Bush is meeting with Dr. James Dobson this morning.....

[kentuck]

..the founder of Focus on the Family. Just heard on the local radio station out of Denver. Another political trip, to shore up his religious base, but charged as official business? Coming down to the AFA later this afternoon. Very strict security. No water bottles. All the small airports within 60 square miles have been shut down. No propane trucks from San Antonio, I hope.

[Philostopher]

1. Will he bring Barney?

He and Dr. Dobson can beat their dogs together. It'll reinforce their dominance over them.

[Ishoutandscream]

4. Oh yes, Dr. Dobson

Nothing like beating the crap out of a child to keep him in line. Spare the rod, spoil the child, ya know. Wonder what influence this charlatan has over the Boy King.

[Philostopher]

12. Yeah, someone posted this link before,

in a discussion of Dobson's child-rearing and family advice. I grew up in the church Dobson crawled up out of, so I heard a lot of this crap growing up -- my folks didn't buy into it too much, they were Depression babies and were pretty sure they knew what they were doing without the advice of younger 'pundits' on the subject. I can't complain -- for a kid raised in the sixties and early seventies, I was neither abused nor overly coddled, I don't think.

Anyway, here's the link with excerpts from one of Dobson's books about his scorched-earth policy with his dachshund:

http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/DobsonsDog.html

[yellowcanine]

35. Dobson is one sick puppy. I feel sorry for his kids and the kids of any

parents who take his advice and act on it. No one I know that works with children advocates the old adage of "letting children cry themselves to sleep" anymore. That just creates insecure, distrusting and cynical adults - like Dobson!

[Straight Shooter]

62. Can't wait to show THIS to my Christian Humane Society friends

Makes me sick, I had no idea. I knew he was a nutcase, but didn't realize that he thinks it's something to brag about that he won a case of dominance by whipping a daschund, for god's sake. I'm surprised he didn't have the dog's teeth pulled.

What a freakazoid.

[anarchy1999]

27. Everyone here go read up on the Unholy Alliance. Dobson is a big player.

http://www.rense.com/general20/unholy.htm TThere are four parts to this story:

snip:
The Council Of National Policy (CNP)
Another Moon sponsored organization is the Council of National Policy founded in 1981 by Tim LaHaye, the aforementioned co-author of the "Left Behind" book series. It is reported that he received $500,000 from a Mr. Bo Hi Pak, Moons #1 man, and a former Korean CIA officer. Though a tape exists showing that LaHaye thanked Pak for the money, LaHaye never denied the charge but verbally attacked the sources verifying the allegation with a barrage of insult.

Other members of the CNP have included:
Beverly and Lee LaHaye, also associated with Moons CWA group. Gary Bauer, Bill Bright, James Dobson (Focus On The Family), Bob Dugan, Ron Godwin, Robert Grant, Rebecca Hagelin, Bob Jones the 3rd (Bob Jones University), Alan Keyes (Outspoken ultra-conservative black talk show host and author), Dr. D. James Kennedy (noted television evangelist and Pastor), Peter Marshall, Sam Moore of Thomas Nelson Publishing, Pat Robertson (founder of the Christian Broadcasting Network and former Presidential aspirant), Rev. Duane Motley, Ralph Reed, Oliver North (formerly with the National Security Council), Phyllis Schlafly (ultra-right columnist and pundit), Rev. Jim Woodall, John Ankerberg (internationally recognized Christian television personality), Rev. E.V. Hill, James Robison, Jay Sekulow (Attorney and activist for ultra-right/Christian causes), Pat Boone, Larry Burkett, Reed Larson, and many others.

From another source:
Dr. James Dobson- CNP Board of Governors (1982). Associate of Pediatrics, USC School of Medicine. Founder and Director of Focus on the Family. Signed 1993 Covenant of Mutual Respect responding to objections of Catholic and Jewish leaders in Colorado Springs that "Jewish and Catholic youth were being evangelized at school." In this covenant, Focus on the Family, Young Life, International Students, Inc., and the Navigators agreed to cease such activities out of respect for other religious beliefs. A former employee of Focus on the Family presents a rare inside look at FOTF in an expose, Let's Focus in on Focus on the Family.

In 1989 Focus on the Family vice president Rolf Zettersten testified: "One of the striking first impressions I had when I came to Focus on the Family seven years ago was the diversity of denominations represented by my co-workers" (Focus on the Family, December 1988). He said: "I joined the Nazarenes, Presbyterians, Baptists, and Charismatics (& many other denominations) who had cast their theological distinctives aside in order to achieve a common objective--to help families."

