Why do we have so many "help me with this arguement" threads?

[mot78]

Compared to FR and otehr RW websites, we have a number of these stupid threads. DUers should realize that the people they're arguing with READ DU and will think that we can't even come up with our positions.

[KC21304]

1. I may be wrong but I've always thought

many of them are meant as a way for the trash to be read here. Kind of in your face thing. Not all of course.

[Skittles]

4. that's true in many cases

but it's disturbing when well-established DUers do it. After they've been here a while they should be able to refute such laughable garbage themselves.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. Some might be trolling, but many are earnest requests

Depends on how they are put to me...but I am happy to help someone overcome another's rebuttals where I can.

BTW...I am also happy to suck the foul wind out of a freeper when they pull that shit...then get them tombstoned for pulling it

[wryter2000]

3. I find it very helpful

There are a lot of false impressions and outright lies out there. I think it's helpful to be able to pick the excellent minds we have here in order to clarify our own thoughts and arguments so that we can present the truth to the world outside DU.

I know today I discovered an extremely helpful column in one of the threads today. I hope they don't stop. And I hope I can continue to ask for help in the future.

[jean]

6. I do, as well. DU does offer excellent pickings.

[ibegurpard]

5. Who cares what people who read this site think?

And of ANYTHING to take issue with, I find it incredible that someone would be annoyed by these types of threads.

[Village Idiot]

7. If you visit the FR and FD websites, you will discover

soon enough that the members are not half as friendly or open as those at DU...I have been banned from FR 3 times as an "America Hater" just because I posted some of Bush and Cheney's greatest hits...

I have noticed a much greater feeling of fellowship and freedom (and pointless alliteration) here at DU! ;^)

[Village Idiot]

8. oops

mym mistake - make that "pointless consonance!"

[trof]

9. Fighting lies with truth.

Maybe "argument" is the wrong term.
Case in point:
I got an e-mail this a.m. castigating Clinton/Gore for cutting military spending/programs. "That's why we don't have what we need to do the job in Iraq."
I Googled and Snoped and nothing relevant came up.
I put the question here, and in a few minutes had the answers. It was actually Bush 1 and his SecDef Cheney who started this. Remember "the peace dividend"?
Also, much of the cutting was done by a repug congress.

I'm a guy who knows a little about a lot of things.
Luckily, we have folks here who know a LOT about a few things.
DU is an invaluable resource that I feel fortunate to have access to.
It ain't "stupid", bub.
It's taking advantage of resources.

[NuckinFutz]

10. At least DU'ers are taking in other opinions

and taking from a variety of sources, rather than pulling their arguments out of the posteriors. Freepers will continue to do what freepers do, regardless of how or what we do. I say we keep on getting as much information as we can, from whatever sources we can; it's what separates us from the cretins.

Additionally, not all of us have infallible memories, or magnificent stockpiles of archives. I just consider DU as another resource for research.

[phaed]

13. I'm mainly a lurker, but

the difference between the FR type boards and DU, SC, etc. is that posters actually have something to say most times. The FR types generally post things such as, "Ditto!" or remarks about seeing that someone who has posted something they don't like gets turned into the proper authorities as a terrorist. They lack critical thinking. I see no reason why we can't ask for help in an argument or with understanding an issue; that's what these boards are the best for. A troll can be spotted with speed by frequent posters and called out. I rely on these boards for the best up-to-the-minute news, views and commentary.

[NuckinFutz]

19. Exactly, and welcome to DU.......eom

[Trajan]

11. Sharing the wealth ...

Some do not do well in arguments (arguments, as opposed to arguements) when confronted by the sneaky, fallacious blather a righty pumped up on a lifetime's worth of Hannity-Rush inspired nonsense can spew ...

I have seen Carville AND Begala BOTH ignore valid and DEVASTATING lines of argument while pursuing weak responses against GOP lies ...

I wouldnt condemn those who ask for help: it is a great way to clarify the issues, and to show how one CAN overcome the blatant, lying bullshit and bring some sunlight into the arena of ideas ....

Perhaps you are too harsh ?

[kentuck]

12. Mommy..he hit me and said I didn't know who discovered America...

Well, maybe you should stay home just a little longer and read your homework, Billy...

[LoZoccolo]

14. It helps us counter the "keep them dodging lies" strategy.

They often throw out a lie that it will take us some time and effort to counter, and keep us busy doing that. The "help me with this" threads significantly reduce the amount of time and effort needed to counter these. I like them actually, if they're something that can't be found on Snopes. Or even if they can be, more people get to know about Snopes eventually. Remember, if we don't counter the stuff, it's more likely to get latched onto by someone who doesn't go and check stuff for themselves.

[trof]

21. Exactly. See my reply above.

[Forkboy]

15. Oh no,the Freepers might think something bad about us!

Mommmmmmmmyyyyyyy!!!!!!

[Az]

16. The left is not clearly defined

Many on the left are not sure about their positions. They know the right is wrong but they do not have ready easy answers for why they are wrong. The left has few leaders standing up and spelling out the case for our positions. It is to be expected that some do not know the pitfalls in various arguments and naturally seek the help of there fellow liberals.

The right by contrast has a very organised structure spelling out exactly how to derail the standard liberal arguments. They may not understand the arguments or even be aware if the information they are using is accurate but they are given arguments to run out there and confuse the left.

An example. I was talking to a right wing libertarian/republican. He was going off about how more laws implies adding confusion to the system. He went after Clinton claiming that during his presidency more laws got pushed through. I countered with the fact that the Senate was in the hands of the right and that they were the creators of the laws. To which he countered that Clinton had passed the most Executive Orders of any president in history. Not having any information on this issue I was forced to back off.

So I did some research. Seems the government keeps a handy record of all the executive orders issued by presidents since Hoover. They are even numbered sequentially. So I added the totals up. Of the last 3 presidents Clinton certainly was the winner. Having passed more than twice the number of either Bush. But they are both 1 term presidents. So what about Reagan? Reagan passed more Executive Orders the Clinton (not by a lot by it is more).

So I went back to this guy and asked him what his source was. Turns out to have been an article in the local editorial column from a reporter with ties to the Heritage Foundation. Showed him the data and watched him squirm.

The left simply put does not have an active advocacy campaign going on. The right has a very well funded and defined collection of agencies pushing their agenda on the people. There is no consensus on the left of what we even stand for other than being nice and caring. As long as this is the case we will get shut down by fallicious arguments from the right simply because there is no effort to refute them in any organised fashion coming from the left.

[booksenkatz]

17. Maybe they're looking for links

So many DUers have a wealth of stuff bookmarked. I've never asked for links yet, but if I ever needed one, or wanted to know where I could learn more about something, this is the first place I'd come to ask!

[KuroKensaki]

18. That's among the reasons for DU's existence..

A sounding board for liberals. A think tank, if you will. That's why we don't allow conservatives--we're not a debate board, or a flame board (though we occasionally become both), we're a place where liberals can come, get other liberals' opinions, sort out their own, get heads up to information, etc.

A lot of times when someone asks for help what they really mean is 'I can rebut this but I need the links and information and such to do so.'

[CaptainClark23]

20. A valuable resource.

Making sure we got the facts right, and that we can back them up by citation. Learning frameworks of debate and language with which to make our collective case more efficiently. Giving eachother the skills we need to address these issues in our own communities, where it counts.

We can sit here all day and impress each other with our knowledge and cleverness. It don't mean shit if it stays here. Each "help me out" post helps out more than the requester. This information is being carried away and disseminated.

I cannot see any possible downside to that.