporations are outsourcing jobs at all levels. It's not just going to be IT. It will be finance, accounting, and marketing jobs as well.

[fortyfeetunder]

23. Outsourcing in India is conditional --

Unless India and Pakistan think of getting it on again, and aren't they both playing with nukes in their collective sandboxes?

[Yupster]

24. Not just India either

My company moved its phone bank jobs to the Philippines.

I don't know what the answer to this is. It's a huge problem, but I haven't heard any reasonable answers from anyone.

International minimum wage I guess I don't understand because it doesn't make sense to me.

NAFTA has nothing to do with India or the Philippines.

[paulsbc]

26. talked with my neighbor

the other day, and he works for a manufacturing company that makes the XBox. He said that they have moved from Mexico to China because Mexico couldn't compete with China on costs. Amazing... The cost of the XBox pieces they manufacture in Mexico was like $28. In China he said it will drop to <$10. I asked how much it would cost to produce in the US, he laughed.....

Perhaps my job search should take me into the "managing overseas workers" path?...

[amazona]

55. article in the Nation on this awhile back

China is coming in and stealing the jobs from Mexico.

I don't know how we can compete with a country where, if someone complains, they cut his heart out and sell it for organ transplants.

I don't think we should be doing business with China. And, if we do continue to do business with China, it is not realistic to expect anything but increasingly worse pay and benefits for our own workers.

[Democat]

28. International minimum wage doesn't sound like a solution

Maybe I don't fully understand the international minimum wage concept, but I don't think it would solve the problem. It might be a good idea to protect against abuse, but this is not an issue of worker abuse so much as it is an issue of cost of living.

People working in the tech industry in India very likely make more than the adjusted minimum wage for their cost of living and they can still do the same job for far less than an American worker. The fact is that the cost of living and reasonable wages in countries vary significantly.

You can't just make a fixed (non adjusted) minimum wage for the whole world or it would probably cause more problems than it would solve.

[Yupster]

29. I also don't ubderstand it

the international minimum wage.

Let's say there's a shopowner in Mozambique who pays his workers 65 cents a day and he himself makes $ 8 a day profit. So what happens next? He's supposed to pay his clerk $ 3 an hour? How can that happen? and what authority to we have for passing laws in other countries anyway? I would think the Mozambique parliament or whatever they have would ignore whatever pronouncements we'd proclaim.

[Democat]

30. International minimum wage seems to target a different problem

There probably should be some sort of "fair wage" law that says that workers producing products that are imported into America must be paid the official minimum wage of the country of origin. I'm sure that this issue is covered already by treaties and laws in the countries where the work is being done, so I don't know if there needs to be another law or not. Even if there is a need for additional legislation to protect against abuse, I don't think it relates directly to this issue.

It's hard to imagine that we could superceded existing laws in the countries where the actual work is being done, unless there is some sort of actual criminal abuse going on. Imagine if France or Germany made a law that American workers had to get the same amount of vacation time as workers in those countries or products made in American couldn't be imported. I would never work.

Look at India as an example. Many of the tech workers in India are probably upper middle class by Indian standards, yet they still work for far less actual money than American workers who may be middle class at their wage level for the same work. Both of these workers live a similar lifestyle, relatively, but the actual wage of the Indian worker is far below that of the American. How can you equalize that? Isn't it really already equal? You can't pay the Indian worker the same unadjusted wage as the American is making just so he doesn't undercut the American worker. That would probably push the Indian worker's wage into the "rich" category in his country and cause most Indian companies to go out of business. You can't pay the American what the Indian is making because he won't be able to survive.

The Indian worker is being paid fairly by Indian standards and the American worker is being paid fairly by American standards. Where is the problem with wages?

The problem is that jobs are moving out of America because the same worker is cheaper for them in India. What should politicians do to deal with the situation?

[Yupster]

31. I agree with all Demo --

I just don't have a good solution, and haven't heard anyone else suggest one either.

[acerbic]

32. Solution: just DON'T do what Dumbya & Co. is doing

They are producing massive deficits which means that sooner or later something will have to give which means uncertainty and instability which aren't exactly incentives for investing (any trillions in tax cuts won't be invested if there are no good investment opportunities).

Just don't do it.

They are giving massive corporate welfare and protection to all the wrong industries that create practically no new innovations, like oil, coal and stagnant car companies that just spit out SUVs. They suck resources that could otherwise go to new, innovative industries.

