Regarding Ronald Reagan and Democratic Underground.

[Skinner]

Since Ronald Reagan's death on Saturday, it's been an interesting and somewhat divisive couple of days on the Democratic Underground message board. Fortunately, things seem to have calmed down somewhat since Saturday night, but I fully expect us to be dealing with various related issues for the days to come. I hope that you will all remember this: We've been through much worse. This, too, will pass.

I'm sure I don't need to convince any of you that Ronald Reagan was bad for this country, so I won't bother trying to list his mistakes. Others here have already done so. But I think it is worth noting that Ronald Reagan's death has not really changed anything. The man has suffered with Alzheimer's disease for a decade, and has therefore had negligible influence on our politics and public policy. His death puts an end to the suffering of himself and his family, but it will have zero effect on the direction our country is heading, and it doesn't change the fact that the extreme right-wing is still in control of all three branches of our federal government. I see little cause for celebration.

I find it mildly disappointing, but unsurprising, that Reagan's death has been the source of so much consternation on Democratic Underground. This is a message board, after all, and we'll take whatever excuse is available in order to have a flame war. The more things change, the more DU stays the same. :)

But I do hope that people will keep in mind that we are all still on the same side here. Obviously, we have many wildly differing opinions about what is appropriate behavior when a public figure dies. Some see nothing wrong with heaping scorn upon that person while the body is still warm, while others consider such behavior to be extremely inappropriate, and have felt personally embarrassed by some of the comments here. I am no fan of Ronald Reagan, but my personal feelings tend more toward the latter, as I don't really feel any need for the emotional release, nor do I see what practical purpose such behavior could possibly serve.

If you are uncomfortable with some of the things that have been posted here recently (and rightly so), I would remind you that this is not the first time a polarizing political figure has passed away, and this appears to be fairly typical behavior for a political message board. Whichever side of this issue you're on, please try not to get offended if someone disagrees with you. This is just a message board, and life's too short to get too worked up about it. A few people have already left because of various comments on all sides, but that seems like an overreaction to me. What's that old saying about what to do if you don't like the weather in Seattle? "Wait five minutes, and it'll change." DU is pretty much the same way.

Some folks on right-wing hate radio have already picked up some of the more colorful comments from DU, and broadcast them as representative of Democrats in general. Apparently they think that there is some partisan advantage in doing so, and maybe there is. But I think most of the folks listening to Rush have already made up their minds, and are solidly on one side or the other already. I'm not going to hold my tongue because Rush Limbaugh might disapprove, nor do I think you should. After all, he's going to disapprove of anything we do -- that's the whole point. I suppose there may be some reason to be concerned that undecided voters might get turned off by some of the more extreme comments, about a man they may have voted for back in the '80s. But I believe most people are smart enough to recognize that no single comment can be fairly pinned on anyone other than the person who says it. If some conservative idiot with a microphone wants to try to score political points by cherry-picking comments from Democratic Underground, I say let him. It only goes to show that they see us as a threat. When it comes to their ilk, I'd much rather be hated than ignored. The free publicity isn't bad, either.

If you disagree with something someone posts, tell them why, but do so with a little respect. If someone thinks Reagan is a jerk and says so, that doesn't make them the enemy. Similarly, if someone thinks it's uncool to speak ill of the dead, and says so, that doesn't make them the enemy either. If you get sick of some of the excesses of this place, take a break. It'll make you feel much better. But remember that we're all on the same side, and remember that this is all totally normal.

See you on the message board.

Skinner
DU Admin

[AspenRose]

1. Yay Skinner!

:yourock:

[imax2268]

67. Well said...

Well said Skinner...well said...

[Must_B_Free]

127. well said Deserted Rose

[Seabiscuit]

136. DITTO!

Well put, Skinner!!!

I agree completely. Let's lighten up on each other here - life's too short to take things too seriously, and to allow other posters to get under your skin just because everyone's got their own point of view. We all agree on enough principles to show respect towards each other when opinions vary somewhat on individual issues.

I could care less about Reagan's death - it's personally insignificant to me. I never liked the man, disapproved of the policies of his Governorship and Presidency, but most of it was simply laughably stupid to me all along, and I always knew "this too shall pass" while he was still in power.

I'm just glad that it happened in June rather than October, given the level of constant right-wing gushing over the man in the right-wing-controlled media (which is almost all of the media). Imagine if we had to endure a media blackout on news of Bush's countless scandals, and endure this kind of Reagan-gushing in October on the eve of the election??? The fence-sitters in America would surely vote Republican in November if that happened, as they'd see/hear nothing but gushing sentiment for some obscure and insignificant Republican politician who had just passed away, and who was being presented to them night and day as the greatest man since Jeezus, Moses and Dubya to ever walk the planet.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. Oh why do you always have to be so fucking big and well reasoned?

What a fairness junkie! :D

[Skinner]

16. That's why you pay me the big bucks.

:D

[Burma Jones]

59. BIG Bucks?????

You aren't going to go Republican on us, are you?

Kidding aside - you rule.

[KoKo]

78. Hey...do you think these guys could do this FREE? He's acknowledging

those of us who have "subscriptions." :evilgrin:

Why should the folks who run DU live in Poverty so that we can "express our opinions" for a few bucks now and then?

Huh? We all gotta pay our rent and work towards have a little "bucks for our future."

