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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:35 PM
Original message
Good things about Ronald Reagan
Given the large amount of negative threads that have popped up about Ronald Reagan, I thought I try to start a civilized thread that gave people here a chance to try to say something nice about the man. I fully expect this thread to either drop like a stone or be filled with sarcastic responses. Perhaps, however, DU will surprise me...

Here's what I liked about Reagan. He was actually friends with Tip O'Neil. The two of them met privately on a regular basis. Their respect was mutual. Tip once told Reagan that he had never met a man who "connected with the American people as well as him ". Of O'Neil, Reagan said: "Tip and I are friends after 6 o'clock." Though they disagreed strongly on almost every political issue, they were about to meet and be civil toward each other. I cannot imagine such a relationship existing today between a Democrats and a Republican of similar position. Perhaps it was merely a different time when politics wasn't quite so nasty, but Reagan was undeniably part of that time and deserves credit.
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Other than the obvious?
:evilgrin:
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. no sarcasm from me . . . the guy was genuinely likeable . . .
it was his policies that were hateful, but I'm sure he didn't see them that way . . . as I've said before, I have nothing negative to say about Reagan . . . I'm glad his suffering has ended, and as one human to another, I wish him well on his journey . . . wherever it may take him . . .
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coloradodem2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. It is interesting that Clinton and Dole have a good friendship...
...despite the fact that Dole ran against Clinton in 1996.


I cannot think of a single REAL Democrat that likes or respects Bush in any way. Zell Miller and his little band of traitors don't count.
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
54. Clinton and both Bushes get along well.
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jakefrep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. I wonder..
what Reagan would think of asshats like Tom DeLay, Trent Lott, and Newt Gingrich. They were among those most responsible for lowering public discourse into the gutter.
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hiphopnation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
97. methinks ye a farker....
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. Reagan stood up for gay teachers in California in the 1970's
There was a referendum to ban gay teachers in California and Reagan opposed it. That took guts, more than Carter had at the time, and for that he deserves praise.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Reagan also couldn't wait for the "bloodbath" to begin
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. note the title of the thread
I know there is plenty bad to say about the man.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. he also supported abortion rights
and signed one of the most prochoice bills ever in the state. and thankfully as president he never appointed enough anti choice justices to overturn roe v wade.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
47. Thanks
Didn't know about that one...
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. He could actually ride a horse, and he had a REAL ranch.
That's all I got.
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bhunt70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
7. its different now. Used to be that dems and repubs could coexist
now it's a lot more polarized on the hill.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. He didn't bump into the furniture in his movies
that's about it
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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
9. While many, nay most, of his policies were dreadful,
I think he meant well. He was in way over his head, and I suspect most of the worst policies out of his administration were orchestrated by his number two.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. he would never wear brown shoes with a blue suit.
that's about it....
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AwakeAtLast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. When he spoke, he pronounced words correctly
A certain person in a high elected office should review what that sounds like.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #12
41. not true
I saw his speech in the USSR during his famous trip there in 1988. He pronounced 'paradigm' like 'paradiggum'. He was a slave to the teleprompter.

Once when he was signing legislation with 3 pens (a common practice, the pens are auctioned off later for charity), he used 2 pens for his first and last name, then said "I wish I had a third name". Sam Donaldson said "Wilson, Mr. President."

Dumb, empty, hollow suit.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. He's dead.
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evil_orange_cat Donating Member (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. damn, you beat me to it
I was gonna say that. :(



;)
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Lori Price CLG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
74. Well, the stock market rallied today. Maybe it would skyrocket if...
Oops! Can't say it. But I can think it!!

Ronald Raygun was a Reichwing terrorist. But, I have no problem w. a thread like this existing on DU, for those who wish to post something positive about him.

Lori Price
http://www.legitgov.org/
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. The Reagan administration had no redeeming value
Reagan surrounded himself with crooks and ideologues (many of whom are still causing problems today), and was either himself a crook or an incompetent. His cabinet provided the cloth, if not the same cast of characters, for the current misadministration. He made all sorts of incredibly stupid statements that he accepted as fact. He supported mass murders in Central America and elsewhere, and likely had a hand in making sure that the hostanges in Iran were not released until after the 1980 election. He was constantly belittling people who were down on their luck, and used "liberal" as an epithet. He was popular because he appealed to the basest side of human nature.
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #14
63. I agree
"He was popular because he appealed to the basest side of human nature."

