Why is it it OK to use the "N" word if you are Black?

[trumad]

I am currently in a debate on another forum with a dude who seems to think that if Blacks can call each other "nigger" then why can't whites use the word. He's also asking why Gay's can use the term "Faggot" towards each other when it's inappropriate for non-Gays to use the word.

I admit I am having a hard time coming up with an answer that will spank him a bit so I thought I'd come back home and ask my brilliant DU Brothers and Sisters to give me a hand in this....

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. I've found it's only with the "kids"

and they know damn well it pisses a lot of the adults off.
It's a juvenile thing.

[radwriter0555]

56. It's isn't correct or acceptable in ANY polite company, no matter

what color or ethnicity someone is.

People that use words like that weren't raised right, is all.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

63. To hear it breaks the heart of many older blacks

I have read.

[Warpy]

2. Same reason it's OK to use the "B" word if you're female.

It's ironic humor. From outside an oppressed group, it's just nasty.

[rogerashton]

13. I don't believe so.

I have often heard Black folks use that term in reference to other Black folks with no humorous intent, though often with only mild derogation. Come to that, I have been called a "nigger" by a Black person, seemingly with considerable derogatory intent -- I have blue eyes, lank blond hair, and skin that sunburns really bad -- and by a person who seemed to be Black and seemed to think I seemed to be white, though we could not see one another.

I must admit that those experiences took place decades ago, though.

[AspenRose]

3. It's not.

At least it wasn't in my household.

[Catfight]

35. I agree, it's simply NOT okay under any circumstance. n/t

[ibegurpard]

4. I would say

Who cares? Why do you want to use that word to begin with?

[rucky]

5. Tell him he can if he wants.

but be sure to let us know how that works out for him.


the point is, African Americans have control over how the word is used, not whites. Maybe a white person may think it's unfair, so what... so's the n-word.

[hiphopnation]

14. Bingo.

When he gets his little ass whipped as a result of calling a group of black kids "niggers", let's see how he feels about it then.

The word has been internalized by the black community and, in a very sophisticated form of silent revolt, they have hijacked it as a term by which they refer to eachother.

Don't like it? Tough.

[Athletic Grrl]

68. hiphopnation:

Can you define its use? When I hear kids use it as I pass on the street, it sounds basically like an insult similar to calling someone a dork or idiot. I've also heard it used like home boy, but not as much. Granted, I don't watch much hip-hop or MTV stuff, so I could be way off base here....

I guess my question is whether there is a real definition or is it in fact an amorphous term that can mean whatever the speaker wants it to mean?

[hiphopnation]

83. I think you've answered your own question.

I would venture to say that in the street context the use of the word is scarcley used as an insult i.e. "what's up my nigga? Who's that nigga there? damn that nigga got some fresh flow." etc.

Then there is the Chris Rock sketch where he proclaims "I love me some black people...but I haaate niggas." That is an obvious dig to a certain type of black person that he is disdaining.

But, in general, I doubt that one black person addressing another using the term is considered insulting. And the term obviously takes on different meaning when it comes from a white person. Right?

[frankly_fedup2]

37. Well, I'm not a racist; however, I live in the deep South

and the people around here have no problem whatsoever using that term. They are staunch Republicans and so-called Christians; however, the blacks know their place (according to them) and so do the gays. There are never any riots and the KKK will have a parade every year. I have never went; however, there are a lot of people who do go, and they are not black.

You do realize there is still (unfortunately) a KKK. They are just a little more quiet about things.

In the small town that I live, there are small pamphlets thrown on our driveway at night with a lot of propaganda from them and
Lyndon LaRouche (I think that is his name???)

The Grand Dragon of the KKK lives here. I do not know who it is; however, our county Sheriff lives 3 houses down from me. Makes me kind of wonder about things though.

[LoZoccolo]

6. Cuz you know it's not serious...

...that way.

