What happens if Gray Davis RESIGNS ???

[jjsocrates]

Saw it on Bartcop...

A scenario: the day before the election, the poll numbers show a much greater than 50% chance that Gray Davis will lose the recall question.

So Gray Davis RESIGNS his post, giving his lieutenant governor his post, and effectively:
1) Keeping the CA governorship in the hands of the Democrats
2) Giving the Repubs a big old $hitburger

[mjb4]

1. WRONG!

recall is in effect..PERIOD! It is called a coup.

[Snellius]

7. How do they get rid of someone who's already gone?

How can they recall Davis if he has already resigned? And isn't the vote to replace the governor dependent on his being recalled? I've heard that, according to the California Sec't of State's website (can't find a link), the recall would still go forward, but it doesn't make much sense, which means it may very well be sent back to the California Supreme Court.

[slackmaster]

22. If Davis resigns Bustamante will be a substitute Bobo doll

The recall will proceed. The only certainty of a Davis resignation will be that Davis will no longer be governor.

[Nederland]

15. Unfortunately No

Its not a coup. A coup implies an illegal seizure of power. The reality is that the California Constitution makes this idiocy completely legal. I'm sure that both sides will move to change the Constitution after this is over, but this recall vote can't be stopped.

[niceypoo]

2. Davis has done nothing to resign for.

the GOP are crybabies. Rule by tantrum

[molly]

3. Even if he resigns now, it's too late - the recall will still

take place.

[Midwest_Doc]

4. Lt,. Gov. becomes governor and the election proceeds

Bustamente would be the incumbent during the recall election.

[bryant69]

5. If this is correct

Then Davis should consider resigning now for the good of the party--the incumbent power won't do him too much good the day of the election, but if he has a couple of weeks to look like a governor--could make a differnce.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[pansypoo53219]

6. why should he hand

the repugnicans exactly what they want?

[bryant69]

10. What the Republicans really want

Is control over the state of CA. If at the end of this situation we have Bustemonte in the State capital that's a win.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Midwest_Doc]

8. Good point, however -

If Davis resigns NOW, the republicans have time to hamstring Sacramento and blame it on Bustamente. Gov. Davis should resign no earlier than several days before the election, do a mea culpa, and urge his supporters to vote for Bustamente. Getting out the vote will be a BIG problem for Democrats if Davis is seen as a certain loser. IMHO this stragey could energize the Democrats and help get the vote out.

[shimmergal]

21. Question.

Is the recall question worded as asking if
1) Gray Davis should be recalled as governor of California, or

2) The governor (no name stated) should be recalled?

If it's the first, how can they square the circle? i.e. the ballot won't be speaking to a real issue?

If it's the second, couldn't this strategy be lengthened to a rapid-fire series of gubernatorial resignations?

I'm not advocating doing this, but pointing out some very serious logic flaws. If the Democrats were willing to think out-of-the-box on this, it could drive the coup-makers up the wall. Just like the Dem. legislators in Texas are doing in the fight against arbitrary redistricting.

[0007]

9. What if Grey Davis dies?

Wouldn't that void the recall?

[slackmaster]

23. Who's "Grey" Davis?

n/t

[Shrek]

11. This is covered in California's election laws

11302. If a vacancy occurs in an office after a recall petition is filed against the vacating officer, the recall election shall nevertheless proceed. The vacancy shall be filled as provided by law, but any person appointed to fill the vacancy shall hold office only until a successor is selected in accordance with Article 4 (commencing with Section 11360) or Article 5 (commencing with Section 11380), and the successor qualifies for that office.

This is available online here.

[PlanetBev]

12. Gray is not going to resign

This man is like a salmon swimming upstream to spawn. Nothing is going to stop him from fighting until the last dog dies. He is a survivor. I sincerely doubt he'll resign.

[Terwilliger]

13. maybe folks will stop asking this question now

maybe!

[slackmaster]

20. No, they'll never stop

I wonder who started this stupid idea in the first place. Was it Rush Limburger?

[shimmergal]

24. OK, maybe this answers my question above, but

I _still_ don't see the logic in it. The initial recall is directed against a specific official, but whoever occupies the office at the time has to be voted _for_ or _against_ in it???

Why not just have a rolling recall arrangement with an election every two months to keep or force out the office-holder? Makes about as much sense.

