Dan Rather just said that *bush is leading Kerry among Veterens

[Ironpost]

I didn't catch the poll or numbers but I think Dan is full of sh*t.

[Borknagar]

1. hmmmm

Probably likely in my opinion. Why would that be unbelievable?

[LittleApple81]

2. This relates to this CBS poll....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x602850

Randi Rhodes analyzed the numbers (just as the author of the post did) and she said she could not understand, after answering most of the questions as rational human beings, the veterans had a fifty something % intention to vote for Bush. It is weird, isn't it?

[lancdem]

6. It's from a larger poll that had Kerry leading Bush 49-41

and since those vets were likely almost all men (the gender gap is back), it's no shock that subgroup prefers Bush.

[DaveSZ]

7. I believe the numbers were:

54% *

40% Kerry


Most vets are more authoritarian in nature, so I think they'd gravitate to Bush more.

I wish we had another guy like FDR to pull them back to our side.

[MontecitoDem]

3. No he's right

there was a poll on Crossfire today showing Veterans 54% for Bush, 40% for Kerry. This is the largest number of veterans for a dem candidate in a LONG time. Sorry, don't have the details.

[vi5]

4. There was an article on this...it's true......BUT....

The poll in question was something like 170 people or a very small sampling. So the margin of error was + or - 8%.

[KittyWampus]

24. Exactly, The Veteran Subset Was About 107 People

so their numbers are based on appx. 100 people... and the margin of error is ridiculous.

What the fuck Dan Rather was doing reciting this garbage is beyond me.

[ConsAreLiars]

40. For the sake of accuracy

The vets portion was 170. That margin of error is +/- 7.5%. The main news is that most vets aren't real happy with the way things are going. Kerry-Bush numbers are the least important detail, since professing loyalty to the hierarchy is strongly reinforced in training.

[galadrium]

5. I don't believe it either

Why would veterans support a chicken-hawk deserter, when there is a decorated war veteran running?

[Borknagar]

8. Sometimes People . . .

. . . don't see the way things are. I cannot think of a single veteran (besides my dad) that does not like Bush or think he is an honorable man. Of course, I live in Bryan-College Station, TX.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

10. Maybe you ought to contact Veterans for Peace...

<http://www.veteransforpeace.org/>.

I personally know quite a few veterans who think the NeoCons have strayed off the reservation, and they're becoming pretty angry about it. One of those is my Dad, a WWII vet, who believes that what he fought against during WWII is now occupying the the centers of American government.

[Vickers]

13. Allow me to introduce myself: I'm Vickers, a veteran

and Bush is an idiot.

There...feel better?

:P

[Borknagar]

15. Nice!

Nice to meet you Vickers! :)

[Wwagsthedog]

20. Hello Neighbor

Add me to the list of vets against the bushbaby. Montgomery County, TX here. There aren't many of us around these parts. Welcome aboard.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

36. Veteran here too (noncombat). Collin County, TX. The very seat of

Skeletor's power! But I'm a transplant from the coastal U.S. so I'm a bit different from most around here.

Oh, and yes. I'm opposed to the shrubco presidency, Iraq invasion/occupation, all of it.

[RapidCreek]

46. Wow that's strange....I cannot think of a single veteran

including myself that thinks Bush is anything more than a draft dodging AWOL cowardly little turd.

I guess living in CS Texas...the fascist capital of the US, might explain some things.

RC

[DaveSZ]

9. General Clark for VP

He and Kerry together would really pull much of *'s veteran voting bloc from him.

[DaveSZ]

11. My grandfather too

He fought in WW2 and also hates Bush.

You should have seen his face when Bush tried to usurp the joy from the WWII memorial dedication.

[seabeyond]

12. further republicans SHouLD lead with vets

i think the bigger question, is how small the gap between rep and dem it is with vets

[Ironpost]

14. I wonder what the proportion is between the repukes and Democrats

concerning vets

[NJCher]

16. post 6 explains it for me

It would seem that a clear, hardhitting ad that addresses bush's cuts to vet's benefits would help here.