Just don't do it.

etc. etc.

Instead the government should just create a stable economic environment that doesn't favor smokestack industries and let entrepreneurs and innovators simply do what they do. Pretty much what Clinton did. Look at the job creation statistics...

[Yupster]

33. Irony can be so ironic

The explosion of the internet and related technologies fueled so many good paying jobs, but those technologies also connected the globe so thoroughly that it became possible to move technology jobs to Manila or Bombay.

In a way, we invented ourselves right out of millions of good jobs.

[Democat]

34. Could a weaker dollar help keep jobs in America?

By destroying the U.S. economy and ruining the value of the dollar, maybe Bush will be helping jobs stay in America.

Imagine another 5 years of Bush when the dollar is less valuable than the Indian currency. Maybe Indian companies will start moving their business here looking for cheap labor? :)

[acerbic]

35. Maybe, but then Americans can forget about buying relatively cheap

...BMWs, Mercedes, French wine, oil and other imported things that make the standard of living high for many, or even all that everyday stuff you can get for a dollar or two because it's made in China or somewhere.

[Yupster]

47. That's what I was saying Demo

eventually economics will work itself out.

Our standard of living will meet India's somewhere in the middle and at that point there will be no advantage to moving jobs out any more.

That meeting is hardly one we'd like to have though, but I haven't heard any solutions from DU'ers, or for people who are supposed to be thinking of solutions either.

[laura888]

36. if corporations are going to reap the benefits...

...of low-wage non-U.S. workers, they need to give back to the U.S. in some other way. Probably in the form of high taxes, high tariffs.

I just don't understand how this type of free-trade is benefitting me other than allowing me to buy a shirt for Walmart for $12.

I would pay double that, no problem, and I suspect many other Americans would too.

[Democat]

38. You can choose to buy American now if you want to

You don't have to wait for the government to act. You can start buying only American made goods anytime you want to. That's probably a good start if your goal is to force companies to use American workers.

I'm not sure a trade war is going to work because other countries may respond by punishing U.S. goods and that will hurt exports, so the benefits of overtaxing imports may be offset by the harm of having our exports overtaxed.

It's a hard issue to find a solution to.

[Yupster]

48. Test your theory Laura

open some type of store that only sells American-made stuff. Advertise it as much more expensive than the made in Indonesia, China, Malaysia stuff, but good for America, and see how you do.

Maybe you'll get rich?

If you do, please consider making me a slight consulting payment as my kid's college money is in the stock market and I'm kind of worried about it.

[cap]

72. not as unrealistic as you think...

but it will take education.

Price is not the only discriminant; so is quality. But people are getting wise to the fact that they are buying junk and some are getting sick of it.

I have a few examples:

Potholders. I needed new ones and went to Bed & Bath and bought "made in China" -- cheap potholders. Grabbed a hot pan and my hand was uncomfortably warm. Got fed up and went to a cooking supply store and bought "made in America" ones. Paid more for them but the worked just fine. A neighbor had the same experience -- she went to a thrift store and bought some old ones that had been donated. The old ones -- made in America -- worked just fine.

Bird Feeders. Bought the $6 plastic ones -- made in China. Squirrels tore it up. Bought a $20 one -- made in China. Squirrels tore it up. Bought a $40 one --- made in USA -- works just fine. Look how much I ended up spending on bird feeders just to figure this out!!! I feel dumb.

Clothes... I am either buying "made in China" -- and real cheap -- $6 shirts or I go to a consignment store and buy "made in USA" or Europe and buy expensive.

Shoes... I am planning my honeymoon in Italy where I will be a second Imelda Marcos and buy at least 10 pairs of shoes.

I am slowly dropping out of the corporate grid. I buy food when I can in season from a farm. I realize this is not practical for everyone -- but I do think people should take periodic trips to the countryside or the ocean and buy food from the people who make it. You can not believe the difference it makes.

Americans need to be re-educated on quality. Quality matters and we can produce it here at a reasonable price if we focus. I am finding there are more people who are tired of cheap crap and will buy American if it is made well. A lot of it is buying from niche producers -- the large corporations have lost sight of quality in their zest for downsizing.

[cthrumatrix]

37. How about "incentives" for buying made in America...for example

You can be forthright with the American consumer and say with your $400 tax credit ...think of buying made in America products. I know it doesn't mean they would do it...but if they explained...they might.

