God Shows His Sincere Appreciation...

[MrBenchley]

"The Christian music festival Godstock was cancelled after a fast-moving storm destroyed the stage in Comstock, Nebraska Saturday night. Two people were injured.
Thunderstorms and winds up to 70 mph blew through the area around 8:30 p.m. while some 30 people were on stage."

http://www.wowt.com/news/headlines/423052.html

Meanwhile the Dixie Chicks played without a hitch...

[StopTheMorans]

1. looks like even God knows

that Christian music sucks (my sincere apologies to any Christian music fans out there as this is completely based upon my own opinion and can't be proven:)

[Sequoia]

7. But not old time gospel music!

I mean, come on: "Good News, Chariot's Coming", and "On Jordon's Stormy Banks". Now those tunes get my foot 'a tappin'. Otherwise, that so-called christian rock sucks. Man, when I was growing up all forms of rock were banned because the drum came out of Africa and they're all pagans who worship the devil doncha know. What crap that was. Believe me, God likes Hendrix and Morrison far more than those RW goof-ups! ROCK ON!

[MrBenchley]

11. Yup...

But Marilyn Manson went on as scheduled....(vbg)

[northzax]

131. you mean like

Handel's Messiah?

[SweetZombieJesus]

2. Oh Lord, this was hilarious

I live in Kearney, Nebraska, which is about a stone's throw from Comstock, and there was a front page story about the Godstock "tragedy", and several quotes from attendees about how "Satan sent the wind to hurt us!" and that "Satan had our number". My friends at work and I were laughing our asses off at the idea that Satan even knew this crap concert was going on. If he existed, which he doesn't, don't you think he'd have bigger fish to fry?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Devil's only power that of temptation? Since when does he control the weather?

[MrBenchley]

13. Satan did it?

If someone really believed....wouldn't this be a sign that Satan had got more powerful than God...and that perhaps it was time to switch to the other side?

[Brian Sweat]

17. The Christain god is omniscient and omnipotent, right?

So that means that he or she knew this was going to happen and did nothing to stop it.

[JHB]

18. Where was Pat Robertson?

Why didn't he bring his patented Hurricaine Deflection Prayers to bear on this little sprinkle?

Guess nothing was in it for him :shrug:

[SweetZombieJesus]

20. Perhaps if the Christian "rock" groups were playing a benefit for Pat's..

business partner Charles Taylor, perhaps something like "Dictator Aid", he'd be more forthcoming with the good hoodoo.

[JitterbugPerfume]

27. A joke I heard long ago....

A man was walking along a path, when he came upon Satan sitting on a rock, crying

"Why are you crying " the man asked.

Satan replied "do you see that church in yon Valley"

"Yes", said the man

"well",said Satan , " Every time something goes wrong, they blame me"

[Ellen Forradalom]

3. God's expressing himself, but is anyone listening?

Blenheim (NC) church struck by lightning for third time (July 18, 2003)
http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/breaking_news/6333167.htm

Lightning hits preacher after call to God (Forest, OH)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3044178.stm

Frankfurt, IN church struck by lightning
http://www.inareaumc.org/sept02/clinton_county_church_struck.htm

[MrBenchley]

16. Thank you so much for the links!!

The preacher hit by lightning was especially funny....I loved this part: "Afterwards services resumed, however churchgoers realised after 20 minutes that the building was on fire and evacuated."

[DulceDecorum]

52. And the Masonic Lodge came to the rescue

The church did not know where they would be meeting for Sunday worship as I left; however, offers have come in from Michigantown UMC and the Beard Masonic Lodge.
http://www.inareaumc.org/sept02/clinton_county_church_struck.htm

What's the difference between a Christian and a Mason?

[Blue_Chill]

4. Yes let's all laugh at the christians

Where do I get measured for my pointy hat so I can be just like you all.

I swear any misfortune that befalls a christian groups makes you guys leap with joy. It's sick, it really is.

[Brian Sweat]

8. Dude, have you ever listened to "Christian Music?"

We are not talking Gospel Music (the white version of which is bad enough), traditional hymns or classical masterpieces. We are talking about "Christian music" in the guise of modern pop music. It is the most incredibly inane music ever recorded and the people who listen to the music deserve to be ridiculed.

There is plenty of great sacred music that even I, as an atheist, enjoy listening to. I even like some of the traditional hymns like "Amazing Grace", "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" and many more, but the music in question is fraudulant. It is a way for people to get together and say, "Hey look at me, look how happy I am to be a Christian."

[StopTheMorans]

9. with you there 100% ...

"god rock" sucks, hymns, traditionals, etc... are fine.

[Muddleoftheroad]

15. And that is so horrible

For people to get together and say, "Hey look at me, look how happy I am to be a Christian." The shame of it all.

[Brian Sweat]

21. Yes, even your bible says so.

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. A time to dance

Ecclesiastes 3:1,4-5: "There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven. A time to weep, and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain."

[Brian Sweat]

86. I'm not saying that Christians shouldn't get together for a good time.

I'm saying that this is something different. I believe that this music is a form of mind control. I also think that you are being intentionally obtuse.

[Muddleoftheroad]

95. A form of mind control?

You mean like Barry White? Or the Rolling Stones? Or the Beatles? Or Coldplay? Or Aretha?

