Have most US wars and foreign interventions been justified?

[RichM]

Poll question: Have most US wars and foreign interventions been justified?

By "foreign interventions" I'm including CIA operations, & situations where the US trained, financed, and/or supported the actual combattants, even if no US troops were directly involved. We are considering the period of history starting with the Spanish-American War (1898).

[RichM]

1. kick ....

Step right up, register yer opinions, don't be shy....

[Terwilliger]

3. it's like herding cats

HYAH kitty! *SNAP* *SNAP* HYEEEAH!!!!

[gbwarming]

2. You mean these?

( http://www.zmag.org/list2.htm )

CHINA, 1989-1900 - Troops/ Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.
PHILIPPINES, 1898-1910(-?) Naval, troops. Seized from Spain, killed 600,000 Filipinos.
CUBA, 1898-1902(-?) Naval, troops/ Seized from Spain, still hold Navy base.
PUERTO RICO, 1898(-?) Naval, troops/ Seized from Spain, occupation continues.
GUAM, 1898(-?) Naval, troops/ Seized from Spain, still use as base.
MINNESOTA, 1898(-?) Troops/ Army battles Chippewa at Leech Lake.
NICARAGUA, 1898 - Troops / Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.
SAMOA, 1899(-?) Troops/ Battle over succession to throne.
NICARAGUA, 1899 - Troops/ Marines land at port of Bluefields.
IDAHO, 1899-1901 - Troops / Army occupies C?ur d'Alene mining region.
OKLAHOMA, 1901 - Troops/ Army battles Creek Indian revolt.
PANAMA, 1901-14 - Naval, troops/ Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone 1914-99.
HONDURAS, 1903 - Troops/ Marines intervene in revolution.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, 1903-04 - Troops. U.S. interests protected in Revolution.
KOREA, 1904-05 - Troops/ Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.
CUBA, 1906-09 - Troops/ Marines land in democratic election.
NICARAGUA, 1907 - Troops/ 'Dollar Diplomacy' protectorate set up.
HONDURAS, 1907 - Troops/ Marines land during war with Nicaragua.
PANAMA, 1908 - Troops / Marines intervene in election contest.
NICARAGUA, 1910 - Troops / Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.
HONDURAS, 1911 - Troops/ U.S. interests protected in civil war.
CUBA, 1912 - Troops/ U.S. interests protected in Havana.
PANAMA, 1912 - Troops/ Marines land during heated election.
HONDURAS, 1912 - Troops/ Marines protect U.S. economic interests.
NICARAGUA, 1912-33 - Troops, bombing/ 20-year occupation, fought guerrillas.
MEXICO, 1913 - Naval/ Americans evacuated during revolution.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, 1914 - Naval/ Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.
COLORADO, 1914 - Troops/ Breaking of miners' strike by Army.
MEXICO, 1914-18 - Naval, troops/ Series of interventions against nationalists.
HAITI, 1914-34 - Troops, bombing/ 19-year occupation after revolts.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, 1916-24 - Troops. 8-year Marine occupation.
CUBA, 1917-33 - Troops. Military occupation, economic protectorate.
WORLD WAR I, 1917-18 - Naval, troops/ Ships sunk, fought Germany.
RUSSIA, 1918-22 - Naval, troops. Five landings to fight Bolsheviks.
PANAMA, 1918-20 - Troops. 'Police duty' during unrest after elections.
YUGOSLAVIA, 1919 - Troops. Marines intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia.
HONDURAS, 1919 - Troops. Marines land during election campaign.
GUATEMALA, 1920 - Troops. 2-week intervention against unionists.
WEST VIRGINIA, 1920-21 - Troops, bombing. Army intervenes against mineworkers.
TURKEY, 1922 - Troops. Fought nationalists in Smyrna (Izmir).
CHINA, 1922-27 - Naval, troops/ Deployment during nationalist revolt.
HONDURAS, 1924-25/ Troops/ Landed twice during election strife.
PANAMA, 1925 - Troops / Marines suppress general strike.
CHINA, 1927-34/ Troops/ Marines stationed throughout the country.
EL SALVADOR, 1932/ Naval/ Warships sent during Faribundo Marti revolt.
WASHINGTON DC, 1932/ Troops/ Army stops WWI vet bonus protest.
WORLD WAR II, 1941-45/ Naval,troops, bombing, nuclear/ Fought Axis for 3 years; 1st nuclear war.
DETROIT, 1943/ Troops/ Army puts down Black rebellion.
IRAN, 1946/ Nuclear threat/ Soviet troops told to leave north (Iranian Azerbaijan).
YUGOSLAVIA, 1946/ Naval/ Response to shooting-down of U.S.plane.
URUGUAY, 1947/ Nuclear threat/ Bombers deployed as show of strength.
GREECE, 1947-49/ Command operation/ U.S. directs extreme-right in civil war.
CHINA, 1948-49/ Troops/ Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.
GERMANY, 1948/ Nuclear threat/ Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.
PHILIPPINES, 1948-54/ Command operation/ CIA directs war against Huk Rebellion.
PUERTO RICO, 1950/ Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats/ Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.
KOREA, 1951-53(-?)/ U.S.& South Korea fight China & North Korea to stalemate; A bomb threat in 1950, & vs. China in 1953. Still have bases.
IRAN, 1953/ Command operation/ CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.
VIETNAM, 1954/ Nuclear threat/ Bombs offered to French to use against siege.