Cher

[MikeG]

17. There is a natural advantage for Republicans with veterans

Kerry is eating into it.

[troublemaker]

18. If Bush doesn't win veterans he won't win a state.

Not even Texas. When I saw the CBS poll I was surprised it was as close as 14 points (or whatever it was) and shocked that Bush/Cheney was tied with Kerry/McCain.

That's like saying Bush has a 'comfortable' lead among fundamentalist Christians. If it isn't a *crushing* lead he's in real trouble.

[Twillig]

19. I have the gut feeling that

some veterans get a little pumped up in their self-esteem when there is a war on and others (the anonymous) are fighting and dying and getting maimed and having an all around miserable time. Bush has given them that, in spades.

Back before Radio show guy Phil Hendrie did a Dennis Miller and became a pro-war jackball I used to like a character (Loyd Bonifide)he did who would base everything he said and did on being a 'veteran' of the Korean war (he was on a minesweeper, and never saw a shot fired). . It was quite funny and hit the nail on the head I think. But I digress and Phil sucks now.

And in general, I'd agree with what Vonnegut wrote once, 'People(or was it americans?) like really expensive shows where people get killed. And they get them.'


I am a pro-Kucinich vet.
I'll vote Kerry, of course.

[Sinistrous]

21. A large number of veterans are:

1. Southern
2. White
3. Males

All demographics with a tilt toward the twerp. The suprising thing is the closeness of the poll numbers.

[rumguy]

22. my father is a Vietnam vet....

and he has told me he is voting for Kerry.

[DemoTex]

23. I am a Vietnam vet and the whole damn world knows my vote!

ABB! Specifically, Kerry. Many of my right-wing Vietnam-Vet friends will sit the election out rather than vote for Bu$h. Fair enough.

[charliebrown]

25. My father also is a vet.

He said that Kerry seemed so much more worldly and European in his looks and attitude.

He said we need to have that kind of statesman as President and then the world will love us again.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[charliebrown]

28. Whats your problem Rumguy? n/t

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[charliebrown]

29. Whats your problem Rumguy? n/t repeated

[Auntie Bush]

38. My husband is a Korean vet and he HATES bush as much as I do.

[rumguy]

45. I think things are changing

Kerry has a chance to completey realign things here.

[charliebrown]

30. It shouldnt be a suprise that veterans vote right wing.

Repukes are traditionally stronger on military and thats a given. If it were Homosexuals, Union members, Blacks, Hispanics, ect. That would be a time to worry.

I think its expected for shrub to lead with vets.

[rumguy]

31. This is the way I like to look at it

That is changing. Big time. Bush has cut vetran's benefits and led many members of the military to their deaths in a questionable war.

Plus, people, vets included, are becoming aware that the right-wing are a bunch of chickenshit chickenhawk COWARDS.

The right wing is comprised of PHYSICAL COWARDS.

People are starting wake up to that fact.

[charliebrown]

32. But why did you threaten me?

I said nothing bad and I let it go till you wanted to be an ass-fuck.

[rumguy]

33. Listen - your post was subtle mockery...

that's the way I read it.

I went a little overboard, sorry.

But nothing disgusts me more than right-wing mockery talking points. They're disingenous.

Saying Kerry is "European looking" and saying that then the world "will love us again" sounds suspect to me.

I have no problem engaging in honest debate. But this name-calling mockery that the right wing engages in quite frankly enrages me.

Here we have a man like Kerry, who risked his life in Vietnam, actually saved the life of a fellow soldier, and chickenhawks mock him as "European looking" - that makes my blood boil.

Also I didn't threaten you, I challenged you to a hypothetical fight. It would have only happened if you were willing.

Of course, I realize the stupidity of talking about fighting on the internet.

And if I misread your intent with your post about Kerry, I am sorry.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rumguy]

37. LOL - I don't know where you get that CHARLIE BROWN

I didn't even mention your father.

