Kerry has legal team to investigate voting machines... more on Diebold

[wyldwolf]

Positive Kerry News Flood



The county has been offered $1.4 million in federal money to purchase state-of-the-art electronic voting machines, a more accessible method the National Federation of the Blind wants to force, filing a lawsuit against Portage and other Ohio counties.

...

Armed with reports from computer scientists and news accounts of problems involving touch-screen voting, nearly two dozen area residents turned out to lobby against the new technology. The board voted 4-0 to put off the purchase.

...

Election officials say one thing is certain--many more will be watching them than in November 2000.

"While we put that one under a microscope, this one is going to be under a million-power microscope," said Doug Lewis, director of the Houston-based Election Center, a non-partisan group that trains local election officials.

Sen. John Kerry's campaign, for example, is already putting a team of election lawyers in place to examine jurisdictions where problems may arise.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0406010201jun01,1,1068988.story?coll=chi-news-hed

Diebold Inc. Chief Executive Officer Walden O'Dell says his company won't stop making voting machines, even though states challenge their reliability and investors say there's too little profit in the effort.

Under O'Dell, 58, Diebold has become the largest maker of touch-screen voting machines, a venture that has gained the 149- year-old company notoriety O'Dell says he would have preferred to avoid. O'Dell stopped raising money for George W. Bush's re- election campaign after Democratic candidate John Kerry complained in October that O'Dell was a Bush fund raiser.

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=nifea&&sid=alE76fVHoxr8

[rucky]

1. Time to donate to Kerry.... again

:)

[Don_G]

2. That's Good News

Diebold needs to have a team of lawyers put them under an electron microscope.

[wyldwolf]

3. bump

[wyldwolf]

4. kick

[NMDemDist2]

5. kick n/t

[wyldwolf]

7. no one wants to comment on good news about Kerry...

...but many here are ready to jump on dishonestly presented material like the "get over it" thread.

[shance]

25. Wyldwolf - the name suits you.

You would be more effective if you stopped trying to guilt everyone into the box of approving of Kerry.

We will or we wont, based on any and all accurate information we receive.

I like John Kerry, but your blind defense of our candidate does him no favors, and closes off beneficial discussion.

Like it or not, his apparent lack of commitment to providing specific plans and his vagueness on various issues is fair game, and its what Democracy is all about.

Overall, I find your approach jarring and a little bullying.

BTW, this proposal of Kerrys does not address the issue of stopping the usage of electronic voting machines, which is the only logical solution at the present time, until they are (ever) worthy of being utilized.

Seems to me you would advocate implementing fair voting procedures.

Thats what we are trying to do.

[wyldwolf]

26. explain

You would be more effective if you stopped trying to guilt everyone into the box of approving of Kerry.

Guilt? Besides this post that you interpreted as "guilt," when have you interpreted another of my as such? Which one
like John Kerry, but your blind defense of our candidate does him no favors, and closes off beneficial discussion.

I don't think you understand. Most of the beneficial discussion threads are nothing of the kind but rather retreads of already covered material whose purpose is to tear the candidate down. Notice how only the known Kerry detractors begin such threads - same material - over and over?

Like it or not, his apparent lack of commitment to providing specific plans and his vagueness on various issues is fair game, and its what Democracy is all about

He has been quite direct in providing specific plans and been direct on many issues. Were your pet issues left out? Tell you what, point out to me Kerry bashing threads on issues you think he has been vague on and we'll show you he has not been. Usually, some mistake "not hearing what you want to hear" with vagueness.

Overall, I find your approach jarring and a little bullying.

This is so typical. The Kerry detractors can write and post whatever they want but when someone disagrees, they're jarring and bullying? DU has an ignore feature, use it or you'll see me disagreeing with many more reactionary ideologues.

BTW, this proposal of Kerrys does not address the issue of stopping the usage of electronic voting machines, which is the only logical solution at the present time, until they are (ever) worthy of being utilized.

Ah, like so much Kerry does, no matter what he does, it isn't quite good enough.

[Eric J in MN]

6. high-tech isn't better for voting. low-tech is better.

For a fraction of the time and cost, they could have an election people trust.

Plain papaer ballots, a single transparent ballot box per voting place, count the votes in the same room the voting took place in.

If it takes several hours to complete a public hand-count, that is a fraction of the time it takes to build electronic votinng machines, test electronic voting machines, ship them, train people on them, etc.

A public hand count gives a result people can trust in, unlike "state of the art" electronic machines, which everyone knows can be rigged.

Low tech is better for voting.

There is no need to automate something done once in two years.

[yagotme]

9. I agree, Eric,

I don't trust an electronic device that leaves no paper trail, something that can be rigged, and no proof whatever that it was done. Leave me the usage of the paper ballots, and I'll read about the election tomorrow in the paper, or hear it on the radio. Thank you very much.

[BevHarris]

11. Right on. And if there is worry that we don't have enough

people to hand count 100%, which is what really should be done, make election day a national holiday like we should already have done, and/or mobilize college students and supervised high school civics classes.

One of the real problems is that elections officials don't actually want people to get involved.

One of the real opportunities with precinct-based, all hand counted paper balloting is that it gets many more people involved. While small petty squabbles will break out, this adds interest, a healthy thing. The small scale and dispersed problems pale in comparison to gigantic scale problems which can occur when you centralize control of any voting system to a few computer guys, for-profit corporations, and election officials.