So, it's only mind control when you don't like the message?

[Brian Sweat]

98. No,

it mind control when it is intended to control minds.

[Muddleoftheroad]

132. Isn't music intended to influence?

Don't music, TV, movies all influence our lives and culture? Why not influence for something good instead of violence and bad behavior?

[StopTheMorans]

139. not necessarily, in fact, most times, I think not

I write music in a rock band, and my stuff is just about my life experiences (mostly about women). that's it, nothing more, just try to make it catchy with lyrics that people can relate to, I'm not trying to tell them to do anything.

[Muddleoftheroad]

150. But it is YOUR world view

If you talk about taking drugs (a whole bunch of music does that), it is advocating a position. If you talk about sex, it is advocating a position. (Or possibly several.)

So talking about God is doing the same.

[StopTheMorans]

152. but drugs and sex are real

and can be proven to be real;)

[StopTheMorans]

153. and I still think that you're obfuscating the issue...

even music that casually references drugs or sex doesn't usually make a point of completely paying homage to it, how many songs do you see that say "praise to our lord crack cocaine" or "let's all give thanks for the fact that we can sleep with as many people as possible". christian music is made EXPRESSLY for the purpose of glorifying god, it's not like that's some sidenote that makes it into the music.

[Brian Sweat]

142. No,

it is intended to entertain and inform.


In my opinion "Christian Rock" is intended to assauge the fears of Christians who are not secure in their faith after an "I'm ok, your ok" fashion. Instead of examining the reasons for those doubts, they listen to the music and block the doubts out.

[rman]

156. so when is the time to show off; "hey look at me..."

.

[Blue_Chill]

28. Ok if you say so then it must be true.

...

[Brian Sweat]

83. It's there and you know it is.

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

[SweetZombieJesus]

What he's saying is that it's largely hollow and for show

Most of the so-called Christians I know would not lift a finger to help the poor and needy, help out Habitat for Humanity, or any Christian groups that actually help in a tangible way. They're too busy sending Bibles to Iran or writing letters to their Congressmen in an effort to stave off the "attack" on marriage by the dirty homosexuals.

[Blue_Chill]

26. Most of the <insert group> I know.........

I've seen that little gem used to justify all kinds of vile behavior.

[Bake]

128. But it's OK as long as it's bashing Christians...apparently

I'm with you on this, I personally resent all this bashing.

How about these (insert your own predicate):
"Most of the Jews I know ..."
"Most of the blacks I know ..."
"Most of the Arabs I know ..."
"Most of the atheists I know ..."

Bake

And while I'm at it, old time gospel music is FANTASTIC. (Some call it "Southern Gospel" music). For those who don't like "contemporary Christian music," and I'm one of 'em, hey, just don't listen to it. They don't have to trash others who might like it.

[Muddleoftheroad]

29. Many

So called anythings don't help, but EVERY church I know -- that includes synagogues and mosques -- does charitable work and holds collections for the poor and other charities. If a person goes to church, then they are likely helping the poor in some way. But many are doing a lot more through their own efforts.

Personally, Habitat is a cool group. Wish I was better with power tools.

And there is nothing wrong with sending Bibles to Iran or anywhere else.

[SweetZombieJesus]

36. There's nothing wrong with sending bibles to Iran?

So freedom from religion is an unknown concept for you? It isn't bad enough those people have to live under a repressive Muslim theocratic regime, you'd like to encourage them to consider a better, Western way of repressing themselves?

If people want to read the Bible of their own accord, that's fine, but sending bibles to Muslim nations is ridiculous. These people have as much desire to learn about Jesus Christ as I do: NONE. And it's remarkably and laughably patronizing of people to think that with all the problems Iranians have, the answer is in THE BIBLE.

[Muddleoftheroad]

38. Freedom OF not from

I know all about "freedom from religion," but I don't believe in it. If you wish to be free of religion, all you have to say is you are not interested and I move on. If you ARE interested, then it is a different matter.

You say it's OK if, "people want to read the Bible of their own accord." But how can they do that when the book and the belief are suppressed? I believe people have a right to read whatever they wish -- including the Bible and the Koran.

Funny, with all the problems Americans have, many of US turn to the Bible.

[SweetZombieJesus]

51. Yeah, and the Bible's a BIG HELP with the mess we currently find ourselves

in.

With each passing day, this circus we call life in America becomes more complex, and the Bible becomes more irrelevant in telling us how to deal with it. How does the Bible help ANYONE when our leader is a born-again Christian, and his base is made up of hypocritical, power hungry theocrats who want to foist THEIR image of God on the rest of us?

When a vast majority of Christians look to people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell as their "leaders", or take up the call to arms against the "supreme evil" of gay marriage while our born-again President bombs the living hell out of innocent women and children, how the fuck does the Bible help anyone?

Your religion was hijacked long ago by people every bit as "evil" as Osama Bin Laden, and yet you still count yourself as a Christian.

WWJD?

[Muddleoftheroad]

54. My religion wasn't hijacked

There have always been evil people -- both religious and not. There have always been false prophets. That doesn't mean my religion has been hijacked whatsoever.

And the Bible remains relevant. And a "vast majority of Christians" do NOT look to Falwell or Robertson for anything other than comedy relief.

