High Road, No; Gutter, Yes....

[MrBenchley]

Since we've been subjected to RKBA threads about what a swell lot of polite intellectuals frequent the cesspool "thehighroad.org," I thought I would share with the board the musings of a bunch of these noble sportsmen showing their true colors, as sent to me by an alert fellow DUer....

"Kicked off Democraticunderground for the 9th time...My wolf-in-sheep's-clothing act gets better every time out....They're terrified of debate...that's so funny...makes me feel good...how else would you get away with proliferating liberal nonsense...My favorite screename I came up with was "left of stalin"...After hanging out with the DU crowd, I'd suggest a good shower at a biohazard facility..."

A bit more of the enlightenment from this intellectual haven: "That would lull them into thinking you're one of the "progressives" while actually showing a wee bit of true colors...Reading that message board is like watching a political debate between semi-literate 4-year-olds...."shallow-thinker" "blind-sheep" either one should get you appointed to a "moderator" status fairly quickly on those liberal lemming sites....Demorats have had that problem for a very long time now. They would dearly love to have their socialist utopia, but they know they must make their way through the intransigent partisans to get there..."

And most hilarious of all: "...at least we don't have to hide "underground" from the light of day."

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33227&highlight=%2ADemocratic+Underground%2A

[demsrule4life]

1. And none of them

throw around childish insults like you do.

[MrBenchley]

3. Boo hoo hoo

Sounds like I had this bunch pegged correctly.

[demsrule4life]

5. Few times I have been there I have

seen several people state that they were liberals, and not once did anyone one throw insults at them.

[MrBenchley]

7. Whoop-dee-doo!

I'm SO impressed...

[Walter_Bowman]

39. Who cares how impressed YOU are? It's not like

you frequent THR or something. :-)

[MrBenchley]

40. No, I stay here in DU with decent people

who don't have to troll sites under false pretenses...

[Walter_Bowman]

41. I'm a THR AND DU user, and I'm a liberal.

So?

[MrBenchley]

48. Whoop-dee-frigging-doo.

I bet the guy who calls himself "leftofstalin" is even more impressed than I am...since you'd need an electron microscope to measure my interest in your claim.

[Walter_Bowman]

59. Then why

are you replying? :-)

[DavidMS]

19. Disagree...

I have seen some Randites on THR throwing around the term "statist," which for most liberals is a fighting word.

But I have never seen a self-identified liberal harrased any more than a than what we do to some DINOs. It seems that many on THR like it that liberals share their favorate hobby and also like the political cover it gives (how often does legislation opposed by both the NRA and ACLU get passed?). Just like how we love how the Log Cabin Republicans make the Rethugs look like blockheads (when they are not engaging in foot worship of Bu$h).

[iverglas]

2. yeah ...

I for one sure can't tell who they are. Noooo ... the poster with the count of 3 who appears when next I drop by, at the same time as some other poster with a count of 33 disappears ... noooo ... I would never suspect that someone is someone else. I'm a moron. Like you, right?

I go through spates of alerting, and get responses like you were right, that was the same one!

But I feel kinda the way I do when neighbour # 47 starts up with the illegal front-yard parking or what have you. Damn, even though these people interfere in my enjoyment of life, I have a job, I have other things to do, and I'm neither the zoning enforcement officer nor the board moderator. Why should I have to be spending my time reporting stuff?

But what the heck, I suppose it's time for another spate. I suppose it must be a very simple thing to check those IP address thingies ...

Ah, surprised but never disappointed. That anyone would find this dishonest, bad faith, fascistic behaviour to be a productive, or even entertaining, use of their time.

That anyone would lie and lie and lie like that. Hey, this is my chance! I can maybe call some somebodies here liars without calling somebody here a liar -- because if s/he wanted to tattle on me for telling the truth in that respect, s/he would have to out him/herself as a banned personage ... as a liar!

Liars liars liars. Ha. Okay, enough of *my* time wasted.

.