[Raster]

18. i would like to see elections over several days....

...at least one of which would be a national holiday. My feeling is that an election should not be something we hurriedly try to get done, but an endeavor that we invest as much time in as necessary. It is the casting of the ballot that separates democracy from other forms of government.

[NMDemDist2]

23. Poll workers are hard to find

here in Phoenix. The county elections board spoke to our district meeting and alleged they never had as many poll workers as they needed for elections.

[BevHarris]

24. They don't really want people involved.

If they did, they'd make a state or national day off, so that people could work the polls. Or they'd have the election on a Saturday.

And by the way, I always hear that no one wants to attend the Logic & Accuracy tests -- but when you try, you find out the truth. They don't put adequate public notification. It isn't on the web site. You show up at the building and no one will tell you what room it's in. You show up in the room and they glare at you.

She's probably right that poll workers are hard to find -- but it would be easier if we made it easier, and it would be more interesting if we made it more interesting -- by doing things like letting them COUNT THE VOTE. And it would be a whole lot less intimidating if we used paper and pencil instead of Windows CE contraptions that don't even work and have no instructions.

[neverborn]

27. What about proponents of IRV?

I love IRV, but I hate BBV!
HELP BEV!

[BevHarris]

30. IRV doesn't matter if your vote doesn't count n/t

.

[neverborn]

31. I understand, but...

Is IRV a plausible idea? Most people support NO voting machines... is there a way to certify safe voting machines so things like IRV could be real?

[BevHarris]

12. woops, dup.

too quick on the trigger finger.

[Imperialism Inc.]

8. Kick

:kick:

[BevHarris]

10. Before you celebrate

I read the statement he made about a legal team to investigate. He did not appear to be talking about investigating voting machines, but rather, instances in which voting civil rights are abridged. Also noble, but let's not call it something that it's not.

Kerry web site has an article in which he seems to embrace the new technologies. I now have reports from two states that the Kerry campaign supposedly does not want to fight touch screens if they replace punch cards.

I have not been able to get a straight answer out of anyone (yet) in the Kerry campaign. Either people are misquoting him, or his campaign is clueless, or he wants those touch screens.

Lots of contradictory information is swirling around Kerry and voting machines in the voting activism community. We need to know for sure -- one of my main priorities this week.

Bev

[Nlighten1]

15. Yep.

The Chi Tribune article only states this:

"Sen. John Kerry's campaign, for example, is already putting a team of election lawyers in place to examine jurisdictions where problems may arise."

This doesn't mean he is going to investigate voting machines or Diebold, only "jurisdictions where problems may aries" what ever that means.

Perhaps he is talking about the certification of the software on the machines so we don't have a repeat of Georgie and California.

[BevHarris]

16. Actually I don't think this quote has anything to do with machines

It is taken from an earlier press statement which pertains to voting rights violations, especially for African Americans.

Also a cause I endorse.

The reporter doesn't indicate that he got the quote from Kerry. I have been following up on this and so far have not located a campaign staffer whose "area" the voting issue is.

[Nlighten1]

28. That is what I was saying.

It said he is investigating certain areas...not machines. Which I guess it great that at least he is paying attention to certain areas rather than no areas.

[stickdog]

19. Well, they worked for him in NH ...

[dusty64]

13. Glad to hear

this.

[BevHarris]

14. I'm getting a little uncomfortable.

Are we just like the Bush camp, repeating things whether they are true or not? I'd like this to be true more than anyone, but I believe that the headline for this thread misleads.

Nowhere does that article state that Kerry is putting together a legal team to investigate voting machines, or even anything voting machine related.

I researched the statement he made about this. It refers to putting together teams to investigate areas for civil rights violations, not voting machines. Furthermore, we have many conflicting signals from the Kerry camp regarding voting machines. More clarity is badly needed, as there are Kerry quotes at speeches that go both ways, and also quotes in news media that go both ways.

Bev

[dusty64]

29. Well so much for

good news. I didn't have time to read the whole thing. What are they waiting for?

[spotbird]

17. There is something strikingly ironic about the blind

having objections about the more secure voting alternatives.

Not to dis the blind, but could they be led by those who do not see?

apologies to Jonathan Swift.

[BevHarris]

20. As to the blind: There will be news.

We've got an enforced week of nonaction on our investigations while I wait for paperwork on Black Box Voting, the 501c3 nonprofit.

I won't say more than that yet, but I will say there is another option, a better one than touch screens.

The best solution for the blind is probably tactile ballots, a ballot style that does not even need to be certified, is inexpensive, is already being used in the U.S. and Europe, and gives full voting rights to more visually impaired voters, because tactile ballots allow voting absentee or at the polling place, both places in privacy.

[depakid]

21. I don't understand why newspapers ALWAYS feel compelled

to print outright lies like this:

"There never has been a factual problem with security," said David Bear, a spokesman for Ohio-based Diebold Inc., a leading manufacturer of touch-screen machines.

Not only do they print lies- but in the vast majority of cases all over the country, they allow them to go uncontroverted as they do in this "story."-

Even worse, they frequently use equivocal language like some think and some resist when in fact damn near every computer science expert who's examined DRE's is raising serious concerns-

[BevHarris]

22. Yeah. We are seeing some pretty awful reporting

And you must wonder: What is the difference between a "factual problem" and a "problem."

Reporters are told to "get a quote from the other side" but the good ones actually do their homework and are waiting with a follow up question.