How many here are sick to death of hearing about Ralph Nader?

[Beloved Citizen]

And how many here are equally sick of having to see him presented as some sort of untouchable and saintly paragon of all the great virtues instead of the garden variety third party pol he really is?

[robbedvoter]

1. Me!me!me!

One of these days I will cease posting on any nader threads. Flame bait all.

[KissMyAsscroft]

2. Almost as sick of Nader as I am of McCain.

...

[Mz Pip]

3. Nader annoys me

but not nearly as much as his supporters. If people wouldn't vote for him, he wouldn't even be an issue.

All the dewey eyed idealists who think that voting for Nader will accomplish anything other than helping get Bush elected need to have some serious reality slapped into them. We're voting our priciples they may say. Well, your "principles" aren't going to be worth diddly squat if we have another term of BushCo.

MzPip
:dem:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. It's real easy to come to this site and claim you are doing it out of

principle... if you said you were voting for Bush, you'd get a tombstone...by alleging to be a proletariat for Nader...you can disrupt with impunity.

[In Sha Allah]

16. What's Kerry going to do about the racism inherent in the War On Drugs?

The answer is not one damned thing. He hasn't got the balls to even mention it.

"All the dewey eyed idealists who think that voting for Nader will accomplish anything other than helping get Bush elected need to have some serious reality slapped into them."

I'm an idealist, but I'm not "dewey-eyed." "Squinting-with-frustration-and-growing-hatred-eyed," maybe, but definitely not "dewey-eyed." And unless you train a couple of hours a day I doubt you could ever land a slap on me.

So here's what I, as a Nader-worshipper, would like to ask you, as a wanna-be attacker:

Why does Kerry endorse breaking our country's laws?

Kerry supports the war - even though starting it was a clear violation of international law - and international law applies right here in the good ol' US of A, too.

So, on that score, how is Kerry different from Bush?

[Sparkly]

31. What's Nader going to do about a dang thing?

Nothing, because he can't get elected.

[Nlighten1]

5. Nader is in danger of becoming the Dem's Jesus Christ...

The perpetual martyr for the sins of the Democratic Party. The slayer of all things Al Gore!

[robbedvoter]

7. Have you heard Al Gore's speech? Gore also spoke against the IWR

BEFORE vote. Where was your "jesus/slayer"? Ah, straightening the NBA. Spare me the righteousness. he flunked the test during the coup, during the war preparation, ans other W gifts to the nation.

[Nlighten1]

10. What does AG's speech have to do with the price of tea...

that Ralph Nader drinks?

Here come the spittle-flecked-lips Nader haters again. So confident that Ralph is the source of all their grief.

[Mz Pip]

11. Bush is

the source of all my grief. Nader is just a pathetic little demagogue who manages to convince enough "progressives" that he is the answer to all their grief.

MzPip
:dem:

[damnraddem]

6. Actually, I'm sick to death of ...

HAVING to hear about Nader.

[robbedvoter]

9. Well, that goes without saying.

[Daisey Mae]

8. TIRED to death of Nader......actually correctly spelled NADIR

But he thinks that Nader spelling makes him look less ARAB.... which he really is.... Nothing wrong with being ARAB , but I feel that there is something wrong with being ashamed of who you really are......

[CBHagman]

12. Read my lips.

Ralph ist zum kotzen. :puke:

[FlemingsGhost]

13. And yet, you start another Nader thread on DU

Just what in the platform Ralph Nader presents are DUers so opposed to? Spare me your perception of his motives, but present your concerns regarding the issues he champions.

I too, wish Ralph Nader and his frumpy super-sized ego would disappear. But since he (and Dennis Kucinich) are the only ones consistently getting in the face of BushCo., and "go-along-to-get-along Democrats," he'll have to do. He certainly won't get my vote, but he has evry right to state his case.

[sangh0]

14. My criticism of the issue and Nader

is that Nader does nothing to improve the problems he complains of, and even exacerbates them - all in the name of some unnamed, nebulous "principle"

[FlemingsGhost]

19. I agree, sangh0.

However, Nader (and again, Kucinich) does what nary a politician will risk these days: actually talk about the issues that need to be addressed. Not sound-bite politics and dog-and-pony showmanship

That, I believe is Nader's value to a presidential election. But like 2000, both parties are threatened by a voice that--in the end--has little or nothing to lose. They will quash it at every turn.

(edited for grammar)

[In Sha Allah]

22. Respectfully, I disagree.

Nader's saved more lives than Kerry, Gore, Lieberman, and Edwards combined.

[welshTerrier2]

26. but this misses the point ...

i think true blue democrats have the wrong attitude when it comes to Nader and the Greens ...

don't get me wrong, I hate the fact that Nader is running ... he's creating a substantial risk for Kerry ...

but the all-too-common reaction is to generate more hostility rather than to do what is, in the end, the only thing that makes any sense ...

and what is this thing? listening and talking ... this does not guarantee we can reach all or even most of those supporting Nader ... it doesn't mean that we should do things to win Green support that might not be politically pragmatic ... it just means that we should start from a position of respecting other people's opinions ...

if we fail to make any converts from the Nader supporters, Nader could end up with 4 or 5% of the vote ... and who among us believes that would help Kerry get elected ... and you're more likely to make converts starting with an honest discussion of the issues than you are starting with criticisms ... that's just the way it is ...

[In Sha Allah]

30. So here I am. Convert me.

Seems to me that the Democrats and the Republicans get along just fine when it comes to erecting hurdles to the creation of third parties. Seems to me the only reason this is a "two-party" system is because the two parties in power cooperate at every level to keep it that way. Did you know that in MA a third party candidate has to get 44,000 votes for a statewide office before the party can get on the ballot? But... if you're not on the ballot, how are you going to get 44,000 votes?