That was him- or at the very least, his administration and policies- in a nutshell. Your post is probably the best, most succint description of his administrations that I have ever seen.

I'm not happy Reagan is dead- but neither am I sad. You must give compassion to others in order to have it returned to you.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:56 PM
Response to Original message
15. the Challenger explosion
i was 7 years old when this happened and reagan seemed to have a "comforting" thing about him. that speech he gave was really good and it still is if you listen to it today. i can't hate reagan. as i got older and learned more about his presidency i can disagree with a lot of the things he did, but i just can't feel hatred for the man as some on here do. my memory of his presidency is as a kid sees a president which is someone to admire and look up to.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. Yes.... except it was written by Peggy Noonan
I remember driving back home from work and listening to the eulogy and tears welled in my eyes and at the same time I told to myself that these were not his words but what a performance.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. speeches often written by others, but it was the way Reagan came across
i don't think bush could have done it so well even with the same words right in front of him.

as you say he was a performer so he would be good at these things. but it's what america needs sometimes and he provided it at that moment.
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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
17. Not a damn thing
Edited on Sun Jun-06-04 10:59 PM by Sandpiper
I'm not going to pretend Reagan was a good President or a good person just because he's dead now.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. hm, I thought this was the DEMOCRATic underground
not the kiss-the-gop's ASS underground.

Reagan was an embarrassment, his presidency a disaster. Everything that is being reaped today was sown by Reagan.

He was the worst thing to happen to America since ..... well, since I don't know what.
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mastein Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #18
53. I hated the guy as much as anyone
as he helped turn my father's business into nothing, but he was a civil goodhearted man. Gotta give him something on that. Also, I agree we can learn lots on civility from the way he was posititve. My furvent hope is that W is defeated, as will Santorum, Nussle et. al lose so that those who appeal to the better side of human nature, like the Raygun did can once again surface and public life can truly mean service to the public.
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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #53
61. Reagan was not goodhearted
He was mean, venal, and had nothing but contempt for anyone who had dark skin or made less than a six figure salary. His alleged goodness is one of the most enduring myths about Ronald Reagan.

Know why he switched to the GOP? Because he was angry over the Civil Rights Act.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
22. He was an incredible orator,...capable of uniting passions.
He was an impressive actor.

He loved his wife.

He was loyal to those who were loyal to him.

He looked great as a fictional cowboy on a horse.

He successfully usurped credit from the will and strength of humanity to endure horrendous struggles,...in numerous ways.

He acknowledged a true hero in his speech 20 years ago.

He lived for ten years with alzheimers.

He still manages to piss people off, even though he is dead and gone.
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sybylla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
57. I never did get the "great communicator" label
Every time the guy opened his mouth I instinctively felt I was being lied to or deceived. Perhaps the deceit was that he was actually anything but a mouthpiece for Bush I. :shrug:
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The empressof all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. He was able to read in complete sentences
Unlike our current designated leader
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SarahB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
23. nice hair
like an aged Ken doll
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PartyPooper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
24. His wife / widow is a class act. She can actually wear clothes elegantly!
She's far from being a 'Stepford Wife' like Pickles.

:D
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #24
90. She's no Hillary Clinton, though.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
25. Not as bad as Shrub
That's the nicest thing I can say.
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sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
26. He didn't hang on for another 3-4 months...
better now than right before the election. :evilgrin:
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SoDesuKa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
27. He Was Divorced
Divorce used to carry a stigma. Maybe it still does, among religious fundamentalists. But it didn't when Reagan was president.

