L-O-fucking-L! Only on DU...

[Zomby Woof]

Only the death of a fascist icon could start the worst and most divisive flame wars since the primaries.

You want to be an apologist for despotic right-wing big government, perpetual war, enrichment of the super-rich at the expense of the poor and middle class, and televised mind-slavery, you go right ahead. I myself will stick to advocating for the underdogs like liberals normally do. When you defend Reagan, you defend his bitter legacy. Death and illness do not absolve him of his crimes.

Reagan was the ultimate overdog. Or perhaps that should be, in honor of his Nazi buddies at Bitburg, Überdog.

The only disgust any of you should feel is why fellow so-called liberals express surprise and grief at those of us who refuse to mourn for the passing of an empty-suited tinhorn despot.

This is a great day in history. The embodiment of Ignorant Anti-Intellectual America has passed. The godfather of neocons, who made our current shithole situation possible, is dead.

Hell, even the dumb monkeys in the 'Wizard of Oz' had the good sense to celebrate when it dawned on them the ol' witch was gone.

[JohnyCanuck]

1. Hear, hear. n/t

n/t

[DS1]

2. A-M-E-fucking-N!

Nancy can take a hike, too.

[XanaDUer]

3. Reagan, like Eichman, was the apotheosis of the term

"the banality of evil."

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boobooday]

5. Well said

A 93-year-old, very pampered man dies, and the media will go on and on. Oh, and we have to mourn.

How many 20-year-olds died in Iraq today? How many are crawling through the sand, wishing to GOD they were home with their families?

I'm not shedding any tears for Ronnie Raygun. And I'm glad I have no TV, either, so I don't have to listen to a bunch of CRAP about how great he was.

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[bearfan454]

10. He was a repuke criminal

Just like the bushes.

[T Bone]

85. I heard five 20 yr old soldiers died in Iraq today

They couldn't get cushy military assignments making training films in Hollywood like Reagan did in WWII.

[okieinpain]

111. no tv huh, what's that like. I'm too much of a wus to try it.

[Dookus]

6. except

nobody who's calling for decorum and decency is defending Reagan's presidency.

But alas, the grave-pissers refuse to recognize that. They think that unless you proclaim your willingness to sodomize the corpse with a splintered baseball bat, you're somehow soft on Reagan.

That is not true.

Some people just manage to put aside partisan politics on occasion in honor of our common humanity.

I see clearly that some of you can't. Oh well.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

11. Nobody, huh?

I've seen more than one thread that is very Reagan apologist.

[Kipepeo]

68. where exactly?

I haven't seen any.

I HAVE seen people calling other people apologists for asking that we not stoop to the level of freepers in our response.

[terrya]

13. Amen. Perfect.

You said it all. Thanks,

Terry

[hippywife]

41. Thanks, Dookus!

When we have adopted the sentiment and tactics of our enemy, we have surely lost.

[Zomby Woof]

48. lol

"We" haven't lost. I adopt no one's tactics but my own. They are non-ideological. I would say my tactics are: Show no mercy on the merciless. And Reagan and the GOP are as merciless as they come.

Never did care much for that lame christian turn-the-other-cheek weak-ass crap.

[RapidCreek]

103. Huh?

who here advocates lying or cheating, commiting treason for profit, selling arms and ammunition to terrorists and trickling on the poor?

How is feeling happy or indifferent about the death of one who did, the same as feeling happy or indefferent about the death of one who stood against such things.

You live in a dream world.

RC

[Forkboy]

42. How's the air up on that high horse

getting a nosebleed yet?

[Dookus]

69. no not yet

how're things down in the gutter?

edit: It's a pretty sad fucking day when asking for a little decorum over the death of an old man is considered being "on a high horse".

[Forkboy]

76. Great,you should join us little people!

But alas, the grave-pissers refuse to recognize that. They think that unless you proclaim your willingness to sodomize the corpse with a splintered baseball bat, you're somehow soft on Reagan.

Nice decorum bub :eyes:

[RapidCreek]

96. He doesn't deserve decorum...

What the hell about the death of this evil prick warrants decorum?

RC

[RapidCreek]

98. Jesus Christ!

Partison Politics? Now your spouting Rethuglican talking points!

You think this shit is some sort of game? Everyone goes home at the end of the night to a happy home and a nice warm meal?. This fucker kicked mental patients out onto the goddam streets! People I had to arrest...who ended up going to prison...people who did nothing wrong aside from being mentally ill!

You're playing Tiddly Winks while the guys across the table are laughing their asses off playing Pistol Chicken with a nine and your skull! Prtison Politics my ass fella..

You think you got some sort of common humanity with Reagun, then your a different sort of humananity than I care to call myself part of.

RC

[rbnyc]

143. Hi Dookus.

I just want to say that "putting aside partisan politics on occasion in honor of our common humanity" is a fine thing to advocate and I won't knock you for it. But at the same time, I deeply appreciate Zomby's post. Reagan was responsible for SO MUCH of what we're fighting against today, and the horrible aspects of his legacy are being ignored by the media. To hear this white-wash over and over again from so many sources makes me want to broadcast a reminder of who this man really was. I don't think that's the same thing as being a "grave-pisser" willing to "to sodomize the corpse with a splintered baseball bat."

I really appreciate your voice here at DU and I don't want to attack you at all, but I think while your promoting decency language like that doesn't help.

Thanks.

:hi:

[Name removed]

149. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rbnyc]

159. Hi Skittles.

Good to see you.

I understand putting some people on ignore when you find that you just can't get along, but even tho Dookus and I don't agree on everything, I have to say he's always been very kind to me, and I don't expect to agree with all my friends about everything.