[still_one]

7. It's not, but everyone has there first ammendment rights

[greekspeak]

8. Why gays do it

1) Reclaim the term
2) Defuse its venom, neutralizing its sacrosanct character as a slur
3) Group cohesion via common memory

I assume that it works the same way for other minorities.

[jpgray]

11. As a straight man, I do my part by carrying a stack of firewood around

:D

[Blue-Jay]

15. Hahahaha!

Good one!

[Beaker]

67. that's pretty much it in a nutshell...

although i'm not black or gay, I am a gimp.

[Servo300]

9. My answer:

It's NOT o.k.

[slinkerwink]

10. because it's "owning" the word to "lessen the impact of hate" that it has

[Az]

12. The idea comes from owning the word in order to defuse the oppression

Its like ribbing your friends but insulting them. They know you do not mean it in a hostile way. Because the dialog is between peers it carries no hostility.

But in the case of the word nigger when a white person uses it there is no peer relationship. The word itself originated in this oppressive relationship and its use by a white person merely reflects this. Used between blacks it is defused enough that it can enter into the ribbing aspect again. Although even in that case it is frowned on depending on the particular group.

[CatWoman]

19. Az -- you are so smart

:D

I wanted to post an answer, but after reading yours I can't find anything to add.

[Redleg]

16. I believe it's never OK to use the N word.

Just my opinion.

[Comicstripper]

17. Obviously

It's because there's clearly no racism involved when blacks say it among themselves. I don't know too many black Klansmen (with the notable exception of Clayton Bigsby). That assurance isn't there when whites say it.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

18. Same Reason It's OK for Your Sibling to Cap on Your Own Mom

But if an outsider does it, they will rue the day.

Same analogy.

DTH

[skypilot]

20. It's NOT OK for blacks to use it.

Take it from me. Just because some DO use it doesn't make it OK. It's just as offensive coming out the mouth of a black person as from anyone else. It's one of the reasons I gave up on hip hop music years ago. You should also ask your friend why it is that some white people are so keen on using the word and are trying so hard to come up with a justification to do so.

[hiphopnation]

25. I agree that the taboo nature

of the word is ever-increasing, but to give up on hip hop entirely because of the use of the word seems to be "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" so to speak.

The word is indelible. Hoplessly forged into the lexicon of a few generations of blacks and whites. Irregardless of this, what's the point of giving up on such a brilliant form of modern music?

[skypilot]

27. That's not the only reason i gave up on hip hop.

I'm not going to enumerate all of my reasons, but the use of the word "nigger" is NOT the only one.

[hiphopnation]

42. There are some serious problems

with some of the images and stereotypes that are promulgated in the entire hiphop oeuvre (especially of late), no doubt.

But, much as the blues and jazz helped to spur world-wide musical and cultural revolutions, hiphop has moved far beyond music and race in its scope, as well as beyond the borders of the United States. It's changed clothing, language, music, race-relations (for the better or worse, depending where you fall in that argument) and a myriad of other areas in society. (On a side note, what happens when you've got young Asian kids calling each other "my nigga"? What is the nature of the word in that context?)

The word is contentious and arguably, damaging. But it is but a very small fraction of the larger hiphop revolution, one that has helped force issues of race, gender, & class politics in the modern musical lexicon. In a sense, it is the new folk music.

If white people are still scratching their heads wondering how blacks can still get a way with calling each other "that word" then, IMHO, it's use in that context is still relevant.

As I said earlier, if white people want to experiment with how caustic the black community still finds the word, by all means, go ahead and try and use it with a black friend. See what happens.

If your abandoning of hiphop was not solely due to the use of the word, then you must also know to what minuscule extent the word is part of the larger foundational definition of hiphop.

[skypilot]

46. Look.

I don't like hip hop for lots of reasons, just like there are other forms of music that I don't care for. I'm sure there's some hip hop out there to be admired but I'm not wading through all the crap to get to it. If that means I'm missing out...I can live with it.

And I've noticed hip hop's influence on language and fashion and I have to say that I don't much care for that either.