The March 8-14, 1998, issue of the National Catholic Register contained an article about Catholic musicians. which noted that James Dobson and Focus on the Family has endorsed Roman Catholic singer, Kathy Triccoli, and her music. The National Catholic Register also pointed out that Dobson endorses a Catholic youth magazine named "YOU!"

The November 1989, issue of Focus on the Family's Clubhouse magazine featured the late Roman Catholic Mother Teresa. A smiling Mother Teresa was on the cover, and the lead article was entitled "Teresa of Calcutta: Little Woman with a Big Heart." The readers of this magazine were made to think that Mother Teresa was a genuine New Testament Christian and that she did great work for God through her Sisters of Charities mission. The September 1990, issue of New Covenant, a Catholic charismatic magazine, featured Dobson and a very positive report on Focus on the Family. Dobson's photo appeared the cover. Dobson accepted an honorary doctorate from the Roman Catholic Franciscan University of Steubenville, Ohio

In the late 1980s Dobson helped form the Religious Alliance Against Pornography which included Roman Catholic priests and bishops. The 1986 meeting was held in St. Patrick's Cathedral. Dobson praised the unity which was present at that meeting and stated that "there has been great camaraderie among the top leaders of virtually all religious groups" in the U.S. (Focus on the Family, January 1987). Of this alliance Jerry Kirk said, "Never before have we seen Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Greek Orthodox and (Mormon) leaders come together in such agreement and cooperation on an issue." Also represented at the meeting were the National Association of Evangelical, the National Council of Churches, the Southern Baptist Convention, and

http://watch.pair.com/database.html

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Dobson occasionally has something good to say, but

generally is too conservative and old-fashioned for my tastes.

Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[truthspeaker]

6. like when he says fathers shouldn't be too affectionate with their sons

because it could make them gay. Old-fashioned, to the extreme.

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. That's a new one to me

We've actually been watching his "Bringing up Boys" series in Sunday school, and he said the opposite of that on the tape. My beef with the lesson though, is that he trashes the unisex movement of the 70s and feminism. Yeah, it caused some problems in some respects, but dang if Condi Rice would have the job she has now if there had not been a feminist movement. (Iknow, I hate that she is in that job, but I love that it's a woman.. *blah*)

Would Jesus love a liberal? You bet!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/liberalchristians.htm

[Riptide]

17. "Bringing up Boys" is a piece of trash!

I have a son (and two daughters), and this book is truly disturbing. Dobson believes that if women don't stay home with their children, then they are harming their family. His answer to all parenting challenges is to beat your child into submission. He is totally obsessed with homosexuality, and believes we have to withhold affection from our sons in order to prevent them from becoming gay.

Ofcoarse he is against women being equal to men. He wants to keep the little women barefoot and pregnant. We don't want those girls getting any ideas about getting an education or second guessing the wisdom of the all knowing penis bearers.

The title should be "Bringing up homophobic, abusive, ignorant boys". I am curious, what denomination of church are you attending that would actually encourage Dobson's anti-Christian views?

[GreenPartyVoter]

19. Nazarene. And no, it wasn't my choice. Hubby's family

is Nazarene and his father is a minister. There would be a huge kerfuffle if we don't attend that church. (And hubby says I don't have to go but he will take the kids no matter what, so I go to try and balance things out. Would much rather go to a liberal church, believe me.)

[Riptide]

49. GreenPartyVoter....not trying to rude, but....

I can't imagine not having any say in the religious upbringing of my own children. Sometimes, you just have to have a "kerfuffle" or two to keep things fair in a marriage. We would have a big problem if my husband said, "I'm doing (whatever) no matter what"

My husband and I had different views on religion, so we compromised. We both felt most comfortable in the churches we grew up in, but neither of us would demand that the other one comply. So, we found a totally different denomination that we could both agree on.

My uncle is an Episcopal minister, and his son compromised in the same way with his wife, and now attends a Presbyterian church. My uncle is fine with it, but even if he weren't, it is still what my cousin would have done.

I'm sorry if I am coming off as rude. Your post just struck me as a little shocking.

[GreenPartyVoter]

65. There are deeper issues here which might explain some of this

Keeping things fair in a marriage doesn't work if one partner threatens to end the marriage if he doesn't get his way. (Please remember that conservatives function from a place of fear. He is scared to death about he or his kids going to Hell, and keeping us in the "right" church will keep us safe from that. :( )

1) I don't drive. So I can't get my kids to where I want them to go anyway.