Anyway, I always love to see you, so I really just wanted to say hi.

:hi:

:loveya:

[Zomby Woof]

166. is that what the post said???

LOL. Maybe I should make it viewable for a laugh, because I have a deep appreciation for flames against me using such colorful metaphors. :-)

:hi: René!

[DarkPhenyx]

7. "Apologist"?

don't think anyone has been excusing Reagan his ways. Simply pointed out that prehaps we should be better than our opponents. Seems it's too much to ask for Liberals and Progressives to act like human beings though.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

8. a-fucking-men

Fuck Reagan. He should've died in jail.

[not systems]

17. "He should've died in jail."

Ain't that the truth.

The man stacked bodies like cord wood.

Most love him for it.

Whatever.

[diamond14]

93. reaguns also had more of his administration CONVICTED of crimes

than any other president to date...

he ran a BIG TIME criminal enterprise...and many of bush* appointees are criminals from the reagun criminal enterprise....

all of reagun criminals were presidentially forgiven by pappa bush*...

[wellstone_democrat]

124. Amen to that brother

n/t

[curse10]

9. **dances**

ding dong the witch is dead! which ol' witch?! The wicked witch! Ding dong the wicked witch is Deeeeaaaaaddd!

[NecessaryOnslaught]

33. The witch may be dead but...

the beast lives on.

Boo!

[catzies]

99. Now THAT is the scariest thing I've seen all day

And damn true too. :scared:

[Carolina]

140. Ding dong

DAMN!

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

12. You sir have my admiration!

Well said indeed. See ya Ronnie.

[salinen]

14. Gosh Zomby

You are much more than a pretty face.

[Delano]

15. But he was so affable!

just kidding. I won't miss him. I hate what he did to this country. I don't hate him personally, though. I don't think he was as bad as Dumbya (though he was every bit as stupid and his policies were as damaging) I doubt Reagan would have started this stupid Iraq war, for example. Hell, I bet we wouldn't have started the first Gulf war either. He would have left his old buddy Saddam alone, and rightly so. Kuwait, Schmuwait - why should we have defended those bozos?

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. There came a time when my grandfather didn't know me anymore

Zomby...and that's really all I've thought about today. :(

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

24. yeah, and my grandmother had azhiemers too.

I dont see why Reagan having alzhiemers excuses an honest assessment of the legacy of Reagans career.

[ScreamingMeemie]

26. Because I'm not thinking of the man, I'm thinking of the family. I'm

human, and I'm beginning to wonder about some of you. If your grandmother had had alzheimers and you had been there with her I think you would understand, but something about your statement rings false. Sorry if I am wrong. But it doesn't sound like the words of a caring grandson/daughter.

Laura

[Zomby Woof]

36. I am sorry for your loss

But I speak of Reagan in the only way I can honestly relate to him - as the former president (and governor of my home state when I was born) of the country I call my own.

Question my humanity all you want, but Reagan forfeited his humanity long ago, and I leave his family out of this, for they are not the ones who affected this nation - our nation - for the worst.

Reagan had a net negative effect on humanity, and though his family has every right to grieve, I have every right to rejoice. For my relationship with him was not familial, it was just as a mere citizen who endured his cesspool of a presidency. The world is big enough to tolerate both aspects. But I still marvel at the transference some have of their family members to that of someone you should thank whatever god you pray to was no part of your family.

Sure would be interesting to see if my fellow Chimp-bashers will be so forgiving and apologetic for him when he dies of cirrhosis in 2026.

[ScreamingMeemie]

47. I hope those that I have angered in the Catholic Church this year do not

dance and rejoice in front of my children when I die. That's all I hope for. Do I like Ronald Reagan? No. Am I sending flowers? No. I'm just not going to add to the hell his children are going through right now. :(

[Zomby Woof]

51. I have never met his children

This isn't about his death, it is about his hateful life, and how I feel about it.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

53. So, you are calling me a liar because you dont agree with me.

but something about your statement rings false. Sorry if I am wrong. But it doesn't sound like the words of a caring grandson/daughter.

Reagan was a political figure with a political legacy. That is independent of him having azheimers. Frankly I don't care what he died of.,,.its really irrelvant to his political legacy, which is why are so critical of him and are not eulogizing him.

[ScreamingMeemie]

56. Again, I said I was sorry. But those I have met who have gone

through this, are rarely so flip about it.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

61. My Grandmother wasn't the President of Iran/Contra, The debacles in

Central and South America, Huge fucking deficit spending, saber rattling, fear mongering, bull shit SDI programs, etc, etc, etc.

Neither was yours. I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful to you but I dont believe Zomby was speaking of the family's pain but this evil bastard's presidency.

[Zomby Woof]

25. THIS ISN'T ABOUT THE DISEASE

Fuck! I posted about the Alzeheimer's aspect earlier. This isn't about the fucking disease. Do a search and I am sure you will find my post about why Alzheimer's is no excuse to pardon his crimes. He could have died from cancer, pneumonia, or just plain old age, and the sum total of his life's work is the same.

He had 83 years of life before he even went public with it! He had a lot to answer for in that prelude.

Diseases respect no one's character. But that is beside the point.

The point is, it isn't about how he died that I speak of, it is HOW HE LIVED.

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. Sorry Zomby, for me,it is. Regardless of what the man did. I didn't

agree with his policies, but I do feel for his children, who are not responsible for his actions. So I choose to show a bit of civility, regardless of how you choose to think of me for it.

I will not ever lower myself to the standards of a freeper. Sorry.

[Kipepeo]

35. a lot of people

have lowered themselves that far and don't see the simmilarities.

[Zomby Woof]

40. so I have the standards of a freeper?

