Need Help---Friend doubts truthfulness of Symbolman's Flash Video--HELP!!!

[Heddi]

Yesterday, I posted the link to Symbolman's flash "army of one" in online journal, and this is the response I got from a military friend of mine. She's quasi-liberal, and I really feel that the last 8 years in the military have just eaten away at her brain.

This is the response I got from her regarding his video (which I thought was really really good). I know her comment about Depleted Uranium is incorrect, but would like to get some facts to present her with regarding her other points.

Any and all links, quotes, sources, etc would be VERY helpful.

Thanks so much!!!

Here's what she wrote:

"Ok, I've seen this one before . . . It misrepresents alot of stuff.

Far be it for from me to actually defend the military, but much of it is inaccurate and only tells a portion of the story:

1) Water is the #1 thing that they supply us with over there

2) The cuts to housing were actually cuts to places that were getting shut down, DM is one of the places that is getting new housing, and I'm telling ya, that we could probably do without it. Most daycares on bases are paid for by private organizations, not by the military.

3) No one has been able to tell me how depleted uranium is harmful

4) Ok, the part about TRICARE - if you're in the Guard for a consecutive 30 days, you qualify for TRICARE. After that, you have 30 days til you lose it, aka your real job health insurance takes over. Seems like an ok deal to me. If you are hurt during a conflict, you get disability - you're not thrown on the streets. Homeless vets actually do have alot out there for them, they just choose not to use it.

5)I got my Hazardous Duty Pay and (Husband) is still getting the extra family separation pay

6)I got my tax credit check

7)If you're hurt during a conflict - you get disability. In many cases, you're offered free education if you can't complete your time in the military due to injuries. You know what you signed up for. Its your fault if you don't fight for your benefits.

Them's just my 2 cents worth and all, but it seems like they're doing
stuff more to rile people up than to present the whole story."

[Ohio Dem]

1. As for number three, there is some stuff here:

http://www.chugoku-np.co.jp/abom/uran/index_e.html

[Ohio Dem]

2. As for the economic issues, would your friend believe the Army Times?

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=0-ARMYPAPER-1954515.php

[Andy_Stephenson]

3. " No one has been able to tell me how depleted uranium is harmful "

:eyes: Is this person stupid?

[SoCalDem]

9. My young friend's baby was born with Goldenhars

The govt won't admit it, but it's been linked to DU and GulfWarSyndrome..

Maybe your doubting friend will think about these photos if she rolls the dice and has a baby after he returns:(


http://home.att.net/~jnozum/PhotoG.htm

http://home.att.net/~jnozum/Goldenh.htm


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=goldenhar%27s+DU&btnG=Google+Search
Iraq, Cancers and DU (Depleted Uranium).
... It was not until 1993 that DU had been used in the Gulf War began to emerge. ... Their
daughter was born with a rare lung condition, Goldenhar's Syndrome. ...
www.rimbaud.freeserve.co.uk/iraq.htm - 18k - Cached - Similar pages

[sandnsea]

4. Well your friend lives in happy fluffy land

She thinks all these things are true until they happen to her and she discovers the other side. I actually thought that was only a Republican problem, lack of imagination and empathy.

She got her check, therefore everybody got a check. The rule is you get disability, therefore everybody does. And if the rules aren't working then it's the person's own fault.

I think things may have to get a whole lot worse in this country before it gets any better.

[Heddi]

5. Ah! Thanks for the help, but I still need more links

I've already sent copies of LTE's that were in stars & stripes, as well as the 2 links (and MUCH cut-n-pasting of articles) that OhioDem linked to.....

I need more. I need to innundate her with info. Multiple sources. I'm googling right now, but I want the info that I KNOW Du'ers have...

Also, any military DU'ers that can shed some light on this would be really appreciated (re: benefits, stuff like that)

[bicentennial_baby]

6. Did you pm Symbolman?

He may be able to tell you where he got the info

[Heddi]

7. Duh! Great idea

I never thought of that!!!!

DU'ers are so smart :) I love you guys/gals/others :) :)

[sandnsea]

11. Military Child Care

Here's their web site Q&A page. http://www.mfrc-dodqol.org/MCY/mm_faq.htm This program is within the family housing budget of $10 billion and covers 1/2 the cost of military child care. Based on their figures it looks like it costs nearly a billion a year. If they're cutting a billion out of the $10 billion, a program that already took 10% of that is going to take a big hit.

http://www.mfrc-dodqol.org/MCY/mm_faq.htm#subsidy

What ya' got and what else do you need?

[Heddi]

8. self-induced kick! I need more links!!!