[hiphopnation]

71. You miss my point entirely.

Whether or not you like the MUSIC, hiphop culture has seeped into and is an inescapable, ubiquitous part of popular American and world culture. Whether or not you care for the language, clothes, attitude, or music that comes from it, you are influenced by it in just about every way, and have been for nigh on thirty years now.

Hiphop could really give a damn whether you choose to wade through the "crap" to find stuff that is worth your lofty and revered critique. Even if we want to go at this from a strictly musical standpoint, do you like modern rock, pop, even some country? Where do you think they got those nifty beats that have helped to keep the above mentioned genres from fading into obscurity? That's right, hiphop.

But back to the lesson at hand, the N word, as used in hiphop, though abstruse and puzzling to some whites, does still serve a purpose, if at least to spur conversations like this one.

edit: spelling

[CatWoman]

21. Tru -- do you ever take a rest?

:D

[trumad]

44. Well... No

but I am in serious debate on another forum... This is not intended as flame bait... I just need an answer...AZ helped a bit up above...

[CatWoman]

54. LOL

What I meant was, do you ever take a break from starting trouble?

DU not enough for you?

Now you are on other forums starting up.

Bad, Tru!!!

Bad!!!

:D

[trumad]

64. I've been kicked off of 3 football forums...

and it's usually because of politics... Football and politics do not mix.

[jdsmith]

22. Dick Gregory's dedication of the book _Nigger_ to his Mom

"Whenever you ever hear the word 'nigger,' remember, they're advertising my book."

[Feanorcurufinwe]

23. It's not.

It's an offensive, racist term. I'm white, and I find the term offensive. If I were to overhear two blacks using the term I'd be no less offended than if I were to overhear two whites using the term.

[CatWoman]

24. so, If I call one of my siblings "nigger", that would offend you?

Heavens to Betsy!!!!!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. Only if for some reason you did so in my hearing.

Since the chances of me overhearing what you have to say is zero, you can say anything you want, no matter how racist or offensive, without having to worry about offending me. Have at it.

[CatWoman]

32. but how are the chances of you overhearing diminished?

I can hear conversations in the offices on each side of me.

as long as people are not talking to ME, I give less than a fuck.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

39. I don't understand the title of your post.

"but how are the chances of you overhearing diminished?"

I don't know what that means. I am sitting in my house in the woods of Montana far, far away from you and there is absolutely no chance whatsover of me overhearing what you say. That is what I meant in my previous post. That is why there is no chance of something you say offending me.


I can hear conversations in the offices on each side of me.

as long as people are not talking to ME, I give less than a fuck.


I'm not asking you feel the same way as I; if you're not offended by the people around you making racist or otherwise offensive remarks, great.

[CatWoman]

40. will you always be sitting in your home; far, far, away?

you can overhear people almost anywhere.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

43. Look - I'm not sure what your point is - could you please tell me?

As I said, I find the word offensive, no matter who utters it. If you choose to think less of me for that reason, fine.


I am not offended by things I am unaware of, therefore, you can take any action, utter any word you want, without fear of offending me, unless you also plan on going out of your way to make me aware of your potentially offensive behavior. If by some chance, were to I overhear you say something that offends me, I would make my best effort not to let that unduly influence my subsequent opinion of you.

I'm not offended by your secondhand report of using the word. I can't remember ever being offended by anything you've posted at DU. However, I'm sure we are both capable of doing and saying things that would offend the other - so what?

[CatWoman]

51. oh, calm down

I don't think less of you for anything.

You bought up the point of "overhearing", and I was just screwing with you.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

55. I'm calm.

You bought up the point of "overhearing", and I was just screwing with you.

Yeah, I know.

Thing is, I prefer to be treated with the same amount of respect I show others.

But, it's your choice how to behave. I post on DU in order to learn, to share my viewpoint, and hear other viewpoints. If you want to post on DU in order to 'screw with' people, that is within your ability.

[CatWoman]

58. I think you are making, or trying to make, way too much out of this

1. You said overhearing someone call someone else a nigger would offend you.

2. I asked if I called my sibling a nigger would that offend you. Seems to me that my sibling should be offended, not you.

