Liberal Activists Lukewarm On Kerry At Democratic Rally

[Solidarity]

Liberal activists lukewarm on Kerry
Need to beat Bush is meeting's theme
By Mary Leonard

Boston Globe Staff
June 4, 2004

WASHINGTON -- Liberal Democrats say they are organized, united, and determined as never before to oust President Bush from the White House. But when more than 2,000 of these progressive activists from across the country gathered under a "Take Back America" banner yesterday, it was Howard Dean, not John F. Kerry, who stole their hearts. Kerry declined an invitation to address the conference, which was organized by the Campaign for America's Future, a progressive group with strong ties to organized labor.

Borosage acknowledged that "a huge number" of the liberal activists attending the three-day meeting agree with independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader's call for withdrawing US troops from Iraq -- a position Kerry does not endorse -- but "remarkably few" in the end will vote for Nader, who Borosage said was "on a fool's errand" as he pursues the presidency again.

In seeking the support of independent voters, Kerry has played down his own record as a liberal Massachusetts senator, expressing support for civil unions but not gay marriage and suggesting he could nominate antiabortion judges. His focus on reining in the federal deficit, and the musings of campaign aides that, as president, he might bring Republicans into his cabinet, also make liberal activists uneasy. Kerry also supports continuing the military occupation of Iraq at least until the country has a stable government.

But the threat from Nader loomed over the meeting. Jorge Rogachevsky, a professor of Latin American studies at St. Mary's College in St. Mary's, Md., said his support was "drifting" to Nader again because he believed Kerry was putting forward a right-of-center agenda, rather than reaching out to progressives.

"I won't back a right-wing Democrat just because I hate Bush," Rogachevsky said.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/kerry/articles/2004/06/04/liberal_activists_lukewarm_on_kerry/

[blm]

1. Only an idiot would believe Kerry is right of center.

No surprise there are faux lefties dissing Kerry and ginning up controversy in their vain attempts to keep the left divided. The GOP has been doing it for decades.

[AntiCoup2K4]

13. And what would you call his pro Iraq occupation, pro Sharon....

slightly whitewashed PNAC foreign policy? What would you call his voting record of the last three years, since the Coup in Florida??

There's nothing liberal or progressive there. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

[Sparkly]

19. Do you stand up for Kerry

when people attack him for standing up to Bush on the $87 billion?

I think you should review his voting record and positions.

[Nlighten1]

20. Never mind that!

Conform and vote for Kerry!

:hi:

[blm]

23. Go ahead...put obstacles in front of the man

who investigated and exposed more government corruption than ANY lawmaker in modern history. He's used to it.

[Nlighten1]

31. Hmmm

I am putting obstacles in front of Kerry?

Oh, I forgot, I made him vote for the war didn't I?

And I guess I got him to support Sharon.

Silly me.


I've been busy haven't I?

[blm]

34. Fostering discord on the left during an election is not an obstacle?

You are welcome to explain how you concluded that dumping on Kerry at this time is a productive exercise to get rid of Bush in November.

[Nlighten1]

37. I'm dumping on Kerry because I am don't agree with Kerry?

I personally believe a ham sandwich could beat Bush this Novemeber. The polls we hear in the news are largely inflated numbers for Bush. I personally know many Republicans who tell me they won't vote for Bush again. They won't vote for Kerry either but that means they are staying home and not voting.

This election is Kerry's to lose. And he is going to have to majorly fuck up to do it.

This same sort of "get in line" mentality you are displaying happened last year during the primaries.

Conform
Conform
Conform

Bleh

No thanks. You might be happy with that sort of lock step attitude but it rubs me the wrong way.

[blm]

44. I never said get in line, and never would.

What I would like to see is PRODUCTIVE posts that rid this nation of George Bush and his cronies. If a post is counter productive to that goal it is perfectly wiithin bounds to point it out.

Any post that makes Kerry out to be the bad guy is a benefit ONLY to Bush.

It is a duty to point out faux lefty rhetoric to those new to politics who never saw the work of Lucianne Goldberg, David Horowitz, and their ilk who infiltrate the left to spread discord and suppress the vote.

[Nlighten1]

45. If you want productive posts...

that make you feel good about Kerry perhaps you might want to look elsewhere.