[Burma Jones]

84. I'm joking, the guys more than earn every penny they get

I pay monthly, about what I pay for my newspaper subscriptions. More than I give to PBS and Public Radio.

Given the atmosphere since Uncle Ronnie died, I suppose a little humor was ill advised.

[dryan]

133. Because two wrongs don't make a right.

[demnan]

3. Yes, Daddy. Thank you

:-)

[ewagner]

4. As I lurked through the flames

I only thought that we are very diverse and one opinion is just as good as another.

No, none of the comments made me think less of DU or any DUers.

The whole Reagan thing is just pretty much business as usual for us...and I wouldn't change it for anything.

Thanks for the thoughts Skinner.

[VolcanoJen]

5. Hey, as bad as it is, it's *still* not as bad as the Democratic Primaries!

We're even more entertaining when we're eating our own. :P

Thanks for your encouraging words, as always, Skinner!!

[Skinner]

17. Hopefully, it'll never be that bad again.

Or at least... I hope it doesn't get that bad until the next presidential primary.

[frankly_fedup2]

42. take everything down you need to Skinner . . .

to keep DU up and running. Do NOT let those right-winged idiots shut down this site.

Maybe we, as a group, should visit Free Republic's Site. Wonder if they can carry a heavy load?

[Sapphocrat]

53. That's a thread I'd like to see you start someday soon, Skinner...

Your vision of DU in 2008 -- both your ideal wish(es), and your educated guess/psychic predictions. Just for kicks, mind you -- although you know anything you say now will be quoted mercilessly four years hence. :D

Anyway, thanks for the o.p. here -- it needed to be said. I was really caught off-guard by the intensity of the Reagan issue. I'll howl 'til the day I die about the damage he did while in office, but I have experienced virtually no reaction to his death one way or the other. I guess it's been a trigger for a lot of people -- it's brought up a lot of old anger -- but it still surprises me. I've been angry with the ex-president for over 30 years -- but I have no vested interest in the old man who just died, and hasn't had any (direct) effect on my life in two decades.

All that pisses me off about this are the constant "special reports" cutting to live footage of the funeral. Too bad the networks don't do the same thing every time a soldier is buried.

P.S. Re mentions of DU on the airwaves: It's also too bad the media overlooks the freeper posts similar to the ones you linked. I'd like to see the public reaction to FR posts celebrating Rachel Corrie's death as more "cleansing of the gene pool."

[never cry wolf]

55. But the next presidential primary

Will be to choose a repug to challenge President Kerry, so we're cool until 2012!

Nice note, Skinner. I don't see why everyone is going all whacko either. Raygun's death has had no effect on my life, I am extremely indifferent over it except as to it may affect the election.

[polmaven]

73. Are you kidding????

Saint Ron's passing has affected my life even more than gay marriage did!!!! Alas!!!! Alack!!!!....Oh, wait....The affect of either is not one iota....Never mind!

On edit. One or both of the above evidently affected my grammar skills.

[wellstone_democrat]

62. yep, that was the only time I've really been scared

on DU. Damn, those primary months....

[DEMVET-USMC]

138. Stick with DU and have some courage, our country needs us now !

I had mixed feelings, as I sometimes have a problem with debasing people who have died recently. From reading the Quotes and actions taken and made by Reagan at < www.flyingsnail.com > I came down hard on the side of good riddance to bad rubbish as to Reagan`s death. I saw a very many good Marines and soldiers die and of necessity being stacked up and flown off unceremoniously from the different battlefields and these men deserved far more,everyone of them, sorrow and respect than that cruel ,callous former President. I`ll save my tears for the current servicemen and women who die and or maimed serving their country. ...Oscar

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

6. I said it before and I will say it again...

I just don't care. It really does not affect or effect me.

Reagan did little or nothing that positively affected my life when he was sentient, the same can be said for the last ten years, and his death proves that he is just like us: yet another meat puppet, who is or will take the dirt nap.

I am supposed to get worked up about this? Sorry. I am just a bit busy right now, struggling to survive.

I have more important things on my plate than the natural outcome of the life of Reagan, and I would counsel that everyone else here does too. Like the election.

[Generator]

7. Thanks for DU

I feel like this is the ONLY place I can even go to where there is an alternative view besides the hero worship that's being shoved down our throats by all media.

I'm thankful for that, and all the views we get to see here.

[Blue_Tires]

8. ttt--good points

Admin > all of the rest of us...

[PROGRESSIVE1]

9. Thanks Skinner.

I believe that this is why we all belong here. We want an alternative to the censored "news" we see on the TEE-VEE, particularly on Cable.

[rbnyc]

10. Thanks.

It doesn't bother me if someone decides to post about Reagan in a way that they feel "respects the dead" and it certainly doesn't bother me if someone decides to post a reminder of Reagan's terrible contributions to society, even with venom. What bothers me is people telling each other what to do, what to feel, what to say and how to say it.

[JCMach1]

11. Let them keep quoting DU.... there is no such thing as bad

publicity!

BESIDES

let the media keep playing speeches by the gipper>>>

it will show what an insane, drug addled, monkey in a suit the current occupant of the WH is...

the only positive thing I will say for Reagan... HE had STYLE...

[Endangered Specie]

54. another +: he had a decent sense of humour... unlike shrub or any other

contempary right wing figure.

It at least made him bareable

[kaitykaity]

12. Good show.

"Take what you want and leave the rest."