[MrBenchley]

4. Amazing, isn't it?

Again, if the RKBA cause wasn't rotten from stem to stern, they wouldn't have to resort to these tactics, any more than Mary Rosh would have to swoon over Professor Lott and his phony statistics.

[Walter_Bowman]

6. You do understand that there is quite a few liberals on THR, right?

MicroBalrog,
Mark Tyson,
SkunkApe and some others spring to mind.

[Walter_Bowman]

8. And here's a question for extra points

What book does the name Walter Bowman come from?

(clue: The author unsuccessfully ran for Congress as a Democrat).

[Walter_Bowman]

13. I suspect nobody knows the answer... (nt)

nt

[MrBenchley]

14. I suspect nobody gives a crap, either (n/t)

[Walter_Bowman]

34. there's nothing good about "not giving a crap" (nt)

nt

[MrBenchley]

9. Yeah, surrrrrrre...

That's why they're making up nine and ten handles and discussing how to sneak on under false pretenses....they're SO liberal!

[Walter_Bowman]

10. I don't remember the above-mentioned people participating in "sneaking"

But, yeah, I am a liberal.

And BTW, "liberal" =/= "agrees with 100% of what Mr. Benchley says".

[MrBenchley]

11. Gee. Maybe liberal means

"swallows crap from the AEI, the Washington Times, Newsmax and World Nut Daily..."

Ya think?

Hand us a really BIG laugh.

[Walter_Bowman]

12. What is the AEI?

I agree with you one the WT, NM, and WND - they are total and absolute crap.

Your point is?

[MrBenchley]

15. American Enterprise Insitute

the far right wing think tank that today employs Mary Rosh...

[Walter_Bowman]

16. what do they do except that?

I have nfi.

[MrBenchley]

17. Ask over at the High Road (n/t)

[Walter_Bowman]

18. hey, I just asked a question!

why be so pi$$$ed?

[Terran]

20. Microbalrog

I can't speak to the others, but if microbalrog is a "liberal", why has he been banned three times from DU? We don't ban liberals except in the most extreme cases of disruption and/or rule breaking. If any of these people were liberals or progressives, they wouldn't have to sneak around on DU.

Dirk

[acerbic]

23. If my memory serves, that "liberal"

...e.g. advertised websites selling "Nuke Berkeley" etc. crap intended to "throw liberals everywhere into a fit".

[Walter_Bowman]

36. Context!

What was the context!

[Walter_Bowman]

33. Because some people (no finger-pointing) define "liberal"

as "someone who disagrees with me", I presume.

[Mairead]

31. I'm not sure what 'the RKBA cause' is, to you, but

I'm very much in favor of the whole Bill Of Rights, including the RKBA. It doesn't seem 'rotten' to me at all. :shrug:

[MrBenchley]

32. Let's see...

The NRA has, since the early 1960s deliberately launched a disinformation campaign pretending that the Second Amendment" guarantees every American yokel the arsenal of his wet dreams. (Worth noting that if that were true, that would make every gun control law in the country unConstitutional. How many gun control laws have been challenged by the NRA on second amendment grounds, do you suppose? None. None as in not any, no where, no time, no how.)

The gun lobby and the RKBA crowd has launched a statewide blitz to pass idiotic CCW laws, so that neurotics, lunatics and other specimens can carry concealed weapons in the name of "public safety." The spurious claim they make is "More guns/less crime," based on "research" by a crackpot pseudoscientist named John Lott, who was paid by the gun industry through a foundation controlled by the maker of Winchester ammo. Among Lott's other "scientific findings" are that minority police officers cause crime and that rich people ought to get lighter sentences than poor people for criminal acts. His most ardent admirer, a former "student" who has published favorable reviews of his book, turns out to be Lott himself posing as a young woman. He can not produce the survey data he claims to have based his gun research on, and he cannot even prove that the students he claimed helped him with that research exist.

Take a look at the two major gun bills the GOP are currently trying to ram through Congress...one would make the corrupt gun industry immune from civil liability for its actions...and the other would prevent the already toothless BATF from inspecting gun dealers, and exempt those dealers from having to account for the weapons they sell.