2) FIL once stormed out of our house just because he found NON-alcoholic beer in our house. Imagine what would happen if we took the kids to the "wrong" church? (He has a very narrow view of which churches are "really" Christian.) Probably he would disown us. This would be very damaging to the family over the long run.

3) Hubby is a traditional conservative when it comes to views on homosexuality and abortion. Even if we found another denom, he would demand that it is firm on this point. At this time we agree to just not discuss either topic around our kids, because they don't need to see us get rip roaring mad at each other over ideology. (Note: our guys are 4 and 6. Still really little.) S far it hasn't come up at Sunday School, and if it did I would be very outspoken that I don't think it is appropriate for small kids to talk about it.

4) This church, though I disagree with its stances on abortion and homosexuality, is fairly forward thinking compared to some of its siblings. Women can wear pants and make-up, and can preach. I think we may even have a few congregants who are divorced.

5) I feel that my presence in the church, even though I am not wildly outspoken about my beliefs, has a positive impact on the group. As I said, I disagreed with some of what Dr. Dobson was saying in his video about feminism and explained my thoughts about it to the class. Surprisingly a very interesting and positive conversation came out of that. :)

5) Hubby and I are teaching the kids the very basics, which they would find in many churches regardless of denomination: the trinity, the ten commandments, the golden rule...Veggie Tales are very popular with us.

6) No matter how crazy hubby thinks I am, I will keep on telling them to blow kisses to God, give God a hug, and deliver hugs and kisses from Him to them. And in our nightly prayers we will still ask God to take care of all the people, plants, and animals of the world.

7) I will be putting into their hands at age 16 or so, some of Marcus Borg's books and I will take them to other churches. (Yes, there is a chance that some indoctrination could occur before then, but I'll do my best to counteract it.)

[Roaming]

20. Just finished reading "Bringing Up Boys" and I found absolutely

nothing offensive with it. It was a very good book IMO.

When addressing feminism and the women's movement, etc., he outlines what he sees as some of the negative effects it has had on society (and I have to agree with a lot of it). But he is fair, being careful to state that the movement corrected wrongs in society (equal pay, respect for women, etc.), of which I also agree.

[stanwyck]

21. what, exactly, are those negative effects

of recognizing women as equal members of society? Really. I'd like to know.

[Roaming]

25. Recognizing women as equal members of society was praised

in the book. But there were some things addressed in the book to counter arguments that came out of the feminism movement, and these were based on recent scientific studies:

(1) Overall boys do better with fathers involved in their lives (countering statements made that boys do just as well or even better without dads);

(2) Children suffer behavioral problems if left in day care for too many hours in the week (countering the argument that some groups have made that daycare is actually preferable for all children);

(3) Boys and girls are significantly different in ways that are genetically determined (countering arguments that you could raise a child to be the opposite sex just based on nurturing them a certain way).

(4) Divorce hurts children a lot more than previously thought.

(5) Surveys done of working moms found that up to 70 percent wished they could stay home with their kids if they could afford it (countering the statement many feminists have made that all women want to work outside the home for fulfillment).

These are just some of the things that I can remember offhand.

[SCDem]

26. Urrrrr this just gets me.... so Dobson says these 5 things

came out of the feminism movement.

I am 27 and my husband is 57 we grew up in two different times.... I guess I grew up post-feminism or whatever and he grew up pre-feminism.

Lets see

1) His father left his mother before he was born and he has a half-brother that is 2 months older than him. - Dobson is asserting that the feminism movement took fathers out of kids lives?!?!?! Fathers have removed themselves from kids lives by choice for a long long long time. Whether it be emotionally or physically.

2) Feminism movement created need for daycare. Uh no our economy and the undeniable wage gap creates need for daycare.

3) This I am sure he is taking from the one recorded boy that was raised as a girl story. A rare case and was encouraged by one lone researcher (who was male and not a feminist) who still asserts that he is right.

4)Divorce has happened longer than people new what the modern meaning of feminism was. ie my #1 above

5) again ie #3 its the economy and wage gap.

Just my .02 cents

[Roaming]

30. Sure there was divorce, kidless fathers, day care, etc. before

the sexual revolution, but all these things become much more commonplace and readily accepted by society afterward. Of course, not all of it can be blamed on this movement alone, but there is definitely a correlation. What Dobson is saying is, maybe sometimes embracing the traditional view of family and raising children can make sense, while at the same time allowing for changes in culture to bring equality.