Oh, by the way, not to be greedy or anything, but does this
mean "Hide Thread" is coming back???

[Skinner]

18. It'll come back eventually.

Maybe later this week.

Right now, we're getting slammed with a massive spike in traffic -- one of our biggest ever. So I don't think we'll get the hide thread function back today, unfortunately.

[kaitykaity]

22. I was kidding, Skinner.

Flicking you a little shit.
Thanks, though.

:evilgrin:

[libhill]

36. Probably

right wing fruit loops looking for dirt -

[K-W]

13. I think you underestimate the influence of right wing media on the public,

but other than that a very good post.

[progressivebydesign]

122. ..and overestimate the intelligence of many Americans.

But.. I agree, other than that. Great post!

[mot78]

14. Thanks SKinner

BTW, you should keep this thread pinned, especially to remind any Boortz-led lurker to check on the FR-Wellstone threads.

[Tyler Durden]

15. I wish he wasn't one of my "hot buttons", but he is.

I turned 28 years old in the US Navy in 1980, and after 8 years of Ronald Reagan, I thought we might be above that sort of thing in the future. Bush I and II have proved me terribly wrong.

As I can't say anything nice, I will try to say nothing at all; folks will have no concept how hard that will be for me.

[indepat]

19. The unjust and sometimes tastless denunciation of the Gipper on this

board will likely not hold a candle to the overly zealous deification of the Gipper and other outlandish claims by conservatives in the coming months. Notwithstanding, a mountain of horrendous ideology, policies, and actions is available for us to attack without stooping to denigrate ourselves in Limbaugh-styled personal attacks.

[UTUSN]

20. Can This Be Pinned to the Top, Please? n/t

[Skinner]

29. Done.

(Sometimes I like to let announcements "float" a little bit, because I think some people have pinned-thread blindness.)

[Randers]

21. That's pretty much how I see it

For those that are upset that some are remembering Reagan's negative aspects - seems to me DU is a place where people come so they don't have to hear all the pro-Republican all time and now pro-Reagan all the time CNN, etc. viewpoint....

And while I think celebrating is over the top, the death of one such as Reagan is as good of a time to remember the negative effects as it is the positives.

[freetobegay]

23. With all the conservatives out there

And living in a conservative stronghold (S.W. Florida) I thank God every day that I have Democratic underground to go to.

[stevedeshazer]

24. That was much needed

Thanks.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

25. Agreed. Well put, my man!

:toast:

[hippiegranny]

26. thanks for the perspective check, skinner

i missed the weekend, but what i have seen so far this morning is making me a tad uncomfortable. i am no ronnie fan, <tho i was clueless enough back in the 80's to have voted for him,> but he's gone now (officially) and to talk about pissing on graves is in pretty poor taste, no matter who bought the farm. and hey, if he had any choice at all in the decision about when to pass, i thank him for doing it now rather than four months from now.

[polmaven]

74. Or even a month and a half from now

I was convinced he would die on July 24th, Just in time for the Democratic Convention.

[rasputin1952]

27. Thanks Skinner...

and now back to the task at hand...getting bush out of OUR WH...:)

[Blue-Jay]

28. Skinner - You should pin this one to the top.

Reagan: Rotten president.

Joy in another's suffering & death: reprehensible and ghoulish.

[Blue-Jay]

40. ugh. Never mind.

blah

[mhr]

30. Well Said Skinner!

For those that got offended by the Reagan bashing remember that he was a public figure. The rules for public figures are much different than for the anonymous masses.

That said, the caution and excessive civility shown by some is an affront to others.

Others expect their leaders to embody public and personal virtues to a fault such that any sleight is worthy of criticism. I fall in this camp and can find fault with everyone, republicans and democrats alike.

As Skinner notes, the diversity of opinion at DU is as broad as the Pacific. It would not be possible for everyone to agree. Such is life.

[ScreamingMeemie]

31. Thanks Skinner. Although I am really missing the hide thread function

you know. ;) I amazed myself that something as non political as this should be is taking up so much of our time.

[frankly_fedup2]

39. Hey MrsGrumpy . . .

I've never even used the function so no loss to me. Tell me how this function works if you have a little extra time for an almost newbie.

Thanks if you can

[ScreamingMeemie]

46. Check yourPM!

And welcome to DU!!! :hi:

[Maeve]

32. Who do you think you are, Skinner????

Trying to get people to act reasonably and with a bit of respect for other folks...what are you, some kinda LIBERAL?!?!?!
B-)
Nice work y'all have been doing. Thanks for putting up with us.

[tandot]

33. Thanks, Skinner

I am so glad that I've found DU and already recommended DU to my friends.

People might sometimes not agree with what I say, and I might not agree with some of the opinions of some of my fellow DUers...but at least we have the freedom to discuss and debate.

(ed. for spelling)

[Cleita]

34. I have plenty to say about Reagan, once he is buried.

I lived through his leadership as Governor of California and then President of the United States. His legacy shouldn't be buried with him, but should be very carefully examined and dissected. But until then I have chosen to let the family have their period of mourning without any rotten tomatoes being lobbed by me. IMHO.