As a divorced person myself, I appreciated that.
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FDRrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
28. He never went bald...
Thats about all I can think of.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
29. Maybe he didn't vote for Bu$h in 2000?
:shrug:
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Funny thing is,...I completely believe he voted AGAINST #43. n/t
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #33
64. Are you joking?
Do you really know (or remember) that little about his administration to believe that he would be adverse to Shrub and what is going on now? His administration laid the freaking foundation for the repubs we deal with today. Geez...
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
30. He suffered.
It's people like him that make me hope there's a hell in the afterlife, barring that a living hell does just fine.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
31. Signing the 1986 Tax Reform act into law....
Although the tax-rates generally went down, many of the corrupt corporate tax shelters and loopholes were eliminated. This was the first among three steps which led to the surpluses of Clinton's Presidency.
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westsidexview Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-06-04 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
35. he won the presidency by the voters (as opposed to the courts)
the man could sway the voters. bush swayed no one unless you call the supreme court justices who decreed bush president swayed.
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neebob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
36. He sold a lot of Boraxo
Can anyone else touch him on Boraxo selling? I doubt it.
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
37. Can't really think of any
http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2004/06/ronald-reagan-1911-2004.html


Saturday, June 05, 2004
Ronald Reagan 1911-2004



The hagiography started as soon as they announced Reagan's death. How he ended the cold war, how he was a decisive leader, all this nonsense about Reagan which is just ridiculous.

The British have a tradition: when someone dies, their newspaper obituary tells the truth. Americans like to say something kind about the dead, no matter how scummy they were. Even Nixon got a halo in death, where only Hunter Thompson reminded people of who exactly he was and how the honors given him were, well, wrong.

This deification of Reagan began as soon as Clinton took office. There has been pressure to name everything but rest stop toilets after the man. Some right wing cranks wanted to add him to Mount Rushmore, as if FDR didn't exist. They forced his name on an unhappy Washington DC, by renaming the airport, still called by many, National.

So let's get past all the maudlin bullshit and discuss what Reagan really did.

First, Reagan rode to power on a wave of reaction to the Civil Rights struggle. California, a state with a deep well of racial resentment, supported Reagan, who would protect the establishment and call for students to be murdered on their campuses. Reagan was regarded as a crank by many on the left, but his appeal to middle America was strong. It wasn't that Reagan was a racist, as fas as is known, he wasn't. But he sure could pander to them, as he did in 1984 at Philadelphia, MS. For those of you unaware, that is the place three civil rights workers were murdered by the Klan. It would be like a British Prime Ministerial candidate going to Amritsar to talk about the glory of the British Army (the site of a 1921 massacre of peaceful Indian protesters). Reagan pandered to the racist right with ease, even as Barry Goldwater, the man he supported in 1964 with a convention speech, slowly backed away from many of his reactionary views. Instead, Reagan depicted blacks as "welfare queens" leeching off the society, when in reality, white women are the largest recipients of AFDC. Reagan used race like a club to hammer minorities and pander to the racist right.
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deacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:25 AM
Response to Original message
38. His head wasn't actually rusted, he dyed his hair n/t
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
39. I can think of only two or three
Bedtime for Bonzo
GE Theatre (GE...progress is our most important product)
Death Valley Days (sponsoring Boraxo)

I just grimace when people call him the "Great Communicator" Well holy crap, he was an actor, isn't communication his primary medium?
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drdtroit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
40. He was good
at spreading misery.
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
42. He had two kids that could think for themselves.
Ron Jr. and Patti are two wonderful people who can carry forward the good they saw in their father.
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crossroads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
43. He made ketchup popular...
...as a main meal...
:eyes:
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #43
93. So you are saying he has helped Kerry's campaign?
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
44. Why am I not surprised you'd be the one to start this thread?
Let's hear it for Reagan, everyone! What a wonderful guy! After 6 pm, he'd refrain from putting knives in your back! Woohoo!

And how about a big hand for all our DU Reagan apologists! We just love that folksy charm! At least uncle Ronnie smiled and said, 'Aw, shucks,' when he fucked us over! Not like these bastards today.

I hope all of you will hug a neocon today.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Brilliant mini-rant
I am so jealous.

I wasn't surprised, either.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #45
56. Get over it
Reagan is the Clinton of the left. Just as the right cannot stand the fact that Clinton is popular, the left cannot stand the fact that Reagan is popular. If you want to win any more elections, you best get over it.

Moreover, you two need to realize that the Democratic party cannot win without centrists like me. So go ahead and make fun of the fact that I'm trying to pull some decency and respect out a forum that is largely filled with hate directed and a dead man. If you really couldn't think of anything nice to say about the man you could have simply moved on and not posted. But no, you "so called liberals" cannot even summon up enough humanity to resist posting something nasty?