I will continue to speak my mind about Kerry's policies. If they don't fit into your world view that is just tough.

I understand that getting rid of Bush is an important goal. I will be voting for Kerry for that reason. That doesn't mean I have to LIKE Kerry. But I will be voting for him because I dislike Bush more than I dislike Kerry.

However, if you want me to be a syncophant like a lot of Kerry's supporters here, it won't happen.

[blm]

49. Constructive criticism of Kerry is helpful. RW innuendo and memes

or faux lefty lies are gonna get called out.

You never see me jump on a post that criticizes Kerry constructively.

I try to be patient with those who are just ignorant and have no idea about Kerry's record of investigating and exposing more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history. The media and the faux lefties downplay it or ignore it outright so new activists have no clue.

[Nlighten1]

59. Well, we will have to agree to disagree.

I know that Kerry was somehow involved with Iran-Contra, an ordeal where almost EVERYONE got away free of charge, but what other areas has Kerry exposed?

I agree that RW innuendo and memes should be called out. Are you accusing me of spreading them?

[library_max]

61. Sing along with library_max.

Oh, the Kerry-bashing threads are frightful,
But DU is so delightful,
And since you can't make 'em think,
Let it sink, let it sink, let it sink.

[AntiCoup2K4]

52. Your error is in assuming that anyone who has issues with Kerry's policies

..and or actions/inactions, or votes, for that matter, is "new to politics". I certainly am not.

The fact is that Kerry is following the Bush/neocon agenda in these areas and that's simply wrong. You cannot spin it to be positive. There is nothing defensible about a war built on LIES. There is nothing defensible about a barbarian butcher like Sharon. Not to mention his tribute to the Berlin wall. Kerry cannot take votes from Bush on these issues, because the sick deluded fucks who agree with such actions will vote for Junior to continue them.

Kerry CAN,however, lose the votes of democrats/liberals/progressives who oppose PNAC imperialism, no matter how they try to whitewash it with a new name. Therefore, shouldn't he be worried more about getting the votes that should rightfully go to a Democratic candidate, instead of pandering to Freepers and Busheep?

[Nlighten1]

63. Exactly...

But they want to argue that Kerry's is somehow a "kinder, gentler" imperialism. They will claim that Kerry wants to Internationalize it and bring in other countries...but so does Bush...

[blm]

65. Yet you are devoted to someone whose positions are not significantly

different. Certainly not enough to warrant your extreme views of the two men.

Please show me where Kerry's support of IWR and subsequent critique of its implementation is significantly different than Dean's support of Biden-Lugar and his subsequent critique of Bush's implementation of war?

Please also show where Dean and Kerry's positions on Sharon and Israel are so significantly different that it warrants your devotion to Dean and loathing for Kerry.

[hippiegranny]

73. so not rubbing YOU the wrong way

is so much more important that getting rid of bush. ok. i guess we see where your priorities are.

[blm]

21. I'd say he was adjusting to the reality of 9-11 and trust his over 30 year

record to be the TRUE measure of the man.

I believe in FULL assessments for accurate measuring.

Knee jerk reactions are for the naive and immature.

[AntiCoup2K4]

60. The "reality of 911" according to WHO?

The reality of 9-11 isn't even truly KNOWN. We have the Bush Criminal Empire's manufactured version of the story, but as you -and one would assume Senator Kerry- know damn well, the holes in that story are big enough to drive a Hummer through.

Furthermore, as you are so fond of pointing out, Kerry knows the criminal history of the Bush Criminal Empire as well as anyone. And even if one might have given Junior the benefit of the doubt, assuming he wasn't like his father, his grandfather, his uncles, and his brothers, that illusion certainly would have perished in Florida in December 2000.

As far as comparing his full 30 year record, that's exactly what I have been doing. How does a guy go from protesting one unjust war 30 years ago, to authorizing one, and promising to continue the occupation and send more troops to a war even more unjust? Why does Kerry not believe that his own question from 1971, How do you ask a man to be the last to die for a mistake? applies to the current situation?

Your candidate needs to explain why he has done a complete 180 degree turnaround in this area. The Voters deserve an answer, and if they don't get one, they might not consider John Boy worth the risk.