[Philostopher]

109. Amen, Cleita!

That's my tack, too. I'm old enough to remember those years, and both my family and I, personally, took some hard knocks due to some of the things that happened for which he is either indirectly or directly responsible. That being said, he was a sick old man for a long time, and I respect some of the members of his family, however I felt about him. To watch someone die for ten years is an awful thing no matter what your political affiliation may be, and I do feel bad for them. Wherever the old empty suit is for eternity, it's surely a great relief for them to finally have it over.

Thanks, Skinner -- I've resisted both the 'grave pissing' and 'nannying' because I think you're right. The so-called mainstream media will have a whole lot more effect on all this than more polarized political messages boards, and no matter how much we wave our fists and proclaim the truth, we can't outshout the deification this week. Best to wait until the Cult Of St. Ron has its ceremony and then hit the streets.

[frankly_fedup2]

35. Per Randi Rhodes today on her radio show . . .

the right are telling people to go to the white house home page and read the memorial.

Of course, if you would like to leave a couple of bucks to help the Republicans continue to rule, they will take it.

They accuse us of tastelessness. Puhlease.

Well said Skinner. I agree. Great publicity for the board.

Also, great way to keep the site from going down. Oh how they try, they always try . . . those stupid freepers.

[Skinner]

43. We're doing what we can.

Elad programmed a cool little feature that allows us to progressively shut off features. If we get more traffic, there are still more features we can shut off. I think we're going to make it through this without a significant loss of performance. :crossesfingers:

Even still, a couple weeks ago we began discussions with our web host regarding another hardware upgrade. We're planning to significantly improve our servers before the Convention in July.

[wryter2000]

47. Thanks, Skinner

Elad programmed a cool little feature that allows us to progressively shut off features. If we get more traffic, there are still more features we can shut off. I think we're going to make it through this without a significant loss of performance. :crossesfingers:

That's the important thing...that we keep DU up and running. I'm convinced that the Rushs et. al are scared spitless of what we represent.

[klook]

114. Denial of Service attacks?

If interlopers are trying DOS attacks, isn't that illegal? Or are they not to blame for the spike in activity?

[Skinner]

119. It's not a DOS attack.

It's a normal spike in traffic that comes whenever there is a big news story, or whenever DU gets mentioned in the media.

[Misunderestimator]

37. Well said, Skinner. You must be ancient... yet your pic looks so young.

Where did you get all that wisdom? :)

[ibegurpard]

38. You know what really makes me laugh?

All the people on both sides who are seeing this as vindication for their point of view. Just goes to show that people see what they want to see.

[wndycty]

41. Thanks Skinner. . .

. . .I appreciate your words.

[qanda]

44. May I add to your wonderful comments

That the Lounge is a wonderful place to visit when the politics get to be just a little too much. DU is such a wonderfully diverse place that although one subject may rule the day, it certainly does not rule the entire forum.

[2Design]

45. Thanks this has been very educational.....I have enjoyed seeing

the extreme reactions and the niceness and the not so nice. Especially when people put up threads to other articles about what Reagan really did......

DU is great place for the alternative news that is unfiltered but self regulated....

And I notice members have increased by about 250 in the last couple of days..... so we have lots of others here too...

This has been much better than any History class I have taken. And I have learned so much from people that I might never have hung out with before.... All sorts of people on these boards....

We could turn this into an Irish Wake, wasn't Ronnie Irish

:party: :toast::bounce:

And now onto the Wake
:beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:
:crazy:
This is the way it was done in my family.....Drunk until dawn....

[skippysmom]

48. Thanks Skinner

For this and all that you do. I visited DU the last couple of days for some healthy perspective on Reagan -- perspective sorely lacking in most of the non-stop news coverage. I mostly lurked and read a lot of interesting debate, learned a few things, got some laughs, and managed to get through what would have been a very boring Sunday.

What was my life like before DU? :)

[Love Bug]

49. I agree with you but I do want to comment on this statement:

But I believe most people are smart enough to recognize that no single comment can be fairly pinned on anyone other than the person who says it.

Unless you are a Minnesota voter in 2002 who decided to change their vote to Norm Coleman because of what Rick Kahn said at the Wellstone memorial. Kahn's statement to the Republicans in attendance to "Help a Dem win the Senate in Paul's memory" created such a hue and cry among Republicans and their media lap dogs that it is generally agreed that it swayed enough votes away from Mondale (Wellstone's replacement) to give Coleman the seat and the Republicans the majority in the Senate.

Yes, most people are smart enough to recognize that an individual's statements are their own, but unfortunately, just enough people in Minnesota were stupid enough not to get that in 2002.

Yes, I'm all for freedom of speech but we do have to remember that there are consequences for our actions--and the opposition is not ashamed to exploit that to their own ends. Why give them the ammunition?

[bobbieinok]

120. wasn't it RW TV spin for people who didn't see the memorial??????????

I remember they went on and on about the 'immorality' of turning a memorial service into a political rally.

Wonder what they'll say about the use of the Reagan memorials/eulogies??

[jus_the_facts]

50. Yep...it is indeed...all relative...the paradoxes will continue..

....regardless...such is life! :nopity:

[Renew Deal]

51. Thanks Skinner

I was thinking about emailing you, but you took care of it for me. I wish you were here on Saturday night at around 4:10 pm.

[Endangered Specie]

52. I think everyone needs to take a break from the GD forums...

and come on down to the lounge for some pseudo-sex threads, pointless conversations, so-bad-their-funny copycat threads and other fun stuff ;) .