[SCDem]

33. but what about equality and evening out economic class structure

it's not just as simple as "traditional view" of the family.... who's traditional view? Ward and June Cleaver perhaps? But we have always had a working class and have relied on them... did they not have kids... of course they did... were African American women not slaves because of their gender ... uh no what about the # of people who hire hispanic domestic help for little to nothing (defnitely not for minimum wage which is not a liveable wage anyways). Is Dobson advocating that only wealthy people should have kids so one parent can stay at home? Though he might not be saying those exact words that is what he shortly says if he does not address the greater issues like economic and class inequality that are a more heavy burden on the American Family than "feminism" and women wanting to work.

[sandnsea]

31. What complete rubbish!

Please provide references for your comments that anybody ever said boys are better off without fathers, daycare is preferable to parents, or all women want to work outside the home. Nobody ever said that EVER.

I'll tell you why more women are raising children on their own, they decided they didn't have to put up with abusive, controlling assholes who spout shit like this.

If Dobson wants to support strong families, he better talk to MEN. When they stop thinking they can do any goddamned thing they want to because they're the MEN, the might providers and protectors, then maybe women will want to stick around.

[SCDem]

34. Thanks sandnsea for helping out on this one

Seems like someone has been indoctrinated pretty well.

[Roaming]

51. Indoctrinated? I don't think so -- but it made me rethink some stuff

I had taken as a given. I want what's best for my three boys -- AND for the society I will place them in someday, AND for the families they may lead someday (that's why I read the book) and I don't have to agree with everything stated in it to take away some useful advice.

[Roaming]

39. If you want references, they are a ton of them in the book; I returned

it to the library so I'm quoting summaries as I remember them. But I am sure there were definitely quotes from women feminists in there that said these things because I was somewhat shocked by them.

He DOES talk to men in this book, specifically boys; that over the past 20-30 years boys have not been raised to be protectors, providers, and mature adults, and he blames part of it on the five things I mentioned above. And I agree with you 100% -- it's the lack of a strong male presence in families that causes so much pain and trouble nowadays, especially among the poor.

He's basically saying that maybe some of the traditional approaches to rearing children (fathers are important, children need loving discipline, boys should be taught to be responsible and treat girls with respect, etc.) does work and we should revisit those things, not throw it all away just because times have changed.

[sandnsea]

43. Oh good lord

NO, men do not need to be raised to be protectors and providers, that's exactly what turns them into controlling abusers. They need to be raised to be respectful equal partners, we aren't living in caves anymore. And I would float the idea that a good portion of the reason that we've always had the poor, with or without fathers, is because the men are drunken, gambling assholes who never supported their families in the first place. The only difference today is that the women don't have the societal pressure to stay with them and get up and leave.

This is just sickening, I cannot believe I have to fight these fights AGAIN.

[Roaming]

45. I respectfully disagree that raising boys to be good providers and

protectors of their families turns them into controlling, abusing monsters. It is the LACK of personal responsibility and direction that causes men to become "drunken, gambling assholes" etc.

Please don't confuse the words "protector and provider" with some old-fashioned 1950s authoritarian who bosses his wife around. That's not what this book is about, anyway. It's about raising boys to be responsible men who will be good husbands and fathers someday.

[sandnsea]

50. Respectful, equal partners

NOT the he-man provider and protector. That's the problem with the theory, it starts out with the wrong premise so it's bound to go downhill from there. The problem with young men today is that they think they MUST be the protector and provider and don't have any self-esteem when they discover women do not need them in that role anymore. And the more insecure they get, the more controlling and abusive they become. Read up on spouse abuse before you go deciding what the family needs today.

[truthspeaker]

40. so he makes up lies about what feminists say, then debunks his own lies?

and this doesn't bother you?

[Roaming]

41. All I can say is read the book and check out all the end-notes;

I returned it to the library so I don't have it in front of my right now.

[sandnsea]

48. No answers, huh

Maybe you need to get a different book. ;)

[stanwyck]

56. how convenient

and you don't really "remember" these bizarro feminazi quotes. You should get a job with hate-radio. No specific sources. No facts. Just emotional, half-remembered, suit your own purpose, babbling. Be specific. Quote sources. Names. Otherwise, we can't take you seriously.