[Nlighten1]

66. The FULL assessment of 9/11

would show that the "official" story, one you obviously must believe, is a load of mythological bs.

Come on, you really believe the official line? "Everything has changed".

[blm]

71. No. But I've been monitoring terrorism and the Taliban years before 9-11

and was well aware of the need to counter their growing strength in the region.

There is also the need for ANY effective politician involved in governance to deal with the reality of 9-11 on this country.

Ignoring either is a one way ticket to Ineffectiveland.

[Nlighten1]

76. Hoo boy...

Your comments sound like they are right off of the White House website.

I would venture to say that your version of "reality" regarding 9/11 and mine are very different.

I believe the "war on terror" is a completely manufactured war. The US no longer has the USSR to hold up as a bogeyman so along comes Al Qaeda...now we have another threat to scare the people.

Now we have politicians all to willing to go along with the charade of the threat. And a populace all too willing to go along with them.

The idea that you can win a war on terror by using military might is sublime idiocy.

[blm]

95. So you agree with me and Kerry that terror is a law enforcement issue?

A law enforcement issue that uses special forces as back up for serious confrontations as when Bin Laden was surrounded at Tora Bora.

BTW...It's insulting to many who have been tracking terror for so many years, to assume that we speak in line with the Bush White House. Didn't you understand Clarke's testimony? Bush did NOT make terror a priority. Gore would have and there probably would have been no attack on the scale of 9-11.

Try reading the Hart-Rudman report presented to Bush at the end of Jan2001 after 2 years of study and work.

[LoZoccolo]

2. Wonder how they are on Bush*?

Seems that some of them like him enough to get him elected.

[mzmolly]

5. Seems that way. It's apparently ok to sit on our collective progressive

asses letting Bush get the OO again, because Kerry is not a perfect human being.

Edited out *some* of the sarcasim. :P

[mzmolly]

3. What about a Right wing inde like Nader?

:shrug:

[sniffa]

4. roy moore

send him a note urging him to run on the constitution party ticket.

[robbedvoter]

6. Please! leave me the word "liberal"! I already rejected "progressive"

because it was hijacked by these selfrighteous a*holes - now Boston Globe is calling them "liberals"? And are you on DU exclusively to to the bush/Nader bidding? (believe me, it's a common goal)

[Forkboy]

7. People are voting against Bush more than for Kerry it seems

And while that's all well and good for this year I fear it may not bode well for Kerry in 2008.

[freetobegay]

8. When some people finally realize that Dean is not running for President

Thay will be better off.

[Forkboy]

9. Out of left field

comes the Dean slam.Who's obssessed with who I wonder.

[vi5]

10. Out of left field?

And I quote:
"But when more than 2,000 of these progressive activists from across the country gathered under a "Take Back America" banner yesterday, it was Howard Dean, not John F. Kerry, who stole their hearts."

When something is directly from the article that was posted, and in fact the first paragraph of the portion of the article that was cut and pasted, then it's not exactly "out of left field" now, is it.

I don't even care about the issue of Dean vs. Kerry itself, but it definitely wasn't out of left field.

[Forkboy]

15. You are correct

My apologies to Free.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

27. Don't apologize.

The slam is out of left field. Dean was there urging people to vote for Kerry. The only person quoted who supported Dean in the primary indicated she was voting for Kerry in the general. And the only person quoted who said he was voting for Nader in the general gave no indication that he even voted in the Democratic primary, much less that he voted for Dean. Kerry was invited to this function but did not/could not attend. Dean was a speaker and was warmly received. Just because "free" wants to fall for the writer's spin at the beginning of the story and then go even beyond that to suggest that people who supported Dean in the primary are out of touch with reality, doesn't mean you were wrong. The slam was out of left field, even if Dean's name was mentioned in the article. Looks like Dean is more interested in unifying the Party than "free" is.

[freetobegay]

11. Just read the first paragraph.

Does make one wonder.

[Forkboy]

14. Ah Jeezuz...sorry Free

my eyes went zooming right over it.My sincere apologies for jumping on you.

[dsc]

43. How dare Dean go and campaign for Kerry?

Shame on the man. It is clear he is only doing so to foster discontent in the Kerry camp. Evil evil man.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

75. This guy could give a shit about Dean...he is posting anti-Dem crap

because it's easier than saying vote for Bush on DU...and one can pull all kinds of shit as long as they do so under the pretense of being progressive.