[Lestat]

56. Very well said.

Thanks Skinner! :hi:

[Tellurian]

57. Thanks, skinner..

well said! And thanks for bearing with everyone's point of view. I doubt there is another place as democratic as this one that would allow the pros and cons of anything to be discussed at length without threat of expulsion if the consensus didn't prevail.

Free Republic comes to mind-

Thanks for all you do!

[UrbScotty]

58. Thank goodness for Skinner!

Thank you!

[Renew Deal]

116. Long live Skinner!!!

;)

[indigobusiness]

60. Good point...but to some, Reagan was a true villain...

And look at the fun we have with villains we all agree on...such as Saddams sons? I'm not making a comparison in particular, but in general.

I've been a little shocked at my own willingness to play along with the Reagan bashing, I am usually very respectful of the dead...and the truly odd thing is how much more shocked I was when EVERYBODY had a field day with Ouday and Qusay.

I think we are on a slippery moral slope, and I wonder to what depths we will slide.

[Skittles]

61. thanks Skinner

I simply resent people telling me how I should feel. I don't celebrate anyone's death but I could not shed a tear for this one. I REMEMBER.

[noiretextatique]

68. likewise...not a single tear

no respect in death that he didn't deserve in life either. and me an dmy god are unanimous in the morality of this position. it perplexes me that some think not speaking truthfully about someone who died is some elevated moral position. it just seems like silence to me :shrug:

[buddhamama]

137. you have stated...

my feelings and position exactly, noiretblu.
(no dog to back me up though. if needed, will ya share? )

silence seems like consent to me.

[JohnLocke]

63. Thank you, Skinner.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Rowdyboy]

64. Much appreciated....

You do a kickass job!

[anarchy1999]

65. Thank you Skinner, and well said.

n/t

Where would we all be without DU these last couple of years. How much richer are we for it? And where whould we all be without it. This trying time shall to also pass, as have all the others.

[laylah]

66. Thanks

Skinner...for awhile there I was thinking I had stumbled upon another forum...one that I didn't care to be a part of :thumbsup:

Jenn

[Just Me]

69. You're great, Skinner! And, I still Love DU!!!

:grouphug:

:kick:

[surfermaw]

70. Been to Myrtle with my grandson Watched Cartoon for 3 days

Really missed most of the Reagan thing until today, don't like the man for his economic policies, he caused the recession that fell on GHWB...no doubt about it, just like Harding and Coolidge caused the Great depression that fell on Hoover...Yes they did

I missed the Reagan Hype, but saw the Blue Angles, they are terrific:)

[Westegg]

71. Thank you! I feel better having read your words. (n/t)

[pinto]

72. I am one who "took a break"...turned out I only needed a day; my reactions

were about my relationships with degenerative disease and death and all that stuff, not DU...when I came back the political assessments of Ronnie were just that...poltical assessments with which I agree.
Thanks, Skinner.

[peacefreak]

75. I want to add my thanks too.

You speak with great wisdom. We ARE all in this together. Peace.

[CHIMO]

76. Good Words

And very true.

If I may add:
message not the messenger and
deeds not the person.

[KoKo]

77. Thanks Skinner...I would rather be "hated than ignored," also. Your Quote

It only goes to show that they see us as a threat. When it comes to their ilk, I'd much rather be hated than ignored. The free publicity isn't bad, either.

:-)'ies to you!

[FlaGranny]

108. Your Skinner quote of

"better hated than ignored" can be turned around, "better to ignore the hated than to pay him much attention." I only posted in two or three of the Reagan threads and I only watched TV for a few moments yesterday when they were taking Reagan's body from the funeral home. I've mostly ignored the whole thing. I did find myself repulsed by some comments here and felt my time was better spent on enjoying life. Hatred is not good for one's health.

I hope things settle down.

[Selwynn]

113. Well said.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

79. Thank you, Skinner. Well put.

[gvi]

80. Democrats supported Reagan as well

1. When Reagan began his political career he was a democrat.
2. When he was elected in 1980 he carried 44 states and a vast majority of the popular vote.
3. When he was re-elected in 1984 he carried 49 states only surrenduring Mondale's home state of Minnesota.


The man was elected by Democrats as well as Republicans unless anyone here thinks the majority of us Americans are conservative. If you did not agree with everything he did, so be it. There is no need for such hate filled words. The same goes for Dubya. I just want to see him out of office, not dead. I'm a better person than those who wish harm to others.

Gvi

[SideshowScott]

81. Very Good Point Skinner..( Yes another ass kissing post )

I have been steering clear of the Reagan threads beacuse even though I hated the job Reagan did I was not happy with the bitterness and uglyness of some of the things said about his Death..I can UNDERSTAND it..But its just not the way i like seeing people conduct themselves.
I can thank Ron Reagan for one thing: He made me a die hard democrat for life. Thank You Ron, rest in peace gipper. If there is an afterlife I hope you find peace and understanding of the error of the things you did as leader of the free world.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[playahata1]

86. What is THAT supposed to mean?

"...a bunch of barbarians like yourselves..."

[Djinn]

93. it means

I'm a right wing automaton

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

88. Semi civility's over...

bite us! :D

[VOX]

83. "We're all on the same side" -- YES!!!

What was/is most disturbing about the last couple of days is the zeal with which DUers can go after one another over a common experience (albeit one viewed through differing apertures). This seemed over and above the "my candidate is better than your candidate" exchanges.