[SweetZombieJesus]

60. Which explains why they're both multi-millionaires

Face it, you're in the minority, and the people who join Falwell and Robertson's hateful agenda are the majority. If they were the minority, their influence wouldn't be nearly as pervasive as it is.

[Muddleoftheroad]

63. I know no one who is influenced by them

But we are entertained or appalled, depending.

[Blue_Chill]

58. Vast majority of Christians look up to Falwell

Bullshit and you know it. What's the matter, ran out of arguments so now you have to lie?

The fact remains this thread was a bunch of sickos taking pleasure in the pain of others and you were called on it. Now your all frickin out because you cant stand the truth.

Deal with it.

[SweetZombieJesus]

66. My, that's rather judgemental of you

How utterly Christian of you to make knee jerk accusations against people for finding something IRONIC. I can't imagine why a lot of people have an unfavorable opinion of Christianity as a whole with beacons of light like you as representatives of it. I guess we just can't handle the "truth".

Jerry Falwell is worth millions of dollars, and without the support of many followers, he wouldn't be famous. The backlash against gay marriage wouldn't be so strong if not for bigots like him enjoying massive support from American Christians.

If you want to hate me because I won't believe the fairy tales you take stock in, that's fine, but don't for a minute pretend that the Falwells and Robertsons and Billy Grahams of YOUR church are some fringe minority, because we all know that's bullshit.

[Blue_Chill]

72. so now we go rom most to many 'american' christians

amazing how your story flip flops.

[Brian Sweat]

91. No, you do not have the right to accost me with your religion.

Freedom of religion means freedom from religion.

Does this mean you don't have the right to send bibles to Iran? Well that should be up to the government of Iran, but even if you do have the right, that doesn't make it right. Going to another country and telling them that their religion is wrong is immoral.

[StopTheMorans]

93. Going to another country and telling them that their religion is wrong is

immoral." don't forget extremely pretentious. Trying to convert someone to your religion automatically assumes that you are right and they are wrong, even if they have the same knowledge and access to the same religious information that you do. The pretentious nature of religious is what bothers many atheists (we don't go around sending our "don't believe in god" bibles to christians). By trying to convert people, you are automatically assuming that you know something that they don't, which is extremely pretentious in and of itself.

[Muddleoftheroad]

96. Don't we all do it here?

Try to convert people, I mean? Dean folks try to convert. Kucinich folks try it. Progressives try to bring in the moderates. Moderates try to move the progressives. We all try to convert the lurkers.

But there is nothing wrong if you say here is what I believe, give it a try if you like. My religion can handle that.

[StopTheMorans]

100. we do, but hear me out:

here, we base it on facts. Dean people say " you should like Dean b/c he was A". Or, "Kerry is better than Dean because he has a better record on B". I think that you will agree with me that religion ultimately comes down to faith. Faith is based on your belief in the Bible. Assuming that a large percentage of people you are trying to convert (if you are, I'm not saying you, but any Christian) have read the bible, you are automatically assuming that you are right and they are wrong simply b/c they do not have "faith". You can't argue faith, it's not ultimately logical, it's spiritual/emotional, you can't prove God exists, people can prove that Dean gave a speech against the war in Iraq. It's not pretentious to try and help someone to see your side of an argument if you can bring fact into it. But, if they've already seen the same facts as you, and they form different conclusions, yet you still refuse to see that they have a right to a difference of opinion, then I believe that is EXTREMELY pretentious.

[Muddleoftheroad]

134. Facts

We all have facts on the various candidates, but mostly our actions are based on faith. I don't see a lot of difference. Yes, religion is based on faith as well and I choose to have it, but that is not mandatory in my opinion. I believe they don't have to worship God, Allah or any being at all. They are entitled to that choice.

[StopTheMorans]

137. the choice on whether you choose to have "faith" or

not is ultimately arbitrary, you cannot fully justify "faith" merely by using "facts". Which is why it is pretentious to assume that others who do not choose to have "faith" do not possess all of the same "facts" (possibly more) that you have.

[Brian Sweat]

101. See, the difference is

I don't really care what you believe as long as you keep it to yourself.

[Muddleoftheroad]

135. Why should I keep it to myself?

It is part of who I am. If I were gay, would you say the same thing? I've heard the same thing about blacks like me from whites. ("I know you are black, just don't shove my face in it!") But being Christian and being black are who I am. How can I hide it? Why should I?

[StopTheMorans]

141. you shouldn't hide it...

but you have to realize that people like me find it extremely condescending, it feels like you are saying "i know something you don't know, why can't you see it?".

[Muddleoftheroad]

151. Again

Feel free to be offended. Nowhere in the Constitution do we promise America will be an offense-free nation.

[opiate69]

157. by the same token

Feel free to be offended when I proclaim that religious zealotry is a psychological disorder, and should be treated as such.

[Brian Sweat]

149. It's not the same

I have never had a homosexual knock on my door during diner to discuss the advantages of a gay lifestyle and I have never had an African American approach me at an airport extolling the virtues of melinen enhancement therapy.

[sybylla]

107. No

"Don't we all do it here?"

That is a blanket statement which, as all blanket statement are, is inherently wrong. "All" cannot be in this case because I know you have not asked 30000 du posters if they evangelize.