[Terwilliger]

25. The recall is of an office...not the official

Whether that makes sense or not, that's what it is.

[Walt Starr]

41. That's a legal grey area

The reasoning is, there would be no vacancy, however, the person being recalled would no longer be governor, ergo, the recall election is moot.

The reason you could not consider there to be a vacancy is because the constitution requires the Lt. Governor to take the place of the governor should he be unable to fulfill his duties or resigns.

This is one for the courts.

[robbedvoter]

14. Bustamante governs - until the recall. Did you want Clinton to resign too?

Should have Gore conceded day 1 (as Robert Reich et al were clamoring). The thugs are bringing the pitchforks and torches and we are supposed to give away the store? Some people here watch too much TV. Try to use your own good brains and ponder the following facts:
- It was Enron that created the fiscal crisis in Cali
-It's the legislarure that is responsible for the budget (not Davis)
- It was Pete Wilson (arnie's guy) who deregulated utilities (Enron)
-It was dick&bush who refused to cap prices on Enron theft
-it was Davis who stood up to Cheney & created a popular movement ("voluntary blackout") against Enron
- It was Davis who asked FERC to investigate Enron
- Arnie is an immigrant who hates other immigrants (one of his few votes was Prop 187). He WILL NOT change parties
- Arnie, Rove + Kenny met in May 2001 - Cali fleecing time

[thebeaglehaslanded]

17. Exactly, Robbedvoter! If Californians would read this list,

perhaps they would see where the state's problems came from and realize that Gray Davis was caught in a bad moment of fallout from failed Repuke policies and leadership. Unfortunately, California can no longer recall Pete Wilson, and Davis is being blamed for the sins of his predecesors.

[RummyTheDummy]

31. The guy was just throwing it out for discussion.

Don't take it so personally.

[dolstein]

16. Well, there won't be any more "what happens if Davis resigns" posts

which is almost enough to make it all worthwhile.

Sorry, but there have already been plenty of posts on this topic. I can't believe you've missed them all.

In any event, you have been badly misinformed -- the recall has been certified and it will go forward regardless of whether or not Gray Davis is still in office when the recall vote takes place. If Davis resigns prior to the recall, Lt. Governor Cruz Bustamente will become governor, at least temporarily. Some have speculated that Davis resigning will take the steam out of the recall movement, but now that Ah-nuld is in the race, I think that's wishful thinking. The Republicans see this as a chance to elect a Republican governor on the cheap, and they'll go after Bustamente just like they've gone after Davis.

[robbedvoter]

18. Here's another pic for recall fans (from the Onion):

[slackmaster]

19. ROTFLMAOKAS!

This kind of thread has become a new genre.

[MGKrebs]

26. I've missed all of these previous threads too.

So let me get this straight, if Davis resigns, but CA votes to NOT recall anyway, it doesn't matter? Whoever wins on question #2 becomes the Governor?

[Shrek]

27. Here are some previous threads

Should Davis Resign to stop the Republicans ?

What if Davis resigned? - Calif recall off?

What happens if Davis resigns?

If Gray Davis were to resign..

Why doesn't Gray Davis jus resign?

Should Gray Davis resign?

What should Gray Davis Do?

Grey Davis Should Resign

What if Gray Davis Resigns.

Dumb Question of the day: What if Gray Davis just resigns?

Perhaps Davis should step down

[slackmaster]

28. Thanks DDIQ for posting that list!

Excellent.

[Romberry]

29. Bartcop is sadly not the place for reliable informed opinion

Don't get me wrong, I read Bartcop and often like what he has to say but the old boy has a bad (and getting worse) habit of posting sh*t that just isn't so. See his "Cuba" rant which seems to ignore the entire history of Castro's rise to power and why a ragtag rebel force was able to generate enough support to overthrow the well funded Batista regime.)

Bart spoke without knowing on the recall. If someone is going to hold themselves out as a media leader getting out the "truth", it would be good if they would at least spend ten minutes finding out what the truth is.

If Davis resigns, the recall still goes forward.

[MGKrebs]

30. Yeah, but what does that MEAN?

"If Davis resigns, the recall still goes forward."