[stanwyck]

55. You seem to be equating feminism

with divorce, father's involvement with the family, and women working. Why is feminism at fault? Doesn't the economy have something to do with women working? Or abandonment by the fathers? Your conclusions seem emotional. Not scientific. This is typical fundamentalist "science". Feminists don't bar men from their children. Feminists don't advocate divorce. Feminists don't insist women work outside the home. I don't know where you got your view of feminism. The 700 Club? The Taliban? Feminism is about equal rights and equal opportunity. You've twisted feminism into a fundamentalist broadside against women.

[Roaming]

58. I think that feminism as it applies to equal rights, women working

outside the home, being respected by men, etc., etc., is GREAT, it was needed and long overdue. However, you can't ignore that there were some byproducts of the sexual revolution that had a negative impact on our society.

That doesn't mean that feminism in itself is bad, it's just that there are some components of it that may have gone overboard, and one of those is that men somehow have been negated as being important to the family unit. Can't we have the best of both worlds--combine some of the traditional elements of the past with progressive thinking?

[burythehatchet]

44. yikes!

:scared:

[javadu]

16. He is also concerned about . . .

the sexual aggressiveness of girls nowadays. Supposedly, God made males to be the aggressors in relationships. Therefore, good Christian boys may have a hard time saying, "No" to those girls who want to jump their bones. In fact, when they do say "no," it may confuse these good boys about their sexuality and they may grow up to be gay.

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

22. Hi from the land of "Focus on the Family"

Bwahahaha! That is the biggest pile of trash I've ever heard! It seems to me that that belief structure makes young men out to be "mindless victims". Poor babies can't say "no" to those evil manipulating young women. What a bunch of crap!

Any wonder why it only took me 4 months after moving here to get my "Focus on your own damned family" bumper sticker?

This is a very split community, the focus on the family nuts and normal people. Unfortunately, Focus on the Family wields a lot of political power here. They organize well, radio call ins for boycotts and recalls etc. I just wish the city council would call their bluff, most of us would have their backs.

[kentuck]

24. Psst...

Welcome!

From the Springs, also. :)

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

28. Thanks!

:hi:
Thanks for the welcome! We moved here from Indianapolis this past summer. And I thought we were COMING from the "Bible Belt" HA! I have been educated LOL

[sandnsea]

32. oooh, oooh...

I want one of those bumper stickers. Where do you get them, or did you make it yourself?

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

42. Bumper Stickers

I got mine from Evolvefish.com. They are based right here in the Springs. But beware you may have a tough choice, they have tons of very humorous stickers! Have fun!

Evolvefish

:hi:

[sandnsea]

52. Thank you!!

Lots of good bumper stickers and even my favorite... Think. It's Patriotic! Don't know what to do now.

[Roaming]

29. Sexual aggressiveness of girls was not directly addressed

Supposedly, God made males to be the aggressors in relationships. Therefore, good Christian boys may have a hard time saying, "No" to those girls who want to jump their bones. In fact, when they do say "no," it may confuse these good boys about their sexuality and they may grow up to be gay.

I didn't see anything close to what is stated above in his writings. What he does write about is teaching boys personal responsibility when it comes to sex and respecting the opposite sex.

[Riptide]

46. Roaming, what about the beatings?....

Dobson is a huge advocate of hitting a child (repeatedly) until you have broken his will. That sounds like the behavior of a bully and a control freak. Certainly not the kind of person I would aspire my son to grow up to be like.

I have also read this book, and I found it sickening. I can't believe any liberal would think his teachings are acceptable.

[Roaming]

47. What about the beatings?

I only found one mention of corporal punishment, and that was a spanking if found appropriate. I don't agree that spanking is necessary to raise a child.

I did NOT see anything about repeated beatings and breaking a child's will. I haven't read any of his other books, and I don't listen to his show though.

[sandnsea]

53. Well read this

"Some strong-willed children absolutely demand to be spanked, and their wishes should be granted."

And compare other statements by violence-prevention professionals as compared to Dobson.

http://www.nospank.net/perlin2.htm

[Roaming]

54. I do not agree that a child must be beaten into submission. There

may be some kids whose behavior warrants an occasional spanking, but not done in anger, just to get their attention. I do not agree that using objects like switches are a good idea. So I do disagree with Dobson on those points.

[Riptide]

61. Roaming, how can you defend Dobson's abusive ideas?....

He tells parents to hit their children EVERY time they are disobedient, he says to squeeze them on the back on the neck to stop bad behavior. He advises parents that if a child cries for more than 2 minutes after they have been hit, you need to hit them again.