Bad fallacy - disgust at a despot and accepting his death makes me all the more compassionate, for the deserving who suffered at his hand. Reagan was not among the deserving.

But really, if you want to call me a freeper, just do so, without the sidestepping or implications. I have two up on those fuckers - I am honest and unhypocritical.

[ScreamingMeemie]

44. ...and I am compassionate. A flaw tonight I guess.

Sorry Zomby. It saddens me that you feel the need to speak that way. :(

and on edit: I am begging one of my favorite, and nicest DUers to not lower himself. You're better than that Zomby.

[Zomby Woof]

49. I am me

I cannot lower myself if I am where I am, and always have been. I am true to myself, and if that alienates people, so be it. I have despised Reagan since he came into prominence at the behest of Falwell and company some 25 years ago. Again, it is not his death I rejoice in, it is life I criticize. His LIFE. How he died is irrelevant. How he lived, that matters.

It is Newton's third law in play. Some folks call it karma, but I am a westerner, after all.

[Pithlet]

120. That's cool.

But you don't have to disparage those who look at it differnetly, either. I don't understand the attack on those who don't feel like dancing on his grave, and think that is a less than decent thing to do, whatever their feelings about the man. Those attacks have seemed much more vicious than those against the ones cheering. It's as if having a little sense of decency has become a horrible thing. I understand the cheering, because let's face it; it's Reagan we're talking about. It doesn't make someone a scumbag to do so. But, the "decency" camp does hage a point, whether or not you agree with it.

I hate to say it, but this thread almost comes across a bit defensive. Who cares what other people think of your reaction to the man's death? Why should you?

[charlie]

128. Actually, the threads

likening our less-than-tactful members to lumps of sewage blossomed first. You're just looking at the stridently reactive phase in a circular dynamic.

[Pithlet]

130. Well, they did it first?

Okay, nevermind. </sarcasm>

[charlie]

131. Just explaining what you asked for

"I don't understand the attack on those who don't feel like dancing on his grave..."

It's tit for tat, cuts both ways. No one's covered in glory here.

Thanks for the sarcasm, you're a real peach.

[Pithlet]

133. I didn't ask for anything.

And tit for tat is real mature. Actually, I don't think tit-for-tat is what is going on here; I just thought your response was rather amusing.

[charlie]

134. Okay, I amuse you

You're here to belittle. Glad I could help out.

[Pithlet]

135. I didn't mean to belittle you.

The "They did it first" think just reminds me of what kids say. I thought it was funny. Lighten up.

[Pithlet]

121. It isn't a flaw.

There's nothing wrong with the way you feel.

[Kipepeo]

62. I don't think you're a freeper.

I think you are getting mad at people who are saddened at how simmilar some of the reactions on DU today are to those of a freeper. I EXPECT them to post useless 'yay i'm glad he's dead i'm going to dance on his grave' posts when a Liberal leader dies. I expect liberals to have something more important to say about how he was a horrible President and how his policies have cause a lot of our current problems.

[grasswire]

81. here's how I see it, Mrs. Grumpy

Reagan's family had him twenty years longer than I had my mother. They had him thirty years longer than I had my dad. Which is worse? Being able to lovingly tend an elderly parent? Or losing parents as a young adult? My mother's pancreatic cancer took her in six weeks. My father's cardiac valve failure took him with no notice to us, in the wink of an eye. They were here, then gone before a season changed. So I don't see that families whose elders have decades-long illnesses suffer more than others. At least there is plenty of time to hold hands, whisper prayers, prepare for the loss and make the transitions necessary.

Each circumstance is what it is -- the card dealt by fate.

A family whose loved one caused enormous pain in the lives of others should expect the world to return some measure of criticism, even at the death. We won't expect them to pay for Ronald Reagan's sins. And no one should expect us to obliterate the record.

[ScreamingMeemie]

83. I'm not asking for a record obliteration. I disagree with much of the

man's politics in fact almost all of it. I'm just not going to join in the party. It's not me. :hi:

[crossroads]

167. I'm sorry the day was a reminder of him to you...

...but it is a reminder to me of what that man did to this country, and I can't/won't forget just how bad it was...
:shrug:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

18. Amen!

[bicentennial_baby]

19. Whoomp...There it is.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

20. ..this is probably a GOOD thing....that DU has this kind of diversity.

but, yeah, I do agree with you re reagan.

[Liberal Christian]

21. To be honest ... I'm just not sorry

At first, I thought Reagan was the most evil president I would ever see. Crap. Bush makes him look almost like a fucking statesman.

I hated Ronald Reagan's presidency. I hated the simplistic and dualistic lenses through which he viewed the world and through which he encouraged us to view it, too. I hated the way he and all his people got away with Iran-Contra. I hated his vilification of simple campesinos in Nicaragua who were trying to gain some basic human rights as "communists" and "enemies" and "terrorists." I hated the oiliness of his voice and the populism that whitewashed and ignored real problems in America.

It never occurred to me that it could get worse.

[DEMVET-USMC]

60. Ron and Geo.1st sold 4,000 tow missiles to Khomeini`s Iran,a self declared

enemy of the U.S..I thought was called treason. The Bushes have a long history of this. They helped create the Nazi party and supplied them with arms and war material well after our entry into the war against the Nazis. I thought that was called treason. For this story go to < http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm >. won`t cry for you reagangentina ......Oscar

[Rabrrrrrr]

105. Well said!

[kiahzero]

22. Some of us can recognize shades of grey.

Compassion for the family != defender of Reagan.

[Union Thug]

23. Now, if Margaret Thatcher would just follow....

Ronnie Raygun's lead.... Geez, is that evil old bat still skulking about? I don't even know...