3. You said that you were very far away from me, and wouldn't hear me anyway. Which is strange, as the question was hypothetical.

4. I tried to point out that I hear all kinds of conversations going on around me, but what is being said by other people don't faze me. I said that to emphasize that you can hear other's conversations without trying to hear them.

5. This all started by me asking a simple, hypothetical question to your comment about being offended by overhearing someone calling someone else a name. Again, it would appear to me that the person being called the name would get offended, not an involuntary eavesdropper.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

62. You are welcome to your interpretation of events.

5. This all started by me asking a simple, hypothetical question to your comment about being offended by overhearing someone calling someone else a name.


correct. Your simple, hypthetical question:

If I call one of my siblings "nigger", that would offend you?

My simple, unambiguous answer:

Only if for some reason you did so in my hearing. Since the chances of me overhearing what you have to say is zero, you can say anything you want, no matter how racist or offensive, without having to worry about offending me.



And now you say:

Again, it would appear to me that the person being called the name would get offended, not an involuntary eavesdropper.

To which I say, yes, that is how it appears to you. :eyes:

[Blue_Tires]

26. i used to use it

when i was like 13, but then i quickly grew out of it, and have tried to discourage it's use among other brothers and sisters (especially the younger ones). I'd always ask "No matter how tight you are with someone, why would you EVER call them by a term used by yesterday's plantation owners and overseers, and today's nazis and klansmen for centuries?"

[AspenRose]

28. Exactly

If we don't respect ourselves, amongst each other, you're giving the outside world a free pass to harbor disrespect.

[AngryAmish]

30. Don't know, don't care

I'm a white guy and I have been called that in a playful sense by black guys. I was not offended. However, it does not work in reverse. I can live with that.

[Karenina]

41. You are correct

that it does not "work" in the reverse. I would conjecture that your friends calling you that was a signal of intimacy, acceptance and inclusion. Language is organic and very nuanced, no matter of what origin.

[sangh0]

31. Anyone can use the n word

but it should be used consistently, and something tells me this "dude" is a white dude, and he would use the term with his white dude friends, but would be scared to use the word in front of black dudes and black dudettes.

So tell this dude, is he wants to use the n-word, he can come to NYC and I'll bring him to Harlem where he can shout the n-word to his heart's delight

[GumboYaYa]

33. Words are symbols.

They mean different things in different contexts. IMO there is nothing inherently inappropriate about the word. The negative connotation comes from the way it is used and by whom. When it is used as a put-down or to gain power over another person it is innapproriate regardless of the skin color of the person uttering the words.

[Solly Mack]

34. Because it's a way to own the word (s)

This is not to say I concur at how effective the measure is but that's how it's always been explained to me.

Racists and homophobes use the words as a means to hurt...a way to express their hatred toward another through the use of angry/ugly/hateful language.

If I call myself these names, then I now "own" the word... I use it on my terms and around those who understand my intent. In the process, I remove a lot of the sting and pain from the words.

However, don't let someone outside the "fold" use them against me...for their intent is to harm and express hate...and I will react accordingly.

it's a subtle difference that requires being on the receiving end of such hatred to fully understand and appreciate...though a good many people understand the nuances even if they can't relate.

Still..I don't use either word. My siblings and I do call each other "half-breed".. but heaven help the outsider who uses the word against us. :)

[La Lioness Priyanka]

36. in group honorifics

you take a words used against you....and reclaim it. it gives you power over the words as opposed to having the word have power over you...

i am queer!

[CJCRANE]

38. On a side note...

derogatory words in English often seem to have a hard "g" or "k" sound in them (if you think of various swear words and racist slurs, it's quite common). It seems that these kind of sounds (in English) can have an offensive effect on people.

So it's prob best to avoid these kind of words in polite society or in any situation where the other guy is bigger than you.

[Aidoneus]

45. "nigga" has a different meaning

basically, it's stealing it back from those who mean it the other way.