GUATEMALA, 1954/ Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat/ CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalizes U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.
EGYPT, 1956/ Nuclear threat, troops/ Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; Marines evacuate foreigners.
LEBANON, 1958/ Troops, naval/ Marine occupation against rebels
IRAQ, 1958/ Nuclear threat/ Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.
CHINA, 1958/ Nuclear threat/ China told not to move on Taiwan isles.
PANAMA, 1958/ Troops/ Flag protests erupt into confrontation.
VIETNAM, 1960-75/ Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats/ Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; 1-2 million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in 1968 and 1969.
CUBA, 1961/ Command operation/ CIA-directed exile invasion fails.
GERMANY, 1961/ Nuclear threat/ Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.
CUBA, 1962/ Nuclear threat/ Naval Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with USSR.
LAOS, 1962/ Command operation/ Military buildup during guerrilla war.
PANAMA, 1964/ Troops/ Panamanians shot for urging canal's return.
INDONESIA, 1965/ Command operation/ Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, 1965-66/ Troops, bombing/ Marines land during election campaign.
GUATEMALA, 1966-67/ Command operation/ Green Berets intervene against rebels.
DETROIT, 1967/ Troops/ Army battles Blacks, 43 killed.
UNITED STATES, 1968/ Troops/ After King is shot; over 21,000 soldiers in cities.
CAMBODIA, 1969-75/ Bombing, troops, naval/ Up to 2 million killed in decade of bombing, starvation, and political chaos.
OMAN, 1970/ Command operation/ U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.
LAOS, 1971-73/ Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; 'carpet-bombs' countryside.
SOUTH DAKOTA, 1973/ Command operation/ Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.
MIDEAST, 1973/ Nuclear threat/ World-wide alert during Mideast War.
CHILE, 1973/ Command operation/ CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.
CAMBODIA, 1975/ Troops, bombing Gas captured ship, 28 die in copter crash.
ANGOLA, 1976-92/ Command operation/ CIA assists South African-backed rebels.
IRAN, 1980/ Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing/ 8 troops die in plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.
LIBYA, 1981/ Naval jets/ Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.
EL SALVADOR, 1981-92/ Command operation, troops, advisors/ Overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.
NICARAGUA, 1981-90/ Command operation, naval/ CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions, plants harbor mines against revolution.
LEBANON, 1982-84/ Naval, bombing, troops/ Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists, Navy bombs and shells Muslim and Syrian positions.
HONDURAS, 1983-89 - Troops. Maneuvers help build bases near borders.
GRENADA, 1983-84 - Troops, bombing. Invasion four years after revolution.
IRAN, 1984 - Jets. Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.
LIBYA, 1986 - Bombing, naval. Air strikes to topple nationalist gov't.
BOLIVIA, 1986 - Troops. Army assists raids on cocaine region.
IRAN, 1987-88 - Naval, bombing. US intervenes on side of Iraq in war.
LIBYA, 1989 - Naval jets. Two Libyan jets shot down.
VIRGIN ISLANDS, 1989 - Troops. St. Croix Black unrest after storm.
PHILIPPINES, 1989 - Jets. Air cover provided for government against coup.
PANAMA, 1989-90 - Troops, bombing. Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.
LIBERIA, 1990 - Troops. Foreigners evacuated during civil war.
SAUDI ARABIA, 1990-91 - Troops, jets. Iraq countered after invading Kuwait; 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.
IRAQ, 1990-? Bombing, troops, naval. Blockade, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq; no-fly zone, large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.
KUWAIT, 1991 - Naval, bombing, troops. Kuwait royal family returned to throne.
LOS ANGELES, 1992 - Troops. Army, Marines deployed against anti-police uprising.
SOMALIA, 1992-94 - Troops, naval, bombing. U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.
YUGOSLAVIA, 1992-94 - Naval. NATO blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.
BOSNIA, 1993-95 - Jets. bombing. No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.
HAITI, 1994-96 - Troops, naval. Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.
CROATIA, 1995 - Bombing. Krajina Serb airfields attacked before Croatian offensive.
ZAIRE (CONGO), 1996-97 - Troops. Marines at Rwandan Hutu refuge camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.
LIBERIA, 1997 - Troops. Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
ALBANIA, 1997 - Troops. Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.
SUDAN, 1998 - Missiles. Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be 'terrorist' nerve gas plant.
AFGHANISTAN, 1998 - Missiles. Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.
IRAQ, 1998-?/ Bombing, Missiles. Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.
YUGOSLAVIA, 1999 - ? Bombing, Missiles. NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of Kosovo.