And Kerry is not "Eurpoean looking" - I don't even know what that means. That is a pure, unadulterated right-wing talking point.

Any white person has Eurpean blood in him, Bush included. He is just as "European looking" as Kerry.

[charliebrown]

41. I told you my fathers thoughts and you went off the deep end.

That is degrading his service and I wont sit and fight with you all night.

Ok, I wont talk about his looks. I will call him the classic American as apposed to the Chimp...LOL

They are both funny looking. Sorry if you cant see it. I didn't come to fight I came to make a point.

If you think I am a right winger then alert on me. You can get me banned I am sure since you have been around forever. Its a shame that you are so unable to see funny in both(well all the candidates).

I wont be all doom and gloom as it seems many here are, hence, I dint post often. I posted to this cause I have a father who has expressed his thoughts. Sorry if that made you more mad.

I was gonna say I wont post on your threads or respond to your threads but, fuck it. If I wanna I will, I did nothing wrong.

Sleep well and sorry if you get offended by nothing. We both want the same results so I guess thats a good thing. :)

[rumguy]

43. I didn't say anything about his "service"

I'm sorry I challenged you to a fight. That was stupid.

But I must say I've never heard a Kerry supporter say that they support him because he's "European looking" and that then the "world will love us again."

If your father does support Kerry, and if he did in fact state this as his rationale for supporting Kerry, well then this is an official first: right-wing memes as rationales for support of Kerry. I don't know if that is crazy or brilliant.

[RapidCreek]

47. Repukes are traditionally stronger on military?

What the hell does that mean? In what way? Before I tell you your remark is quite possibly one of the stupidest things I ever read, I'll give you the opportunity to explain it.

RC

[West Coast Democrat]

34. Of course Bush is leading, but Kerry is taking a huge chunk....

of the votes the GOP has taken for granted for years now. I'll bet Kerry is doing better among veterans than any Democratic candidate in years.

[JI7]

39. the military does tend to be conservative leaning

interesting that while the military is part of a welfare state, many in there are conservative leaning. this comes from the whole blind patriotism thing some people put into them. many of the guys who come out of the military and get an education begin to learn about what really goes on in politics and international economics and they turn into some of the most liberal people around. they see who really benefits from what they did and who gets hurt.

notice those military guys who have a problem with kerry are those who feel he is a "traitor" for criticizing the war and telling the truth about what happened. it doesn't matter to these people that these things were true. to them one has to have blind allegiance to everything the country does.

john mccain himself ignored and tried to avoid kerry as much as he could when he got to the senate because he was angry at kerry for his anti war activities. but they became friend right away during their first conversation together when they discussed their war experiences. but mccain is more reasonable than most republicans and i think kerry can try to get these type of conservative veteran votes.

there are also those who are just jealous of kerry because he is better than them in many ways. and these are people like that guy john oneill who reminds me of the life long loser who could never get over the other guy's success.

[javadu]

42. Not surprising ----- Vets are White Men

It should not be surprising that Bush is leading among vets, because he is leading among White men as a whole. Here is the interesting question: Is Bush's lead among White male vets larger, smaller, or the same as Bush's lead among White men in general? If you know the answer to that question, you know whether or not being a vet matters at all and, if it does matter, how it matters. Does anyone have the data in enough detail to be able to check this out?

[napi21]

44. I think he's right...unfortunately.

I think it has a lot to do with their training, or as I call it, indoctrination. I always tell my son, he was brainwashed. They are taught that you ALWAYS support the Commander in Chief! My son has been in the Navy for 17 years. When he was visiting for Xmas we got into a discussion about the Shrub. He admitted that he didn't always agree with him, he was THE PRESIDENT!

I also have a brother in law who spent 27 years in the Marines. He's retired now, but he and his wife are still very strong Shrub supporters! For some reason, they all really believe Pugs are better for the military people.