[salin]

12. I will wait to hear a first hand account

of the respective receptions - there seems to be a whole lot of effort in the press to drive bigger wedges among those left of center that I have grown to be skeptical whenever I read stories that seem to focus on it. I know the divisions are there ... but the compulsive reporting always leaves me wondering if there isn't additional (spun) emphasis on this point as an effort to work towards depressing voter interest.

I will ask one who was in attendance for a first hand account before drawing conclusions.

[sangha]

22. It's funny how some of the more leftist posters

accept what the media whores tell them, so long as it fits in with their preconceptions. Maybe they think that, unlike the "sheeple", they are immune to it.

[Sparkly]

24. I don't even think it's about being leftist

I know several leftists who recognize Kerry's as liberal as we've had in a long time, and realize the importance of electing him. I don't think preaching and whining about Kerry is about being more "left" -- frankly, I think it's about being more narrow-minded, short-sighted and sometimes just plain dumb.

[sangha]

True, but

the poster who started this thread has been known to complain about Kerry's conservatism, which leads me to suspect that they consider themselves to be, at the least, pretty liberal.

[Sparkly]

35. I do know what you mean

and yes, it's usually presented not only as liberal, but as "lefter than thou," if you know what I mean.

[blm]

26. I'm a lefty for 30 years and am tired of the faux lefties

who refuse to put Kerry's entire record and accomplishments in context.

[sangha]

29. Even more tiresome

is how they complain about how the media manipulates public opinon, but then believe the media whenever they agree with their preconceptions. *Then* the media is being an honest.

[buddhamama]

83. oh, take a number already, and stand in line with the rest of us

you're not the only who's Tired.

i am tired too. Tired of people expecting me to check my brain at the door so someone else can do my thinking for me.

some typical dialog around here

Kerry said in a speech today, "I am believer in God."
someone comes along and questions, "What's Kerry on record civil liberties, the separation between church and state".

and the typical response

"basher" "that's not what Kerry said, let me explain it for you, let me interpret it for You" (since the rest of us obviously can't think for yourself or read apparently)
"lefties, Naderites" "Kerry's the nominee, now sit down and shut up"

I will challenge any of you Kerry supporters to find a Post of mine
where I knock Kerry. I even held my breath when he gave tacit approval to Israel's assassinations, though i vehemently disagreed.

I will not fall in line with group think.
The man has record and i can read, and hear him when he speaks.
I don't need help. But, rest assured, if i should, you'll be the first one i call upon to guide me through my misconceptions.
There are issues where i disagree with the MAN--it's bound to happen.
Oh, how tiresome to have to point this out to y'all.
I have never agreed with any Politician 100%.

When he gets my vote in Nov it'll have nothing to do with the browbeatings.

[tandot]

16. "right-wing democrat" ....bwahahaha ...

thanks for posting, I needed a laugh

[TexasSissy]

17. Yes, I've seen this on this DU board. Some of the more liberal or

progressive people in the Dem. Party seem to back Dean...even now. I have a couple of friends who are still going to vote for Dean for President, even though Kerry is the nominee. Some Kucinich supporters are still backing him instead of what they consider to be the more moderate Kerry.

This is old news. And putting this info out there for the public to see may actually help Kerry win the Independent votes he needs to in those battleground states.

But I wish we'd all stay on the same page, just for this short span of time, so that we can get Bush out. Kerry's not my first choice, either. But the choices now are either Bush or Kerry.

[MadHound]

18. Not suprising at all

Given that the mantra this year of ABB, how can you crank up those of us on the left with a candidate who is in favor of more corporate tax cuts, continuing the quagmire in Iraq, and relegating the working public to serfdom via "free" trade?

Look people, you have pretty much fearmongered and browbeaten those of us on the left into voting for the ham sandwich in order to get Bush out of office. Don't expect us to actually LIKE the man or his policies though. Also, don't expect us to shut up when and if he takes office. We WILL be holding his feet to the fire on several issues, especially the Iraq war. Don't like that, tough shit, we don't like having a candidate shoved down our throats who has so far demonstrated little concern for the left or the issues that drive us. So deal, OK.