In fact, I bet there are many DUers in that 30000+ who feel, as I do, that evangelizing for a candidate, like evangelizing for a religion, is a waste of time and bandwidth, and on occasion find it more than a bit condescending, patronizing and offensive.

[Muddleoftheroad]

136. OK

MOST...

[Blue_Chill]

47. Oh please

You are making it seem like sending bibles = forcing your religion on them. It isn't. My muslim friend SHARE their faith with me and sometimes ask why I stay Christian. It isn't a hostile act no matter how many times you pretend it is.

[opiate69]

49. Re:"forcing your religion on them"

One simple question.. have any of these Iranians specifically asked you to send them Bibles? Or are you just doing it preemptively?

[Blue_Chill]

56. and that matters why?

Have I asked to recieve a clipn'save coupons? No. If I don't want them I throw them out.

BTW - I love how all of you have changed the subject, your joy in others misfortune is still there and no less disgusting.

[opiate69]

64. And I suppose

You would say that Franklin Graham is not attempting to force chritianity on Iraqis?

[Blue_Chill]

67. I don't know what Franklin Graham is doing

but I know providing unrequested reading material is not forcing anything. Otherwise I have been forced to join the army since they send me shit all the time.

'Forced' is the key word. If you threaten them or give them no choice but to join then you are forcing. Absent of that you have no argument at all.

[drdigi420]

106. It's just spam for 'god'

The only difference between that and spam for Viagra is: Viagra exists.

[drdigi420]

103. shhh, you'll upset blue chill,

you cant say things like that or you'll offend the fundies

doesn't matter that it's TRUE

[rman]

158. how would you feel if Iran would send Korans to the US?

..probably along with the message that you'd better read it cause it's for your own good.

Any chance of a few christian would get upset over that?

[SweetZombieJesus]

10. Can the holier than thou crap already

These people were blaming THE DEVIL for bad weather. Since when is weather the domain of Satan? Was God taking a nap and Satan slipped behind the controls of the weather machine?

Meanwhile, if it had rained puppies and gold dubloons, these people would have been praising God, and in effect, themselves, for putting on such a wonderful event.

I don't care what religious persuasion these people are, its STUPID and HYPOCRITICAL to blame the devil for an act of nature. There is no Devil, there never was. He's just a whipping boy for humanity to project their weaknesses onto. Started a genocide? Not your fault, clearly Satan misled you!

And trust me, I KNOW these people who attended Godstock. Every last one of them is a raging theocrat who wants to see all us sinners under their bootheels.

[StopTheMorans]

12. watch out for the lightning bolts that are sure to be coming

for you you wicked atheist god-hater!:)

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. Does the devil speak to you?

That's the only way you would know he existed for sure. Since I doubt he does, lack of proof is no proof one way or the other.

[SweetZombieJesus]

19. So by that logic, unicorns and leprechauns might exist?

I mean, I've never seen them, but that doesn't mean they don't exist, right?

Satan is now, and always was, as fictional as the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. He's a scapegoat for all of man's inhumanity to man, and you'd think that here, in the beginning of the 21st century, people would start to get that, but no, we must maintain our brimstone strawman at all costs.

[Muddleoftheroad]

23. Mythology and reality

Much of reality is based in myth. Did unicorns really exist? Since I am NOT omniscient, I can't say. But given how often species are killed by man, I don't find the concept unreasonable.

Nor do I find the concept of ultimate evil unreasonable. But that is my belief. Why does it bother you so?

[Brian Sweat]

94. There is no evidence of Unicorns in the fossil record.

If such an animal existed in the last five thousand years, there would almost certainly be evidence. The truth is, sometimes people make shit up.

[Muddleoftheroad]

140. The truth is

Scientists are still finding new types of dinosaurs too. Science knows what it knows, but it doesn't know what it doesn't know and assumes anything in the latter category doesn't exist. Talk about hubris.

[opiate69]

144. "Science knows what it knows, but it doesn't know what it doesn't know "

But, what science doesn't know does not automatically default to "God did it". And even if it did, what makes your God the "One" as opposed to the other 30,000 or so gods mankind has worshipped over the millenia?

[Muddleoftheroad]

146. It doesn't have to

That comes down to belief. As for which God, perhaps they are all or mostly all the same God. Time will tell.

[Brian Sweat]

154. Dinosours when extinct 64 million years ago

The fossil record for animals that lived that long ago is sparse at best. The fossil record for an animal that went extinct in the last five thousand years is bound to be quite extensive.

[Blue_Chill]

24. Well look around

it's the 21st century and we still have people enjoying the misery of others.

[SweetZombieJesus]

30. And that's a man with horns and a pitchfork's fault?

Yes, surely Satan is standing behind all evil-doers, whispering in their ears how to maximize their evil potential.

It's a crock, and it always has been. All it takes is just a smidgen of logic to realize that Satan was an invention of mankind to absolve itself of any blame for the deeds they do. Why, we're all just pawns in a game of good and evil! Surely its not our fault if we perpetrate a Holocaust, it was all the fault of that chap with the cloven hooves whom no one has ever seen! It's not me you want, it's Beelzebub!