Please--anything will do. This gal is my best friend and really is a great person. I fear that her 8 years in the military have clouded her mind, as well as her inability to really speak her mind or form her own opinions of things because of her mil. status.

thanks so much! I love DU!!!

[Ohio Dem]

10. Kick for Heddi.

Also, kick for me because I often have this same conversation with people.

[Vadem]

12. Try this one: retired from military while in coma...

http://www.gulfwarvets.com/news13.htm :

One of the most surprising statements to come from The Power Hour interview conducted on “The Genesis Network” was that while the son, Josh Neusche, was a healthy young soldier on June 26, 2003, when he reported that he was going to serve on the secret hauling mission, by July 1, 2003, he was in a coma, and that day was suddenly classified by the military, as medically retired from the Army without Josh or his family’s consent. Josh did not die until July 12, 2003. Among other problems that this new classification created was that the DOD was no longer obligated to assist the family in getting to Germany to be with their son as he lay in a coma. Because the DOD would not provide even so much as plane or taxi fare for the Neusche family, all 650 members of the 203 Engineer Battalion each contributed $10.00 to make the family’s final visit possible.

[bpilgrim]

13. slightly off topic... 'Ralph Omholt: Is It Fresh Blood, or a Putsch?'

another story on how these neo-cons, in paticular rummy, are RADICALLY changing the military to suit their needs.

...

August 8, 2003



In the middle of the ongoing Iraqi guerilla war, with more military actions awaiting, the new U.S. Army uniformed leadership has forced at least six senior generals into early retirement, with another half-dozen earmarked for the same treatment in the near.

What is unusual about this development is that no Army or DoD official has cited the cause for the widespread ousters, and there has been no evidence of misconduct or performance failures indicated as a cause for the retirements. An Army spokesman on Aug. 4 declined to comment on the issue on grounds that none of the six alleged retirements had been announced formally.

If there are valid issues behind the decision of incoming Army Chief of Staff Gen. Peter Schoomaker to mandate these retirements, it is unnerving that the personnel decisions should join the increasing ranks of "national security" secrets.

It will also be worth observing whether or not these generals join the "privatized" ranks, in the format of D.C. lobbyists or "consultants" - representing the interests of big business.

more...
http://www.military.com/NewContent?file=Defensewatch_080803

peace

[Vadem]

14. Here are several articles on "pneumonia" mystery illness:

http://www.thepowerhour.com/mystery.htm

[Melinda]

15. DU:

http://www.ngwrc.org/Dulink/du_link.htm

http://www.ccnr.org/bertell_book.html

http://www.greenleft.org.au/current/546p17.htm

[Heddi]

16. Thanks everyone! Y'all have been a great help

I'm going to keep cutting and pasting---anything else y'all can add is great. I'm not trying to be a pain in her (or DU's) ass by constantly sending her all this stuff, but she's been told, and is possibly beleiving, some misleading stuff, and I at least want to give her the OTHER side of the story (meaning, non-DOD side of the story) regarding these things, you know, just so she can make a more informed decision :)

I say it all the time, but DU rocks ass! There are so many smart people here---I should have had all of you get together to complete my microbiology final exam :)

[Heddi]

17. I just got a response on two of the points

One being the LTE's written to Stars and Stripes, and another with regards to about 20 pages of info regarding Depleated Uranium, effects, cancer, etc:


This one was in response to DU:

Ok, what I'll ask you to consider on this one is:

-Better diagnosis
-Lack of cancer fighting medicine due to the war and sanctions
-The fact that the Southern Iraqis tried to rise up against Saddam and because of that, had severe reprisals
-People in Northern Iraq have birth defects as well because of the use of chemical weapons against them by their own people
-There are people with Gulf War Syndrome that were no where near the
front lines
- they're assuming that it had something to do with a persons bodies reaction to the PB tabs they had to take at the enzyme level.

People do it with statistics all the time - they twist things to make them say what they want them to say and to inflame people and piss them off so that they'll do X. Just consider that their might be other things at work.

I'm not saying that I think DU is peachy - but I've seen many cases of where stuff has been pulled because of its affects: they changed the type of cleaning solution used on aircraft because of how caustic it was - alot of people come into contact with that stuff. If there is spilled fuel off the runway, the earth has to be dug up and cleaned - (husband) has had to do his fair share of digging, sometimes down to eight feet.

They aren't all evil bad people.

--------

This is in regards to the letters in Stars & Stripes about lack of water, etc:

Since I was personally stationed where these guys were, I know what he's spewing is a crock. The military knows that they need water. They can't shower, sure, but they get water.

