TV terrorism "expert" Christopher Whitcomb was an FBI sniper at Ruby Ridge

[NNN0LHI]

I wonder if he is the same cat who popped Randy Weaver's son and wife at Ruby Ridge? Where does MSNBC find these guys I wonder?

Don

http://www.twbookmark.com/authors/24/2202/

Christopher Whitcomb, a 15 year veteran of the FBI, serves in the Critical Incident Response Group's Strategic Operational Intelligence Unit. In this role, he oversees FBI intelligence gathering and information management operations during weapons-of-mass-destruction attacks, terrorist threats, and exotic criminal cases. He also coordinates media operations and serves as FBI spokesman during high-profile FBI investigations.

Whitcomb began his FBI career in 1987, as a Special Agent in the Kansas City Field Office, Springfield, where he distinguished himself as an assaulter and sniper, winning the FBI's Medal of Bravery for exceptional courage in the line of duty. He has participated in nearly every high-profile federal investigation over the past 10 years, including the L.A. riots, shootings at Ruby Ridge, the Branch Davidian standoff, the World Trade Center and Olympic bombings, the Montana Militia standoff, overseas fugitive apprehensions, high-risk dignitary protection details, witness protection assignments, investigation into the war crimes in Kosovo and the Cole bombing in Yemen. In 1997, Whitcomb was promoted to supervisor and became an interview/interrogation instructor at the FBI academy in Quantico, Virginia. He created and scripted NACBOMB: Integrated Case Scenario, an elaborate 16-week curriculum that serves as the basis for all FBI new agent training. He has instructed hundreds of different local, state, federal, and foreign law enforcement agents/officers, including UNSCOM weapons inspectors in Iraq.

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[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. Lon Horiuchi...

Was the shooter at Ruby Ridge.

[KoKo]

2. He was on Imus talking about Bill O'Neill saying he knew more than

anyone about the ME, and he said Al Quaeda isn't something you can go after as an entity because it's not just one group with a single purpose. He said what Bush has done going into Iraq is not going to solve the problem of why they "hate us" because we need to address why they hate us. He said that our presence in the Middle East is seen as us interfering in their religion and culture.

Imus didn't give him much time, but I think he was trying to get into how the Bush policy is wrong. He was a "terrorism anylist" for one of the Cables and I've heard him before and thought he was very good.

I don't know about Ruby Ridge. I think it was mentioned in the promo for his book, but just in passing. He seems very intelligent and thoughtful rather than a "Rambo Black Ops" type. But, then maybe all those "special ops" guys are "thoughtful and intelligent?" :shrug:

[H2O Man]

3. Our country is definitely going to have

"terrorism experts." We will also have an FBI. It's important to be aware of the negative potential in those groups; it is also important to remember that there is a positive potential. I think that this fellow is insightful and a decent human being. The incident at R.R., like that at Waco, was tragic. Yet no one gains by resorting to placing the entire "blame" on any one person or group there.

[Ripley]

4. I agree 100%.

It scares me sometimes how similar some DUers sound to Freeptards when they talk about Waco and RR. I don't understand why they think all federal agents must be a Nazis. I'm sure they'd want to be friends with an FBI agent as soon as they needed one.

Waco really burns me up....that Koresh asshole was a pedophile, rapist looney tune who gave his "congregation" cyanide. How is he any different than Jim Jones?

[H2O Man]

5. I have a large # of relatives

in state & federal law enforcement, and in MI. One uncle was referred to as the "best cop in the country" about 15 years ago by a major media source. A friend who is a tough defense attorney made a joke about him being the "homicidal detective" one day at a break in a court proceeding. I asked him, if someone in his family were the victim of a violent crime, who he would want to investigate the case? And, of course, he laughed and said my uncle.

I worked as a psychiatric social worker for decades. This included responding to numerous "community crises." I got to know a lot of town, county, and state police. Many were jerks who never should have had a badge & gun. But a lot were good and decent men and women. Get in some tight places, and it's nice to have them on the call with you. I was also certified by the state to help train police in responding to "mental health" crises in the community. Most of the police I worked with were sensitive to the special circumstances involved. There are some historic differences between social workers and police forces. Communication helped ease these tensions.

[Ripley]

6. I, too, have family and friends who wear badges.

And have had personal tragedies in my family where they were extremely helpful (i.e. my grandmother was kidnapped at knife point and driven across the state of NC).

Every group of people can have the potential for misfits going berserk. It's a running joke that USPS employees go "postal" yet no one seems to hate the average mail carrier.

[el_gato]

8. It's not a "few misfits"

The problem is systemic and begins at the top.
The situation is more the case of there are a few honest cops
but the people at the top have another agenda.

[el_gato]

7. You are totally off base Ripley

You don't have jack shit in your smears on Koresh except for repeating propaganda. And as far as Weaver, the FBI murdered his family.

You can believe in the lies if you want but the FBI and ATF are totally out of control. I guess you like children being gunned down by federal agents?

Wake up!

[AntiCoup2K4]

9. Just because the Feds acted wrong doesn't make Weaver & Koresh blameless

Weaver was a Nazi white supremacist and Koresh was a pedophile who thought he was Jesus Christ. These guys aren't anybody's heroes.

