Dean and / or Dean Defence Force people...

[wheresthemind]

I am apologizing in advanced as I am tired and extremely frustrated. I realize that this does not apply to most of you, but please spread this around in your DDF forums, or you Dean mailing lists or anywhere! DISCOURAGE THIS!

I've now received "The Progressive Case for Dean' four times via e-mail, without my consent.

I'm pissed as all hell. Does Kucinich threaten you Dean folks enough that you feel the need to harass Kucinich list-serves and e-mail addresses? At the general meeting for Minnesota for Kucinich tonight almost everyone had received this e-mail, at least once, from non list-serves. Now two Dennis list-serves in a row get spammed yet again.

Let me tell you, I like Howard Dean. My first choice has been and always will be Dennis Kucinich, but my second choice had always been between Dean and Kerry. You can bet your that this IS affecting my opinion of Dean.

DOING THIS DOES NOT HELP DEAN!!!!!

One of the first things we discussed at our meetings here in Minnesota was running a positive campaign. No sleazy attacks, spamming, or anything else like that.

Please for the love of GOD, do everything in your power to stop this!

If you are having any problems with Dennis supporters harassing list-serves or e-mailing you with spam forward those e-mails to me at:
[e-mail] and I will do EVERYTHING I possibly can to put an end to it.

thanks,
Alex

The e-mail addresses of all those harassing Kucinich supporters are:

[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

[DagmarK]

1. this is kind of weird.........

DU had a new member the last couple of days with the handle JDSPatriot and you listed an email above as [e-mail]. Hmmmmmmm.

(I remember this b/c I had a bf once with the initials JDS.....so it caught my attention).

Anyways.....I don't understand WHAT you are talking about. Are you getting unsolicited emails from either DEAN or Dean supporters?

Or are you getting unsolicited emails from Kucinich supporters?

I am big into the Dean campaign, and I am pretty sure that there is no movement to hit Kucinich supporters over the head ...... that doesn't comport in the least with the whole Dean movement.

So, I am confused.

One thing I will say is that the tactics that soooooo many dems and all the repukes are using to turn people off from Dean are far and wide, and quite creative.....so.....please use much discrimination when ascribing blame for this. It could be any number of camps doing it.

Again, I don't understand what's what or who did what exactly......

[wheresthemind]

5. sorry... its been a long night!

Dennis is coming on Saturday and we're working like crazy!

We keep getting targeted, AS Kucinich supporters, with e-mails like the "Progressive Case for Dean" or a couple others. We get them over and over again with people e-mailing us individually or joining our list-serves and spamming.

If you are active in the Dean campaign could you put it out there in all your circles that doing things like this hurt Dean more then help him. Some people out there are just idiots and might not realize the damage they are doing. The part at the end was an offer so that I don't sound hypocritical. That if anything similar ever happens with a Dennis supporter to e-mail me and I will try and take care of it.

[DagmarK]

7. Okay, I am clicking to what you are saying......

So alleged Dean supporters are slamming known Kucinich supporters.

GEE.........I really want to emphasize the fact that you should really use increased caution when assuming that because the emails are about Dean that they are FROM Dean supporters. And this is why.

Who are the two most progressive leading dem candidates and who are NOT DLC? And who are BOTH getting attacked left and right by the DLC (directly and from the DLC cabal's supporters)? And who are both getting A LOT of attention from the people because of their anti-bush and anti-war stances and anti-corporatism stances?

The answer is: DEAN and KUCINICH

And there are A LOT of supporters for both those camps who would be truly be happy to have eithe Dean or Kucinich win the nom. Heck.....lots of people in both camps would love to see a Dean/Kucninich or a Kucinich/Dean pres/vp ticket.

So.......isn't this soooooo clever?!! I could very easily see a little psysop to try to get Dean and Kucinich people to go at each other. Heck.....look at how you, yourself, feel about this...you are ready to strangle Dean!

So...my suspicion and gut tells me that the political sentiments of the persons sending all these emails out are perhaps in the Kerry or Lieberman camps. Or a la Rove. One of the three.......and you've caught your burglar.

[wheresthemind]

9. you could very well be right...

but just to be safe I ask of all Dean supporters to discourage this whenever possible. Put the word out on all the list-serves, forums, etc that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.

I have already done the same as far as the Kucinich circles I am in.

[w4rma]

2. The Progressive Case for Dean by Nico Pitney

Published on Monday, August 11, 2003 by CommonDreams.org

I passionately supported the Greens in 2000 and 2002. I traveled 125 miles to see Dennis Kucinich speak when he came to Los Angeles in May, and had the pleasure of introducing him to a crowd of several hundred when he visited Santa Barbara recently. Kucinich is a guiding light in Congress and, of the nine Democratic presidential contenders, his views most closely mirror my own.

Yet I won't be voting for Kucinich in the Democratic primaries, nor will I vote Green in the general elections. My support will go to Howard Dean.

Yes, I've read the unfavorable commentaries on Howard Dean by writers whose opinions I greatly respect, like Norman Solomon and Alexander Cockburn. And yes, I know that I disagree with some critical components of Dean's platform. Progressives should be well aware that they're going to disagree on a range of issues with every individual who has a chance at being in the White House two years from now. Our choice is not between Howard Dean and the-even-better-candidate-who-has-a-shot-at-winning-the-Democratic-nomination-and-defeating-George-Bush; that other candidate doesn't exist. Neither Kucinich nor Al Sharpton nor Carol Moseley Braun nor any Green will be President. Progressives should incorporate these realities into their electoral strategy, however disappointing they may be.
…
Nico Pitney is a student activist based in southern California. E-mail [e-mail] with questions, comments, or to receive a shortened version of this column.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0811-09.htm
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=18673

[wheresthemind]

8. now why'd you do that...

you want me to bloody go crazy!