Good riddance, Reagan.

[tigereye]

101. I think he was a horrible president

and when someone dies, it is easy to gloss over some of the evil that they have done. I don't wish the anguish of Alzhemimer's on anyone or their family, but it is ironic how in our culture we are perhaps too ready to forgive the dead the despicable things they did in life.

[Misinformed01]

27. Yep.

I have nothing to add to what you wrote-

You live with horse thieves, you die with horse thieves.

[PaDUer]

28. Right you are! n/t

[leftofthedial]

29. you rock, ZW!

couldn't have said it better myself.

In fact, I didn't.

[rumguy]

31. clown

:+

[Cleita]

32. He was a legitmately elected President, unlike the prick we have now.n/t

[RetroLounge]

34. OMFG! I agree with ZombyWoof?

How did that happen?

RL

[Zomby Woof]

43. hey, you like old trains too

Really, it's just that Dean guy we don't see eye-to-eye on. ;-)

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

46. old trains? So do I...

so there are railfans here....?

[Zomby Woof]

59. hell yes

Retro and I share a fondness for antique trains.

[RetroLounge]

72. Hell yeah!

Probably other things too, but lets not get all mushy...

:)

RL

[DancingBear]

37. Yes, we want to show a modicum of human decency

and of course we're "apologists."

Christ, what utter bullshit.

Let's try this one more time - the man was a political bastard. Got that? He did more to ruin this nation than any President in my lifetime. Got that? Bush 2 could not exist without Reagan 1. Got that?

And now he's dead. So, those of us who (for now - got that?) want to leave him be get labeled as "apologists."

Let me say this right here - right now. I will put my liberal record over the last 30 years up against anyones. I was on the forefront against Ronnie and the boys before some of you were even BORN. I've seen enough of his wreckage to last me a lifetime, and I was in the streets against him before half of you even knew who the fuck he was.

So don't sit here and lecture on the Evil Empire, and don't grandstand with this sanctimonious garbage about "real liberals." There are times to fight, and times to stop, albeit for an instant, if need be. There is a time, in death, to merely say "not now." A real liberal would know that.

After tonight I'm convinced many of you wouldn't know one if it bit you in the ass.

(rant over - too tired to respond - goodnight)

[Zomby Woof]

45. lol

I have loads and scads of decency - I just save it for those who were dicked over by St. Ronnie all those years.

Good night. :hi:

[XanaDUer]

54. God, think of all the people , in the US and abroad

especially South America, Reagan dicked over.

El Salvador alone.

And yet, he will still be remembered as this kindly old gramps.

[many a good man]

38. America will be forever in his debt

The original Teflon President, RR maintained higher popularity in retirement than any of his predecessors. The first professional actor to assume the role of President of the United States. My condolences to all the friends, family, and admirers in their time of grief; now lets begin an honest reassessment of his legacy...

[Forkboy]

70. lol...we were close to being forever IN debt thanks to him

[LoZoccolo]

39. Why don't we stack the Republicans dick-to-ass in a pyramid?

If you don't advocate this, you are an apologist for a fascist icon.

:eyes:

[XanaDUer]

50. I don't think anyone has advocated torturing Reagan

or Republicans. I know ZW has not, that I have seen.


:shrug:

[LoZoccolo]

55. Why not?

If we're going to be celebrating him dying, why stop there?

:eyes:

[XanaDUer]

63. Well, I have not seen as much "celebrating"

his death as much as a motherlode of anger aimed at him. I did see a few , "pissing on the graves posts", but not as many as posts about people upset about people saying stuff about pissing on his grave.

But you get into an interesting idea: do thoughts and words hurt as much as actually doing the actual thing itself?

I say, I would rather have someone talk about killing me than actually doing it.

I do not think saying honest things about the awfulness of Reagan's legacy is the same as torturing Iraqis who were picked up and put in prison and were wards of the American troops against their will.

[Zomby Woof]

57. I advocate nothing but...

Working hard to help our fellow travelers undo his wretched legacy.

But no, I never once called for anyone to come to harm. I expect such hysteria and handwringing from certain dispositions, however. ;-)

[XanaDUer]

65. I have yet to see a post from you advocating

the torture and death of Reagan.

[Forkboy]

71. now you're talkin!

:evilgrin:

[KG]

77. snorf!

wat up, bro! :hi:

[Forkboy]

79. Hey KG!!!!

Glad you came to join the fun.

Did you know if you're happy Reagan is dead you're no different from Fred Phelps?

Who knew? :)

[KG]

88. just found out about that myself!.

also learned i should not gloat over the deaths of, or speak ill of dead fascist pigs.

guess i need to rethink my positions on mussolini, hitler, lenin and pol pot!

[not systems]

91. Nail meet the hammer.

He was a criminal.

Loved by many.

That is about the size of it.

[Sideways]

137. Ah My Brothers In Truth Fork And KG

I've been torn all day.....should I be mourning or recognizing that a fascist jack booted thug finally thumped out...or should I comment on Nancy and her Mach 5 face lift. Tough choice I tell ya...so little time too many fucksticks to talk about...Love you both to death......Yeah yeah yeah I must be a mean ole bitch to talk so stridently about the dead...Whatever and amen.....Bonzo is now BELOW....hot enough for ya Ronnie?

[Forkboy]

150. Hi Mary

I changed my mind.Now I'm scared that the Freepers will say mean stuff about us so I'm going to be nice to evil fucks...er..men.

I'm so ashamed.




or not :evilgrin:

[DEMVET-USMC]

74. I think they do it at the white house for fun.I guess after a day of brown

nosing with the the different bosses it just comes as a fun way for the guys to get together before prayer dinner.