OK, I've now looked at all of the previous threads. Here is the closest I can find to an answer (my comments in italics):

"Under the section of election code cited, the Lt. Governor will be acting Goveror until the recall, when the winner of the replacement election assumes duties as governor permanently if the recall question passes. Most bleieve that in this case, the acting governor will re-assume his duties as Lt. Governor.

"If the recall question fails, the Lt. Governor assumes the Governor's office permanently."OK, so wouldn't Davis resigning be a good thing then?

"Once the recall petition signatures were verified there is no way to stop the recall. If Davis resigns, Lt. Gov. Bustamante will assume the duties of the governor and the recall election will proceed. If Davis then happens to WIN the recall, he would not be able to take back his resignation" Yeah, but then what?

"2)If he resigns: If Davis resigns after "the recall petition is filed," the lieutenant governor would become governor until the recall election. If voters defeat the recall, Bustamante would remain governor. If voters approve the recall, Bustamante would give up the office to the person selected in the replacement election.So Bustamante becomes the Governor? Hey, go for the sure thing and don't roll the dice!

[Shrek]

32. It's not necessarily a sure thing.

If Davis resigns then Bustamante has to win a majority of the vote to remain governor because of the way the recall vote is structured.

But if he runs as a replacement candidate, the threshold for winning could be much lower because he would need only a plurality of widely dispersed votes.

Edit : spelling

[Romberry]

33. Actually, if Davis resigns...

...Bustamante can NOT run in the recall. Once Bustamante takes the oath of office following Davis resignation, he becomes ineligible to run as a candidate in the recall election.

[Shrek]

34. That's the point I was trying to make.

I guess I wasn't clear enough.

If Davis resigns, then Bustamente needs a majority to remain governor. If he runs as a replacement candidate, and Davis is recalled, then he needs only a plurality.

So his chances appear to be better if Davis doesn't resign.

[MGKrebs]

35. A majority of what vote?

He's not the subject of the recall, so it's not a majority of the first question on the ballot.

If we agree that Bustamante can't run as a replacement if Davis resigns, then what "majority" are we talking about? Some future election? A special election or the next regular election? If that's the case, I say fine, then feinstein or somebody can run without guilt at that time.

Sorry if I appear dense, I just haven't seen a clear answer to this despite the multiple threads and invitations to look at them.

[Shrek]

36. I'll give it a shot.

But I'm no expert at election law so take it with a whole box of salt.

Assumption : Davis resigns as governor, and Bustamante assumes the governorship in accordance with the state constitution.

But state law says that the recall election will still proceed. As I understand it, Bustamante cannot appear on the replacement ballot if he's governor. So the only way he can remain governor is to defeat the recall -- and that requires a majority. If that happens, Davis would not be allowed to "un-resign" so Bustamante would remain the governor by default.

But if the recall is not defeated, then the candidate with a plurality of the votes becomes governor. That's why I think Bustamante's chances might be better if Davis does not resign (and there's always the chance that Davis could defeat the recall on his own -- it's certainly not a fait accompli).

However, one could also make the case that a Davis resignation would take the steam out of the recall effort, thus greatly enhancing Bustamante's chances of defeating it. After all, with Davis gone, what motivation would people have to vote in favor of a recall?

[MGKrebs]

37. Ahhh, now I see. Thank you. But

this is too bizarre! If Davis resigns, the recall then is effectively about Bustamante! If the recall is defeated, he stays, if the recall passes, he's gone (since he can't be a candidate)!

And if Davis were to resign late enough in the race, they wouldn't be able to get Bustamante's name off of the ballot, so then IF he got the most votes anyway, he still couldn't take the office!

So, he need to get 50% against, well, nobody, or a majority against everybody. Too weird.

Did Rod Serling ever do comedy? HeHe.

[slackmaster]

38. No, Bustamante can be on the ballot even if GD resigns

The only otherwise eligible California citizen who cannot appear in the list of replacement candidates is Gray Davis.

[Shrek]

39. Now that makes a little more sense.

So in the event of a Davis resignation, Bustamante would actually have a couple of ways to remain governor:

1. If the recall fails, he's governor because Davis resigned and he's next in the line of succession.

2. If the recall succeeds, he can remain governor by garnering a plurality of votes.

Correct?

[slackmaster]

40. Exactly correct

As I understand it.

The only thing that would change with a Davis resignation is that Davis could not be governor even if the recall fails. Once you resign you cannot un-resign.