Hopefully, there are no lingering bad feelings among DUers, and we can get back to the business of supporting the Democratic candidate, and sticking it to the right wing, who have more than earned our emnity.

As always, thanks, Skinner, for **gently** turning the garden hose on the cat fight!

Cheers -- :toast:

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

85. Here, here!

[Beausoir]

87. Damn...that was good for me. n/t

[Maat]

97. Thanks, Skinner.

DU has been a great refuge for me as I traversed through lawschool. I appreciated your message. I, too, kind of avoided the Reagan threads. I feel for his wife and children, and don't believe in speaking ill of the dead. Debating policy is one thing...

[ngant17]

89. Why I would not waste my urine to piss on Reagan's grave.

Date: June 6, 2005. One year after Reagan’s death.

Comrade Natedawg has been arrested for pissing on Reagan’s grave.

Dept. of Homeland Security Judge: “Comrade Natedawg, you’ve been charged with desecration of our nation’s most sacred shrine, the tomb of the Great Communicator, President Ronald Wilson Reagan. How do you plead?

Comrade Natedawg: “Your Honor, I do not deny that I pissed on Reagan’s
grave. But I did not do it with the primary intention of insulting his memory. I simply noticed that the ground where he is buried is always completely barren, and I thought I could wet it with a little nitrogen and other waste nutrients into the ground, in the form of my urine, and maybe something green would naturally grow there at last.”

Dept. of Homeland Security Judge: “But don’t you know that trees
pollute, Comrade Natedawg? This is in Pres. Reagan’s own words. There is no higher authority. So we can’t have any plants
and flowers either, because we don’t want any possibility of something
like that contaminating his sacred soil.”

Comrade Natedawg: “Well, excuse me, sir. Then I shouldn’t have wasted
my time to piss on his grave, Your Honor. I now see that nothing will ever grow on the ground where Reagan has been buried. Not even a common weed. It was all an excercise in futility, like the story of his life.”

Dept. of Homeland Security Judge: “Then for such an outrage, I pronounce you guilty. You will be tortured and summarily shot and buried in an unmarked mass grave. Long live freedom in America!”

Comrade Natedawg: “Let justice be served. If it was good enough for the peasants and Indians of Central America, it should be good enough for me.”

Comrade Natedawg is hacked with machetes by Homeland Security guards,
and is taken away to a secret graveyard where the bones of many Salvadorans and Nicaraguan patriots had been clandestinely buried many years ago, perhaps during the Iran-Contra scandal. He is finally executed here.

No one notices the beautiful flowers that grows there. The blood of
those patriots have made a difference and Comrade Natedawg can rest in peace next to these bones.

But nothing ever grows by Reagan’s tomb. That is why I would not waste my urine to piss on his grave.

Comrade NateDawg
http://www.geocities.com/ngant17

[psychopomp]

90. People who are surprised

by all of the heat generated obviously did not live through or remember the eighties. Raygun was an *extremely* divisive character all the way back to his work as an attack dog for the McCarthyites and the House Unamerican Activities Commission.

It was just a faint echo of those very heated times.

[gauguin57]

91. the other day ...

there was a story in the news about a bunch of cats found mutilated on top of a building in New York City.

The Freepers' response was: "probably just Hillary recharging her batteries for the Democratic convention." Nice. Real nice.

Kerry shows class in saying nice things about Reagan and postponing campaigning during RWR funeral week, and the Freepers call him a jackass, in capital letters.

And those are minor, compared with what they usually say. But a few people make rude comments upon the death of a man who started this country on the road to its current decline (not to mention choosing George HW Bush for his veep, who became prez, whose son became prez, who continued to destroy this country ...) and all of a sudden WE'RE the MONSTERS. Give me a freaking break, Freepers!!!!!

We need more outlets where we can post some of the horrible things THEY say, so the Dems. aren't the only ones who have rude things to say about the other side.

[hyphenate]

92. I think a modicum of respect

is warranted for Reagan as a public figure. As it's been said a million times already, I will just echo that we shouldn't speak ill of the dead--at least for a small period of time to reflect on what good--and bad--came out of Reagan's presidency. After that period is over, we can go back to reminding the rest of the world--except the brainwashed masses on the far right--what kind of corrupt and seedy figure he truly was. They might think he was a saint, but I think that recognizing what he did, or didn't do, is something only those who have distanced themselves from him and his politics can do. Those still "basking in his light" are already over the edge of reason, so there's really no point to continuing to try and make amends to them. They will learn someday--long after the time for doing so has come and gone.

[ElectroPrincess]

95. Yes, well written Skinner ...

Kudos, you have a gift of persuasive writing Skinner. Let me extend my partial regrets. It's best for those of us who disagree to recess to our corners when we get a little too feisty. However, great fun with spice and fireworks though across the past few days. The little bit of tweaking and contentiousness brought out a number of interesting angles on Reagan that would not have been uncovered if we only sipped tea and ate crumpets. :-)

[Arkana]

94. Bravo, Skinner.

Said it better than anyone I can think of. Bravo.

[Ripley]

96. Well said Skinner....

RIP to all of the soldiers that have died in the last 3 days for a war-based-on-lies.!

[BeFree]

98. Ronald Reagan and DU

If that #@* was in power today, DU would be on his enemy list. You must remember that RR was a self-described enemy of Liberals and Progressives.

