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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:08 PM
Original message
"We live in a different world after 9/11..."
Edited on Mon Jun-07-04 02:12 PM by IrateCitizen
Y'know, I was thinking a lot about this frequently-uttered statement just last night. I was watching a taped episode of NOW with Bill Moyers from a couple of weeks back, and David Brancaccio was conducting an interview with a NY attorney discussing the administration's abandonment of the Geneva conventions, and he uttered this statement as if it were a basic truth.

My question is, why is it considered to be a basic truth?

Let's look at this in a bit of context. Approximately 3,000 people died on 9/11/01. That is less than 0.05% of the population of New York City alone. Over 20 times as many people (approx. 70,000) died in the firebombing of Dresden in 1945. Approximately 70,000 died from the atomic bomb dropped over Nagasaki. The death toll from the bomb dropped on Hiroshima reached 140,000 by December 1945.

When viewed in this comparison, the actual loss of life incurred on 9/11/01 -- while still completely unjustified, and heartwrenching to the families left in its wake -- is actually pretty small. Yet, this one event has completely transformed not only the way that Americans view the rest of the world, but their own society as well.

In the post-9/11 world, we are told that we must be willing to trade away our "rights" for "security". We are told that we must strike our "enemies" before they strike us. If we had suffered an attack on the level of the instances cited above, I might be able to begin to understand such fear from the populace. However, I find it absolutely perplexing why someone living in Davenport, IA or Concord, NH would suddenly view a terrorist attack as the most pressing danger out there, compelling them to advocate the invalidation of the entire Bill of Rights, along with the Geneva Conventions and previously accepted norms of international relations, just in hopes of placating their irrational fear.

The only conclusion at which I can arrive when looking at things this way is that we actually live in a weak country. Fear is an emotion borne out of weakness, not strength. It is an acknowledgement of the fragility of one's position or existence in the world, and the accompanying willingness to adopt any means necessary in order to prevent that weakness from being exposed. The funny thing about fear, though, is that it over time serves to shed light on the very weakness that one is trying to hide from view.

Like much of the citizenry reacts in fear, so do the country's leaders in trying to present America as a beacon of strength in the world. It's like the advice given by Sun Tzu in The Art of War -- when strong, project weakness; and when weak, project strength. When our leaders speak of America as being the "indispensible nation", is it because they fear that the world is realizing that our previous hegemony is gone? When we talk of using brute military force to affect "regime change" around the globe, is it because military force is so outmoded in world affairs that we cannot even manage to occupy a decimated nation the size of California?

So, is the world REALLY that much different after 9/11, or did it simply highlight how delicate America's position has become, and the only difference is the psychological need to try and project "strength" to cover up our growing weaknesses?
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. You question it because it is BULLSHIT.
Like the Reichstag Fire, it is only convenient as a Propaganda Point in order to condition people to accept the New Imperial Order.

I tell everyone: "9-11 wasn't what changed the world. 12-12-2000 and the Death of the Old Republic changed it. Once in motion, 9-11 was then a foregone conclusion."
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Servo300 Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. What is the significance
of the date 12/12/2000 ?
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Bush v. Gore decided by the SCOTUS "Felonious Five" (nt)
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Servo300 Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. OK... so what did that have to do with 9/11?
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. If the Bloodless Coup of 2000 is foiled, so is 9-11
or minimized.

Read about the "Hart-Rudman" report of 2000 and the Bushevik Response to it.

Compare the actions of the Clinton Adminitsration and the Millenium Bomber (caught and foiled) in which organizations were notified, public statements made about the threat, etc ("We want everyone to have a good time, but be aware...").

And that doesn't even factor in the fact that LIHOP might be true, or MIHOP...
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Servo300 Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. So, do you think if Gore had been elected
the 9/11 attacks wouldn't have happened?
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Can't say fully either way, but I expect they'd have been partially or
Edited on Mon Jun-07-04 02:36 PM by tom_paine
totally foiled in the same way the Millenium Bomber was and with the same general tactics.

I can't be sure, but there is every chance.

That discounts LIHOP and MIHOP, which might also be true, particularly LIHOP.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Gore listened to Richard Clarke in the Clinton admin, and would had
listened to him in a Gore Admin. Who can say what would have happened, but Gore took things seriously.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. You do know, don't you, that after Bush's selection
FBI field agents were called off the bin Laden money trail?

A lot of Bushies could get swept up in that dragnet, including bin Laden business associate Poppy, Uncle Jonathan of terrorist-funding Riggs Bank, and GW himself, who got a leg-up in the oil business from al Qaeda financier Khalid bin Mahfouz and Salem bin Laden.

