How is the invasion of iraq any different than hitler's invasion of europe

[radwriter0555]

??? I keep thinking of how similiar all the events are to the hitler's regime.

Especiallly when I see articles on the front page of the LA times saying how the US army is squashing attempts at resistence.

What the fork happened to the happy rackies who were so overjoyed to be liberated?

Or is this the fair and balanced military? Just kill em all?

[qb]

1. There's no oil to speak of in Europe. nt

[robbedvoter]

35. There was steel+ an industry to take over

[IranianDemocrat]

2. When Hitler first invaded Poland...

Poles were living happily, Iraqis werent living happily when we invaded.

[Maple]

6. Yup

and you're making them REAL happy now eh?

[IranianDemocrat]

8. Just because I don't support the comparison then I support the war?

and "you're" using excellent logic now.

[Maple]

10. The original comparison is valid

the supposition that the invasion was to make people happy is absurd.

[Fovea]

24. Point taken

But I think that for consistency's sake, we now should put a lot of countries on notice that we are coming after them next... And neither Syria or Iran would be on the top of that list IMO, unhappy places like Liberia, North Korea, Indonesia. But rather, we will probably move swiftly to 'stabilize' Venezhuela, Angola, Kazakstan and Uzbekistan.

The key all along has been the explosive rise of the automobile in China. Couple that with the oil peak, and get set to see some real money get made by somebody... even the unrest in the Gulf aids that strategic move, as it takes competitors out of the bidding at a critical point. Like nailing your buddys shoes to the starting block.

I think our policy toward both of those countries has been clumsy and heavy handed, and when Saudi Arabia blows, Iran might well turn out to be among the most stable of its neighbors, along with Turkey (goddess keep them aligned with Europe) having already established a national debate on the subject of theocratic government. This failure of the Saudi Royal family could well produce another miltarist expansion of Islam just like the previous crusade, and for many of the same reasons-- cultural warfare, economic exploitation, and the percieved need to defend ones faith against a corrupt foreign power.


Iraqi oil will be going to China, where the price is high, and you don't have to try to move it through Israel, which will be a free fire zone. That is assuming we dont get kicked out of Iraq.

The spigot is going to start to be squeezed to America from the Gulf States, thanks to Bush. Good thing I live in a state with oil.
Good thing I cycle. Soon I will have a lot of company, SUV owners who cannot afford to drive it, and cannot give it away.


We will probably have to invade Venezhuela and/or Mexico.
All of this, thanks to George W Bush.

[radwriter0555]

29. How happy are the imprisoned, oppressed incarcerated, tortured,

murdered, jobless, broke, hungry, homeless, powerfull, telephoneless iraqis NOW?

[Beetwasher]

32. The Poles were living happily? Where did you ever get that idea?

Please explain what makes you think that...Are you familiar with Polish history?

[Yupster]

3. If this was the same as Hitler's regime...

you would be in Dachau or dead for typing your initial post.

[Minstrel Boy]

12. that wasn't the question

The question didn't raise the comparison of regimes, but of invasions.

Poland and Iraq were both invaded and occupied to be exploited for the benefit of a foreign power, under the guise of a "preventative war" of self defence.

[tom_paine]

15. That's more of a 2050 thing, Yupster

For the moment you are correct.

But, once travelled down, the Totalitarian Path (the Bushevik Path) has a clear, hisorically inevitable end (almost inevitable).

Yes, for the moment the Busheviks are "kinder and gentler" than their spiritual forebears.

But let a Great Depression happen (God Forbid) and you will SEE where we currently are on the Nazi Germany scale.

[poskonig]

4. Poland actually *had* weapons of mass destruction.

...wait a minute..... :think:

[Drifter]

5. Hitler probably ...

actually believed that Europe was out to get him. He preemptively invaded countries to protect the German people.

AWOL certainly did NOT believe that Iraq was an emminent threat to the US. He preemtively invade Iraq so that his Oil buddies could secure the Iraqi oil fields (under the guise of eminent threat). AWOL Lied.

Cheers
Drifter

[el_gato]

14. i don't think so

I don't think Hitler believed Poland was a threat.
He was using classic scare tactics to consolidate his power.
Just like *.

[DarkPhenyx]

7. Hitler did a better job. n/t

n/t

[Brian Sweat]

17. Hey, they both turned around the economies in their countries.

[DBoon]

9. Or like?

Mussolini's invasion of Ethiopia?

Japan's invasion of Manchuria?

[Brotherjohn]

11. I will say this...

There are more similarities between the U.S. and 1939 Germany than Iraq and 1939 Germany in the current situation, although the right would have you believe that Hussein is a new Hitler.

WE are the ones who launched and unprovoked invasion against a sovereign nation with a military that was far inferior to our own. WE are the ones holding out the right, and threatening, to do so elsewhere. WE are the ones who hyped a threat that is now proving to be non-existent. Many countries were guilty of appeasement regarding our aggressive act, a la Chamberlain in 1939.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. Well said.

Whether Iraq, as tyrannized by Saddam, was "happy" or "unhappy" is irrelevant. There are a lot of tyrants in the world, and plenty of unhappy exploited people. There are even people here who are unhappy and exploited.

Hitler launched his aggression against Poland based on the alleged "subjegation" of the Germans who were citizens of Poland by the Poles. So, a manufactured incident occurred, in which "Poles" attacked Germany and Germany acted in "self-defense". Poland was easily crushed by the Germans with Soviet help. Resistance to the occupation was dealt with brutally.

Parallels are many.

Final note: Hitler lost. A parallel in the making.

[radwriter0555]

30. Oddly, for the first time in a couple YEARS, your simple sentence

gives me HOPE.

You're right. HITLER LOST...

Ultimately, good triumphed over evil....

[quinnox]

13. I'm not a history buff

But I would ask the following questions.