This man is sick. His books are no more than how-to books on raising future abusers.

[sandnsea]

63. Your 3 boys

As a mom of 3 boys, men now, I'm going to give some unsolicited advice. They need to know they're competent. That's really about it. So spend your time teaching them all sorts of things, including an increasing measure of chores and work as they're capable. Work teaches them self-discipline. Respect women yourself, and they'll imitate that. That's about it. As long as you DON'T set up power-trip conflicts with boys, they generally breeze through just fine.

[stanwyck]

57. Yes, but your memory

is already suspect. You can't remember which feminists were advocating women get divorced or disparaged homemakers. You can't remember which feminists felt men were obsolete. So. Maybe you can't really remember what another reader mentioned about the sexual aggressiveness of girls. You're not a reliable source.

[Roaming]

64. Sorry I don't have a photographic memory. At least I read the book.

[stanwyck]

67. well, kind of

you only retained those parts which support your thesis. You're pretty hazy on the rest. Not sure that qualifies as "reading"...maybe selective skimming. Hannity uses the same tactic. He selectively quotes and cites statistics. While ignoring that which doesn't support his views.

[Chovexani]

68. Now, where have I heard something like that before?

Hrm...oh yeah, I think it was in

The good Dr. Dobson would no doubt find it a font of timeless wisdom for the traditional family.

--Chovexani

[mmonk]

3. whew

I hope bush doesn't win. I don't know how much more ignorance I can take. Is it too much to ask for a modern educated democratic republic these days?

[AZCat]

5. I really don't understand this...

Bush seems to find plenty of time to spend with people like Dr. Dobson, but he can't find time to read a newspaper, or hold a press conference more than twice a year, or even pay attention to the MILLIONS of worldwide protesters.

He doesn't seem to have any problem surrounding himself with people who reinforce his beliefs about the world, and his place in it. When was the last time someone looked in his face and told him straight out that he didn't know what he was doing?

[Racenut20]

8. Fifth grade, but his buddies backed him up.

[AntiCoup2K4]

7. Now, if I were a terrorist.....

...Nah, better not finish that sentence. Agent Mike might be watching and get the wrong idea. :hi:

[Killarney]

10. Dr. Dobson of "Focus on Beating the Family"

He advocates spanking, withholding affection, and all sorts of other forms of tough love to make sure you're son doesn't make the "choice" to be gay.

[Ishoutandscream]

15. Oh My God - I kiss and love on my three year old son

I'm turning him into a godless homosexual!! Why, oh why, didn't I read Dobson's book sooner.

[kentuck]

11. Reading between the lines....

Bush and Rove are concerned about the election and are actively working to re-enforce their base. They are seriously worried, it appears.

[catmandu57]

13. Is the base crumbling?

They haven't really got what they wanted, the faith based crapola isn't in place. There's no official christian religion....yet.
I wonder who would be the secretary of religion, falwell, robertson, dobson, reed, or bennett?

[kentuck]

14. No. They are just concerned about getting them out to vote....

They love the judge that over-ruled the partial-birth decision - that helped a lot. (Is he a registered Repub?) Now, they have to show the people that Dubya is a man of God and they need to get out to vote on Nov2nd..

[blm]

18. Another shining example of no difference between Bush and Kerry.

.

[Wapsie B]

23. Ah.........Little Jimmy Dobson,

a good example why we need to tax so-called religious organizations like FOF. He's duped so many Lutherans and other sects into supporting his PAC.

[anarchy1999]

36. One more alert to everyone here, go read Unholy Alliance!

It will boggle your mind. And then you will move forward and past Dobson and recognize him and his ilk for what they are.

[yellowcanine]

37. Some of the worst cases of child abuse have been fundy parents trying to

"break the will" of a child. Bush should not be meeting with people whose advice encourages child abuse.

[MountainLaurel]

60. Because children are manipulative, you know

That's why you have to break them early before they think that your job is to provide for their physical, emotional, and mental needs.

:eyes:

[mitchum]

38. Dobson is a huckster and a grifter...

a mealy-mouthed sonofabitch

[keithyboy]

59. The American Taliban meets with the American Dictator.

How interesting.

[Oddman]

66. Love it!

Talk about the extreme radical right!! What could be scarier than James Dobson and bush in the same room???? Can you imagine that guy co-opted the name family?