Its disgruntled people - look at their ranks - a 2nd Lt and a PFC - they bitch. Its their job.

----
Argh! I love this girl dearly. She's like a sister to me....but I never ever thought I'd hear such right-wing garbage coming from her mouth. She does call herself a liberal, but I'm beginning to wonder if her idea of 'liberal' is correct

[zekeson]

25. I don't have links

just anecdotal evidence from my nephew who was over there early and came back in June. My family sent him food, toilet paper and other daily use items because the supply chain had not caught up with them as of April 03. They got two 1/2 liters of bottled water a day - use that for washing, drinking, etc. No sunscreen - it does get a little hot there, ya know? By May he stopped receiving mail. My daughter and her entire class wrote him letters in March and added a bunch of treats. He never received the items - that story was repeated numerous times by his mother's classrooms (she is a teacher), and by children of his other aunts and uncles. He just flat out never received about half his mail.

Contractors are handling the logistics this trip and are really mucking it up. Privatize, Privatize, Privatize, that’s the *, Rummy mantra - its all just mediocre service delivery and money in the pocket of * friends and campaign contribs.

[bpilgrim]

19. how did she react to bush's 'Bringum on!' comment?

http://new.GlobalFreePress.com/flash

:hi:

peace

[Heddi]

20. oh I'm sure she doesn't care

She responded to me that the DU info I gave her was nothing but "Skewed Facts" (to which I replied that you cannot "skew" a 100% increase in birth defects in areas of Iraq that we shelled with DU munitions)

And she is *SO POSITIVE* that those grunts are getting adequate water and they're just low ranking bitchers and moaners----even though I posted quite a few articles stating that soldiers are only getting 3 liters of water a day, when the MINIMUM reccomended H20 consumption for those areas is MINIMUM 4-6 quarts a day.....

[Yentatelaventa]

18. Was Symbolman in the military?

I'd lean to the first hand account of life in the military before a civilian account of it.

[bicentennial_baby]

21. Yes he was

He is a Veteran

[Heddi]

22. well I want his sources

not his stories.

IN his flash video, he cited things like pay cuts, Depleated Uranium, stuff like that---I wanted the sources that he cited. His military record would be irrelevant (with regards to sources)

[mcar]

23. Aren't the sources on the video?

Replay it and check the bottom of the screen. I believe he sources all of his facts.

[Heddi]

24. I know---but my computer has been acting funky

and it just locks up whenever I try to play the flash video (which I was able to see twice, but didn't write down the ref's because I didn't think she'd be so stubborn about it)

[qanda]

26. Heddi, it was mentioned more than once

in yesterday's press conference with the Military Families Speak Out that water was being rationed to the soldiers. I think the video is available over at CSPAN.org. Also, you may want to visit their websites at www.mfso.org or www.bringthemhomenow.org for more information about what is driving the families of the soldiers to be so upset.

[Heddi]

27. Thank you---the comment of hers that upset me the most

was that the LTE's printed in Stars & Stripes and Army Times were from "grunts" and new enlistees--"It's their job to bitch" is what she said....so I asked her at what level do they have the right to complain--NCO? CO? President???

She was in Quatar right before the war and got sent home. She wasn't in Iraq, never went to Iraq, and probably won't go to Iraq (at least I hope she doesn't), and she says that where she was, H2O was a priority...well, she wasn't on the front lines. She wasn't marching through the desert. She's not in the Army.

I really feel that at this point, it's a lost cause. I've been posting the items in my online journal, which is our main way of communicating with each other, but I just feel really sad because if she's not saying that the information about Depleted uranium is 'Skewed', she's saying that reports from Iraq can't be trusted b/c they come from low-level grunts.

I don't want to say that she's been brainwashed, but I think that she's towing the 'official' line much too closely.

I also know that due to the nature of her job, she's not able to be very....vocal about opposition to the war, the president, etc---but in the past, she's been able to carefully disguise her feelings when they disagree with the Official Policy and let it be known that she disagrees with it. I don't think this is the case here. I really believe that SHE believes that DU isn't harmful (despite the NUMEROUS references I gave her that it was), she doesn't believe the Military would do anything to harm anyone (I asked her if Vieques has been decontaminated from 50+years of shelling, or if the Bikini Islands have been decontaminated from years of nuclear testing....), and she believes that the people that are bitching are ONLY doing so to get 'sympathy' and not because the conditions are unnaturally rough.

It makes me really sad, because in her heart she is a liberal, but I feel that her military career and the pro-war people she hangs out with have tainted her views on things