Today, thanks to DU, and his death, the truth of RR is being broadcast around the world. It is our solemn duty to see that the RR myth is stopped in it's tracks right here, right now. If we don't stop the myth now, it will come back to haunt us.

Let's DU it. Let's end it, right here. We can DU it!

[crossroads]

99. Thanks for a cool and sane voice of reason...

:thumbsup: :dem:

[Hailtothechimp]

100. Thanks for the reality check.

[Trajan]

101. Thanks Skinner ....

Again reason rises to the top ....

I love DU ....

[barbaraann]

102. You're amazing, Skinner.

I can't help but wonder how you got that way.

[Rex]

103. Some people just have to weather the storm.

The Reagan hoopla is already dying down...I've given my 2 cents. Now back to bashing Dubya and his band of thugs.

[magglepuss]

104. Reagan and DU

I am conservative and open-minded. I fully believe in understanding as many viewpoints as is practicable. If not, I'd not dwell here. Emotions are part and parcel of our being. Negative emotions are our undoing. Voice your opinion, hesitate to voice hate.

[JDPriestly]

105. Skinner, You are so right

The diversity of opinions is quite normal. I remember the day Kennedy was shot. It seemed the whole nation, like me, was crying. In fact, there were many conservatives, especially in the South, who were cheering the assassination. This was shocking to me. Now the tables are turned. The conservatives are crying and the liberals -- well. . . . All I can say is what goes around comes around.

[stickdog]

106. I couldn't agree more, Skinner.

Nice post.

[DemExpat]

107. Ahhhhhhh....the voice of reason, fairness and sanity!

Thanks, Skinner, for being a really great DU boss!

:kick: :kick: :kick:

:thumbsup:

DemEx

[Puglover]

110. It's posts like this

that inspire me to give money to this board. Thanks Skinner.

[LiberalVoice]

111. I'm sure it's been said...

(and I'd really rather not have to look through ALL the posts to be sure)but, I just want to say that there probably isn't a better person to be running this kick ass site then you Skinner.

My compliments to all the Admin's!

Zak

[Selwynn]

112. Halle-fricken-lujah! At least the DU leadership is sane!

Very well said, Skinner. It's comforting to know that the leadership of DU is in capable, balanced and fair minded hands. I'm also happy to know you're personal take on things, leaning towards the latter rather than the former as you say in your post. That too is comforting to me.

[Blue_Roses]

115. I'm so glad you posted this

You have the voice of reason in sometimes "unreasonable" and caotic times--whether it be primaries, elections, this with Reagan (which I totally agree--it will pass) or anything else "big" that passes our way. Thanks. That's one of the reasons I like this board, because of your fairness and logic:)

While Reagan's death didn't really affect me one way or another, the fact that it fell so close to the D-DAY anniversary did. That to me was more important, however, I found it difficult to carry a discussion with others for very long. It was extremely frustrating 'cause everywhere you went--whether it be TV, here, or radio, it was REAGAN, REAGAN, REAGAN. We even went out for pizza to get away from it all and there low and behold on the TV above our table was Chris Matthews talking about none other than REAGAN! So I layed low for a few days and you're right--it does make you feel better:)

This place has become a second home to me, especially in these difficult times and I really appreciate your leadership and patience when handling these difficult issues.

[WLKjr]

117. It's good to have a Admins like this

here at DU.

[Kilroy003]

118. OK, I'll be nice...

Mama's old rule. I'm not saying anything at all.

[damnraddem]

121. I have to admit that I'm getting tired of the media's ...

all-Reagan, all-the-time mode. But NPR did have a good report that noted how the Reagan Doctrine screwed up Nicaragua and Angola, and how it backfired in Afghanistan with the Taliban. And on Saturday, at the June 5 'End the Occupations' demo, I explicitly paraphrased Reagan: "Ronald Reagan, standing in West Berlin, told Gorbachev 'I challenge you to tear down this wall. Today we all tell Sharon 'We challenge you to tear down your wall.' Well, use them when you can.

Otherwise, as I say to my students when I talk about charisma: Many Americans claim that Ronald Reagan had charisma. I guess that if millions say it, it must be true. But I never saw it. To me, he always appeared to be what he was: a second-rate actor playing a role he wasn't fit for.

[Ivote]

123. Thank You!

Skinner ROCKS!

[TexasSissy]

124. Right on!

[swinney]

125. I shall slam them.This is why.

I voted twice for Reagan.

I detest Conservatives of which he was the leader.

He was a Faux Conservative. Increased Spending 80%--Debt 187%-Deficit 110 %. Increased California spending by 112%.

Conservative? Blarney Baloney. Reagan was full of it.

Nice. Yes. Pleasant. Yes. But if one kills your children you do not back him just because he sounds nice.

I let my disgust turn to hatred over the attacks on a better than Reagan man, Bill Clinton.

The Reagan Gang spent $110,000,000 trying to destroy the Clinton presidency.

It is hard to conceive a Lie they did not use on Clinton.

I learned Conservatives are Evil as confirmed by David Brock plus my extensive studies.

Read my next post on Clinton Character. There is a good, honest, compassionate man.

[mopaul]

126. I'd rather be hated than ignored

i'd rather curse the darkness than light a candle to reagan.