[trumad]

47. Here's how the debate came about...

The debate I’m having with this guy started on a football forum and it’s about a Miami Dolphin (Junior Seau) using the term “Faggot” the other night in a banquet… The dude is using the argument that if Gay’s can call each other “Faggot” then it should be OK for non-Gays to use the word. Then he mentioned that Blacks use the word Nigger so he too should be able to use it in a public way.

I agree if he walked up to a group of Blacks and called them Nigger he’d be hurtin pretty bad. I kind of stumped the dude when I asked him if it would be OK if his kids used those words??? He has had a difficult time answering me on that one… If he says no it’s not OK then I’ll ask him why…I’d like to hear his answer for that…. If he says it is OK then as far as I am concerned the debate is over cause in my mind he’s a scumbag homophobic racist….

[Aidoneus]

52. I generally avoid them altogether

I have much better things to pick a fight with, that carry a better sting to them without the baggage I don't define on my own.

When Dave Chappelle spits it off 40-50 times every Tuesday, of course he's not racist towards black people in the same way Strom Thurmond (BIH) would be. I can't explain it more than that and don't care to..

[Terran]

69. Thank you!

I was wondering if anyone was going to make that distinction. This whole subject is off-kilter, for the reason that "nigga" is NOT THE SAME WORD as "n*gg*r". I do not believe that you will hear very often at all an African-American refer to another African-American as a "n*gg*r". So, the use of such is never okay. "Nigga" is different, and it can be both good and bad, but it does come anywhere near the insult implied by "n*gg*r".

And by the way trumad, gay men do NOT call each other "faggot." That, for me, is the gay equivalent of the N-word. We might call each all kinds of derogatory names that are based around our sexual orientation, but that ain't one of them, trust me on this.

Dirk

[mike1963]

48. I don't have a better answer than what have already been posted but I'm

recalling a line from a book whose title I can't remember (I'm usually pretty good but this one is eluding me)...I'm -thinking- it was something by Heinlein, it's something like "when prostitutes fight, they always call each other whores..."

Ring a bell with anybody?

sheesh, what's happening to my memory?
:D

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

49. Why is it OK for me to say something bad about my mom but not for you?

Time...space...matter

[DrWeird]

50. Saying "nigger" means you're a racist.

Although it depends on the context, like talking about the word itself like in this thread, or if a black person says it, as they're obviously not going to be racist towards their own race.

I mean really, it's not that hard to figure out.

[noonwitch]

53. It's not-I had a big argument with a coworker about this

She and I are both white. She said "if they call each other that, why can't we call them that". I told her:

1. They don't call each other that. Rap songs and street talk don't represent african americans anymore than head-banging skinheads represent white americans.
2. Even if it is okay for black people to call each other that word, that same word takes on a whole different meaning when it is said by a white person to a black person. Duh!
3. I advised her to ask a black coworker what he or she thinks. LOL.

I pity the clients on her caseload, who are at least 80% black.

She further referred to an administrator as a "black Tammy Faye" and an "NB". I told her the first was funny(it was a clothes, makeup and hair reference), the second racist.

I reported the entire conversation to supervision.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

57. It's payback

After so many years of putting up with whites ripping off black culture and making money off it, blacks have taken a little piece of white "culture" and incorporated it into their own. Black culture is always the trendsetter so whites try once again to rip it off. But this time it's like the explosive pack on bank money: steal it and it blows up in your face. Ha ha!

[okieinpain]

59. african-american here, and I've often wondered about that issue

myself. hell I know black people that go around calling white people the n word (playing with them). me myself I don't understand.

[hippiegranny]

60. basically, to reclaim a word that was used against them.

but after reading the responses to this so far, what i want to know is why so many non-minority people even give a shit what people within that community say, and why they want to take it out of that context to use it too.

in other words, why does a non-gay person want to use the word "queer" just because we do? do they feel like they're getting away with their bigotry on the sly?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

70. When I (whitey) am in a subway car and it's being bandied about

loudly for public consumption, I find it a little rude. But this has been going on for like 20 years so I suppose I should be used to it by now.

