This picture says it all. Note the vehicle.

[lebkuchen]

Don't know the unit yet. Can't read the patches.



U.S. soldiers stand over an unidentified covered body lying on the ground after an attack by unknown gunmen on a U.S. Army patrol near Sadr City, Baghdad, on Friday.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5057770/

4 U.S. troops killed, 5 injured in Baghdad
Fighting reported between Americans, Sadr militia

Reuters reporters had earlier seen soldiers dragging away the bodies of several troops from the smoking wreckage of a vehicle destroyed by an explosion on a main highway.

[kalian]

1. What about the Hummer...?

its standard issue for the military. If they want to use it...fine,
but civilians have no reason to be driving in them.

[lebkuchen]

6. uh, there's no protection

May as well use this. It would be cheaper.

[rinsd]

26. How can you tell?

Is there a specific look to an armored Humvee?

[trogdor]

29. Is that a Trabi?

Seen one once parked on top of someone's garage in Stuttgart.

[ArkDem]

2. The reason for the attack was that they were driving a humvee.

Even the Iraqis know how wasteful they are.

[maggrwaggr]

23. hey, watch your mouth. The company that makes Hummers could sue you

remember Oprah and the beef?

[soleft]

3. Image reminds me of Willem Dafoe in Platoon

[lebkuchen]

7. This picture speaks to me as well.

Iraqi boys play in front of a mural of the Statue of Liberty (L) and a photograph taken in Abu Ghraib prison. The United Nations denounced the treatment of Iraqi prisoners held by US-led coalition forces as a 'stain' on efforts to bring freedom to the country and urged that steps be taken to boost protection of civilians.

[yardwork]

30. It reminds me of the photo of the girl at Kent State.

I really didn't want to have to live through this again. The common thread is the Bush family.

[Bandit]

4. They look like Marne Div Soldiers

And what is wrong with the Hummer? :shrug: Marne Div is Third Infantry Div. I thought they had left the premises.

[lebkuchen]

8. I think maybe the 1ID, but we'll see.

[markses]

15. If in Baghdad, most likely 1st Armored Division

Although a bunch of 1AD troops were shifted down to deal with Kufa and Najaf. But we'll see.

[Bandit]

19. No there is no Big Red One visible

The patch on the helmet looks like the 3rd ID patch

[jean]

5. Why can't we go after Humvee like BBV has gone after Diebold???

Where the hell did good old American know how go? Why can't we outfit our troops with strong, effective hummers instead of these wussy, tin can deathtraps???

Has anyone been able to compile a list of vehicles our troops were riding in when they were killed or maimed? A good graphic correlating deaths/maimings with humvees would be very useful on the floor of the Senate and all over the internet, for starters. And bumper stickers.

I still say Humvee should take stateside vehicles they're now having trouble selling, outfit them with the proper armor and camouflage and ship them to Iraq free of charge.

What a boost to their corporate and product image: heroic vehicles SAVING LIVES instead of crappy, wimp vehicles that allow our people to be blown to bits at every opportunity.

[the Kelly Gang]

10. that would involve Corporate America building strong protective

vehicles which considering the budget should be a snip..but why bother when Armanents manufacturers can get millions for one rocket that blows up and has to be supplied again.

It's the profit motive..troops on the ground don't matter !

Unless of course you had a tough Commander In Chief who busted heads for his troops instead of businessmen.

[jean]

12. but why can't WE grassroots the hell out of Humvee and make loud noise?

bush and his minions will NEVER bust heads for our troops -

(by the way, did you get to see the Fahrenheit 911 trailer? There's a clip of bush smirking in a tuxedo at a dais, making opening remarks at a fundraiser saying something like, "Here we have the 'Haves' ... and the 'Have Mores' ... "Some would call you The Elite. I call you My Base." )

Anyway, you're exactly right about the profit motive - these cowards are not going to stand up as honorable Americans and do their utmost for the country.

I'm whining about 'why doesn't someone start a grassroots campaign against Humvee' and am too ?lazy? to do it myself. First I better look around and see if someone has got something going already (besides the campaign to furtively slap anti-hummer stickers on hummers, that is).

[HysteryDiagnosis]

11. "Why can't we go after Humvee like BBV has gone after Diebold???"

What a boost to their corporate and product image: heroic vehicles SAVING LIVES instead of crappy, wimp vehicles that allow our people to be blown to bits at every opportunity.