[Samantha]

52. I thought the country under Reagan was run by Howard Baker

his Secretary of State. My reaction to him was always simply that he was an actor before he became president and remained one during his presidency. Sort of the same system the Republicans have put in place again with George Bush* (except that Bush* lacks the stage experience) -- the face of the so-called leader of the free world is simply a facade, all of the power rests in the hands of those behind the scenes.

It was under Reagan's tenure that greed became good, and it is that very theme which has been resumed under Bush*. So the model trotted out under the eight years of Reagan is the mold of the Bush* occupancy. In that regard, Reagan forged the pattern under which a forgery such as Bush* could be passed off to the voting American public. That's the true Reagan legacy.

May he rest in peace while the rest of us suffer in the political hell on earth the Reagan legacy perpetuates.

[fortyfeetunder]

58. No, that is going to be the effing start of Saint Ronnie

Makes me wonder if Dubya gave Pope JP II that Freedom medal as a upfront bribe to beatify Ronnie as a saint.

If the Pope can't make him a saint, the Pugs will....

[SarahB]

64. I don't want to morn

I just don't care enough about the man to expend any energy otherwise questioning his place in the afterlife. He's gone. Adios. :shrug:
Let's just clean up the crappy neocon legacy he's left us.

[smirkymonkey]

100. My sentiments exactly.

I honestly don't feel an ounce of sadness and I can't conjure it up, especially for someone with a legacy such as his.

He was 93. He was ill. He died. Happens everyday to better people than he. There is nothing to mourn.

[Faygo Kid]

66. Nice. So our problems are over?

Ding dong, the witch is dead. Enjoy your celebration. Glad you're here to tell me how to celebrate the death of someone who has been dead from Alzheimer's for years. I opposed Reagan, but don't celebrate his passing. Guess that makes me a "so-called liberal." If I danced in the streets, perhaps I could join your no doubt ever shrinking circle of friends. Enjoy, and congratulations to you on your victory.

[Raskolnik]

67. I disagree.

Asking for basic human decency isn't "defending" Reagan. Its being better than those we oppose.

I WANT to be better than them. I WANT liberals to have the capacity to show a modicum of restraint when it is called for.

You say this is a "great day" in history? Tell me one thing that was made better by this pathetic, sick old man dying.

[Forkboy]

73. "I WANT to be better than them."

Then be so.What anyone says here doesn't change who you are.

[Raskolnik]

89. Us, not Them.

What I meant is that I want US to be better than them. Please see my thread about Wellstone that gives my thoughts a little more clearly.

[donhakman]

78. Its all a judgment call

To be a moderator here there are rules against violence but at the end of the day many judgements are of course largely arbitrary.

For example, I am a political cartoonist for DU and have only had cartoons deleted when the subject happened to be a Democrat.

I think a little self deprecating humor is healthy but some people do not see it that way.

I have been banned by 22 interntional websites for my cartoons being too leftist.

Yet here there were some who thought the opposite.
It may seem whacky and jeuvenile but people really are more fearful and suspicious than I have ever seen before.
That being said, the fear of a mole in this forum is grossly overated.

I don't want to be better than "them". I already know I am.
I also want to win back our liberty with any propogada genius available.

[Raskolnik]

90. Huh?

Well I'm glad YOU know it. The only way that we make our ideals succeed, however, is if we make OTHER people know it as well.

[Sportndog]

75. To those:

To those of us that are still alive, that lived in California during the 70's when that a-hole was governor, I can only celebrate with you that we have outlived someone that was so intolerent of other people's lifestyles including his own son. I am not going to be on the fence with this one. I hope this is going to be a beckoning call to all the cockroach energies that do not deserve to be in the same air space as Mother Theresa and Carl Sagan and are leading America down the path of war and retro negative governmental policies. We will not be following you. We say NO! You're time is over. Goodbye Georgie, Goodbye Raygun, TA, TA

[WilliamPitt]

80. Word

up.

[Mandate My Ass]

82. For those who died agonizing deaths well before the age of 93

because of their lack of means, I mourn tonight.

[Kanary]

97. Thank you, Monica.

I'm also thinking of all those who killed themselves because their "means" were taken away.

Kanary

[Hubert Flottz]

84. You ain't just a-Yaking Dixie dude!

Sympathy is something Reagan NEVER showed! He has gone to reap his just reward! Too bad he wasn't a nicer guy, but he sold his soul, we didn't!

[jono]

86. No apologies or respect

for the man or his administration. But I have sympathy for the family tonight, as they have lost a loved one, and I have known that pain all too well.

[Sugarbleus]

87. I am saving this vitriol for

GW. Ronny did the things you say but for different reasons than those of shrubya. Ron had style. He had a sense of humor and he was able to own up to his sins when caught--unlike the one we have seated now who claims he doesn't even know Chalabi now.

I didn't like Reagan for his policies, but his personality wasn't nearly as awful as heir bushler's. On a personal level I didn't like Nancy at all. On the other hand, and from a purely human point of view, the two of them were deeply in love. They were devoted to each other and showed it. That kinds gets me...'right here..' lol

So, while Ron wasn't any gift to "the people" he was able to behave statesman-like, speak well, and hold his own. I don't weep for his passing; he was OLD for heaven's sake! I don't HATE him like I do the one we are coping with now.

I'll save my vitriol for you know who when his number is up. In that day, my sentiments will be: AMF= Adios MoFo!

[Rex]

92. FAUXnews has gone into circle-jerk overdrive.

I expect them to start calling him Saint Ronny any moment now.