Was Poland being controlled by an absolute dicator?

Did Poland invade a neigboring country and take over the valuable resources?

Was Poland under U.N. Sanctions?

I was not in favor of the Iraq war either, a history person would be able to tell you if the comparison holds up.

[radwriter0555]

18. NO, poland wasn't...

the comparison is on the invasion and oppression of iraq. The US has taken it over, solely to exploit its resources.

The US, under bush, is imprisoning people there, with no trials, no lawyers. There are prison camps for those deemed a problem.

That's what I'm seeing.

Looks like every rule of the Geneva Convention is in the crapper.

[DuctapeFatwa]

19. Did you mean to make Iraq under Saddam sound like Sharon's Israel?

I guess it is hard not to, come to think of it...

[quinnox]

22. Heh, I'll leave that one alone

n/t

[atreides1]

27. Here Is what I was able to find Out

Poland was under the control of a ruling clique of Colonels led by
Marshal Edward Smigly-Rydz. They took control of Poland in 1935 upon
the death of Marshal Josef Pilsudski.

1918 - Marshal Josef Pilsudski becomes Head of State of Poland
1919 - Polish Army against Red Army
Poles capture Wilno, Lwow, Minsk

1920
April 21 Poland and Ukraine sign alliance against the Soviet Union
April 25 Polish-Ukrainian forces attack Bolsheviks in hope of
securing Ukrainian independence.
May Pole launch offensive on Kiev.

The Russians pushed the Poles back towards Warsaw, and in the battle
for the city the Poles were victorious.

1926 - Pilsudski stages a coup d' etat. A left-wing military regime
is established in which Pilsudski allows parliamentary govern
ment while he controls the military.
1930
September Pilsudski disbands the Parliament, and orders the arrests
of all opposition leaders.

1934 - Pilsudski proposes a war against Germany by Poland and
france before Hitler rearms, but is rebuffed by Paris

1938 - Polish troops occupy Cziesyu in Czechoslovakia

The UN was not formed until after WWII

One other note Poland invaded and took control of Vilnius the capital
of Lithiania in 1918.

I found the site with this information by typing in Poland 1938.
A lot of information about Poland's history after WWI and leading
up to WWII

[clar]

16. It's different

Read some hx. Much of Hitler's philosophy was predicated on the German's "need" for expanded living space as well as the reclamation of land lost to the Versaille treaty. German perception, not entirely off-base, was that the nation had been treated shabbily by the winning powers after WWI. Deep rooted resentment and an economy in the tank were fertile soil for Hitler's agressive stance.

This miserable little war is an attempt to remake the ME, and neuter radical Islamic factions. It's as misguided and stupid an effort as one can possibly imagine. It's unjust. It's backfiring, but it's not historically accurate to compare it with Nazi agression. It's far more apt to compare current US actions to British imperialism during the 19th and early 20th century.

[Zero Gravitas]

21. One Difference

The Nazis were competent but extremely brutal occupiers.

Bush* and his cronies are incompetent and only incedentaly brutal.

[Clete]

23. The bones of the invasion are exactly the same

because they come from the same type of thinking, fascist thinking. Hitler fabricated an excuse to invade Poland by dressing up Germans in Polish army uniforms and then having them attack Germans. Voila they invaded Poland without any resistance from Western Europe because he seemingly had a valid reason. Bush cooked up the WMD argument because they might attack us. Voila we attack Iraq, while the rest of the world looks on.

The method is exactly the same. The thinking is exactly the same. If you think he is through, think again. He needs the war distraction and our fear to stay in power as well as get the oil we need. Hitler's invasion of Europe was exactly for the same reason. He needed the fear of the German people and the distraction of war so he could stay in power and do a lot of his dirty work, rounding up Jews and so on without the rest of the world looking on. He also needed a lot of Poland's raw products like coal.

[jody]

25. I'll bite, HOW? eom

[ElementaryPenguin]

26. It's NO fucking different at all!!

eom

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[radwriter0555]

31. So clinton/nato bombed belgrade so his best friend's oil company

could make a lot of money?

Wait, that doesn't make sense.

Did clinton's administration determine to occupy belgrade and take it over completely and then engage in 'nation building' and re-establishing government and economics?

Of course not.

There's no oil in belgrade. Hitler bombed it to kill off the gypsies, and NATO bombed it to stop milosevic.

Why did bush invade iraq?

For the money.

[sinkingfeeling]

33. There are parallels here.....

I have been reading books on Hitler's rise to power in the 1930's since Bush began his 'evil axis' crap. I have scared myself silly as a result!! It's how the Germans reacted to the 'fear' of being 'attacked' in allowing Hitler to take away their rights, how they began to accept the disappearance of their neighbors and even turned in fellow citizens that broke the 'rules' (listening to foreign radio for example). Dissent was eliminated over time.

Last night I was reading about the German advance into Russia and their treatment of the 'partisan' fighters within the occupied territory....night time raids of villagers' homes, rounding up and shipping off anyone who might be giving support to the opposition, holding women and children hostage to get to the 'wanted' men, cutting their electricity off, etc.... Does this not sound familar?

I think W must have gotten a hold of the 'Nazi Handbook' that grandpa Preston must have had. I truely believe we are on the brink of full blown fascism.

[Clete]

34. That handbook is known as "Mein Kampf".

It is a rambling and barely readable tome of Hitler's philosophy.
Buried in a lot of schluss is Hitler's plan for taking over the world.
I found his thoughts on propaganda especially interesting especially since he admires how the Western powers spread propaganda during WWI and he urges the Germans to emulate them. The take over of our media by the RW is chillingly similar to his taking over the German press, eliminating anyone who didn't agree with him. Book burning also took place during his regime. We haven't gotten to that yet, but stay tuned.