It's interesting seeing whom the Republicans need to discredit:

[AP]

(1) Soros. Why? Because he's a wealthy, white male capitalist.

(2) Wesley Clark. Why? Because he's a white male who was in the army. (And he's becoming a wealthy capitalist too.)

(3) Michael Moore. Why? Because he's a white male with working class origins. (And he's also a wealthy capitalist too, although it's from selling the product of his labors.)

They cannot contenance any criticism from any sector of the public which represents one they think should be their base.

Economic elites? If too many economic elites start talking shit about the pResident, it might get the rest of them thinking, "what the fuck?"

The kind of working class guy you'd expect to be listening to Rush? Military people? Don't let their criticisms of Bush pass without trying to destroy the very foundation of what makes their criticism pointed.

Now, if a woman, or a black person crticizes the government, who cares? Of course, if you're a politician, they'll take you down next election. But they won't waste an ounce of capital having the media go after you relentlessly. It's not like the people who vote for Bush care about what a black person or a woman thinks about him anyway.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Funny, there's some pretend progressives on this board

discrediting the same people..amazing the crap you can get away with if you just pretend you are more liberal than everyone else.

[leftofthedial]

2. I'm pretending I'm better looking than everyone else

does that count?

[murielm99]

4. I pretend I am smarter.

Does that count?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. Shit and I thought you WERE smarter!

Damn that's twice today!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. Shit and I thought you were!

I'm such a sucker

[leftofthedial]

8. you're just pretending to be a sucker

can't fool me!

[AP]

3. Why just attack from the right? Sow seeds of doubt within the left too.

And just play dumb, like you don't get what you're doing.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. Oh I agree

John Kerry is a Skull and Bones PNAC'er and we really need to teach the Democrats a lesson so lets divide the left just like Germany in the 30's...it worked then didn't it?

[TN al]

7. I wish I had thought of a way to say what you just did...

...It would have prevented me from getting my posts deleted. I guess calling somebody a freaking freeper rushbot isn't subtle enough to avoid detection.

[dsc]

10. If Michael Moore hadn't changed his mind of third party voting

you would be leading the lynch mob.

On edit You will look long and hard to find posts of mine criticising any of those people in Soros' case ever, and in the other two for quite some time.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

12. You are correct. I won't take this as a personal attack even though it was

intended to be...if Moore had been out campaigning for Nader, he would be the opposition in my eyes.

BTW..I don't look long and hard for any of your posts.

[dsc]

13. No it was intended to point out

that you have no problem discrediting people on the left you don't like or agree with. I am presuming that you wouldn't consider yourself among those fake progressives. Unlike you, I don't think criticising one aspect of someone is the same as discrediting. I think both Soros and Moore have had less than fine moments in their lives and that discussing those doesn't make one a fake progressive. I also think one can be of the opinion that the Serbian campain was unwarrented without being a fake progressive. Incidently I think the Serbian campaign was warrented but many progressives didn't.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. Yes and you have no problem discrediting people either

I read enough of your posts claiming Kerry was anti-gay to shore up the proof of that...

again you have a double standard..you don't want to be taken to task for what you post but reserve the right to take me to task..you wish to opine about a woman's right to choose but God help the straight person who gets in the way of a gay man's rights...you expect complete consistency and compromise from me but have no problem being inconsistent and uncompromising yourself...


and therein lies the crux of the vast majority of our disagreements.

And YES...*revelation* there are people on this board who sew discontent in the name of being progressive who could care less...there are also progressives on this board that would rather shoot themselves and me in the foot than compromise.


I'm going out now.....enjoy getting the last word in.

[dsc]

16. put up or apologize

You claim to have read "enough of my posts that claimed that Kerry was anti gay" I want one, just one, where I use the words "Kerry is anti gay". Either site that post or apologize for lying about what I have written. I am sick of people like you putting words in my mouth. You have made the claim. You have a search function. Either produce that post or admit you made it up.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. There you go with that double standard again

say some pithy bullshit thing about me but the sky is falling when it comes back at you.

Here, I'll put up, you've earned it:

[dsc]

19. So I take it enough

translates to zero. Evidently part of your legal training is making charges without any evidence and then insulting people when they dare ask for it. I pity your clients and think you should sue your professors.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. Do NOT insult me professionally...during the primaries you had

at several threads portraying Kerry as an enemy to the gay community and even blaming the Mass state legislatures actions on him...yes I paraphrased, but you MORE than twisted his words and positions....again...you feel no compunction towards tossing out a cheap shot but you'll cry like hell when your own medicine comes right back at you.

[dsc]

22. no you lied

I never, as in not even once, called Kerry anything like an enemy of the gay community. You are out and out lying, and the fact you won't site anything proves it. Yes, I did blame, and stand behind casting that blame, the fact that a measure which didn't pass before he endorsed it, did after he endorsed it. Stop lying about me and I'll stop saying stuff about you, it is that simple. I will say I went to far to impugn your career but you did that to me first, and if you try denying that I will find it. You know you did it. But I shouldn't have stooped to your level, and for that I am sorry.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. Yes you did blame him for something he didn't control

and now you want to feign being innocent in the matter and pretend that since I paraphrased poorly there's no merit to the claim.

And no..I never said shit about your career...I maintained you have a double standard for behavior and I stand by that assertion.

Goodnight.

[dsc]

26. Just like we blame

Bush when his tax cuts passed (he had no vote, remember). If Bush is to be taken to task for advocating an amendment he can't for I can blame Kerry for doing the very same thing.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. Circular logic..the amendment wasn't Kerry's program

and the house and senate in the state were not under his control

[dsc]

18. BTW I have no problem with being taken to task for what I say

I do have a problem with posters lying about what I say and refusing to back up their false quotes of me. For example, I have problems with you when you lie and claim I said Kerry was anti gay. I have said, and accurately I might ad, that he supported an amendment that would ban gay marriage in Massachusetts. Again if you can find one, of the "enough" threads, then I will apologize but unless and until you site one I won't be apologizing at all. So either back it up or apologize.

I make no apologies for saying women can't murder their kids just becuse they haven't been born yet. When you show me the people who are dead due to gays having rights I will switch on that issue.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. No I'm not humoring you..read my other response

[dsc]

23. the fact you won't offer proof and can only call names speaks volumes

You are outright lying and you know it.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. where have I called you a name? Is it OK for you to lie?

more of that double speak?

[sangha]

28. I can sort of vouch for nsma

Though I dont remember any exact phrases like "anti-gay", I do remember dsc posting about how Kerry was willing to sacrifice the rights of gays in order to be elected. This was in reaction to Kerry's saying he doesn't support gay marriage.

[dsc]

30. Then site it

that isn't too much to ask. When the search is back up then you site it.

[dsc]

29. Oh yes you did

You posted once that I must be a horrible teacher due to my behavior on this board. You did so after Kerry wrapped up the nomination. If it didn't get deleted I will site it. And then I will demand an apology.

On edit Search is down which I should have figured given Reagan's death. I will have to find it sometime tomorrow.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

11. Yes, I was thinking about just this today, because it does seem that

the RW talking points fax instructed their flying media monkeys to all bash George Soros in the last day or so, Rushbaugh, Hannity etc. I was thinking, why?

I mean, sure this dude is giving a lot of money to the anti shrubco cause, which they hate, but most people have still probably never heard of Soros, so what kind of "traction" will this denunciation have?

[AP]

15. He makes the Richie Riches nervous. Trump, Soros & Buffet are gods to the

investor class.

It's kind of like Perot.

If some rich CEO says something critical about Republicans, there are a lot of rich, white men in the suburbs who start to ask hard questions.