[Lou_C]

94. Who's celebrating? I hated his guts!

:puke:

[Rex]

102. Exactly Lou, I think some fellow DUrs have a hard time understanding

the difference. I hated his guts too!

[Lou_C]

106. I lost my business during his rein in office

I guess allot of people are too young to remember the Iran Contra hearings.

[RapidCreek]

95. you said everything I've been trying to say for the past 6 hours

in one stinkin post....thanks....seeing it all in words has relieved my tension headache!

Stupid monkeys, indeed....that was gonna be my next post...you saved me the trouble.

RC

[dave29]

104. Spitting on the Grave

If you can't celebrate someone's life, you shouldn't celebrate their death either.

You should shut the f*ck up and and say a prayer for those that lost a father, son, sister, mother, brother, son, uncle, grandfather, grandmother today. We're all humans, regardless of our ideology, and no one gave any of us a rulebook on how to live on this planet. There are terrible people out there doing terrible things, and you can hate them all you want, but rejoicing in someone's death is the reason we have half the problems we do on the planet. Until you figure that out we're going to keep repeating the same mistakes we've made as human beings ad nauseaum since we figured out the wheel.

Otherwise enjoy your fleeting moment of compassionless joy. I hope it made you feel better. Because it doesn't matter one sh!t in the grand scheme of things.

[Zomby Woof]

107. so telling me my shit doesn't mean shit

Is somehow meaningful to you? Do you feel better about yourself now that you have "put me in my place"? ;-)

That being said, I am not a praying man. Can't abide monotheism any more than I can Reagan and conservatives.

As most other detractors, you miss my point. This isn't about Reagan's death so much as it is about his life. I don't so much rejoice in the one as much as I regret the other.

Still a great day to be alive though. :loveya:

[dave29]

110. No, don't feel one bit better

but thanks for asking.

[BringEmOn]

108. The rich man and the beggar.

I know that Reagan's death has brought back a lot of painful memories for many of us. I remember some very hard times during the Reagan years, struggling to pay the bills and care for my family. I know that many here in this country suffered at the hands of this tyrant...children who didn't have food to eat, parents not knowing where the next paycheck would come from, elderly eating catfood and cutting their medication in half, to the sick who couldn't afford medical care. Many in Latin America and the Middle East lost their lives because of this man's policies.

He enjoyed the finer things in this world throughout his life, but I know that he is now receiving his just reward, as will the Dick Cheneys and George H.W. and George W. Bushes and other greedy rich men who turn their backs on the less fortunate, just as the rich man in this parable:

Luke Chapter 16

19. There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23. And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

[Raskolnik]

109. Come to your senses people!

When my hero Paul Wellstone died a few years ago, the progressive liberal movement lost someone who they viewed as a champion and an icon. Some conservatives took the opportunity of his passing to mock his ideals and score cheap political points at his expense. They were terrible people for doing so.

Some conservatives, however, simply stated that although they disagreed with many of his political decisions, Wellstone was a man of his principles and at the moment it was simply a time to mourn a human being's passing and give condolences to his family. In particular, Rush Limbaugh showed restraint and behaved appropriately (surprisingly enough).

My question to those here at DU is this: if we can't be at least as good as that piece of garbage Limbaugh, what good are we? I LIKE being able to categorize liberals as the more humane and generous political group. I don't want to give people reason to doubt that.

I am NOT asking people to forget Reagan's many ill deeds. History will remember him appropriately, I believe. However, there is a time and place for attacking a man and his politics. The day of his death is not that day. We do ourselves and our cause a disservice when we descend into this kind of childish, ghoulish gloating at a man's death.

[Susang]

116. Don't you mean come to "your" senses?

Perhaps if you posted on anything other than threads about Ronald Reagan's death, or didn't continue to mention conservative icons in your posts, more people might agree with you.

[Skip Intro]

112. We lose political points your way

We don't lose those truths of which you speak, or renounce them in favor of praise, simply by showing tact and restraint during this politically ripe season.

And we need all the political points we can get.

[rbnyc]

126. I'm not sure that's true.

Dems lose the most political points for seeming "wishy-washy", for not taking a stand, for being timid, for saying they stand for one thing but acting like they stand for something else, for being afraid to allienate people that we don't even agree with.

I'm not saying let's have party or let's burn his corpse in the street. But I think we SHOULD be talking about the negative aspects of his legacy and not just making nicey-nice because he's dead. I think we shouldn't be afraid to take sides.

[0rganism]

113. Be careful, lest he become more powerful in death than he was in life

As far as I could tell, the part of him that would have been most relevant to the job, his mind, died long before I started paying attention to politics. As someone who had a relative die a protracted death from Alzheimers, I felt sadness for his family having to suffer through years of his further decline. His physical passing will bring some small closure to years of suffering.

Unfortunately, his legend lives on, and credits him with deeds far beyond his achievement at the expense of his actual mediocrity and criminal negligence. Celebrating his demise only feeds the bonfire on which truth is sacrificed.

[BiggJawn]

114. Preach it, Zomby!

All the shit that happened in his name under his watch, and we're supposed to just say "Awwwwwww....Isn't that HORRIBLE? Poor widdle Wonny died....Awwwwwww!"

I don't think so.

Just this point:
I'm no longer in fear of being jacked-up for "threatening" an ex-president when I go off on one of my "let me tell you HOW rotten it REALLY was back in the 80's..." rants.

that in itself is plenty of reason to smile.

[DinahMoeHum]

115. I'm just glad he didn't go just before the conventions. . .

There will be no "win one more for the Gipper" if we have anything to do with it. The 'Pukes have exhausted their quota on miracles. They should prepare to wear asbestos suits for where they're going.