Second...there will be a day when we say that "equal trade" means "equal trade".....no longer can we buy billions from China and the US exports less....trade imbalances need to be watched. This is much harder and who would knwo the truth while our jobs leave this country.

My friends...this is a problem. And I must say...this one may not have been created by our politicians but they have certainly been keen enanblers through NAFTA,WTO and the soon to be hatched CAFTA.

Typical real issue ..... never talked about.

[Democat]

39. Your idea is a good one

A step in the right direction may be in convincing consumers to buy more American made goods. If there was a big grassroots movement to only "buy American", maybe some companies would be swayed to keep jobs here for fear of losing business. You would have to convince them that they would lose more money through lost sales than the money they would lose by paying higher wages.

That's a strategy that would require a lot of activism and organization. The unions would probably be the ones to put something like this together, and they have supported the "buy American" idea over the years.

Other than that, I'm not sure what the legislative solution might be.

[laura888]

40. people will only pay the extra $ to buy american...

...if they understand why.

there needs to be a massive media campaign to expose working conditions of overseas workers as well as the plight of laid-off American workers.

Then the cameras MUST cut directly to the owners of the criminal corporations to illustrate that this is not some face-less shift in tides that cannot be controlled.

I think many people feel that the free-market is harsh, but is beyond their control.

This myth must be exposed.

[Yupster]

50. This was done when I was a kid

does anyone else remember the song "look for the union label when you are buying ..."

The problem was that we were having clothing jobs leaving the country back in the late 60's, and that was a campaign to stop it. It was all over tv where I lived in NYC.

Did it work? Let me look at some of my shirt labels...... Nope - didn't work.

[Yupster]

49. Certainly it would work with brokerage houses

If you called your Merrill Lynch or Fidelity home office and let them know that the day you find out they've moved their phone banks overseas is the same day you will be moving your accounts to a competing broker, they will have second thoughts on how much such a move would save them.

About half the brokerage firms have done this already, and the other half are training their people overseas and will do it in the next year or two.

Next will come giant companies like IBM.

[cthrumatrix]

41. where do companies say "made in america" anymore? They should.

It could a great marketing strategy for entry into key business's that are hurt by overseas labor.

What about making a law that say's if your manufacturing is 85% automated...then it needs to be in built in the US. The costs for the machines for production are the same..so guy buy them.

There should be no excuses for something that is soo highly automated not to have done here.

Taxes and labor laws...are not a reason for a situation where 85% is machine automated.

Hell...we probably buy most of the output anyway...save on shipping (lol).

[Mairead]

42. By electing someone who's going to treat a complete array

of capabilities as a national strategic necessity. SOmeone like Dennis Kucinich.

[Democat]

43. What is Kucinich's solution to this problem?

Rather than just endorsing him, which is great and I will be happy if just about any Democrat wins in 2004, can you tell us what he has to say about this specific issue and how he would deal with it?

[Yupster]

53. I expect to see a lot of this in the next decade or so

We have a very real, maybe insolvable problem, and the biggest solution we will hear is

How can this very difficult problem be solved?

Errrrrrrrr -- elect John Smith for President!!! Yeahhhh

He'll reverse the failed policies of the past, put the economy into a more balanced position and use a comprehensive approach to putting the country to work again.

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Democat]

56. Does any Democratic candidate have a solution?

Does any think tank have a solution? Is there a solution?

[Mairead]

57. The short answer is 'make manufacturing a strategic priority'

I can't quote it from memory, but if you'd like to hear him say it, one instance is on the CSPAN copy of Harkin's get-together in Iowa. He stresses that, as a national-security measure, we must again have a complete manufacturing capability of our own, from raw materials through finished goods. Otherwise we're at the mercy of other countries, which is quite an insecure situation to be in. So he would make it a national strategic priority to rebuild US manufacturing capability.

[Yupster]

58. Well those manufacturing plants will not be close to competitive

with plants overseas.

It would take massive, giant, huge, unending corporate subsidies to keep them in business.

Is Kucinik really suggesting massive corporate welfare? I'd find that hard to believe.

[Mairead]

63. Not for export, for domestic consumption

He views a full-spectrum manufacturing capability as a strategic necessity for national security. It's possible that even with shipping, foreign steel would be cheaper than local steel, but his policy (I'm extrapolating a bit, here...he didn't fully spell this out) would be to use local steel in the infrastructure-repair program he proposes.

[Yupster]

65. Government propping up non-competitive industries...

sounds like what made a basketcase of the Japanese economy.