[sangh0]

72. When you (whitey) find "nigger" rude

is when "nigger" is doing it's job.

For many years, black people had to sit quietly and listen to the rudeness. Now you (whitey) has to sit quietly and listen to the rudeness.

[hiphopnation]

73. Ziiiiiiiiiing!!!

Thank you!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

74. But that wasn't me EVER saying that

you see, and it bothers others who are black.
Like I said way up top, it's "kids" doing it.

[hiphopnation]

What does that mean, "kids"?

Is Jay-Z a kid? Scarface? Slick Rick? They all use the word, and I'm pretty sure society considers them adults?

If blacks have a serious problem with the word as its used in hiphop (which is where all youngsters, not just black ones, get the word from) then, yes, it needs to be addressed at some level.

But even P. Diddy, a revered member of the business community, uses, or used the word, in some of his previous raps. Should a word be censured just because it "bothers" people? Seems like no to me.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

78. As sangh0 notes, it is indeed intended to "bother" people

which is fairly obvious in the context I cited.
And of course it can't be censored, it's just a matter of manners.

[sangh0]

79. No, it's not a matter of manners

Just as it wasn't a matter of manners when white people called blacks "niggers"

[hiphopnation]

76. What does that mean, "kids"?

Is Jay-Z a kid? Scarface? Slick Rick? They all use the word, and I'm pretty sure society considers them adults?

If blacks have a serious problem with the word as its used in hiphop (which is where all youngsters, not just black ones, get the word from) then, yes, it needs to be addressed at some level.

But even P. Diddy, a revered member of the business community, uses, or used the word, in some of his previous raps. Should a word be censured just because it "bothers" people? Seems like no to me.

[sangh0]

77. Let me guess

You never owned any slaves, and some of your best friends are black.

In other words, (and I usually type "IOW" but for you, I'll spell it out) THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU!!!

Black people don't care what words YOU use.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

80. Correction:

"some" black people.

[sangh0]

82. huh???

I was responding to you comment that "But that wasn't me EVER saying that...". I wasn't commenting on the "kids" part.

IOW, you don't expect those blacks to ask you if you've ever used the word before they do, do you? If not, then you should not believe that their reasons for using that term have anything to do with you.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

86. understood

it's pretty well ingrained at this point in time, I suppose I'll lighten up about the whole thing, but it still does hurt a lot of people to hear it.

[sangh0]

92. understood

as someone who is white and is often around people (of various races) who use the term (for various reasons) I have the additional burden of having to think not only about who I'm talking to, but also why and how they use the term "nigger". I often find myself uncomfortable at the words ubiquity.

However, I realize that this discomfort is MY problem, not theirs.

[CatWoman]

96. OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D

[noiretextatique]

98. double OUCH

:spank: :spank:
don't mess with sangha or sangh0 :7

[Eloriel]

61. Certain words are tools of oppression --

esp. when used by the dominant culture against the oppressed culture(s)-- that is, IN VIRTUALLY ALL CASES when used by the dominant culture.

When used within and among the oppressed groups, their use of the terms tends to take back the power of those words. But it does NOT give permission to the dominant culture to also use those words because they have not lost their oppressive character.

Further, people (esp. oppressed classes) MUST have the right to self-identify. This is one of the other tools the dominant classes use against the oppressed -- namely, WE the almighty ones get to label and define YOU, and you don't have that right. Thus, some folks on the right call for "an end to hyphnated-Americans." This is a tool of racism to prevent those who are discriminated against from defining themselves as they wish. And it also helps to "disappear" racism. After all, if we can't identify people who are different, we certainly can't chalk up unequal treatment as being based on those differences.

[ThomWV]

65. You may use any word you like, any time you like

The point for for you to know what word is right to use when and where. Some people never figure that part out. There are some words that should not be used at all, even though you know them and their meaning. Some are simply to vile for use, but some people don't understand that either.