Nice trick, that. North Carolina's even worse.

Seems to me the Democrats and the Republicans aren't doing such a swell job of running the place. Seems to me like it's going to hell in a handbasket. I know I've heard a few Republicans say the same things, even if they cited different reasons for it, and it's a sentiment echoed in the daily conversations of people who can't even name the Vice President. Both big parties are shrinking while the ranks of Independents and "third" parties are growing. Both big parties have spent the last 20 years assaulting the Bill of Rights. Both big parties have set up massive police forces and huge correctional systems whose chief aim seems to be the arrest, imprisonment, and disenfranchisement of minorities. Both parties are so beholden to corporate interests that they have lost the trust of 75% of America...

So here I am. Convert me.

[welshTerrier2]

32. Well, first things first !!!

welcome to DU, jayberner ...

i don't know about converting you but i can tell you how i see things ... first of all, just to place myself on the political spectrum, i suppose i would be be classified as a demo-Green ... or perhaps a Green-o-crat ...

i totally hate our "two party dominated" system ... we have to find a better way to build not just a third party but a fourth, fifth, etc. party as well ... we are stuck on far too narrow a range on the political spectrum ... how am i doing so far?

now, having said that, i am 100% enthusiastically supporting Kerry ... Kerry does not understand the abuses that capitalism pushes on a democracy ... Kerry, and the democratic party, are not going to bring the changes we need in this country ... still with me?

well, if you are, here's where I speculate we have made different reads on what's going on in the world ...

bush is evil ... he is intent on destroying the social safety net, or what remains of it ... he is intent on destroying Medicare ... if you have elderly parents or know people who depend on the Social Security system, they are great risk if bush gets another 4 years ...

bush is evil ... he does not respect the separation of church and state ... today he was promoting his faith-based initiative ... he doesn't believe in public education or public anything ...

bush is evil ... he doesn't believe in protecting the environment ... he believes in protecting businesses from environmentalists ... we sit on the brink of a global warming catastrophe, a catastrophe that really could threaten all life on the planet, and all he wants to do is free oil companies to drill for more oil ...

bush is evil ... he lied about WMD's and destroyed any hope of building or strengthening our alliances with the global community ... his reasons for war were commercial; not noble ... and his recent blustering about having Saddam's gun can only alienate those in the Muslim world even further ... and let's not even discuss the suffering of Iraqis he's imprisoned ...

and Kerry? as I said, will the poor continue to grow more poor while the rich get richer and even more powerful under a Kerry administration ... the answer, i'm afraid, is yes ...

but I do think Kerry believes far more must be done to protect the environment ... i do think Kerry wants to move this country away from its dependence on fossil fuels ... i do think Kerry would be far less likely to lie and distort his positions than bush has done ... i do believe that Kerry holds sacred the need to protect Social Security and Medicare ... i appreciate Kerry's call to rollback the absurd tax discount giving to very high income Americans ... i do appreciate Kerry's call to deal with the "benedict arnold" corporations that move their headquarters offshore to avoid paying taxes ... even if he is not able to change that system, I'm glad he raised the issue ... Kerry does not want to "privatize" the entire government ... and I have no concerns about his view on church and state issues ...

so there you have my position ... we simply cannot afford to have 4 more years of bush ... Kerry is not my dream candidate, but, as I said, I'm supporting him 100% (with time and money) because bush has got to go ...

to those who see a more long-term view about building a viable third party, I tell you to come see me right after this year's election ... and I tell you that I'd be glad to help you now on the state or local level ... but if you look too long-term, you might just be missing what's right in front of your nose ...

[wyldwolf]

15. yeah! I wish he would just go away!

[FlemingsGhost]

21. Actually, Nader has "gone away."

He took a bunch of disillusioned Democrats with him, too.

Democrats have been crying about it ever since.

[wyldwolf]

23. Nah. I see him on TV several times a week

[JayS]

17. Who?

:)

[In Sha Allah]

18. One Party! One People! One Leader!

That's the ticket! Yeah! Dems do everything right and they never sell their constituencies down the river! What we need is no Republicans, no Greens, and no Nader voters. Dems only! That'll fix the country! Yeah! That's the ticket!

[Deja Q]

20. Nader was the smallest factor to happen during November 2000...

Yet he's made out as the ONLY factor, which is utter bull shit.

That doesn't mean he's a great guy, he's a closeted repuke shill. He doesn't practice what he preaches.

[Nlighten1]

28. Exactly.

It isn't even funny how many Nader haters focus on that ONE particular part of the 2000 election. It is as if NO other factors about the election are important...just those votes that Nader took away from Gore...

I didn't vote for him but I am sick of all these idiots who think Nader made Gore lose.

[quinnox]

24. Here

I get tired of all the Nader threads.

They make it so over dramatic, and paint Nader as Darth Vader or something.

If I didn't see another thread about Nader it would be too soon.

[pinto]

25. Nader, now, is a blip on the screen that the media hypes into a story.

I'm fine with hearing about him, from him, for him, against him, and all the possible combinations of him. Just, in my opinion, a sideline.

media eats it up, 'though. Got to have those polls....

[oasis]

27. Randi Rhodes knows how to shift his tired ass into retreat mode. We take

no prisoners this time around. Too much at stake.

Get back Ralph, get back to where you once belonged.(and don't come back 'till '05)

[Forkboy]

29. I like him

Just look at the people he pisses off the most.How can I not like him? :evilgrin: