Freeper: "We have gotten too negative, too nasty, too petty, small-minded"

[JohnLocke]

Would Ronald Reagan have appreciated FreeRepublic?
----
I've thought about this for the past few days and I have to answer no. We have gotten too negative, too nasty, and too petty and small-minded.
I've been registered as PolitBase since March but have followed the discussion since 1999. Every now and again -- particularly with people such as OWK (when was he finally punted off anyway?) I have thought that we reach for something better in ourselves.
But too often it is hatred and pettiness. Do you think Ronald Reagan would ever have said or thought the ugly things that are said about Hillary Clinton or Janet Reno? No -- whatever he may have thought about their politics, he was too much of a gentleman to post or write the ugly things that are said and written here with such ease.
There are times, such as this morning, when I am ashamed by this site.
----
From another poster:

"I totally agree that RR would not be proud of this site. And that I'm very ashamed to admit that I take part in the nastiness, sometimes. Truly, however, some of the posts are just over the top, and I don't see how they are allowed to remain.
"Sinking to the level of Democratic Underground? Every time I read someone's comment about "John F'n Kerry," I am reminded of DU's nastiness, ugliness and vulgar language. We should be ashamed of ourselves, but I suppose winning the votes of a bunch of guys who talk like they're in a locker run instead of a public forum where men, women, and children may be viewing is more important to the owner of the forum. In the long run, however, I think we do a disservice to conservatism and the Republican Party.
"I think this should be a period of great reflection on who we are and what we have become. No matter what "they" do, we have responsiblity over our responses. That is just a fact.
"Reagan democrats did not vote for him because he hit them over their heads and insulted them at every turn. He didn't talk about how ugly their women were, and he certainly didn't talk about how ugly their children were."

[NMDemDist2]

1. so sad that calls for civility get mostly ignored on both sites eom

[tom_paine]

17. Too late for civility. We are building to Civil War

Free Amnerica will NOT back down. The Bushevik are all programmed and ready to staff the Concentration Camps if they are told to.

Just another generation or two who was born and rasied in the Old American Republic needs to pass away for the Imperial Aturmtruppent o rise.

I am not wishing for it, but I no longer honestly see another way ut.

Civil War within 100 years, perhaps much sooner.

Is it worthwhile to be civil to Nazis?

It is the same with Busheviks (or Bolsheviks, for that matter).

[LoZoccolo]

22. I agree there's a riot goin' on.

Which is why we need to actually be on the other side of the bullshit rather than imitating it.

[liberalpress]

32. Johnny's in the basement

Mixing up the medicine
I'm on the pavement
Thinking about the government
The man in the trench coat
Badge out, laid off
Says he's got a bad cough
Wants to get it paid off
Look out kid
It's somethin' you did
God knows when
But you're doin' it again

[4_Legs_Good]

2. I'd love to see the partisan bickering end...

so we can focus on real issues.

What a nice legacy that would be for Reagan.

david

[LTR]

3. Surprised RimJob hasn't banned him yet

I like this example of hypocricy:

Do you think Ronald Reagan would ever have said or thought the ugly things that are said about Hillary Clinton or Janet Reno?

Are you referring to people taking potshots at their looks? Only a small minority around here do that. Criticizing their politics is fair game, even if the criticism is harsh.

The irony is, many of these people call us 'traitors' and 'un-American' when we do it.

[Mz Pip]

4. Wow

Something I can agree with.

I suspect calls for civility will go unheeded on both sites.

MzPip
:dem:

[Commendatori]

5. You know, I may not be as filled with hate towards

Reagan or the rest of his ilk that was perfectly content to let AIDS ravage what he seemed to think was only the gay community, but I also say "screw these calls for civility."

If it were Clinton instead of Reagan, the Freepers would be hosting keg parties. Being nice to Repugs never did our side any favors, and I see no reason why people should be battered into civility when it's not in them. Better to see where everyone really stands.

[4_Legs_Good]

9. Reagan was loved by a lot of people,

and I think that merits our respect. I'm not going to change my opinion of the man or his policies because he's dead, but I will show some civility to those who did love him and are mourning.

I think the fact that some of them would be throwing keggers if Clinton died and we are not shows, very clearly, that we are "better" than them. There's nothing wrong with trying to walk the moral high ground, in my opinion.