(Edit - this is part of a list by Zoltan Grossman. I don't know where the original is but here's one link
http://www.redrat.net/thoughts/criminal_behavior/interventions/ )
(OVER A CENTURY OF U.S. MILITARY INTERVENTIONS
Compiled by Zoltan Grossman (revised 5.16.99)
Additional revisions (see endnote) by poster 9.30.02

The following is a partial list of U.S. military interventions from 1890 to 1999. This guide does not include demonstration duty by military police, mobilizations of the National Guard, offshore shows of naval strength, reinforcements of embassy personnel, the use of non-Defense Department personnel (such as the Drug Enforcement Agency), military exercises, non-combat mobilizations (such as replacing postal strikers), the permanent stationing of armed forces, covert actions where the U.S. did not play a command and control role, the use of small hostage rescue units, most uses of proxy troops, U.S. piloting of foreign warplanes, foreign disaster assistance, military training and advisory programs not involving direct combat, civic action programs, and many other military activities. Among sources used, besides news reports, are the Congressional Record (23 June 1969), 180 Landings by the U.S. Marine Corps History Division, Ege & Makhijani in Counterspy (July-Aug. 1982), Daniel Ellsberg in Protest & Survive, and "Instances of Use of United States Forces Abroad. 1798-1993," by Ellen C. Collier of the Library Congress Congressional Research Services.

[FubarFly]

4. Wow. Great list.

Do you have a link?

[RichM]

5. Yup, them's the very ones!!

That's a fine list, BTW. Is that the one from Z-Net?

[gbwarming]

9. The list is posted on many sites by Zoltan Grossman (edit: yes, zmag.org)

Dr Grossman's home page:
http://www.uwec.edu/grossmzc/zoltanwritings.html

http://www.counterpunch.org/zoltanbases.html

I had seen this list before and found it by googling 'us military intervention'. Lots of hits so it wasn't immediately clear which was original. I should have waited to post it until I had found the proper attribution.

[poskonig]

6. Most of those aren't interventions.

As if we intervened in the independent nations of Colorado and West Virginia. Troop deployments aren't exactly interventions either, nor are airstrikes against terrorists and rogue states.

[Terwilliger]

8. really?

I consider England dropping a bomb on Kannappolis, MD to be an intervention. I don't care why it's done.

[poskonig]

10. Okay, how is evacuating troops an intervention?

Read the list above and you'll understand what I'm getting at.

[gbwarming]

13. You're right. But strip those and the list is still long.

There are also many types of activiy that are not captured in this list - consider the military aid given in the "Plan Columbia" and drug war in general deployments to the Phillipines for training, etc...

[iangb]

16. "Evacuating troops"......?

....Whose troops? What were they doing?.......intervening?

[poskonig]

17. Evacuating civilians during the Mexican Revolution

is not an intervention, though one might be able to make a case for Idaho, which is a U.N. member.

[tom_paine]

11. While I agree about the hyperbole on the domestic incidents

The list of foreign interventions, from Iran to Chile, is very well-documented (such things will not be the purvue of our grandchildren, for the Emperor has cut off al avenues to see what the Imperial Apparatus is up to at that level -- they will NEVER see the things that we've taken for granted will come out).

I would say covertly (and not-so-covertly) toppling regimes would classify as an intervention. Particularly in Chile and Iran. Read up on it and revel, knowing that you know things that your government did in your name that people living in 2020 shall NEVER know what is occurring like that today...

[RichM]

12. The Colorado reference is interesting & related - the Ludlow massacre -

no matter if it's classified as an "intervention" or not. I read Howard Zinn's essay about it. It was the use of US armed force, & also state troopers, to kill striking miners & their families. The principal mine involved was owned by the Rockefellers. The Zinn essay quotes the NY Times of the day, in its coverage. When you look at it, you can see they were just as much on the side of big capital then, as they are today.

It's an easy jump from that kind of "intervention" to using the US military to knock off Iraq, to feed Bechtel & Halliburton; or protecting Occidental Petroleum's pipelines in Columbia.

[On the Road]

14. The Z Mag List is "Military Interventions"

as opposed to the thread here, which is "foreign interventions." Close enough to make the adjustment.

I think putting the domestic next to the foreign is unsettling and instructive. Instinctively, it's easy to keep them in different categories.

[tom_paine]

7. Yeah, like those...

Most unjustified, a few were, a few more the waters are muddied because of the ongoing Cold war and Soviet threat, which was real from a global-struggle-of-ideologies point of view, giving some justification (Note I said SOME).

A little hyperbole there including "los Angeles" among your foreign intervention list, eh?

And I'm afraid I agreed with that one, and so did a majority of people, I think.

Also, you forgot the Watts Riots
LOS ANGELES - 1964 Army used to quell Black uprising

:evilgrin:

[AndyTiedye]

15. Conspicuous by it Near Absence in the Roll of (Mostly) Dishonor

1976-1980. THANK YOU PRESIDENT CARTER!

[RichM]

18. A kick before bedtime.....

:kick:

[leftofthedial]

19. most by number were unjustified

we had a couple of whopper interventions (for example, WWII) that override the rest.