People MUST understand that Bush = DRAFT in 2005

[jackstraw45]

Another piece of the puzzle....just wait until the BFFE wants to add another war in Syria. More contracts, more blood and more money for the cronies. NO END to war with Bush/Cheney 2004.....

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040602/ts_nm/iraq_usa_troops_dc_1

Army Issues Order to Stop U.S. Soldiers from Leaving

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Army has issued an order preventing thousands of soldiers designated for duty in Iraq (news - web sites) or Afghanistan (news - web sites) from leaving the military even when their volunteer service commitment expires, officials said on Wednesday

The move to extend the service of some soldiers involuntarily was the latest sign of increasing stress on the Army as the Pentagon (news - web sites) strives to maintain adequate troop levels in the two conflicts.

[blm]

1. Another example of no difference between Bush and Kerry.

.

[vi5]

2. Huh? Hasn't Kerry laid out a pretty specific plan....

...for avoiding a draft? I thought I remembered reading it either on his website or from a speech.

[blm]

9. Yes. I am just mocking the faux lefty line.

The operatives know exactly how to get the knee jerk wing of the lefties to repeat their mindless memes.

[goodhue]

13. you got me

good one blm!
(still i'm uncovinced that president kerry will refuse to support srping 2005 draft which will be necessary absent a marked downturn in current deployment levels)

[goodhue]

6. indeed n/t

[NNN0LHI]

3. Sorry. But Murcans will not believe it until they see the photos n/t

[forgethell]

23. What the hell

is a "Murcan"? I can't find "Murca" in my atlas, anywhere.

[cheezus]

4. This needs a poster to be put on college campuses

That makes it clear even to the stupidest freshman that they're probably going to get drafted. Is there anything out there?

[PROGRESSIVE1]

5. Kerry opposes the Draft!!!

Everyone should remember that before they vote!

[goodhue]

8. prove it

despite some lip service he has not been unequivocal on issue

[jpgray]

10. Actually, yes he has--please research the issue before making this claim

-SNIP-

Mr. Kerry also asserted, in response to a question from a high school student about the possibility of another military draft, "If you elect me president of the United States, I will give us a foreign policy that absolutely makes it unnecessary to have a draft in this nation."

He accused the Bush administration of "running a kind of clandestine draft" that "turned the National Guard and the Reserve into almost active duty."

- SNIP -

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/26/politics/campaign/26kerry.html

[blm]

12. You're wrong.

There are several threads in the archives by Dems Will Win that are clear about Kerry's position against the draft. I'm sure you can find them if you're interested in furthering the truth.

You certainly wouldn't want to spread disinfo would you?

[goodhue]

16. I'm aware of the threads and Kerry's statement

but I nonetheless believe that military is preparing for a spring 2005 draft and that president kerry will support it in some manner.

I think issue turns on a semantic question of when is a draft a draft. It will function differently from past drafts and allow room to call it some sort of recruitment short of a draft.

[jackstraw45]

14. From his lips & no responsible Prez would EVER totally rule out a draft

From http://forum.johnkerry.com/index.php?showtopic=226&hl=draft&st=30

QUESTION: Senator Kerry, you've described the situation as U.S.
unilateral involvement, you talked about the overextension of the troops.
Do you think this course is ultimately going to lead the institution of
the draft?
KERRY: I hope not. I would be against that in the current form.
I don't think we need it now, particularly if we did the proper diplomacy.
_______


Only an "moran" would say "I would NEVER support a draft." Ever hear of Pearl Harbor? World War II?

A President has to make tough decisions and if ever the country REALLY needed a draft, a President should never pledge to never bring one about.

But you have to be naive to read John Kerry's words above as anything else but a rebuke to the current draft posturing.

[goodhue]

17. thanks for that

these are the types of comments I have in mind when suggesting that kerry has not been unequivocal

[jackstraw45]

19. So you think the US should have sat out WW II? Just curious

If you want a pledge for NO DRAFT EVER from a candidate, I assume you'd feel that the Nazis should be controlling Europe right now?

I'm being sincere...just want to know your limits.

[goodhue]

21. I am against involuntary conscription in any context,

but it does not follow that US should have sat out WWII. Even in a good war not everyone should be forced to be a soldier to kill for their country. Some people feel they could not kill in any context.

Its actually a hard issue for me. My great uncle and his brother were pacifists at Antioch in the 1930s and were jailed as conscientious objectors. They were sent to work camps. My great-uncle was then released after about a year when a medical exam revealed he was asthmatic and therefore not eligible for conscription. So they released him but he & his wife were not allowed to live on the east or west coast, so they moved to Chicago and eventually retreated to northern Minnesota. Meanwhile, his brother continued in internment for a couple years.

In the 1960s my father faked mental illness to avoid draft.

Involuntary conscription violates basic human rights, IMHO.

[jackstraw45]

22. How could the US have engaged Germany & Japan without a draft?

I sympathize with your view and hate the idea of a draft as much as anyone but without a draft, WW II would have been lost. I hate involuntary conscription but I love my country and if we ever again really needed a draft, I'd support making that sacrifice as our grandparents (or parents) generation did.

Before the WW II draft, the army was under 200,000. By 1942 it was over 5 MILLION.

[Kahuna]

7. After the Chalabi debacle, Syria may have to get behind Iran..

nt

[Walt Starr]

11. More accurately: Staying in Iraq=Draft regardless

It matters not who is sitting in the White House. If we remain in Iraq, we must resort to a draft.

[jackstraw45]

15. Not if we re-enter the international community

and actually get an international force in there. It won't be easy but I believe some countries would help John Kerry out of this situation. There is just so much international animosity (for good reason) toward George Bush that a breath of fresh air is needed before allies will come out of the shadows.

[Walt Starr]

20. You just will not get the numbers required

Either we bring all of the troops home or we are in it for the long haul. Long haul = draft regardless of who is sitting in the White House.

[BJ]

18. I don't know why those who oppose a draft...

...aren't as concerned about the dangers inherent with a large standing professional military, as the nation is now supporting.

Aside from the obvious that it is an drain on the national economy, professional militaries inevitably lead to military dictatorships.

The American economic system has been crafted since the Reagan/Bush I administrations to make a military career the first employment option for young men and women, think of all the manufacturing industries that no longer exist in this country. This should be considered treason.

[Comadreja]

24. Even an unaccountable corporate mercenary Army

This one has got to be a first in the annals of RW craziness, but it is the choice Rumsfool will make if a draft isn't instituted. I suppose they will shop for bargain mercenaries in Africa or SA to keep the costs down.

"Where is it written in the Constitution, in what article or section is it contained, that you may take children from their parents and parents from their children, and compel them to fight the battles of any war in which the folly and wickedness of the government may engage itself? "Under what concealment has this power lain hidden, which now for the first time comes forth, with a tremendous and baleful aspect, to trample down and destroy the dearest right of personal liberty? Who will show me any Constitutional injunction which makes it the duty of the American people to surrender everything valuable in life, and even life, itself, whenever the purposes of an ambitious and mischievous government may require it? . . . "A free government with an uncontrolled power of military conscription is the most ridiculous and abominable contradiction and nonsense that ever entered into the heads of men." : Daniel Webster, Speech in the House of Representatives, January 14, 1814

[AndyTiedye]

25. Stop the Crusade!

The only way to do that is to deny it the unlimited supply of cannon fodder it needs.
No draft, no more Crusade!
If there is a draft, Bush* will invade more countries, as he tries to
take over the entire Middle East in accord with the PNAC program for Empire.