Just my thoughts. I've been practicing all weekend so that I can say, without getting into an argument, to my republican co-workers "I'm sorry for your loss" today.

david

[Commendatori]

12. That's great, and I respect that.

As I said in a different post, Reagan's tax policy helped my parents immeasurably, so as someone who looks at his family before anything else, I'm indebted to him somewhat.

I'm not saying that the moral high ground is wrong, I'm saying that it shouldn't be mandatory. I think Reagan himself would agree with me, even in a thread regarding his death.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

34. Just shows how many people truly did not know the....

...REAL Ronald Reagan behind the public veneer.

One more point...every single time we've tried to "walk the moral high ground" we've had our legs cut out from under us. It's time for the gloves to come off, and for the playground bullies to get the sound thrashing that they deserve.

I'm tired of our politicians like Daschle publicly whining out an apology to the NeoCons every time there's a issue. I'm also tired of hearing this same theme repeated on DU. Nice guys get run over and NEVER finish the race...it's time to lace-up, fasten the chin-strap, and knock some heads!

[LoZoccolo]

24. Being un-nice to Clinton fucked them up.

As I recall, Clinton's popularity shot up during his scandal, and a lot of congressional Republicans got canned in the 1998 election. People talk about how slimy the Republican tactics are, but they don't talk about how they backfire.

I'm all for being agressive and loud in pointing out the wrongs and whateve, but being full of shit and raw poorly-directed anger is another thing. And so is not using it to clear stuff out for a positive agenda.

[Qanisqineq]

6. hey, I agree with a freeper!

I think that could apply to more than just FR sometimes *cough, cough*

[Vickers]

7. An undercover DUer probably posted that

:eyes:

[PretzelWarrior]

28. i don't think so. stop the hate.

people who disagree with you aren't automatically brainless and evil. very good folks out there who just happen to have a vested interest in a majority of GOP platform and support this guy despite his misdeeds.

[Vickers]

38. Fantastic post, bransonfu, and I agree with all of your points

See, I posted that as a joke...notice the little emoticon?

It was a comment on, well, exactly the same thing you said: despite our political differences with folks on "the other side," there are decent folks in both camps.

When we have it so ingrained in us otherwise is when we run in to the ideological division we've seen the last, oh 25 years or so.

[JI7]

8. this kind of reminds me of Dennis Miller getting booed by Republicans

when dennis miller attacked robert byrd for the KKK thing which was long time ago and which robert byrd has many times apologized for.

it was at some republican event held not too long ago and dennis miller was going after those who were anti war. but they booed when he tried to attack byrd as a kkk guy.

[lanparty]

20. It takes courage to change !!!!

So I think we should all forgive those ex-KKKers and ex-NeoNazis. They blaze a trail for others to follow.

Remember, this type of evil propaganda traps it's audience as well as it's target. Those in Freeper-ville are victims in a sense as well.

Remember after the Civil War. Congress wanted to "get tough" with the south. But Lincoln wanted to treat the south as the returning prodigal son. It's truly a shame that Lincoln was killed. If the North had treated southerners better, we may not have been in these predicaments.

So just remember to love the Freeper and HATE the FREEP. Your ultimate goal is to get him to come over to our side. It's VERY hard to get someone to join you when your accusing them of being an unholy monster.

[Sterling]

31. Give me a break

If we had treated the south any better the wheels would have fallin off this counrty well before now. In fact what you are witnessing is the decline of our nation as a result of not being HARD enough on the south.

Look at all the confederate flags still part of state flags in the south. The south has held a grudge against the north for taking their slaves away and more so since the civil rights movement. The south has still not earned the right to influence our society yet it dominates our political landscape at this late hour.

The (old) south and the bigotry it represents are at the route of our current crisis.

[Jose Diablo]

40. Yep, who you think are the Reagan Democrats

Many were/are the bigots that embraced Reagans racism. RW uber conservatives now.

[Carolina]

41. thank you, JB and Sterling,

for pointing out that racism was at the core of Reagan's appeal and the rise of repukes (former Dixiecrats). That is why I cut Reagan no slack, alive or dead.

Also, read The Hunting of the President, racism was at the heart of repukes' obsessive Clinton hatred since he was perceived as a traitor to his race. After all what was worse than a ni--ah, a ni--ah lover!

[Sterling]

29. Well I am sure many of the GOPers were members of the KKK

They probably were offended miller was making fun of their friends. I doubt it was because they have so much respect for Byrd or the struggle for racial equality.

Don't be so ichy to give these people props ok?