Want more?

[Mairead]

62. I still don't think I understand

Do you object to private firearm ownership in general? To particular firearms? To the existence of the NRA? To their lobbying? To all of the above? To something completely different?

[MrBenchley]

65. To answer your questions

I do not object to private firearm ownership with sane controls...but I doin't pretend that it is a constitutional right. As the founding fathers said and the courts have upheld, the second amendment refers to serving in a state militia of the sort that have evolved into the National Guard.

I don't see any reason to allow loonies to have assault rifles, 50 caliber cannons, or any of the other crap that gun nuts are always creaming their jeans over. I also don't see any reason not to require smart guns be sold.

I consider the NRA long ago made itself an object that deserves the same scorn reserved for the Aryan Nation or Stormfront.

[Mairead]

66. Ah. Thank you.

You're wrong, of course, about it not being a Constitutional right. The entire body of evidence from the Founding says that the Founders were clear that every citizen-in-good-standing in a free state has the right to own military weapons for the purpose of maintaining that freedom. The case most frequently cited by people making the error you make (Miller) was actually all about whether a sawed-off shotgun was suited to infantry use and thus Constitutionally protected. In the '30s, it wasn't. Today the question might be decided differently.

[Walter_Bowman]

70. Bravo!

I couldn't have put it better myself.

[MrBenchley]

74. Rubbish

"The case most frequently cited by people making the error you make (Miller) was actually all about whether a sawed-off shotgun was suited to infantry use and thus Constitutionally protected. In the '30s, it wasn't. Today the question might be decided differently."
Sure....why do you think the GOP is trying to pack the courts with right winng loonies?

But in fact, I made no error. The error is swallowing the NRA's dishonest revisionist history, as you have.

[Walter_Bowman]

77. Did you actually READ miller, the full case?

I have, and he/she is right.

[MrBenchley]

80. Of course I did

And my interpretation is 100% correct.

[Walter_Bowman]

88. Doesn't look like it. (nt)

nt

[MrBenchley]

90. To who? Somebody from highroadrage.org?

Hand us another BIG laugh.

[Walter_Bowman]

96. Wait till I climb back on my chair..

I'm ROFLMAO

[gratuitous]

79. Well shoot!

No pun intended. It looks like this week's Friday column practically writes itself based on this inane thread! I think you owe a debt of gratitude, Mr. Benchley.

[MrBenchley]

84. They sure do sound like my friend, don't they?

Ever see this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/bob/01/2001_bob_02.html

[Mairead]

95. If you can't cite text, why should anyone listen to you?

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=307&invol=174

The finding in Miller is pellucid.

"The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. 'A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline.' And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time."

"In all the colonies, as in England, the militia system was based on the principle of the assize of arms. This implied the general obligation of all adult male inhabitants to possess arms, and, with certain exceptions, to <307 U.S. 174, 180> cooperate in the work of defence.' 'The possession of arms also implied the possession of ammunition, and the authorities paid quite as much attention to the latter as to the former.' 'A year later (1632) it was ordered that any single man who had not furnished himself with arms might be put out to service, and this became a permanent part of the legislation of the colony (Massachusetts)."

[HFishbine]

25. They're getting smarter

waiting until they amass 130 posts or so, then start showing their true colors; posting "liberal" posts along the way. The latest uses a dem president as his moniker. Funny how smell can travel over the internet.

edit: spelling

[MrBenchley]

28. Even so...

Would honest people who had actual fact on their side have to act like that?

Of course not.

[MrBenchley]

30. Some aren't waiting quite so long.....

premature e-jerk-ulation? An itchy trigger finger?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php#3897
Walter_Bowman (38 posts) Wed Aug-13-03 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #108
112. Cry me a river...
this guy killed less people than Ted Kennedy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=3751&mesg_id=3751
556 (13 posts) Wed Aug-13-03 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #4
54. Just like..............
CNN and the New York Times.

[Walter_Bowman]

38. Why don't you put it context,

Instead of spreading senseless nonsense?