[Mairead]

68. Perhaps I don't get your point

If we're consuming steel here at home for strategic national-security purposes, exactly why should we be putting the purchase price into (e.g.) Japanese hands?

[Yupster]

69. My point was that Japan's

economy is a basketcase. Worse than ours. Even worse than western Europe's.

The main thing Japan has been guilty of is propping up non-competitive businesses. They have thousands of workers working in companies where they are not needed. They grow their rice domestically though they could buy it for half the cost.

Each time their government moves in to prop up another non-competitive corporation, Japan gets a little less competitive, and its economy can no longer handle all that dead weight.

Their stock market is below where it was 16 years ago. They're now proposing shipping their elderly to the Philippines where they can be properly cared for. Their interest rate has been at 0 % for a couple of years now.

You ever hear that Germany ran its economy on synthetic fuel during WWII (exaggeration) and the reason we don't do it today is to protect Exon? We could make synthetic oil today too, but it is just very expensive. Germany had no choice so they made synthetic fuel no matter how costly it was. But it was at great cost to them tying up great amounts of manpower and materials that should have been used for other things like fighting Russians.

We could triple the amount of oil we get from West Texas if we wanted to. But the cost of extracting it is prohibitive (another story). It's far more productive to get it from other countries where it's easier to extract and we use our labor and resources doing something that we are good at. Then we trade and both sides get wealthier.

But, our problem is that we are running out of things that we are good at doing. The rest of the world is catching up to us, and we seem to be doing our best at coming back to them.

What we've always been best at was inventing things, perfecting things, tools, medicines, ideas, cars, planes, space technology, information.

Now it seems like we're trying to slow down. A good percentage of our kids are not being educated, but even worse, many top kids'educations, the kids who will do the inventing and perfecting, are being slowed because it's now more important to get everyone past the test. Lawsuits seem designed to slow down any new idea or product.

And now it's suggested to put our dear resources into businesses that we know are non-competitive when we know to keep our standard of living we need to develop, invent and push new ideas and things? It will just be one more drag on an already dragged economy.

But the world will survive. As we slow down, there will always be another group sprinting to pass us and they will carry on the world's economic advancement, and their people will deserve the best standard of living in the world.

[JPace]

70. We have a huge military pricetag...

that seems to be causing more future trouble for us
than true protection. We have made many enemies with
bush's agressiveness and abuse of our military might.
I wonder how much it would help our economy to spend
a lot less on the military and use the money for the
bettering the lives of ordinary people.

Is Japan really going to ship their old people out of
the country to be cared for? Makes one wonder if we
will be shipping ours to India for care someday.....
probably will be a rethug idea to save money.

[Mairead]

71. I repeat:

exactly how would it be helpful to put the money in foreign pockets?

[HFishbine]

60. Space Age and Internet Age

Yes, bringing some equity to labor and environmental conditions among trading partners may help stem the flow of jobs, but it's not a strategy for job creation.

The space age and the Internet age both created private sector growth, but they started with government investment in R&D. That's exactly what is needed now. A return to a sound fiscal policy so that we can afford to fund advanced R&D.

Many possibilities exist as far as where. Alternative energy or advanced biology/pharmachology are possibilities. But we need a leader who can articulate the benefits and sell it to the American people the way Kennedy sold the space program.

[indigo32]

62. exactly

a little(make that alot) investment in R&D.

[acerbic]

64. Not only R&D but education too

...so that the new industries will have workers with new skills.

[Democat]

67. This is an interesting idea for a possible long term plan

Your idea, as I understand it, is that we would try to put (or keep) America at the forefront of technological innovation and then hope that the innovation creates jobs?

That sounds possible, but on the other hand, why wouldn't companies just take the products created by these innovations and manufacture the new gadgets overseas?

Look at computers as an example. American companies might lead the world in computer related innovations, but much of the manufacturing and engineering is still being done outside of the U.S. because of labor costs. Even if the "brains" are in the U.S., the jobs end up elsewhere.

I think you are looking in the right direction, though. This problem probably needs to be addresses somehow without massive legislation that will just trigger a tradewar.

[SharonAnn]

61. Hey, Bush just said the 'economy was shallow" and the TV

is at fault for having the concentration on the "March to War" and it's hard to have a strong economy during a "March to War".

Those nasty TV stations.

[shanti]

66. dunno, but i'm in california

and my job is in jeopardy. i got a pink slip and it could come anytime.