[LibertyLover]

66. Using the N word

I have never understood it myself. Several years ago one of my collegues, a lovely woman of Cuban parentage married to an African-American naval officer, was telling several of her friends on the law office staff, all of them African-Americans, about her oldest stepson's arrest the previous weekend for shoplifting. She kept using the N word to describe him and his friends who had participated in the activity. I happened to be in an office across the hallway talking with one of the attorneys in the firm about a project we were working on. But we kept hearing Vicky telling this story and finally just stopped and listened in shock and amazement. One of the word processors looked over and saw us with the "gaffed fish" (as she put it) looks on our faces and broke up laughing. She pointed us out to all other folks in her office, who also all got quite a laugh over our reaction to the N word's use. I later asked my collegue about her use of the N word and her response was that she used it because her stepson and all of his friends used it and in this instance because he had been so incredibly stupid to go out and shoplift at Bloomingdales stuff that he could have easily paid for with his allowance she thought the N word was perfectly appropriate.

[LuminousX]

75. One black person to another has no malicious intent

for the most part. It still isn't good, but essentially if I'm with a group of Montanan born people and we are making fun of Montana that is one thing. The minute some Texan (or Californian, Oregonian, etc) starts in making fun - it is difficult to know if it is coming from the same spirit of fellowship or from a certain maliciousness.

[Karenina]

99. Language is dynamic

and context is EVERYTHING.

Monolinguist, monocultural folk are at a distinct disadvantage on this one. It's all about the NON-VERBAL communication of the speaker and the point of reference.

My VERY white bread ice dance coach once referred to Jay Hawkins as HIS "screaming nigger," me being the only person of color in the group. The others BLANCHED. I laughed hysterically being privy to his context of "He's MY IDOL who I turn up on the stereo, who allows me to break outta my shit, SCREAM ALONG, RAIL and DANCE in the confines of my living room. I L-O-V-E HIM and ME BE A NIGGER TOO!!! TAKE IT AND STUFFIT IF YOU CAN'T RELATE." The two of us cracked up later at the others' reactions to us both. (We often enjoyed jerking folks' chains in tandem). What was immediately communicated to them was that HE and I had a special relationship and understanding about references. They wondered what what was so special about HIM that he got a pass from me
on that occasion to use the dreaded word in polite, mixed company. It was the possessive pronoun.

My Texas-born red-headed lil bro got himself into an altercation where HE was at fault. I was SO ANNOYED at his complete lack of critical thinking I SCREAMED at him, "NIGGER, WHAS WRONG WITCHOO?" and slapped him upside his jenky haid. He considered himself properly chatised for his transgression. ;-) Context and relationship are KEY in use of language.

When I meet Amis here, all they have to do is say "the Germans" with a particular inflection for me to go OFF on them. We embedded ex-pats can complain to our hearts' content but DON'T DARE come in here from outside and spew shit. Du hast KEINE ERLAUBNIS! TUT MIR LEID.

Same stuff with the word "JEW." It can be subtle but make no mistake, I can smell shit a mile away. It's NOT about the WORD, more about the NON-VERBAL transmission.

There are no hard and fast rules. Check your surroundings and what stands behind your usage. That is all.

I truly believe you can say anything to anyone. Choose your words and the time carefully if you CARE to be properly understood. It's often NOT what you say, but HOW your words are received, THAT is what is important.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

81. Other than making it difficult for White kids to rap along with the beat..

... y'know having to pause in all those places that the word is said... I really don't have a problem with the 'wonders of whys' things are done the way they are.

:grouphug:

[hiphopnation]

85. LMAO!!

A brilliant take on the topic.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

90. Wink! I'm always amazed..

.. at people worrying about why this and why that on subjects that really don't have ANY relevance... other than singing along with rap songs, what does anyone have a 'need' to use that word?

Oh well, let'm lose sleep over it, I sure don't!