[Carolina]

32. right on, Mad

Iraq poisoned the Kerry well for me ages ago... Just last night, CBS news showed swing voters in PA and the big, make or break issue for several of the those interviewed (who BTW voted for the Chimpster in 2000) was IRAQ. They are sliding away from Bush and want us OUT of his 'qwagmire' but don't see that happening with Kerry either :shrug:

So, you're right: "We WILL be holding his feet to the fire on several issues, especially the Iraq war." That and a lot more.

The diehards will flame us and flame on, but as you so aptly said: "Don't like that, tough shit." :pals:

[FlemingsGhost]

25. God forbid we express this sentiment at DU...

"Dem bashers" and "Nadrites," right gang?

It's all good, though. Most won't vote for Nader... and Kerry and the DLC know they have us by the short hairs. Ain't politics a blast?

[Solidarity]

28. Like To Comment But Better Not

I'm not a Green Party member and I'm not working on Ralph Nader's campaign. I just believe in fairness for Nader and I really don't like the character assassination campaign directed against him or the attempts to prevent people from voting for him if they wish.

However, I can't really comment on these matters if I want to continue posting on DU. This is not my website and I'll respect the rules and procedures here. They are fair and I'm not challenging them.

So I'll let things slide and post on other issues.

[FlemingsGhost]

30. "Resistance is futile... you will be assimilated."

:hi:

[sangha]

36. Poor baby

Too bad the only censorship going on at DU is in your head.

[FlemingsGhost]

38. I wrote nothing of censorship.

If it was implied, I did not effectively communicate my position.

My apologies for having inconvenienced you.

[Solidarity]

40. Not "Crying" About The Ruling At All

Your probably one of those who complained about my posts to Moderators. But, if you have any questions about DU's rules in this regard you should address them to the moderators. I can't speak for them.

But, like I said, the warning I received from a moderator concerning my posts on Nader was reasonable and fair. So I'm not going challenge that directive and won't be starting any more posts in defense of Nader's character and right to run for office.

Enough said on that.

[sangha]

46. Your false accusation makes your lack of credibility clear

I have not hit the alert button on any of your posts in this thread. In fact, I don't remember ever hitting the alert on you, though it may have happened in other threads.

[Solidarity]

55. Say Again

Huh? You may have hit the "alert" button on me in other threads but my suggestion that you may have complained to moderators in other threads is false?

Well, that certainly makes a lot of sense!

Yikes!!!!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

80. So it's fine when Nader slams Democrats but when they give him a dose

they are being terribly closed minded....I love the double speak

[Cocoa]

33. the whores STILL trying to use Dean against Kerry

they must be desperate. ;-)

[NoPasaran]

39. Is this as close as we come to a Nader thread today?

The Fifth Column must really be running out of bullets.

[Renew Deal]

41. Jorge Rogachevsky is an idiot.

He should save the trouble and vote for Bush.

[FlemingsGhost]

42. Interesting debate technique

Jorge Rogachevsky says, "I won't back a right-wing Democrat just because I hate Bush."

You call him an idiot.

[sangha]

48. Very disingenous

Rogachevsky said more than "I won't back a right-wing Democrat just because I hate Bush." and you know it.

But you'll make that false claim anyway.

[FlemingsGhost]

51. I'm curious...

When is name-calling ever appropriate?

Is that not the strategy of one who has nothing intelligent left to say?

:shrug:

[Renew Deal]

54. There are many other ways to describe Jorge.

You can pick another term.

Entry: idiot
Function: noun
Definition: stupid
Synonyms: ass, blockhead, boob, booby, cretin, dimwit, donkey, dork, dumb ox, dumbbell, dunce, dunderhead, fool, halfwit, ignoramus, imbecile, jackass, jerk, kook, meathead, mental defective, moron, nincompoop, ninny, nitwit, pinhead, pointy head, simpleton, stupid, tomfool, twit, yo-yo

But you are right, he might just be uninformed.

[FlemingsGhost]

58. How about this term:

A registered voter.

[Solidarity]

57. Name Calling Is OK

It is not only appropriate but required when saying anything about any presidential candidate who is not George Bush or John Kerry.

Wonder who that might be?

It's kind of like a loyalty oath.