They are hard at it.... too little too late? These articles are about the actual armoring of existing units.... dunno about the co. doing it from the getgo.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4353961/

http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2003/12/armored_humvees.html

http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/iraq/2004-05-12-armor-humvee_x.htm

[jean]

13. thanks and welcome to DU! The usa today piece goes into detail

http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/iraq/2004-05-12-armor-humvee_x.htm


U.S. Rep. Ted Strickland, D-Ohio, wants the military to order more armored Humvees and get them to Iraq faster. He has written a letter to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld asking why the Pentagon hasn't ordered production increased to maximum capacity.

"It's common sense to conclude that there have been unnecessary deaths and serious injuries because our soldiers have not been properly equipped," Strickland said. "I don't sense the urgency on the part of decision makers to get this problem solved."

Maj. Gary Tallman, spokesman for the Army on weapons and technology issues, said that in the fiscal year that begins July 1, the Army has earmarked $168 million for 818 additional vehicles. The Army wants to have 4,400 armored Humvees in Iraq and Afghanistan, up from the current 2,700.

"We can procure as fast as we have the money to do so," Tallman said. Tallman said the Army has also purchased 8,000 armor kits that will enable soldiers to shield Humvees that are already in Iraq and Afghanistan. "

Sounds like the legislators have gotten the ball and the funds rolling and Rumsfeld is NOT knocking heads and following through - these two companies armoring existing humvees and building them from scratch seem to say they can get it done as fast as necessary.

[graham67]

14. I read on Defense Watch

that the soldiers are improvising their own "up-armored" humvees with whatever parts they can scavenge.

[Nyati13]

22. GM

There is no company called HumVee. ***edit, maybe they are sold as "Hummer brand vehicles" in the US civilian market, but the trucks are still just a GM product*** The HMMWV utility vehicle is manufactured by General Motors.
The Humvee is a good, and very useful medium cargo carrier. That is what it was designed to do. Addition of armour to the Humvee would drastically decrease its load capacity, and render it useless for its primary role.
The problem in Iraq is not that the Humvee is vulnerable to fire, the problem is that US troops are being sent to patrol an occupied nation, and they aren't being provided with armoured patrol vehicles. The US Army has never bothered to purchase armoured patrol vehicles, so there aren't any available at all. (Vehicles that do currently exist, the French and Germans both have very good vehicles available right now, the VBL, and the Dingo, respectively.)
Adding armour to the Humvee is like the proverbial "lipstick on a pig". The Humvee simply is not the correct design for an occupation patrol.

Jeremy

[newyawker99]

27. Hi Nyati13!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Nyati13]

28. Thanks! n/t

[jean]

31. Your clear explanation indicates that, once more, Rumsfeld did not plan

for proper patrol capabilities for the occupation. We now know he is loath to make plans based on possibilities or the prediction of future outcomes - maybe he shut down any discussion of HumVee transports NOT being used for patrol - you can read about this here:

Blind into Baghdad, by James Fallows
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2004/01/fallows.htm

Fallows refers to pre-invasion planning and offers this link (maybe their report would detail patrol vehicle needs - interesting to see if it can be documented):

RECONSTRUCTING IRAQ:
INSIGHTS, CHALLENGES, AND MISSIONS
FOR MILITARY FORCES IN A POST-CONFLICT SCENARIO
(US Army's Strategic Studies Institute)
http://www.carlisle.army.mil/ssi/pubs/2003/reconirq/reconirq.htm

US Army War College - homepage
http://carlisle-www.army.mil/

Jeremy ~ welcome! :hi:
Your excellent (and patient) explanation helped clarify the issue for me.

[Hubert Flottz]

9. I'll bet I know what he is not saying!

"Bring It On!"

[markses]

16. I think he's saying "Hey! I told you no pictures, motherfucker!"

n/t

[lebkuchen]

17. If it's 1AD, he's saying, "Get us the eff out of here, you WH @ssholes!"

That's what the spouses are saying.

[markses]

18. Looks like MPs

The man with his arms out has an MP armband, as do the guys in this photo:

[lebkuchen]

20. Thanks.

I have CNNI on now, but still can't get the ID on the victims.

Living on a base with a deployed unit personalizes the casualty count.

[elf]

21. Two pictures - very sad!!!!!!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/040604/photos_ts/mdf58...





http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/040604/photos_ts/mdf58...

[elf]

24. sorry

the pictures are gone, I don't know why!

[Redleg]

25. Why the hell are those soldiers bunching up? Keep your distance!

I have seen that numerous times on the news. Those guys need to keep their distance. I suppose there might be a perimeter around them but I can't tell.

[Ripley]

32. He is saying to the camera holder....

Get the FUCK AWAY OR WE WILL DESTROY YOUR EQUIPMENT!

Not... Please help me God.