:evilgrin:

[Liberal Classic]

117. We now return you to our regularly scheduled

Two Minute Hate.

[soggy]

118. got hate?

look, i'm not seeing anyone demanding that you like the guy. you can hate him all you want for all i care. but when you have to post your thoughts in a PUBLIC FORUM to say things like "see ya in hell, ronnie!" before the body's even been put to rest, then you'd better be god damn ready to catch some criticism, because posting that shit screams to the world that you're a grade A jackass.

and another thing... check it out, i don't have that many posts. so if it'll help you sleep easier to think that someone new here who disagrees with damning the recently deceased to hell must be a freeper... then fuck it, i'll be a freeper. pull your head out.

[Liberal Classic]

119. No kidding

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[soggy]

122. not a reply to you

it was a reply to the original post. the use of the word "hate" was coincidental.

[rbnyc]

123. Thank You!

I've been rather afraid to post since yesterday. But the only think I've been able to think about since Reagan's death is those 52 hostages who were about to be released being held til after Reagan took office. They were about to be released before Reagan's group interfered. It would have been a landslide for Carter. Instead it was the first Republican coup. A coup, insanely increased military spending, tax cuts for the rich and a huge deficit. What a great precedent. What a fucking awesome legacy.

Fuck Reagan.

[buddhamama]

125. ........

"I myself will stick to advocating for the underdogs like liberals normally do. When you defend Reagan, you defend his bitter legacy."

Right on! :thumbsup:

love you ZW! :loveya:

[JackDragna]

127. Excellent post.

There's not enough piss for the grave of Ronald Reagan.

[Pathwalker]

129. So, who wants to buy my anti-Reagan buttons???

My son bought two of them for me at a garage sale. One says "Impeach Reagan", the other one says "Send Reagan a Message" and has the "One finger Salute" - if you know what I mean. I put them away after Nancy appeared on behalf of stem-cell research, and I don't want to dance on his grave either. Maybe I'll plant a tree in his honor...;-)


"Tress cause pollution." Ronald Reagan

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

132. Funny, I thought we were honoring him by adopting his rhetoric and the

hatefulness of his followers which is why I reject that path.

Some people mistake common decency for "apologia."

If there is any illness striking us all at our core, it is the inability to distinguish.

I can distinguish my lack of remorse for his passing from my own sense of decency as a human not to become that which I loathe...which was brought about as a result of his policies which devalued education.

I respectfully disagree with the meaning you have attached to my response.

[Selwynn]

139. I agree, and I'm ashamed and disgusted with the fucking joke of a place.

[Forkboy]

151. uh oh

[Sideways]

154. The Morality Police Are Afoot

For fucks sake most of us here on DU are in tune with behaving in a morally upright construct. That's why we are Democrats/Liberals/Progressives. We do not need a lecture or a self righteous posturing bloviate to dictate how we feel when a human being that has sunk to the bottom of the pond dies.

We are well aware of human frailty and sorrow of loss of life. The point isn't our ignorance of those things, it is our ability to strip away the props and just say...."This fucking person was an asshole." What is so fucking wrong with that?

I'll be waiting for some high horses to come down and answer.

[Selwynn]

156. nevermind.

I'm in too foul a mood to talk.

[Forkboy]

158. "self righteous posturing bloviate"

LMAO :evilgrin:

[DemExpat]

146. I agree.....RR's legacy is enhanced by his enemies' hatred

and magnified by expressions of glee at his passing.
I have no remorse whatsoever over his death, but know that a world devoid of decency and humanity is what men and women like Reagan create, and I want no part of it.

DemEx

[bhunt70]

163. Im with ya.

[Zomby Woof]

165. no, no...

The real point of my post (which I am stunned garnered this many replies) was to laugh at how ANYTHING can cause a divisive flame war on DU, and the legacy of Reagan being the most ironic of all.

I never attacked anyone for expressing mere sympathy at his suffering or whatnot. What I did get pissed at was how I kept attacking his RECORD and was told I was some kind of freeper beast without compassion. The people who defend his record get no pass from me. I will be merciless, evil, hateful, or whatever you want to call me if it sheds truth on that fucker. All my vitriol, 25 years fermenting at that shithole, was aimed at the dumbasses defending his presidency. None of these dumb assholes are any of my longtime DU friends or acquaintances.

I don't think decency is apologia - I have no argument with people expressing sympathy with his family or such. I won't do it myself, but I won't raise hell with anyone who does.

What I do protest are these idiotic posts defending his record, saying he shrunk government, ended Communism, was a wonderful president, etc. Those sparked my outrage. They are just so ignorant and stupid as all fuck. Gullible shitholes!

As for anyone saying I am "defensive", I thought my original post was rather mild - I am amused by the depths of division on this site. Color me a mean asshole, I won't shirk the label or be defensive about it.


That being said, he is rotting now, with no particular remorse or joy on my part... but when a tyrant dies, I cannot be sad. An affable despot is still a despot, and I will continue to be one of his most outspoken critics on this 'progressive' site.

[Bake]

136. Sorry, but I don't "feel for his children or family."

He was a monster. The fact that he was "likeable" in any way only makes it worse. His policies and his actions speak far more than his "well, there you go again" affability ever could. His children, his wife, his legacy -- they all benefit from his affability and his evil policies. The Pukes spit on Paul Wellstone's grave. I piss on St. Ronnie's! I'm not mourning. I'm still angry about what he DID in life, in office. Fuck him and Nancy too. I don't feel sorry for her any more than I would for Babs and her "beautiful mind" if Poppy Smirk dropped dead today. Does that make me "inhuman"? Tough noogies. The truth hurts.