[Renew Deal]

53. Anyone who thinks Kerry is a right winger is either uninformed or an idiot

Not just Jorge.

Kerry's rating according to the American Conservative Union.



John Kerry (D)

2003 2002 Career rating
13 20 5

Yep, he's a real right winger. :eyes:

[FlemingsGhost]

56. Well done!

You disputed this man's point of view with researched information.

For the record, I agree. Jorge is uninformed.

[pinto]

47. Dean voiced strong support for Sen Kerry:

from the same article

"I'm going to do everything I can to get John Kerry elected president of the United States,"

Dean said in a booming voice to a standing-room-only crowd of grass-roots activists who had been energized by his bid for the Democratic presidential nomination.

<snip>

"I understand there are policy differences," Dean said, as he implored the liberal audience -- a group that on the campaign trail he called "the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party" -- to compare Kerry's record as a decorated combat veteran, as an enviromentalist, and as an advocate for the middle class to what he described as Bush's inferior record in those areas.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

50. Yes, he did.

Threads like this only serve to divide us. The writer of that article had an agenda to push, but the facts are not on his side.

[Q]

62. Valid complaints on both sides...

...of the left and 'mushy middle' of the Dem party. But let's be clear about one thing: it's the 'new' Democrats who have divided the party...not the liberals or progressives. Liberals/progressives have stayed with TRADITIONAL Democratic values and principles while the DLCers have moved the party to the right in order to please the so-called swing voters and corporations with fistfuls of cash in exchange for legislation.

- Liberals and Progressives are rightfully pissed that the party they grew up with has been taken from them and traded for campaign bucks and favors from corporations. So lets stop playing this silly game where the 'new' Democrats complain that those they call the 'leftist fringe' won't compromise their party to death.

[FlemingsGhost]

64. Excellent point, but in the name of fairness...

As our populace ages, is it becoming more or less politically conservative?

[Nlighten1]

67. Probably a difficult question.

I am getting more and more liberal as I get older. Which is odd considering I was very conservative in my youth.

[greatauntoftriplets]

69. I also am moving left as I get older.

And it feels damn good. Not that I EVER was conservative.

[hippiegranny]

68. solidarity... we already know you're a nadarite

why oh why do you continue to disrupt this board?

[noiretextatique]

74. "...but "remarkably few" in the end will vote for Nader"

Borosage acknowledged that "a huge number" of the liberal activists attending the three-day meeting agree with independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader's call for withdrawing US troops from Iraq -- a position Kerry does not endorse -- but "remarkably few" in the end will vote for Nader, who Borosage said was "on a fool's errand" as he pursues the presidency again.

did you happen to notice this excerpt in the original post. it seems like this should be considered good news, not disruption :shrug:

[oasis]

70. 2005 headline: Liberal Activists Hot as Bush's War Snags Draftees.

And the whining continues.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Solidarity]

77. Calm Down

Calm down "nothingshocksmeanymore", take a valium and explain what your talking about if your post was directed to me.

It would be good for everyone if you displayed a little more civility here toward those who don't agree with you. I don't think most people appreciate your foul language. Such behavior frequently betrays a lack of conviction or ideas and doesn't contribute anything to honest debate and discussion on any issue.

So please show respect for everyone, not just me, who may not agree with you. Don't call them all freepers, Naderites, fascists, communists or whatever strikes your fancy at that particular time. Can you do that?

I didn't write the newspaper article. It contains more positive than negative quotes on Kerry's campaign.

You seem to be proposing that only positive comments and articles about John Kerry should be allowed on DU and that any poster or article that indicates even the slighest disagreement with John Kerry's policies should banned from DU.

I'm not so sure most DU's would agree with your proposal, especially before the Democratic Party has actually selected John Kerry as the Presidential candidate. But, go ahead and make your proposal to the owners of this website.

I should tell you this. My credentials in the labor movement as a militant trade union activist and organizer are well established. And people I have worked with in organized labor probably consider me and my record far more liberal and progressive than yours. I'm certainly more tolerant of people who disagree with me than you are.

[noiretextatique]

78. "...but "remarkably few" in the end will vote for Nader"

i got this quote directly from your excerpt of the article :shrug:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

82. Look...I saw that too..I saw the article before he posted it

I have also read damn near everyone of his posts on the board....a pattern is a pattern is a pattern.