A funny aside... from a very very very bad movie (House of 1000 Corpses), these four college kids wind up in a rural service station and curio shop... old man behind the counter with a queeny-southern-twang is asked 'Who are these rifles for?' He retorts, 'those are for the N*rs' Of course the kids react like 'stupid redneck racist' and the audience is led along believing the same thing.

Last scene after everyone is dead or dying ... four young black kids (male & female) are walking towards and into the store.. so you're going OH NO... this is going to be a massacre..

and the queeny-southern-twang guy shouts 'My N'as! Those rifles you ordered are here for you!' TOO funny.

[hiphopnation]

91. OH my,

that's hilarious.

I agree that some levity on the topic is needed.

[hiphopnation]

93. For more on this

there is also the truley hilarious skit that was reoccuring on MadTV where it would be a black talk-show and the one token white guy was always on.

He would always end up saying just the most horrificly unPC things and the host and the guests were usually militant black activists. He would end up using the word "Say, can I call you guys my N*****s?" And they would stop talking and just stare at him. Just hilarious.

[carolinayellowdog]

84. Faggot vs. queer

I've never heard anyone, gay or straight, use "faggot" except as an expression of hostility. So would dispute your interlocutor's premise on that; being called that is insulting regardless of the orientation of the person using it. "Queer" OTOH is widely accepted among glbt people and has been for years.

[noiretextatique]

87. i've heard gay men call each other faggot

in ways that weren't hostile.

[Kinkistyle]

97. Because African-Americans should own that word.

(meant to reply to original post)

It was used as a tool of hate in the past, and in a sort of ironic twist, the African-American community has turned it around and now uses it as a symbol of camaraderie. Its almost a satirical flip-off to the racists: "Look, it doesn't hurt us anymore". So its almost said in humor. Yes, ideally it shouldn't be used by anyone anymore, but it is - in an act of defiance.

But that being said, it still doesn't lose its previous contemptous racist meaning. The fact that racists still use it to defame blacks is proof of that. Thats why its not ok to use it if you are not black. When blacks use it, its pretty much a given that they aren't actually being racist, but the same is not true for non-blacks. Its that uncertainty that still makes it unacceptable.

[noiretextatique]

88. personally, i like richard pryor's take on the "n" word

he said he stopped using it when he went to africa, because there weren't any other there. he vowed the never uses that word over here either.
i agree with richard.
tell your friend to take his ass down to his local black community, stand on a corner and scream the "n" word at the tops of his lungs, as is his right. i think he will learn why HE can't use the word in that context. i'm sure he can find some white folks to use it with though.

[Senior citizen]

89. Cyrano explained it in the nose speech.

You can say things about yourself that you would allow none other to say.

"Call that a nose? 'Tis a rock, a crag...."

[leftofthedial]

94. it's not

it is intentionally disrespectful

but in a post-modern, self-referential context, "Bad" is sometimes "Good."

[Solon]

95. Never heard it used by black people...

I worked and lived in places that are anywhere from 80 to 90 percent black. For the record I'm a Mick :D, and they never used it among themselves or towards me, neither have they ever called me a Mick. Though I will say that I have a neighbor who calls himself a "Damned Pollack." is that anymore appropriate?

Whether it is polite or not is up to the context and who is using I would guess. Though I would imagine it is offensive to those of older generations who had to face open discrimination day in and day out.

[Freddie Stubbs]

100. Not all African Americans think that it is ok to use the word at all

I certainly don't that it is.

[Dob Bole]

101. People co-opt derogatory terms as a means of fighting back

You hear people use the N-word because people used it against them for so long- using it themselves takes the power of the word away. You will also see some young evangelicals do this when they call themselves "Jesus Freaks"- a term that older people once used against them.

A couple of years ago I went to Costa Rica for a habitat build. Some of the people in the town started calling us Gringos. (damn yankees, basically) They didn't know that I knew what they were saying, so I tied my beach towel around my back and ran around yelling "Yo Soy SuperGringo!!!" (I am SuperDamnYankee) It worked. They Stopped.