[MrBenchley]

42. Happy to....

Elsewhere I started a thread called "The RKBA crowd in action" detailing the amazing adventures of a Maryland lunatic who was arrested for owning a small arsenal of illegal machine guns, some kept loaded and in easy reach of his children. Said nutcase had been in the news last year when he was mixed up in a "murder for hire" scheme by his employer at the time, a cult leader who claimed to be a messiah from outer space.

Several RKBA "enthusiasts" leapt to this whack-job's defense, including our boy with the quote seen here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=3498&mesg_id=3498

[Walter_Bowman]

46. WRONG QUOTE ALERT! :-)

". Said nutcase had been in the news last year when he was mixed up in a "murder for hire" scheme by his employer at the time"

It was that "nutcase" that stopped the scheme by reporting it.

[MrBenchley]

49. He was mixed up in a murder for hire scheme

"It was that "nutcase" that stopped the scheme by reporting it."
Wow!! So he didn't actually carry out the hit?!?

What a humanitarian! He's a regular Albert Schweitzenegger!

[Walter_Bowman]

56. AND stopped that other guy

from hiring others.

[MrBenchley]

57. After turning down the job himself

Mother Teresa, move the fuck over....we got a new RKBA candidate for sainthood!

[Walter_Bowman]

68. St. Possenti is already there. (nt)

nt

[Diesle]

21. .

What really sets The High Road appart from DU is that they DO allow spirited debate between folks of all political color. The common thread being the appreciation for the validity of the 2nd Amend. and the joy of the shooting sports.

Truely masterfull thought evolves as a byproduct of conflict.

Diesle

[MrBenchley]

22. Yeah, we can tell....

The guy who called himself "left of stalin" seemed like a jenius with a capital "J".

"The common thread being the appreciation for the validity of the 2nd Amend."
Actually, the common thread is either the gullibility or the dishonesty to pretend the NRA's dishonest revisionism is the correct interpretation of the Second amendent...

[gratuitous]

24. Geez Mr. Benchley

If you need some help, just message me.

Oh wait. I can see that you've pretty much overmatched the lot of them all by your lonesome. Carry on. I'm gonna go make some popcorn and find a good seat.

[MrBenchley]

29. Hey...

Feel free to join in....the more the merrier.

[Walter_Bowman]

37. Yeah, join in!

Mr. Benchley is outnumbered and outsmarted! :-)

[MrBenchley]

44. Like the man said...

I've "pretty much overmatched the lot of them"...

Go cry about it to roadrage.com. I'm sure "shallow-thinker" and "blind-sheep" will sympathize...

[Walter_Bowman]

45. Overmatched?

The fight ain't over yet. :-)

[MrBenchley]

50. Hahahahahahahaha....

So tell us, what name are you going to use when you sneak back on here next time? : - )

[Walter_Bowman]

54. Learn to use smileys.

No spaces in 'em, see?

:-)
:-)
:P
:P

[patdem]

60. Honey, you do not know to whom you speak...Mr. Benchley will NOT be

outsmarted!

As for more guns equal less crime? Why are there more murders in the countries that have more guns? England has fewer murders per capita, as does every western country with strict gun laws. They have less crime and fewer prisoners per capita than America. Only Russia and China can compet with our prison population?

[MrBenchley]

61. Thanks...

There's 30,000 gun deaths a year...and a corrupt industry lobby that invests millions to keep us in the line of fire.

[Walter_Bowman]

69. Muhahaha!

So why is it that back when they had no gun control, they still had less violence than the US?

BTW - Over 70% of US prison population, IIRC, is there for victimless crimes.

[gratuitous]

63. No thanks

Mr. B is doing his usual outstanding job, and your run-on sentences, cryptic half comments and total avoidance of anything resembling a fact make my head hurt too much.

But it's fun watching a battle of wits when one of the participants (that would be you, Walter_Bowman) is fighting with only "half" and "nit" in his arsenal.