Kerry can be classy; he HAS TO. It's politics. I don't have to. Good for JFK, he's not only classy but smart too. I don't have to be. Fuck Reagan.

Bake

[Carolina]

138. ultimate overdog ...

LOL.

"Hell, even the dumb monkeys in the 'Wizard of Oz' had the good sense to celebrate when it dawned on them the ol' witch was gone.'

Touche, ZombyWoof. I'm lovin' it ... your post that is :toast:

[opihimoimoi]

141. Woof woof

I join the wolf man

[Sideways]

142. For Those Wanting To Touch The Human Side Of This Story

PSST: Secret CIA Memo...dated January 1981.....

Ronnie is a REPTILE. EOM.

[monobrau]

144. You nailed it, my friend

We either fight the scum or get crushed by it.

[Generator]

145. It is funny, and I agree with you

Interesting watching all the I'm disgusted, how dare you, I'm leaving ect, around here.

Reagan's death is bringing up all the old horrible memories of all the things that were so outraging in his eight years. I'm just feel sick and want this week over. I couldn't stand the guy.

And if he was anyone else on the planet,(except maybe a Ghandi or a MLK) a death at the frigging age of 93 is not a tragedy, hell it's not even news. It's like the evil and banality of evil are being rubbed in our faces. Reagan to me was the epitome of the banality of evil. He didn't INTEND to kill anyone but his ideology and policies harmed countless people all over the world. But, he was a such a nice "grandfather" type, as my husband said, and that's what most Americans want;someone to hold their hand and lie to them that everything is FINE!

It's week like this one that makes me wish I was Canadian.

I'm not happy he's dead, but I'm relieved his energy is being removed from this planet.
IF that only means the nightmare and the wrong turn he has taken this great country on that started a month before I turned eighteen(the best years of my young youth-ah the Reagan/Bush years-silent scream)
that I love with all my heart is symbolically moving on.

[Skittles]

147. AMEN, ZOMBY

AMEN.

[wyldwolf]

148. 1/2 in agreement

I deplored Reagan's policies. I've expressed that many times on DU.

I just won't do so at this time.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

152. A- fucking-men!

[Shopaholic]

153. So if RR had passed away from something other than. . .

Alzheimer's would it be okay to point out the truth about what a deplorable president he truly was? My grandmother died of Alzheimer's and it wasn't pretty. But she died in a crappy nursing home because that's all we could afford and we had to sign her house over to the nursing home because those were the Medicare rules. Reagan died in a posh mansion in the middle of friggin Bel Air. He lived 10 damn years with the disease because he received the finest care possible--something denied my grandmother and millions like her. I'm sorry, he was a terrible president and I'm not going to take the high road and say something nice about him now that he's dead. And if that doesn't make me any better than a Repug, then so be it. Do you think if Bill Clinton dropped dead right now that the Cable News folks would be preaching him into heaven like they are Reagan? Do you think that the Freepers would be tripping over themselves to praise him? HELL NO. I'm so sick of our party trying to do the "right thing". The right thing is to remember the whole of a person--not the parts and I'm afraid that too many people, including too many on this very board, have forgotten the swath of destruction that Reagan and his administration wrought on our country. Those were hard years for too many Americans and the precedents set by Reagan gave rise to the Neo-Cons and the miserable, pathetic excuse of a president we have today. I'm going to put blame where it belongs-squarely on the dead head of Ronald W. Reagan. And if you think less of me for telling it like it is, you can kiss my :dem:

[Lorien]

155. Reagan was one of the most fortunate in death

He lived longer than most human beings ever will (and, because of his policies and those of his party, it's unlikely that most of humanity today will ever get to that age-including all of us). He is responsible for so much suffering, but he was spared any crisis of consciousness in his old age. My grandfather died of Alzheimer's just a few years ago, and though it was agonizing (emotionally) for him in it's early stages, he was at peace towards the end.Our family misses him, but also feels a sense of relief that he was released from a body that had betrayed him. He never experienced the agony that a cancer or AIDS patient suffers in their final days (the repug assault on the environment and healthcare has given us millions more of those deaths). I expect Reagan's family-though they may never say so aloud- honestly wishes he had been taken sooner. The person they knew was already gone, only the shell remained. Death comes to us all; Reagan died at peace, at a very advanced age, surrounded by his loved ones. I call that extraordinarly fortunate-there is absolutely no call for remorse here.

[noiretextatique]

157. not only on DU

etiquette trumps reality in american politics...ask cynthia mckinney or al gore :hi: there is a right way and a right time...indeed.

[RedSock]

160. i agree with zomby

great rant -- i never thought i'd see a worse, more hateful president than reagan --

though * is worse.

[jus_the_facts]

161. You can make the arguement that the INDECENCY so many have shown......

.....is yet another direct result of the decline of western civilization under Raygun as well...OOOOH THE HUMANITY! :evilgrin:

on edit...I was tryin' to make a point...oh uhm...JUST SAY NO! :smoke:

[mike1963]

162. I have lived with twelve Presidents. No recollection of the first, FDR,

but I recall my father, an unabashed bigot and fan of Hitler (he even sported a Hiterlian mustache and took every opportunity to rail against Jews and 'niggers' and seriously hated Roosevelt.) He called him 'puddinghead', I never really grasped what that was all about but hey this was my dad, he was supposed to know, huh? To my everlasting shame, I echoed much of his bigotry until about age 18 when he was killed in an auto crash - when I began to see how idiotic his (and my) views really were.

Anyhow, I don't really think Reagan was so much a truly evil person (as Chimpy is) as just a doofus (as Chimpy is as well)...for some reason the American electorate appears to sometimes like to have morons in charge.
:eyes:

[donhakman]

164. Its not over till...