Satan is to humanity as Iraq is to the Bush administration.

[Muddleoftheroad]

34. Free will

For the millions of Christians in America and elsewhere, we believe God not only created mankind, he gave us free will. We can fall victim to the temptations of the world -- to satan -- but it is OUR choice, our free will. If we do evil things, it is our responsibility. That does not mean that we don't have something egging us on, encouraging us to do evil things.

[opiate69]

37. Freewill

But, your all-knowing, all-seeing God created us knowing full well that we would "do evil things",and yet he still punishes us for doing exactly what he created us to do...sorry, but this freewill bit is a convenient little trump card you christians can use to fall back on when logic and reasoning fails.

[Muddleoftheroad]

41. Our choice and yours

To do right or wrong. Living a moral life and doing good works pays off in the end. It is not an easy path. But the path you choose is your own.

[opiate69]

45. You don't get it..

According to your book, your God has already scripted every detail of every life that has ever been, or will ever be on this planet. And yet you seem to think we can somehow choose to alter that script? That leaves you with a God who is decidedly NOT infallible, nor omnipotent as the Bible claims. So, if the Bible is wrong on that issue, what other inaccuracies does it contain?

[Muddleoftheroad]

48. Not inaccurate

Just because you know something will happen doesn't mean you are making it happen.

I do not live from a script, maybe you do. I have free choice in my actions.

[opiate69]

55. Well..

"Just because you know something will happen doesn't mean you are making it happen."

That goes against every notion of God's ultimate powers. If God knows ahead of time that I will never bow down to his egomaniacal need for worship, then why create me in the first place?

[Muddleoftheroad]

59. You'll have to ask him

I don't pretend to have answers for everything. If I get there before you, I'll put in a good word.

[Brian Sweat]

102. Why do I have to ask him?

[Klapaucius]

113. that's the other than truly annoys me....

You're making the assumption that you're going to end up in heaven.

Militant Agnostic...

I don't know... and neither do you.

[Muddleoftheroad]

138. Nope

Just assumption that I get to the Pearly Gates. Anything after that is out of my control.

[Blue_Chill]

53. You don't know what you are talking about

God allows us to do as we see fit and judges us on our choices. Did we choose to help the needy and spread love or turn our backs and harm society. It's not a trump card to anyone other then bigots that wish the concept didn't exist so they would have an easier time in arguments on the subject of religion.

[opiate69]

62. No, it's circular logic at it's finest..

He judges us on choices which, by nature of his omnipotence, he already knows the outcome of! How is that any kind of choice? If I were to choose path A when God had already created me to choose path B, well, there goes his omnipotence.

[Blue_Chill]

65. You shouldn't bring up 'logic' at all

He doesn't create you for a path. He knows all option available to you but not which you will take. Such is free will.

[opiate69]

68. He knows all option available to you but not which you will take.

Then he is not omnipotent as the bible claims... so, as I've asked before.. if the bible is wrong about his omnipotence, what else is it wrong about?

[Blue_Chill]

73. So if you are wrong about one thing

Does that mean you are completely full of shit? If not don't use that argument with the bible. K?

[opiate69]

76. Yes, I will use that...

considering the christian faith claims the Bible to be the inerrant, perfect word of God. If one can prove a single inaccuracy, then the entire damned thing can be tossed out because it no longer meets the criteria for being inerrant and perfect. Of course, that isn't even close to being the only inaccuracy, but that's best left for another thread, I think.

[StopTheMorans]

77. exactly

if you're going to use circular reasoning, then the whole argument must be perfect, and it goes a little something like this:

The Bible is the word of God.
God speaks only the truth, so everything in the Bible is true.

Either the bible IS the word of God, or it isn't, or the rest of the argument is invalid.

[Blue_Chill]

79. trying to set the rules?

Because I don't play by those rules, and if you want to put your fingers in your ears and shout "Either the bible IS the word of God, or it isn't, or the rest of the argument is invalid." till your face turns blue so be it.

Enjoy

[StopTheMorans]

82. if you are going to argue "reasonably"

then those are the rules, you can't have everything every way just b/c you say it's so. If you can't argue "logically" and you refuse to abide by "reason", then you are wasting everyone's time. Either the Bible IS the word of god, and it is all true, or it is NOT the word of God, and therefore, none of it is true. If you want to use circular arguments, you have to accept one of those suppositions, otherwise, don't use circular arguments.

[Blue_Chill]

87. So now you define reason?

Please.

You haven't a clue as to what the bible is about other that what you have picked up watchin Fundies or heard from anti-theist. Pick it up read it and decide for yourself what the deal is.

Oh wait, now I'm going to be accused of trying to convert you.....

[StopTheMorans]

90. nope...

and thanks for the "read the bible" talk, but I was a practicing catholic for 15 years, I have read the bible front to back many times, I have heard the repeat in gospel every 3 years (the time period between when a gospel passage is repeated for the homily inthe catholic church), and I have seen as many arguments for the bible/religion as you have. Do not assume that I am ignorant simply to try and ignore the fact that I just made a valid point. You cannot use circular logic/reasoning unless you accept ALL of the suppositions in the argument. All or none, you can't have it both ways with circular reasoning. And please do not refer me to the bible again, as I said, I may know more about it then you do:)

[Blue_Chill]

118. You may know more about it

but like most, you missed the point.