If you haven't, you ought to read Greg Palast's report of the Bushies' spiking the bin Laden investigation:

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/7310

And more here on the Bush/bin Laden history:
http://www.911review.org/Wget/www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/AAsaudi.html

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Burma Jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Yep, I do and here's why
1. A change in leadership switched people's focus

2. The Bushies held the Clinton people in contempt, and thus were busy plotting rather than pick up where the Clinton Administration Left Off.

3. They were more interested in Saddam than "swatting flies" but it's those small insects that kill the most people on earth - Freepers reading this - I am commenting on the metaphor and extending it. If you don't know the definition of metaphor, look it up.

4. See Richard Clarke.....

5. Of course, Ashcroft knew enough to keep off of the Airlines......
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. New and improved propaganda: "perception management". n/t
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. That is exactly right. Bullshit. Period.
It wasn't even the first terrorist attack on American soil.
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Human beings are very stupid sometimes.
Human's are not generally very good with probabilities. Which is rough because understanding probabilities is a big part of understanding the world around us. This is why we have the fear based society we have.

It is a predictable but entirely false notion that becuase a terrorist attack happened, terrorist attacks are more likely than before.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. Well, it was an overwhelmingly spectacular terrorist attack
Edited on Mon Jun-07-04 02:20 PM by jpgray
And unprecedented as such in this country. The world didn't change, but the political landscape did--the Bush administration had been handed an immensely powerful tool for coercion and propaganda.

Don't fool yourself--we could occupy Iraq with relative ease for a few years if we wanted to. It would require an amount of subjugation and brutality that would make Saddam Hussein blush, but we have the equipment and manpower to do it. We are not a 'weak' country militarily, but in terms of leadership and our citizenry, we are about as sick as sick can be, and with that sickness comes weakness.

The urge to subvert the rights and laws that make things 'difficult' for authoritarian rulers has always been there--9/11 is an excuse that allows those subversions to happen in a way that was not previously possible, and therefore in a way our world has changed as a result.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I agree with your first statement, but not necessarily your second
Don't fool yourself--we could occupy Iraq with relative ease for a few years if we wanted to. It would require an amount of subjugation and brutality that would make Saddam Hussein blush, but we have the equipment and manpower to do it. We are not a 'weak' country militarily, but in terms of leadership and our citizenry, we are about as sick as sick can be, and with that sickness comes weakness.

While we could certainly occupy Iraq successfully, assuming that our military "investment" is able to remain intact, by unleashing a full barrage of brutality and sadism -- there are quite a lot of "ifs" in our ability to maintain military investment at current levels.

These "ifs" highlights that the modern world is no longer a bipolar (or unipolar) one, with hegemony defined in terms of military might. The modern world is one in which no power will ever gain hegemony, and advantage is expressed through economic terms.

As it stands now, the US economy is primarily driven by massive household consumption largely made possible by the industrial power of Europe (led by the Franco-German center of production) and the Pacific Rim (led by Japan) which provides goods and services for production; combined with the hoarding of global investment capital created through this production by the United States, enabled by its control over the IMF and World Bank.

In essence, any US hegemony is only made possible by the allowance of that hegemony by an increasingly independent Japan and Western Europe. Now, there are several factors that help keep Japan and Europe giving their tacit approval to this arrangement. One, is the fact that the US economy provides a huge market for their goods and services, and removal of this market would certainly result in short-term economic pain. Two, is the dependence of these regions on Middle Eastern oil -- the spigot of which is largely controlled by the US.

While an abandonment of international norms would certainly enable the US to subjugate Iraq, it could also alienate Japan and the EU to the point that they could decide that any short-term pain due to a collapse of the US market would be worth stopping an increasingly irrational and reckless United States. This also becomes more and more possible as Russia's recovery continues, because the EU and Japan could turn to Russia, with its vast and unrealized petroleum and natural gas reserves, rather than the Middle East (and all of the US-sponsored unrest that comes with it) for its energy needs.

If Japan and the EU would suddenly decide that the benefits of the US market were outweighed by the risks (which the subjugation of Iraq could entail), we would certainly not be able to finance our military for very long. And there really wouldn't be a damned thing we could do about it to the EU or Japan, either.
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Burma Jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's something simple for idiots to say
If you think things are all that different post 9/11, go to New York City. With the exception of the gaping hole in the skyline, things are back to normal. If the Chimp wins New York and New Jersey, then I might think the world had changed. But the fact remains that the people most effected by terrorism - those that live in New York and DC - are also still predominantly Democrat.