[rumguy]

10. They all line up and bash him/her!

The freeptards are addicted to hate. They need it like Rush needs his little pills.

[Justice]

11. I heard Walter Mondale this weekend

Talking about his campaign against Reagan, and how he was so impressed that the campaign never became personal, and that he and Reagan campaigned on the issues.

It was in response to a question that almost invited Mondale to be partisan - I was impressed that Walter took the high road, and that he had a high road to talk about.

The republicans have themselves to blame for the dissension into *$(% of American politics because of the way in which they treated Bill Clinton.

[tjwash]

14. Reagan "fairness"

Quotes from Reagan:

"Recession is when your neighbor loses his job. Depression is when you lose yours. And recovery is when Jimmy Carter loses his."

"What does an actor know about politics?" –criticizing Ed Asner for opposing American foreign policy.

"I want you to know that also I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience." -during a 1984 presidential debate with Walter Mondale

"We are trying to get unemployment to go up, and I think we're going to succeed."

"If I listened to Mr. Dukakis here, I would be convinced that there were people without jobs, and without health insurance, and that some people can't afford to buy food, or that we need to do something about the homeless..."

The original case of flip-flopping:

"I favor the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and it must be enforced at gunpoint if necessary."

"I would have voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964."

"A Hippie is someone who walks like Tarzan, looks like Jane and smells like Cheetah."

[denverbill]

15. I'll ditto that.

The bile that's spewed from Limbaugh, Boortz, Savage, and the VWRC over the last 12 years is unprecedented. I opposed Reagan staunchly in the 80's, but I didn't hate all Republicans viscerally. When Clinton took office, and the smear campaign began, it was a campaign not just against Clinton, but against all Democrats and all liberals. It has now gotten to the point where many Republicans share the demonized attitude towards Democrats and liberals to the point where debate has become impossible.

Ronald Reagan is sure as hell no hero of mine, but I will say that I do believe he was a decent person. There is no way in hell he would've approved of the relentless character assassination against Bill, Hillary, Chelsea, Gore, Daschle, and now beginning against Kerry.

It would be nice if there was a return to civilized debate, but I spent 8 years trying to be civil and getting nothing but shit in return. When Rush and Ilk start speaking civilly about Democrats and liberals, I'll start doing the same towards Republicans and conservatives.

[EndElectoral]

13. Bullshit!

When the media is sending out direct lies about his record, mischaracterizing history, and propagandizing the truth, is it civil to sit demurely and shut up? Perhaps to some.

On the first day of Reagan's death, I kept queit out of respect for Reagan's family, but the news media and Bush is using this to drown out everything going on today and distorting the past. Even D-Day remembrance took a back seat to this for god's sake. Sibel Edmonds was canceled on Sixty Minutes. I don't remember this for Nixon, for Ike, or any President except Kennedy who was killed in office.

Reagan's fiscal, and social record was horrendous...the myth that he brought down communism absurd..and yet, these misleading reports by the networks are indocrinating unknowing people into beleiving what is patently false.

Thomas Paine was never civil...and he'd be speaking out about this propaganda now. Yes, grieve for his family, send them sympathy cards, but DO NOT DISTORT this man's record as some great American President because he was a one liner comedian with a warm smile, and a vicious heart. Ask all those kids cut from the school lunch programs, ask those people dying of aids which he did nothing about, and ask those marines who died in Lebanon..my god the list goes on...Let's not make a hero of this man....Putting a wreath on the tomb of the unknown soldier for Vietnam for politcal purposes when in fact he knew the identiy of the soldier but wanted to keep it hushed up. He was not as bad as GW or Nixon, and he had a nice smile and soothing voice...That's the best that can be said about him.

[tom_paine]

18. Well said, sir!

and welcome to DU

:toast: :toast:

[apnu]

21. Welcome to DU and I love the name!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. I'm glad he had an illuminated moment,

but the truth is, that they will never change because there are too many of them and it is too easy for them to regress into their hate mode when they get pushed too hard. And they will be pushed, because this is a competitive world and it only takes one idiot right-winger with a radio talk-show to unravel them by coming up with one example out of hundreds where a minority won out over whites.

[troublemaker]

19. Yes, thanks for not rubbing our nose in it.

"Reagan democrats did not vote for him because he hit them over their heads and insulted them at every turn. He didn't talk about how ugly their women were"

It's a nice post. It's also bullshit. Reagan was the happy sunny loveable front man for a rather Nixonian pack of heartless thugs and was largly responsible for a lot of this 'incivility.'