Sad.
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. Nederlander, long time no see.
I thought the last of the centrists fled DU in panic months ago. Just kidding!
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #56
68. cry me a river
Edited on Mon Jun-07-04 03:10 PM by meluseth
Hitler is dead, too--should I say something nice about him?

Reagan threads bother you? Get over it!
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #68
77. Learn to Read
What I said was if you can't say anything nice about a dead man, simply move on.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. And what I said was, too effin bad--I don't want to say something nice
And guess what? That's how a message board functions--you post your public comments--I post mine.

I wasn't responding to your smarmy sermon that opened this thread, anyway, but to what I considered to be a smart and funny comment about it by someone else entirely.

Don't like it? Too bad--get over it!
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #44
78. self-delete wrong post
Edited on Mon Jun-07-04 10:35 PM by meluseth

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RummyTheDummy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
46. He was self made
Unlike the current boy king who was born into a wealthy aristocratic family and had everything in his life handed to him.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
48. Unlike the Chimp he could deliver a coherent sentence
when delivering a prepared speech. He was also quick-witted--Bush has not sence of humor at all.
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
49. He didn't alienate the vast majority of our allies
Edited on Mon Jun-07-04 12:33 PM by nothingshocksmeanymo
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rniel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
50. Nice head of hair on his head.
for a really old man. If that was not some kind of transplant.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
51. He didn't let ideology cloud his relationship with Gorbachev
I found much of his obsession with communism to be bordering on insanity (if not crossing completely over) -- but he didn't allow that to cloud his relationship with Gorbachev.

Other than that, I honestly can't find too much about the guy that I liked, at least not as a national leader.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
52. I don't believe they had a real relationship.
Edited on Mon Jun-07-04 01:15 PM by BurtWorm
From what I've heard, Reagan was in a bubble, which he'd been accustomed to being in since his Hollywood days. He did not have close friends.
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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
55. He really came into his own as an actor
while president.
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
58. Reagan seemed a lot smarter than our current Idiot-in-Chief.
Maybe he was just acting smart.
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wadestock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
62. He graced us with his wonderful charm....
and embraced America with the thought that WE could keep the money that WE earned.

A kind man, perhaps could be likened to Dr. Jack Kevorkian....so kind to put our capitalistic system out of misery....take whatever profits could be made in the shortest amount of time....and put that in the hands of those that really deserve it....and who will eventually be able to move anywhere in the world to escape the terrible plight of America attempting to embrace the inherently business inefficient concept of helping those in need.

In the end, he should become a wonderful hero for the Chinese, who within 10 years will reap the benefits of capitalism gone mad and kick the collective asses of the slimy corporate goons in this country.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
65. I can still actually enjoy watching his movies.
Edited on Mon Jun-07-04 02:43 PM by TankLV
And he's not as great a scumbag in comparison to bunkerboy.

Too bad he wasn't more successful in the acting department (aside from his oscar-performance as President - sure didn't have any substance!) - then maybe we all would have been spared all the criminal acts and damage he has wrought upon us all.

Remember, if it wasn't for him, we probably would be dealing with any of the bushies as presidents now!

And I now believe his heart was in the right place - as in he meant well, even if his priorities were ass-backwards.
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John BigBootay Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
66. I like the fact that he pushed us to end the Cold War--
His methods were scary as hell. He joked about bombing in "five minutes. " I was convinced that I wouldn't survive his presidency--

But it worked. I'm not sure if the ends justify the means, but the facts are the facts--

He deployed Pershing II missiles, he projected force and talked tough scaring many Americans like me-- but scaring the jokers in the Kremlin as well.

The world is undeniably safer from nuclear armageddon now than it was 30 years ago.

And there are millions of people who live in more free societies than there were 30 years ago.

Reagan deserves a large portion of the credit for this.
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. he is a wonderful Mr. Murgatroyd


I now understand why Bush is being allowed to literally get away with outrageous murder and lies with hardly a whimper being heard anywhere except for a few places like DU and even here-there are people who simply are so full of guilt that they cannot find it within their heart to criticize evil acts performed by a president-being dead is, apparently, a sacrament that makes talking about the evil acts of a man, untouchable-we don't talk about those things now that he is dead and we do not do so out of "respect".