{Goes back to munching popcorn.}

[MrBenchley]

64. Check out the "RKBA crowd in action" thread

down in J/PS for a real laugh...

[Walter_Bowman]

71. Blah, blah, blah

Please refer me to one place in this thread where Mr. B has a fact (or a clue).

[gratuitous]

73. Thanks for proving my point

See, Walter_Bowman, I was talking about you, not Mr. Benchley. You've been tap dancing all over this thread, avoiding direct answers, and making posts like "Read the Second Amendment" as though that's the total sum and substance of your argument.

I find that to be . . . lacking. And though it may be uncharitable, I have extended my judgment about your argument to your intellect because of it.

[Walter_Bowman]

75. I can't prove your point.

you don't have one.

[Walter_Bowman]

35. READ the second amenment

Come back here when you realize what "being necessary" means.

[MrBenchley]

43. Been there, done that

Now go back to roadrage.com and snivel to "leftofstalin" about how unfair it is that some people actually are smart enough not to fall for the NRA's lies.

[Walter_Bowman]

47. I see you're incapable of anything but insults, otherwise,

you would have tried to disprove my argument or answer my question.

[MrBenchley]

52. So tell us

If the NRA's position ISN'T hooey, why have they NEVER sued to overturn a gun control law anywhere on second amendment grounds?

[Walter_Bowman]

53. The have sued several times, the current lawsuit they're backing

is the Silveira one, get a fact.

[MrBenchley]

58. You mean Silveira v Lockyer

Gee, if they were suing it would be called NRA v Lockyer....Here are the actual plaintiffs....

"SEAN SILVEIRA; JACK SAFFORD; PATRICK OVERSTREET;
DAVID K. MEHL; STEVEN FOCHT, Sgt.; DAVID BLALOCK, Sgt.;
MARCUS DAVIS; VANCE BOYCE; KENNETH DEWALD,
Plaintiffs-Appellants, "

http://www.potomac-inc.org/silveira.html

By the way, what was the outcome? Oh yeah, the plaintiffs LOST that case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/06/national/06GUNS.html?ex=1060920000&en=b693d0702c063f02&ei=5070

[Walter_Bowman]

67. It's still runing, and NRA added an amicus brief

Oh, btw, remember Emerson? :-)

[MrBenchley]

76. So in other words, the plaintiffs lost

and the NRA is not suing.

Anopther amazing "RKBA fact" that turns out to be 100% total hooey.

"btw, remember Emerson?"
You mean the crackpot in Texas who threatened to shoot his ex-wife with his guns? Some swell poster boy for the RKBA he is, all right.

[Walter_Bowman]

78. The NRA won that one.

And the other one ain't over yet.

[MrBenchley]

81. Not even close to true

but it must be comforting for you to pretend....

[Walter_Bowman]

83. The court back then rule the 2nd to be an individual right.

Any other questions?

[MrBenchley]

85. Not even close to true

But thanks for playing "What's my RKBA fantasy?" Here's some rice-a-roni and a case of turtle wax.

[Walter_Bowman]

87. Go look up the ruling. (nt)

nt

[MrBenchley]

91. Already have....you're wrong (nt)

[Nazgul35]

86. nto too get flamed or anything...

but in order for one to be a plantiff, they must have standing...

I don't think that the NRA could ever have standing to seek legal redress...which is why cases are brought forward by individuals....

I don't think there was ever a civil rights case where the NAACP was the plantiff....

These organizations (NRA, NAACP, ACLU, etc.) provide funds for legal support, amicus briefs, etc...

So a claim about why the organization has never brought a case before the courts is a little unfair....

Other then that...i'm in agreement....I think....

:evilgrin:

[MrBenchley]

89. They certainly could sue...NAACP has often sued

just as the ACLU and other groups have...you might recall that the NAACP sued and won the lawsuit about 94,000 voters being disenfranchised in Florida in 2000...only to have Jebbo drag his feet on reinstating those voters until after the 2002 midterms.