[Media_Lies_Daily]

36. That's YOUR opinion. How do you respond to the fact that Reagan...

..took false information given to him by J. Edgar Hoover and used it to publicly state during the McCarthy hearings that certain people in the film industry were suspected of being "communists"? How do you respond to the fact that he helped RUIN hundreds of people, a legacy that lingers in the film industry to this very day?

How do you respond to the fact that Reagan knew exactly what was going on in Central America and other parts of the world where the people we supported were eliminating their political opponents, to include women, children, and the elderly?

How do you respond to the fact that Reagan used tell war stories about WWII until someone reminded him that he was never in combat during WWII?

But you want to blame it all on the "a rather Nixonian pack of heartless thugs" instead of placing at least part of the blame on Reagan where it really belongs?

Based on your post, do you also believe that the FratBoy Fuhrer is also the "happy sunny loveable front man for a rather Nixonian pack of heartless thugs"??

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. I wonder if they called for unity when

the damn repukes were spending 8 YEARS trying to take down Clinton???! Hell no they weren't! Sorry freepers! It's war! It's payback time for all the shit the repukes pulled during the Clinton years.

[keithyboy]

25. To evil people, the truth always sounds nasty, mean, and hateful.

That's how you can separate good people from evil people...just throw them in tub full of truth and see who rises to the top.

[JohnLocke]

27. Excellent advice (nt).

[Downtown Hound]

26. Finally, a freeper sees the truth

Yep they are petty, small-minded, and nasty. As for our side being angry, well shit! It wasn't our side that declared a culture war on them! It wasn't our side that launched an illegal and unnecessary invasion of Iraq. It isn't our side that continually wants to rape the environment, give tax cuts to the wealthy, lock up poor black people for drugs but let a conservative radio host get off the hook for it, stampede on the rights of gays and lesbians, controls the media and then complains that they have no voice in it, oh man I could go on and on, but I think you get the idea.

Yeah, I'm fucking pissed at these people. As far as I'm concerned they're scum. They are the enablers of all these atrocities. Without their support, the crimes of the Bush administration would never be allowed to manifest.

[BeFree]

35. Well said, Mr. Hound. Welcome to DU

The freeper news is not good. * is getting trounced in the polls, by justice, and by the false war he started.

Freeps are on the wrong side as has become evident since RR has been brought back from the dead via the internet. Their whole reason for being is now exposed for all to see!

They look over here and see what America is really about... and it's not the not the lily-white fantasy land they've been living in. They are cracking and we will continue to enlarge the fissure until a total collapse occurs.

[calimary]

42. And frankly, WE could say a thing or two about how ugly THEIR

women are. Inside as well as out. And how drunk/drugged and disorderly their children are.

You know something? If that's how they wanna play, FINE. But they better know they won't have the game to themselves. Not if I'm within earshot.

The only way to take down a bully is to slam 'em with their own medicine. Hit 'em back, and hit 'em back HARD. We should show them the same mercy they've shown us, and the Clintons.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

30. How many years of searching did it take to find those two posts?

[MGKrebs]

33. It's really the wrong target.

My memory is that it was Newt Gingrich who started this crazy escalation of attack rhetoric. It just happened to be while Reagan was Prez. Russ Limbo soon followed, then Dick Morris, O'Reilly, Hannity and the rest.

Ronald Reagan did his dirty work without the nasty rhetoric, so If conservatives suddenly feel remorse at the ugly tone of partisanship nowadays, they would be better served by holding their measuring stick up to those who actually exploited, or even nurtured, their frustrations, and made it OK to hate. Repudiating THEM would be a more meaningful step, not holding the object of their attacks (us) up as an anti-role model.

What did they expect, that we would just shut up and go away? Sorry, dudes, you have misunderestimated us.

[dogman]

39. Maybe you weren't conscious when RR was Gov.

Meese was his goon then and the hatred against the people was just getting started.

[KamaAina]

37. Sinking to the level of Democratic Underground?!

Sinking to the level of Democratic Underground? Every time I read someone's comment about "John F'n Kerry," I am reminded of DU's nastiness, ugliness and vulgar language.

They should be so lucky! "John F'n Kerry", indeed. Our names for what's-his-face are at least creative: Chimpy, DimSon, Pretzeldunce, etc. Couldn't they at least call Kerry "Lurch" or something?