[StopTheMorans]

119. didn't miss the point thank you

"read it for yourself and see what the deal is". That, as best as I can tell, was your point/deal, and I didn't miss that, I've already read it, and as far is I can tell, the deal is that I don't believe that it is the word of god. that good enough for ya?

[drdigi420]

111. a fundie calling others fundies

i think a certain level of hypocrisy is a pre-requisite for being a christian.

[Blue_Chill]

116. Preach on!

:D

[Blue_Chill]

78. Fine then

Show me where I claimed the bible is the "inerrant, perfect word of God" and that if you can "prove a single inaccuracy, then the entire damned thing can be tossed out because it no longer meets the criteria for being inerrant and perfect". Or am I not a Christian? Because you are telling me that there is a blanket rule for all of us and I am telling you that this notion of yours is horse shit.

[opiate69]

92. so,then...

you admit the Bible is not inerrant, and therefore is not the Perfect word of God? Why devote your life to it then? And, do you then pick and chose which parts to follow and which to ignore?

[Blue_Chill]

115. Honest questions so you get honest answers

you admit the Bible is not inerrant, and therefore is not the Perfect word of God?

I admit the humans who translated and passed it down over the years are imperfect and such imperfections are reflected in their work.

Why devote your life to it then?

I devote my life to doing what I think is right.

And, do you then pick and chose which parts to follow and which to ignore?

Of course I do. The bible shows CHANGE. Jesus changed old beliefs there for you can't go by rules that predate his teachings.

[StopTheMorans]

117. I admit the humans who translated and passed it down over the years are im

perfect and such imperfections are reflected in their work." if you admit that humans could have translated one part wrong, then the could have translated any part wrong, including all of the parts you consider most important.

[Blue_Chill]

120. That could be true.

And if I was a literalist I would be FREAKIN out. However I think the bible is a mystery that each person must solve for themselves. How one interprets the text is a reflection of ones own soul. Thus Fundies read it and feel justified to steal and make themselves rich while preaching hate. That is what they see in those imperfect writings. While other read it sell all their stuff and move to Africa and care for those that the world ignores.

[StopTheMorans]

123. so basically you're saying

that the bible can tell you whatever you want it to tell you? That, in a nutshell, is one of the main reasons that I discount it, many people have used it for justification for a variety of different things, and they are all open to interpretation because none of them were "God", and thus, unless they were speaking for "God", they all have equal claim to interpret his words as they see fit.

[Blue_Chill]

125. Close but not exactly

As a Christian you are supposed to follow Jesus 1st all other second. So while anyone can find a line or page that justifies anything, they rarely ask themselves the question.

"what would jesus do"

If you really want to debate a fundie just gather Jesus quotes about the poor and judging others and if he quotes someone else ask him who is the son of God, the person he quoted or Jesus.

[Brian Sweat]

97. Actually it means he is not omniscient

which the bible already claims.

Supposedly, their god is omniscient. That means he knows every thing that is and everything that will come to pass. If he doesn't know what will come to pass, he is not omniscient.

Supposedly, their god created me and if I do not kiss his ass properly, he will send me to hell.

So, knowing that if he created me, he would have to send me to hell, he went ahead and did it.

[SweetZombieJesus]

40. Egging us on?

Yeah, we do have something egging us on to do horrible shit, and its not Satan, its HUMAN NATURE. Human beings are fearful of things don't understand, and when that fear gives way to hate, we switch into caveman mode and start bashing and smashing away. Satan doesn't have anything to do with this, its just the way we are. We're hypocrites, we're savages, and we're also pious and holy and civilized. As a species, we're bipolar, and if God made us in his own image, then God must be bipolar as well, and if the softening of God between the Old Testament and New Testament (angry vengeful God to loving, understanding God) is any indication of God's mindset, then no wonder we're so fucked up as a race.

But if you want to keep believing in a catch-all Bogeyman like the Devil, feel free.

[Muddleoftheroad]

44. I am free

Which of course is the whole point here. I am free to believe as I wish. Free to speak as I wish. Free to think as I wish.

You don't have to like it. You can hate my God or my religion. You can believe or hope that Satan doesn't exist. It's all free will.

[Blue_Chill]

50. No in case you missed it

I was saying that your surprise in humanity not having come as far as you had hoped was contradictory to your stance on this issue. You still take pleausre in your fellow mans misfortune. Granted it isn't about color of skin now it's religion. Always a reason to hate someone.

[SweetZombieJesus]

57. Finding something ironic and funny =/= taking pleasure in misfortune

I don't hate the people at Godstock, I just pity them for being so ignorant as to believe that the Prince Of Darkness took time out of his busy schedule to blow down some scaffolding and end their concert prematurely.

I didn't miss anything, especially not your typically Christian way of trying to paint me as "evil" for thinking its stupid to believe that Satan controls the weather.

And besides all that, what misfortune befell these people? They didn't get to see more generic, bland Christian rock? Gee, my heart really bleeds for them, what a tragedy.

[Blue_Chill]

61. Weren't you the one bitching about 'holier-than-thou' crap?

and now you tell me you pitty them? lol. pathetic.