[tinanator]

11. so kill em?

no trial necessary? Wouldnt gas chambers save on the cost of bullets?

[slaveplanet]

13. koresh- while no great guy

could have been easily served up their warrant on one of his many visits into town.

the FBI wanted a raid ON the compound , and they got one.

[el_gato]

14. Your claims are unfounded and misleading

But I see you have no problem making them.
The feds wanted a confrontation and these people were
easy targets.

[H2O Man]

12. el_gato:

A good deal of what you say is true. There are serious systematic problems in many local, state, and federal police agencies. There is a tendency for the wrong type of people to be drawn to this line of work. Again, I trained police in working with the mentally ill in crisis situations in the community. It's tough enough to be psychotic, or depressed enough to think that killing yourself is your best option ..... without having an asshole with a badge kick the shit out of you. And it happens.

Regardless of what crimes the people at Waco or Ruby Ridge were accused of, obviously we do not want anyone -- adults or children -- to die in these situations.

Also, your opinion on the % of good cops vs bad cops may well be right. I'd like to be able to say it's different, but you might ask me about Frank Serpico. My uncle that I mentioned also exposed systematic police corruption at the highest levels, and the response was vicious. It would have been enough to crush an average man.

Still, there are times when many of us rely upon police. My job did not allow me to carry a gun. (Not that I ever wanted one.) But think about finding yourself face to face with a loaded, double barrel 12 gauge shotgun, with a person who is just in the mood to blow someone's brains out, because they are "mad" ..... I know that feeling. Damn glad for the police.

[el_gato]

15. thanks for the thougtful reply

[Ripley]

16. No thanks to your asinine attack on me.

Yeah, I LOVE IT when cops kill children. :eyes: And yes, you must have been there and seen that the FBI attacked the children and made the adults take cyanide.

Why do the tapes have Koresh's voice saying "light the fires" and directing people to take the pills?

Why did Koresh, the Christ-like figure in your mind, not release the women and children and men who wanted to leave, to the negotiators who were talking to him for day?

You may think I am completely misinformed, but I think you are. Maybe neither one of us has the 100% truth of the situation.

However, I decided to believe the FBI had reason to tell this guy who had a compound full of weapons and a history of abuse by former members, to turn himself in and he chose not to. What would you want them to do if the compound was next to your farm or home? Just leave?

Yes, the FBI has jackboots and police corruption is there, but will I wish for Anarchy and no police force in favor of that? No. I'd like to see more regulation, oversight and clemency for whistle-blowers.

You seem to only adovcate Anarchy.

[H2O Man]

17. Ripley:

I tend to agree with you, although I must admit I do not know a lot about Waco .... only what I've heard on the news, or in a few magazines. I seem to recall that CBS had films that proved - clearly - that David K. had sexual relations with young teen-aged girls.

I've read "Every Knee Shall Bow," by Jess Walter, and am far more familiar with the Ruby Ridge "incident." There is no question, for example, that Randy Weaver was associated with racist scum. Closely associated, in fact. That makes him an unattractive figure, in my book. And it sounds like in yours, also.

Yet this does not mean either of us is in favor of the death penalty, for sex abusers, rapists, or racists. Nor, obviously, does it imply we smirk when police murder those who are associated, either by choice or by force, with a David or Randy.

I think that we are both willing to discuss openly the problems with police using deadly force when unwarrented. And police corruption. I think that the systems are problemed, and I also hold individual officers responsible for their actions.

Still, I think we both are saying that David and Randy should be held responsible for their roles. Randy was killed on Ruby Ridge. But he was a cowardly dog, who hid behind his wife, and purposely put his children in harm's way. This total lack of character played a significant role in the deaths that occured. It does not excuse the FBI for their role. But it is wrong to only see one side to it, or to applaud Randy or attribute any heroic qualities to a cowardly pup.

I suspect that this can also be applied to David K. Again, I do not know that case as well. But I do not respect grown men who use children for a shield.

It's important for both sides to realize that (1) our society is going to have police -- so it's better to concentrate on ideas of how to improve the quality of police officers, than to lump them all together as "enemies" or "pigs" or other silly immature catagories; and (2) recognize that we must learn to live together as an extended family here in America, where police etc are all of our relatives .... and to move towards a cultural reconciliation. The alternative is indeed worse than Waco.

[el_gato]

20. Randy Weaver was not killed on Ruby Ridge

and when did it become a crime to drop out of society and
go live in the woods? Racist or not, he didn't deserve to
have FBI snipers murder his family. Tyranny begins when
others accept it.

And as far as Waco: have you ever seen the film "The Rules of Engagement"

[el_gato]

18. how cute, as far as the FBI they have a history of murdering people

for political reasons

Take a look at what they did during the COINTELPRO years especially in regards to the American Indian Movement.

[leesa]

10. Well, then he should know, being a terrorist himself.

[kiahzero]

19. What are you talking about?

That link doesn't say anything about him being a sniper. In fact, it talks about him being an investigator.

He has participated in nearly every high-profile federal investigation over the past 10 years, including the L.A. riots, shootings at Ruby Ridge, the Branch Davidian standoff,