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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #67
91. Next assignment class; diagram the above sentence
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #66
72. He did that?
My impression was that Reagan's actions did prolong the Cold War, while arming the nation of Iraq and Afghanistan terrorists..whom the neocons once called freedom fighters. This arms race resulted in the production of WMD on both sides which would eventually be dismantled, and the contents of which must always be tightly guarded so that terrorists cannot build a nuke of their own! Now we must waste trillions of dollars on the occupation of Afghanistan, the occupation of Iraq, and buying dangerous uranium from nukes which Soviets built in response to Reagan's buildup. Now billions more are living in a state of poverty and ethnic bloodshed than the millions who can possibly dream of freedom. And even in America..life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is increasingly endangered by disease, despotism, and debt.

The Cold War was a victory for no nation, but it was a loss to every nation. I don't think any one person deserves the blame for beginning it, and no single person gets the credit for ending it.
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John BigBootay Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. Honestly--

We're spending billions "buying dangerous uranium from nukes which Soviets built in response to Reagan's buildup...???"

The USSR didn't possess a "dangerous" quantity of nuclear material UNTIL Reagan became president? And I have not heard of the US buying back nukes from Russia-- but honestly, if it were happening, it would be money well spent.

"Now billions more are living in a state of poverty and ethnic bloodshed than the millions who can possibly dream of freedom." Your definition of freedom differs from mine. I see freedom not as freedom from want, nor freedom from aggression-- but rather the freedom to vote, travel, own property, express dissent, etc.

You're not going to get me to argue that Reagan was a saint or a genius or some kind of a messiah-- no way. There is no such thing from any politician, but the man wanted to end the Cold War and he did it. He wanted to tear down the Iron Curtain and he did it.

What WE DO WITH THAT RESULT is up to US-- not him. He is not God and is not responsible for creating a perfect world. He merely recognized a terrible problem and initiated the fix.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. interesting response...
I agree that spending money to buy uranium from Russia to prevent terrorists from buying it is well spent, a program proposed by Sam Nunn and signed into law by President Clinton. But my point is that all of this money could have been used more constructively if not for the nuclear arms race! I did not state we were spending billions on that alone.

'Now billions more are living in a state of poverty and ethnic bloodshed than the millions who can possibly dream of freedom.' Your definition of freedom differs from mine. I see freedom not as freedom from want, nor freedom from aggression-- but rather the freedom to vote, travel, own property, express dissent, etc.

Did I define freedom as being freedom from want? All I was stating is that more people are living in a state of poverty and depotism at the end of the Cold War than during the Cold War. I do believe that freedom is not possible with aggression or injustice. And therefore it is impossible to have the right to vote, travel, own property, and express dissent without basic justice.

I believe Reagan was a good human being, I just think the world would have been better off if he had not been President! You say Reagan tore down the iron curtain, I say this aging curtain fell under its own weight. The Cold War was a terrible problem, and in many ways it was made longer and more expensive than necessary. Future generations shall pay the price for this mistake, and we must not repeat it again.
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
69. He was constitutionally limited to two terms
Can you imagine what a third term would've been like? With the Alzheimer's progressing, no less?!

:scared:

:nuke:
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ramapo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
70. He's no longer President
sorry...I didn't like him. Not even a little.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
71. He saved money
By cutting out school lunches for poor kids!

Like taking candy from a baby! The bastard!
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
73. Clinton and Gingrich got along. You have to get alone with House Speaker
if you want to get legislation passed.

Blumenthal wrote about this in The Clinton Wars. He says the far right wing of the Republican Party kicked Gingrich out because he was starting to like Clinton and was willing to work with him.

The only thing I can say for Tip O'Neil and the Dem's is that they had the sense not to punish Tip for trying to govern responsibly.
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Carl Brennan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
80. How about just not saying anything? Unless
you can point out the deceits and corruptions of Reagan.
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Heyo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
81. One thing for me is....
The Soveit Union and the communist machine was in full swing before he took office... by the time he left, it was no more....and that saved the world a huge amount of pain and suffering.

I'm not saying Reagan did it singlehandedly... but I definitely beliefe it could easily have turned out differently...