You know full well I have MY issues with the party and their ineffectiveness.....it doesn't mean I wish to render them more ineffective with further division.

There's a time for holding someone's feet to the fire...and it begins once they are in a position to DO ANYTHING..not while they are in a fight for even maintaining a TWO versus ONE party system which we are more dangerously close to than ever.

[noiretextatique]

85. the article isn't divise...it's an endorsement of kerry, overall

as to the poster...i don't know enough about him/her to comment on his/her motivations.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

79. My credentials are ten times more solid than yours guarantee it

and I have no respect for people who work against me while pretending to be on my team...it's called total fucking mutiny....and no I don't kiss people and thank them for it.

You had a chance during the primaries to put someone on the ticket more to your liking...you didn't make that happen...you have time after the election to undermine Kerry all you want....right now there are two people who stand a snowball's chance in hell of being president when the election is over...it isn't binary thinking...IT'S FUCKING REALITY....if you REFUSE to get that then I have ZERO tolerance for you and have NO appreciation for you pretending to be my partner in anything...I'm really SICK OF TOLERATING INEFFECTIVE action.

I can count 100 ways you have caused hardship and harm to those you CLAIM to advocate for...I represent them everyday of my life and let me tell you...if you help them anymore they'll be out on the streets.

Thanks for nothing.

[noiretextatique]

84. i read the entrie article

overall...it seemed more of an endorsement of kerry than anything else.
some people do have reservations about kerry, but i think this quote from the article says it all:

"Anger and animosity toward the president was a theme of the gathering, and it is fueling a surge of fund-raising and advertising by left-leaning groups like MoveOn.org, and creating levels of cooperation among labor, feminist, environmental, and antiwar groups that is unprecedented, officials of the Campaign for America's Future said.

"George Bush organizes progressives for Kerry the way Bill Clinton organized the right for Bush," Borosage said."

[buddhamama]

86. but where are the damn cartwheels

there ain't no support without the cartwheels.

[noiretextatique]

89. hehe

no cartwheels here...i've voted against republicans my entire life.

[buddhamama]

91. guess it's up to me then

x x x x x x x

(that's me doing cartwheels, i'm so fast and agile i never come down or actually touch the ground before plunging into my next one) :hi:

[noiretextatique]

92. LOL

you're doing enough for the both of us...but i will gladly vote against bush and for kerry in november. i'll save my cartwheels for when bush is sent packing :hi:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

87. Again.....my issue is with a pattern

you have the ability to search....check it out....

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DaveSZ]

88. Call me an idiot then.

"Only an idiot would believe Kerry is right of center."

[buddhamama]

90. doh. that would result in another deleted message by the poster

how did you come to that result chart for Kerry?

[hannah]

98. Nader

Isn't Nader in his 80's ? He's washed up ! Why does anyone like this guy.. Nothing new. An old man

[buddhamama]

100. yeah, ok. and, how exactly does that relate to my post ?

n/t

[rucky]

93. This is great news!

It totally negates all the million-dollar attacks from the right that have attempted to define Kerry as a liberal.

...and as long as folks are voting for Kerry, it doesn't matter if you're holding your nose or not. your vote still counts the same

[indigo32]

94. One hopes they are voting for Kerry

I'm not so concerned that any of these people are going to vote for Bush, but will they make the effort to vote at all with negativism such as this being spread around.
It's called voter suppression IMO.

[noiretextatique]

97. anyone who is so swayed by negavitity

as to not vote is a fool and an enabler of bush, inc. still...florida-style voter suppression and black box voting are a concerns for the upcoming election.

[noiretextatique]

96. i think it's good news too

exactly...you don't have to love the kerry, or agree with him 100% to vote for him...and against bush, inc.

[DaveSZ]

99. buddhamama:

Check it out:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/


Kucinich and Sharpton are the only two left of center, Kerry represents the center, and Bush the far-right.


Still, Kerry is as far to the left as is probably electable here in the States.

[DaveSZ]

101. If we elected more progressives to the Congress

we'd be in better shape.

[Moderator]

102. Locking.......

I would like to remind everyone about our rules.
Please read.....


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http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html#civility
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