[AlFrankenFan]

128. Thanks

I appreciate it :)

[Zookeeper]

129. Thanks, Skinner...

for putting it all into perspective.:toast:

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enraged_Ape]

131. Reagan was FDR compared to the dumbshit in the WH now

But then, that was about the most useless compliment I've ever delivered about anyone. We all look like Superman next to the Chimp.

[Paradise]

132. You've got a way with words, Skinner, dontcha? :) Thanks! nt

[dryan]

134. Something that a lot of Democrats don't want to admit

Reagan won by landslides not once but twice because a lot of Democrats voted for him. I didn't. In 1980 I worked on President Carter's Florida staff. For a week after the election I was numb. The co-chair of the "Democrats for Reagan" committee in Orange County, Florida was President of the Young Democrats for crying out loud. In 1984 when Mondale ran the poor guy was a sacrificial lamb for the Democratic Party.

Thanks for all you do for Democratic Underground.

[Paradise]

135. sent to me in error. :) nt

[Einsteinga]

139. I don't completely agree...

You say we are all on the same side here, and we are not. We may all call ourselves democrats, but if we take that label away and simply describe what our views are in relation to government, it is clear that we are not all the same. For instance, I have a strong opposition to the democratic party's endemic hatred for gun ownership rights. There was a point in my life, when I could have possibly saved another family member, if I had had a gun in my house. I didn't, at the time, but now I have several.

I don't believe in heaping scorn upon a dead man...bum, CEO, President, or Elf. Everyone should have their peace when they cross over, in my opinion. But I do realize that not everyone in this message board sees it my way. If they did, it would make for a pretty dull message board. I think that our differences unite us here at DU. In short, I think you are absolutely right; I just had to throw my two cents in. It has been weighing heavily on me as I have been reading the other postings.

Sorry if this post seems odd... I am new and still learning the ropes.

Thanks!

[Dorian Gray]

140. Being new here...

This is my first post to this forum, and it's in response to the Admin. I've been reading DU for a about a month now, and I never felt the need to post. I am happy to see, however, the the fever of pro/anti Reagan posts is finally dying down.

I do believe that the division on this board is not particularly indicative of real life people. Most people I know, varying in the political spectrum, were pretty quiet about RR's death. Nobody was singing his praises, just as nobody was wanting to spit on his corpse. (And I live in New York City, where I'm friends with lots of VERY politically active people.)

I find it interesting that the opposite is true here. Perhaps the anonymity of the online forum just makes it easier to express our innermost thoughts. Our ids can come out and play.

Anyhow, I appreciate this call for peace and reminder that we're all on the "same side." It's a much needed reminder, as emotions did seem to be running high in the last week. Hopefully discussion of more important topics will resume, and I look forward to participating in those in the near future! :)

[Name removed]

141. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lapauvre]

142. Right on, Skinner.

WE are not only mostly democrats on here, we are each and everyone Americans.

It became very clear to me today that the Schalfly's of the world actually have some concerns that are concerns for democrats. We Americans have never been far off the mark, I don't think.

(okay, so Neil Diamond is a favorite of mine, and Morningside does make me weep, remembering my grandfather's table carved of oaken wood was bulldozed into a canal in Louisiana makes it meaningful to me)

And it doesn't matter that there were no child protection laws back then to protect me from the abuse I endured.

But the old man who died was not Ronald Reagan. The old man who died is an human being deserving the pity of his dehumanization. And Nancy Reagan, who I once despised, was a caregiver, a caretaker, and a person worthy of the respect of every compassionate American, and I expect Democrats to be among the most compassionate.

As you say, Skinner, this is a place to get it out. This is a place where some democrat said "Screaming is permitted...." when pain is great.

But I do hope that this room will not be a predominant source of reviling, insulting, discrediting, hatred, and/or smearing, at this time, of the deceased Ronald Reagan. Or the elderly, frail, enduring, osteoporotic Nancy Reagan.

I remember it all, just as you do, and perhaps better than some of the young ones.

Before Republicanism, before neo-cons, before Democrats, before extreme liberals, we are ALL Americans.

Later, if and when GWB tries to make hay with this, we can make hay with it.

But, for the moment, Morningside. For ALL Americans, he left the table. Ronald Reagan was a phenomenal person, and we can deal with history and decisions later. For the moment, there may be an attempt by GWB to claim the table. And never, never should that be permitted.

GWB does not have the capacity, the wit, the ability of communication given to Ronald Reagan.

I hope that most of you can give respect and differentiate between a master communicator and an opportunistic liar and dummy.

Reagan, on the side of the conservatives did what Dean on the side of the liberals did. I respect Dean. I respect Reagan.

Only difference is, there won't be the evangelical right who used Reagan, and turned him into a forbidden idol, like unto a God, and those who try to turn GWB into the same thing. They didn't like Dean and WE did not support him.

Reagan was not God, or sent from God. GWB is not God, or sent from God, no matter what the evangelicals say. Reagan was controlled as is GWB.

And Orrin Hatch is now speaking for "stem cell research."

WE have our work cut out for us, but let us be up to it with dignity, respect, and even gratitude that Nancy Reagan has made stem cell research a needful thing.

Sneering and jeering is not for us, I hope. I consider that the province of the neocons. It's not my bag.

An old man died. An old woman suffered. Is it too much to ask of even those who fully understand the history to have compassion?

Deal with it later. Okay?