I liked Clinton, too, in the begining.. but I'm not sure what would've happened if the communist beast was still alive when he took office.. (I'm not knocking him... I realy don't know how that would've turned out)

Heyo
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #81
82. USSR was doomed anyway
Carter was the chief architect from the US side. RR stole Carter's anti-communist operation only after making a deal with the Iranians who held our hostages.
RR siglehandidly raised and left us with Osama bin Laden.
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #82
96. Yes, history will show that Carter ended communism in Russia.
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nomatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
83. Tip was friends with everyone, so that really doesn't go out
on a limb for Reagan.

If you watch the senate, John McCain gets respect from both sides.
So you really don't need imagination for that.

Politics were nasty then too. Were you not around for Nixon and Watergate? It wasn't all about Vietnam. According to accounts, the burglars were there to adjust bugging equipment they had installed during a prior May break-in and to photograph documents in the Democrats' files. If you listen to Nixon's tapes, you'll often hear him being "nasty" to the opposition. Even joked about nuking Vietnam to Kissinger to take the heat off of himself. He didn't think too much of the "gipper" to replace Agnew.

Then there was Carter after Ford. October surprise onto Ronald Reagan.
Something nice....

He was the oldest to be elected.

He didn't use condescending, Orin Hatch-like, neocon speak.

He didn't die in office.

I don't believe he was "intentionally" bad as Nixon or either Bush.

Please quite the crap with this illusion of "politics got bad with Clinton" B.S. Read some of the books on past presidents, not autobiographies. That's what politics are. Some people have hated a president enough to kill him. Now that's nasty!
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 04:17 AM
Response to Original message
84. He wasn't twins, or more
Cliche, perhaps, but the only positive aspect I can think of.
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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 05:13 AM
Response to Original message
85. The hair color he maintained in his presidency was pretty nice
In fact, I realized the other day while inevitably seeing that hair multiple times in one newscast, that it is almost identical to the color I maintain. I considered changing mine, but honestly, it really is an attractive color.

Do I get extra points for thinking up a second good thing about RR for this thread?
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
86. he was a hollywood hero and got an aircraft carrier named after him......
Edited on Tue Jun-08-04 07:21 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
oh wait he did lead the US in that other GREAT WAR>>>>>Granada...my bad
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stavka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
87. He was not a cannibal
He did not actively support the reinstallation of the Romanov Czar

He never wrote a broadway musical exclusively for puppets.

He was taller than many Star Wars extras
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
88. Reagan used 'non-lethal' gas...
...when he ordered the gassing of peaceful protestors...both as governor and as president. That was awful nice of him.
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 08:35 AM
Original message
I use non-lethal gas on my own family, daily.
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #88
92. I use non-lethal gas on my own family, daily.
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
89. Reagan had
white straight teeth. I don't know if the teeth were false, but he had a good set of chompers.

Thats the only thing good about Reagan I can think of. Sorry.
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Bettie Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
94. One good thing...
His administration was filled with crooks, his policies were not ones I would agree with in any world, but there is one thing that stands out about the man.

He loved his wife and she loved him.

Whether you like or hate them, they always stood together.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
95. Once he was BOUGHT, Ronnie STAYED owned.
Can say that much for him.

The Corruption of Ronald Reagan

Copyright © 1986, 1989, 1999 by Dan E. Moldea

President Bill Clinton’s enemies love to make much of his Hollywood connections, as well as his testimony before a federal grand jury and an odd land deal in which he and his wife lost money.

Yet, they refuse to compare the Clinton record with the case history of Ronald Reagan, whom most Clinton-haters continue to worship and attempt to canonize.

Once again, the President’s harsh critics continue to demonstrate that they have two conflicting standards for public officials: one for those they like and another for those they don’t like.

For instance, consider the following:

Ronald Reagan was an invention of the Hollywood conglomerate, MCA, which was founded in 1924 by Jules Stein, a Chicago ophthalmologist who quickly became friendly with the local underworld. Every facet of Reagan’s life, from his careers in acting and politics to his financial successes, were directed by MCA, which, with the help of the Mafia, was the most powerful force in Hollywood from the mid-1940s until the Bronfman family purchased the company in 1995.

CONTINUED...

http://www.moldea.com/ReaganRedux.html
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