[SweetZombieJesus]

70. There's a difference between holier than thou and smarter than thou

Your whole problem with this thread is that people are laughing at Christians, and you're so vain as to take it as a personal insult on you. Were you at Godstock? Do you think Satan caused a thunderstorm? Probably not, but you jumped into the fray nonetheless, eager to give a verbal beating to any of us horrible people who find it FUNNY that these people are blaming Satan for weather.

None of this was directed at you at all, and yet you still chose to get all uppity and offended on behalf of all Christians everywhere and start throwing out ad hominems against all us dirty "Christian bashers".

Pretty soon your attacks will devolve to the point where they become even funnier than the concept of Satan controlling the weather.

[Blue_Chill]

74. actually you found it funny that this happened to them

and then also noted the blaming satan. And if that wasn't enough now you are saying that you are smarter then christians. More generaliztions and flip flops. Is this what I can expect from you all the time, if so let me know so I don't waste my time.

[sybylla]

69. Everything seems so black and white with you, Blue Chill

Hating someone is completely different than thinking they are an idiot. The problem isn't hatred of the religious, it isn't bigotry, it is in not understanding. And when pressed for answers, the religious always fall back on "its a choice" or "you have to have faith" or "free will to choose" and cry bigotry when someone questions their religion or, in this case, even the beliefs of someone else.

Or is it that you really do believe a tornado was foisted upon Nebraska in the midst of tornado season by the devil just to smite the believers?

[Blue_Chill]

75. That's not true

If someone questions my faith I give an answer. If someone starts a thread so that everyone can laugh at the christians I post the truth about what it is they are doing.

Not my fault if you don't like it.

[sybylla]

80. Never said I don't like it.

In fact, I love your posts, BC. You put the cheese on my nachos! :toast:

I would also point out that no where in the original post was anyone laughing. Mr. Benchly was pointing out the irony in the entire situation. Another poster pointed out the comment that the tornado was a work of evil.

Not my fault if it really is funny and you don't like it.

Oh, ya, and by the way, just because many of us found the irony in the whole situation funny, doesn't mean we wish christians would be hurt by more tornadoes (more black and white assumptions). That, of course, was unfortunate and I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing them well.

[Blue_Chill]

81. The irony is certainly there

I'm Catholic so I allowed myself a chuckle knowing that I could always feel bad about it later. :D

[drdigi420]

108. skin color is not a choice

picking which myth to believe is a choice.

Why can't we make fun of people who have made such silly choices?

[Blue_Chill]

121. So then it would be justifiable to hate people for what they believe?

That's insane. Think of what you are saying before you spew it out on these forums. The results of such a belief are dangerous to your own group.

[Brian Sweat]

145. Absolutely

I hate people who believe that the holocaust was a good thing. I hate people who believe in white supremacy. I hate people who believe it is ok to bash the French just because they refused to go along with our little war.

[FlaGranny]

33. Does God ever speak to you?

Isn't that the only way you could know he existed for sure? Why do the religious, of all persuasions, believe that they are the only people who know God's will?

Edit added sentence.

[Muddleoftheroad]

35. I don't pretend to know God's will

I merely try to live a good life as much as possible. I acknowledge my failings and mistakes and try to do better. I pray. I worship. But no one knows what God is thinking.

[FlaGranny]

43. I hate to hit and run,

but I have to go to work. I'll check back later. You asked someone in the above post if Satan spoke to him and that that was the only way he'd know if he really existed. I asked you the same question about God.

I also try to live a good life. I don't worship because I can't believe that if there really is a god he would want to be worshipped. I have a hard time believing that, because, if I were God, I would be appalled if someone wanted to worship me.

[Muddleoftheroad]

46. But you aren't God

Me, I have faith that God exists. I believe. That is easily enough for me.

[SweetZombieJesus]

71. Quick question

If God created us in his own image, why should we worship him? Doesn't that mean we're worshipping ourselves? And isn't that pride, and in effect, a sin?

[Muddleoftheroad]

89. Again

You'll have to check with God. He doesn't tell me everything.

[chefgirl]

88. Ummmm.......

"There is no Devil, there never was"

Excuse me, SZJ, but can you show me some proof of that??
The answer is NO, you can't. No more than I can prove the existence of God to you, nor would I try.
Sure sounds to me like its you who are attempting to 'force' your beliefs on people now.


-chef-

[Bake]

129. Really? You know every last one of them? Personally?

Zombie, you've got your own brand of "holier than thou" crap going. It's the same thing, and I don't like it when it comes from either side. Maybe in your case we should call it "smarter than thou" or "more secular than thou."

Most of us on here don't wish for bad fortune/death/etc. to befall the freepers (except when we're really p.o.'d). How about a little less rejoicing in the bad fortune of those whose religion you don't agree with.

Have we heard you making fun of Muslims for their religion?

You're giving atheists a bad reputation.

Bake

[drdigi420]

99. Yes, lets.

Laughing at christians is good healthy fun.

[Blue_Chill]

It's also a good way to lose voters

and show the world you're a bigot. Enjoy!

[Ellen Forradalom]

130. It's not anti-Christian Schadenfreude.

We're poking fun at the irrational notion that God controls all aspects of the natural world like a giant machine. Have you ever seen on the TV news an interview with a disaster survivor? They frequently say that God saved them. Does God hate the neighbors whose house was flattened by the tornado or swept away by the flood?