Here are some other lawsuits:

"The ACLU and NAACP sued the City in 1996 largely because the internal affairs system failed to fairly and zealously investigate civilian complaints of police misconduct," he said."

http://www.aclu.org/PolicePractices/PolicePractices.cfm?ID=9299&c=117

"Harper also was lead counsel when the NAACP sued the Hampton County Election Commission. That case led to a unanimous U.S. Supreme Court decision that adopted regulations regarding how local changes could be made in administering the Voting Rights Act."

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/news/local/6399398.htm

"The Minneapolis Chapter of the NAACP sued the State of Minnesota in 1995, arguing that racial and economic segregation in some Minneapolis schools deprived children of an adequate education guaranteed by the state constitution. The parties entered mediation in 1998 along with representatives from the Minneapolis Public Schools and the West Metro Education Partnership. The parties reached tentative agreement in March, 2000. "

http://www.mpls.k12.mn.us/news/news_release/naacp2.shtml

The NRA has no compunctions about suing on other grounds...but not the Second Amendment.

"The NRA sued the Justice Department to have the records disposed of immediately after the background checks were conduted. The suit was dismissed, and the Supreme Court on Monday refused to hear an appeal. "

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/06/28/national/main299005.shtml

"...the NRA sued Montclair because the city made national news when students bought guns on the Internet. ...The Montinegros along with other concerned Montclair residents, Moms for Gun Safety, and the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs filed suit based on First and 14th Amendments."

http://tanzania.northjersey.com/publications/montclairtimes/page.php?page=5481

"President Bush's signature on the long sought and long debated campaign finance reform package didn't have time to dry on March 27 before congressional opponents and professinal lobbyists were lining up to challenge the new law in court.
The National Rifle Association has already sued to overturn the legislation, arguing that the law infringes on its First Amendment rights of free speech. The new law bans "soft money" donations to political parties which have been associated with abuses in the campaign system, typically five- and six-figure contributions made by corporations, unions and individuals. "

http://salt.claretianpubs.org/washweek/2002/04/is0204e.html

"in order for one to be a plantiff, they must have standing.."
The NRA claims to represent gun owners everywhere...even those who aren't members...that certainly counts as standing...

[Zephyrbird]

26. I just went over there and read some threads.

All I can say is:

SNAAAARF!! :7 :7 :7

"Truely masterfull thought..."

Oh yeah, I saw a lot of that over there.

ROFTL!

[gratuitous]

27. Well, that didn't take long . . .

Another disruptor with more aliases than posts is going, going, gone!

[Hubert Flottz]

51. Smells better allready!

Shit for brains is like the smell of BUSHIT it draws flies!

[MisterP]

55. that was fast!

-tombstone-

[West Coast Democrat]

72. The Wackos Thinkg Timothy McVeigh is a Radical Leftist

they're in complete denial.

[MrBenchley]

82. In fact, Tim would have fit right in over there

and he was a regular on the gun show circuit...

[West Coast Democrat]

92. That's why it's so funny to hear them call McVeigh a Lefty

they also describe him as a "liberal Democrat" and "slightly left of Hillary Clinton."

Here's what one person wrote:

"I have no idea what idiot McVeigh believed in politically but his methods would seem to place him on the extreme left of this scale (imposing his will on others in the extreme). As an islamo-fascist Osama belongs there too."

[MrBenchley]

93. You're so right....

is that "idiot McVeigh" pretty much believed in the same puddle of crap that makes up the RKBA core.

But then there's a concerted effort on the right to revise the histroy they don't like...fake quotes from John Adams that seem to bolster the RKBA position, fake quotes from Madison to bolster the "US is Christian" argument, etc....

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=544a98517e5733bc0bfdff0a08201005&threadid=31745&highlight=Waco

[MrBenchley]

94. By the way

another RKBA enthusiast down at J/PS an hour or so ago threw a totally gratuitous Hillary smear in the title of a thread having nothing whatever to do with her....

Tell me that's not a tipoff.

And you'd be amazed how many "Democrats" there don't think there's anything even the slightest bit racist about Ted Nugent.