[w4rma]

11. to provide context (n/t)

[CarlBallard]

3. If you're worried about unsolisited emails

You might want to get their addresses off of a high trafic sight.

[wheresthemind]

6. they're harrassing us....

so I could care less!

[CWebster]

15. harrassing?

Sounds like the author want to desiminate his views, what has that got to do with Dean personally or his campaign?

Aren't progressives entitled to express their views or is it a rigid and insulated world view that can't stand up to a challenge?

[northernsoul]

20. how is trying to win your support harassment?

I've been listening to progressive complain about being ignored by the Democratic party for years, and now there are several candidates actively seeking progressive support - I'd take this as a good sign. You can always delete the emails if you don't want to read them.

[wheresthemind]

21. uhhhhh

Yes, but receiving the SAME e-mail 4 times, twice of which was on list-serves specifically for electing Dennis Kucinich.

Not to mention the free Yahoo e-mail addresses. You register a bunch of those if you plan to spam because you can only send out so many e-mails per day on one account.

WE first got it from JSD patriot who targeted our individual e-mails, maybe off the website. It wasn't a personal e-mail, all of them started like :

"As a serious Kucinich fan, I ask you to read this article. I think it's very worthwhile..."

Freedom of speech does not apply to list-serves. When people sign up for our Kucinich list-serves with free yahoo accounts and the first thing they post is a pro-dean anti-dennis article you know they're not a progressive there to talk about Dennis.

[poskonig]

24. That's always a good sign.

When someone could not care less, then we are in trouble. :silly:

[w13rd0]

4. Given the similarity of the first three email addresses...

...I'd say it was the same person. If you've gotten repeated messages from one of the aliases, forward it on to [e-mail] or [e-mail]. I'll echo the sentiments of the above poster also. There's been much funny stuff going on (the "blogwars" at Kerry and Dean's blogs for instance), and I suspect a good many of the perps are Bush supporters...

[w4rma]

10. Why not just *ASK* Nico Pitney not to post his editorial to the list?

I passionately supported the Greens in 2000 and 2002. I traveled 125 miles to see Dennis Kucinich speak when he came to Los Angeles in May, and had the pleasure of introducing him to a crowd of several hundred when he visited Santa Barbara recently. Kucinich is a guiding light in Congress and, of the nine Democratic presidential contenders, his views most closely mirror my own.
…
Nico Pitney is a student activist based in southern California. E-mail [e-mail] with questions, comments, or to receive a shortened version of this column.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0811-09.htm

As for the [e-mail] addy, I have no clue.

Anyway, I don't see what the problem is with someone posting this article to a Kucinich or Green listsev. It's from a former Green, who has an interesting POV, whose audience would be Greens and Kucinich supporters.

[DagmarK]

12. These folks are spamming the hell out this guy and others.......

That's totally uncool......

And I have no doubt that they are NOT from the Dean camp.

Hell......Dean has 282,000 people on his listserv. We have far more effective and positive ways to get our message out.

This is the work of DLC assholes......a la John Kerry. Just up to their dirty tricks again.

Karma is a bitch Kerry people!!!!!! I can't wait to hear Kerry's concession speech in May! Don't you guys get it? The movement to oust Bush is all about cleaning up the white house -- not installing another dirty bastard!

Sorry...I lose it periodically in regard to the dirty DLCers.

[w4rma]

13. [e-mail] is the author of the editorial (n/t)

[DagmarK]

14. Ohhhhhhhhhhhh............

click! sorry!

[sangha]

18. R U still sure it's not from Dean people?

.

[sangha]

16. They spammed Kerry's blog

According to Maureen Dowd (not the most credible source)

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/13/opinion/13DOWD.html

"...When the Kerry camp started the blog last week, rambunctious Dean supporters flooded the Kerry message boards with taunts. One Dean fan tallied all of Mr. Kerry's missed Senate votes this year...."

[wheresthemind]

22. oops

er hit the wrong reply!

[Khephra]

17. Funny

Yesterday there was a conversation going on one of the Dean boards about how the Kucinich campaign is spamming people.

Personally, I like Dean and Kucinich both, so I hope both camps (if it is both camps) stop this.

[Khephra]

19. One thing to add

It's EASY to put other people's emails on maillists, so some of what you think is spam (from any candidate) may be the result of someone else putting you on a email list, and not the fault of ANY candidate or their supporters.

[wheresthemind]

23. well I'm offering my support to you...

as a Kucinich campaign representative.

If you ever get any unsolicited e-mails from seeming Kucinich spammers forward them to me and I will do my best to stop it. I've also sent out messages discouraging this behavior. I will be letting National know that it might be a problem.

I only hope that you guys do the same.

[CWebster]

27. I wouldn't mind e-mail from Kucinich

We are all on the same side, right?

[MGKrebs]

25. I will pass it on here in Georgia.

But in Georgia, as in most other states at this time, there is almost zero support or coordination with the national campaign. I doubt the national campaign is doing this, but it could be some overzealous local supporters somewhere.

I agree that if it is coming from supporters, it is bad. We just had a teleconference last night about fundraising, and we were very careful to discuss a plan to prevent this sort of thing in our broadcasting, although I will admit that one participant with influence did not seem too concerned with it.

Do you mind if I include your original post in a message to some who might be able to help?

[wheresthemind]

28. Abosolutly!

and good luck with the campaign, we were at the same place you are a very short time ago!

[poskonig]

26. Keep in mind, there is a lot of freeping going on.

Sure, there is probably a segment of supporters in each camp that are over-zealous, but a lot of it is likely Republican-instigated too.