It makes me laugh when the folks in the Red States get all worked up about terrorism. The only times THEY have experienced terrorism, it has been from the right-wing against left-wing targets like the Murrah Federal Building or lynching victims. They only want the Blue states to be part of their USA when it's time for us to pay taxes, provide innovation, or serve as a target for terrorists.

The world did change after 9/11, but it was because the Chimp used the event to foist his lies on a frightened and intellectualy lazy USA.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. I work in NYC, so I know what you're talking about.
It's like Jon Stewart said in his commencement speech to William & Mary -- he knew that NYC was going to be OK the time that he saw a guy hunched over on the street, and when he went to check on him to see if he was all right, discovered that the guy was playing with himself. ;-)

It doesn't surprise me to hear administration officials uttering this, or even the chattering classes of punditry and infotainment. But when I hear it uttered by the co-host of PBS's NOW, which is perhaps the best example of true investigative journalism left on TV, I can't help but get good and pissed about it.
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. That ridiculous statement is manipulative drivel
You have summed up my opinion, regarding it's intent, quite nicely.

Excellent post, I.C.
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-04 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
17. Relatively speaking, 9/11 was minor
Except of course to the relatives.

About 400,000 Americans die each year because of tobacco related illnesses. That's more than two 9/11 attacks per week. Make no mistake, Bush is hyping 9/11 to maintain his political power.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
18. KICK!
:kick:
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info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
19. Most Americans are weak
9/11 should have changed nothing. To allow 9/11 to change the world is to allow the terrorists to win...whomever those terrorists really are.
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Selwynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
20. IC, I have wondered that over and over and over again...
I'm really glad you wrote about that, because it has been a serious question on my mind too. It seems like noone ever questions the legitimacy of that statement, but I don't see it as vaild.

Maybe I'll write about it myself in the future.
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Ripley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
21. The chances of me getting killed in my city by terrorists...
Edited on Tue Jun-08-04 12:24 PM by Ripley
has not gone up since 9/11. But everything did change after 9/11, just not the way they want us to believe. They want you to be afraid...my Gawd! I can die at the hands of a radical Muslim as I'm flying to Vegas!!! Please keep me safe oh tough-guy Republicans!!!

The change was the radical neocon and religious right extremist agenda being pushed through very quickly and under the secrecy of "national security."

Another change is that it really hardened Americans hearts. They became much more isolationist and afraid of the "Other." They are willing to give up their rights, in fact they are willing to let the government invade countries and conduct secret activities all in the name of national security. Americans have become lazy. They don't want to think about the hard stuff. The complicated country called Iraq. And you can bet your last dollar that these changes couldn't have been more exploited by the right.

On Edit: forgot to say...that dismays me too that David would say that without explaining it. He seems very level headed and he shouldn't just repeat propaganda.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. RE: David's saying it without explaining it
I've heard Brancaccio make similar statements as "truisms" during interviews on NOW before. I think that it was as much of an accumulation of this realization during this interview that led me to pose this question than anything else.

I'm a huge fan of NOW because it is NOT what currently passes for "journalism" in this country. It is NOT "infotainment. It asks serious questions, and isn't afraid to go against "establishment" thinking. At least it does while Bill Moyers is conducting interviews and arranging segments. However, I see the acceptance of conventional wisdom as fact on Brancaccio's part to be a disturbing trend, one that makes me a bit uneasy about the future of the show once Moyers retires late this year.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. It was used like a PR stunt
Like Reagan's funeral is being played as the death of god. And there were no leaders to take a strong and principled stand in strong and consistant opposition.

It is the Democrats who are weak. Weakened by complicity, weakened by greed, weakened by a strong and persitant effort by the Right to dominate the consensus, terminology and rules of the game and the means to broadcast it all. The Democrats better get to work--Bush is so bad, the Democrats might win this one, but they are not winning anything other than that. This shouldn't even be a contest.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. It's not just the Democrats that are weak, CWeb...
It's an almost universal trait among our national leaders, regardless of party. The one common denominator has become an uncanny tendency to always choose the path of least resistance.

For instance, going back to Reagan's 1980 run against Carter, I see the Reagan years as the beginning of a tendency to make up imaginary problems to deal with because the real ones were just too hard to address. Energy shortages? Don't take serious steps toward conservation and alternative energies -- start harping on "welfare queens"!