The weather is not a 'sign from God,' it's the weather, pure and simple. Otherwise, why would God hurl bolts at his own house?

[StopTheMorans]

133. thank you for saying

clarifying this point. I swear, 10 or 15 posts on this thread have completely misconstrued this very point as virulent christian-hatred. Well-stated:)

[roughsatori]

5. I once heard a Preacher say about Christian Rock

"That may be Rock but it ain't Christian." I believe the opposite "That may be Christian but it ain't rock."

It is funny, if that happened at an atheist convention the "Christian" channel would use that as God expressing his lack of protection for heathens.

[Muddleoftheroad]

6. But

You wouldn't see that attitude here. Funny how you do here when the shoe is on the other foot.

[Clete]

22. The weather has to do with the fact it's Nebraska not God.

I'm trying not to trample on anyones beliefs here, but this kind of superstitious thinking about God punishing those he doesn't like with an act of nature is positively stone age in concept.

[sybylla]

39. Yeah, as stone age as thinking the devil brought a tornado to Nebraska

in the middle of tornado season to try to thwart believers. Perhaps I'm not following very well but I believe that was the original point of the thread.

on edit: spelling

[SweetZombieJesus]

42. Yeah, it's a good point

It's fucking NEBRASKA. It's windy in Nebraska all year round, so obviously God hates Nebraska. I know I do.

[Hubert Flottz]

31. Gawd is not a happy camper these Daze!

He/she don't like other people doin' his/her killin' for him/her and leavin' him/her to do all the sortin'! Gawd is tired of doin' Bush's shitwork and Bush takin' all the credit

[Born_a_Democrat]

32. the only Christian Rock (maybe) I like is

"Awesome God"...

I mean I like the tune

[Brian Sweat]

110. It's musically trite and the lyrics are inane.

[Lengsel]

84. ignorance

You idiots are just as prejudice as republicans are and you are a bunch of hyprocrites. You wonder why the right attacks you. You are the exact same thing as them -- intolerant. All of you guys are speaking in ignorance. There are some awesome christian bands that better than Manson, Limp Bizkit, Korn, or whatever.

Try these guys:

Lengsel
Living Sacrifice
Extol
Still Breathing
Soul Embraced

[drdigi420]

104. being better than manson, limp bizkit, or korn

is no great accomplishment.

[Blue_Chill]

124. 'where is the love' Black Eyed Peas

That those in DU went so crazy about is a religious song.

People killin’, people dyin’
Children hurt and you hear them cryin’
Can you practice what you preach
And would you turn the other cheek


Father, Father, Father help us
Send us some guidance from above
‘Cause people got me, got me questionin’
Where is the love (Love)

[Brian Sweat]

148. Not all religious songs

are "Christian Rock." Just because a rock song has a Christian theme, that doesn't make it "Christian Rock." "Christian Rock" is a very specific genre.

[anti_shrub]

85. All I know is

Those Worship for Life commercials that run nonstop on Cartoon Network from like 2AM to 5AM are pretty creepy. I guess they want to show crowd clips to show people being moved by the music, but all you see is a sea of zombie-fied faces with upraised hands.


As far as the whole Satan argument goes, I always found it odd that Christianity seems to be powered more as a fear of the Devil than of worship to God. I mean everything not whitebread pure is "Satanic"...

[drdigi420]

105. It's hard to avoid hypocrisy

when your whole belief system is based on lies.

[anti_shrub]

109. Lies might be a bit harsh

I believe that religion was created as a way to explain things that weren't understood thousands of years ago.

Your crops got destroyed? Since they had no Doppler radar back then, assuming it was because you displeased an invisible spirit makes just as much sense as any other reason.

As time goes on and science advances, there's not much left to leave to religion to explain except for the timeless question, why are some humans so evil? Since the thought that a member of your own species could be royally f'ed up, it's easier to say that the devil made him do it.

[Brian Sweat]

112. Harsh, but if you do not believe something to be true

you must believe it to be a lie.


If you believe something to be true, but the facts are against you, you end up with cognative disonance. This, I believe, is what this music is all about. It is a way for people who have doubts to assuage their fears and ignore reality.

[ewagner]

114. Theological arguments aside

Christian Rock is simply a market. A market in which some musicians find a niche.

As for those who are advocates/devotees of Christain Rock....we'll to each their own.

No big deal either way.

[Muddleoftheroad]

143. That must be hard on you

What do you base such beliefs on that they would be lies?

[oneighty]

122. If some one

had bothered to pay attention to the weather forecast

ALL of this may have have been prevented.

But the show must go on as scheduled, common sense

must not interfere.

180

[bicentennial_baby]

126. Was Stryper there?

The Yellow and Black Attack!!

[patrice]

127. Way to GO "god"!!! - eom

P.S. It feels a little stupid to be hoping no one was hurt when you look at what is going on in the world.

[Swede]

147. There is no proof God exists,there is only faith that He exists

Also,there is no proof UFO's exist either.

[Brian Sweat]

155. "Also,there is no proof UFO's exist either."

Yes, there is, but there is no proof that any of the documented UFO are actually from another planet.