The trend has continued to this day. The difficult but correct response in the wake of 9/11 would have been to seriously re-evaluate America's role in the world, to take steps to reduce militarism, and to engage in cooperative, international law enforcement-type efforts to disrupt militants, while at the same time actively using our position in the world to address legitimate grievances of the Arab world toward US meddling in their affairs. But instead we saw a regression into overly simplistic thinking, characterizing the situation as one of black and white, and reflexively relying on brute military force.

If anyone thinks this is strictly a Republican phenomenon, there has been plenty of endorsement from Democrats in this trajectory as well. It's one of the reasons I view Bill Clinton largely as a missed opportunity, a holding pattern that only slowed down this regression of American society rather than actively seeking to transform it.

And it can be said that the American people get leaders they deserve. We are a culture that increasingly elevates ignorance over intellectualism -- to the point that many Americans can't even point out the US on a world map! History -- forget about it! When I think of things in these terms, I think back to Ben Franklin's response to a woman questioning him about what kind of government they had created at the Constitutional Convention. His response was, "A Republic, ma'am... if you can keep it."

It's clear we haven't done a very good job at keeping it.
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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
24. I hate to be the first to say this
but many Americans buy into that statement because this time it (supposedly) affected *them*.

By and large, even if we are not outright selfish, we are a very self-centered society, ignorant of the goings on in the rest of the world. We also crave public mourning for some unknown reason. 9/11 played into the worst of our traits as a society, and gave us an excuse to continue to be self-centered, and even become more so. We didn't have to pretend anymore to care about those black/brown/whatever people half way around the world- the ones who deserved our *prayers* were right here in our very own back yard.


The things you mentioned are ancient history to most Americans- if they knew of them to begin with. And just try talking to the average American about current or recent mass slayings and genocidal rampages such as that which occurred in Rwanda- if they've even heard of them, that is.

9/11 changed nothing. There have always been acts of terror and always will be. People of every religion, faith, race, creed, color and geography will continue to use terroristic tactics in an attempt to "win" their victories. We will really never stop that.

But 9/11 happened to America, by God. And for that, someone must pay.


I'm sorry to sound as if I think so little of my fellow Americans. But most of the time, I REALLY DO. We could have such potential as a people, could have such an ability to make a positive influence in this world. And yet our only concern is what JLo wore in her 6th/7th/whatever wedding or what Kobe will wear at his next court appearance or whether Scott Peterson's mistress really was pregnant. We're almost *proud* of our ignorance- and then we wonder why we're often so despised in the rest of the world.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. You're not the only one who feels this way, LLIT
I wish I could maintain hope in the people of our country, but dammit, they make it hard to do so! I'm often amazed at the amount of ignorance that is represented among a lot of the people I work with -- and I work with almost all college graduates. And when I have to attend reserve drills, let me tell you, it's utterly AMAZING what some of the people THERE think!

When I look at the way in which Europe has worked so hard to get past their national differences and to adopt means other than war to solve their problems, I often have to remember that many of the European nations lost the better part of two generations in two brutal wars on their continent. There are people there who still remember what it was like to actually live through a war -- not from a home thousands of miles from the front, as was the case with the United States, but to actually live through bombing raids and urban warfare all around you.

Perhaps if the people of this nation had once truly been subjected to the horrors of war, we might have a bit of a different attitude towards it. Instead, we think it's all some video game, and present ourselves as the ultimate victims because of just one damned attack on our soil.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
29. I laugh when I hear them try to compare * to Roosevelt
especially when I think of the "We have nothing to fear but fear itself" line.

* turned that on it's head.

Bush wants America to feed on it's own fears, and it's own prejudices. In so doing he inspires division, he inspires hatred, he inspires revenge, he inspires terror.

When people are afraid, they give up their civil liberties, they give up their freedoms and they think only about themselves.

We have a fear based economy, as well. We are afraid we look bad, eat too much, dress stupidly, don't have the right car to protect our kids, our genitals or breasts are too small, we're chronically depressed, anxious or in pain, and that if we don't have a specific set of tools to fix those problems, no one will think we are successful or like us.

Hence a wide variety of products, drugs, clothing lines that fit the fear.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
30. It's the same shitty corrupt place that it's been for centuries
The purpose of the attacks was to send a message to Americas Financial & Political Elite.

The message "we know what you value most & we can destroy it"

If 1 person died or 30,000 they are indifferent to this it's the symbols of American Power that matter to them.

FBI disclaimer this is my opinion only
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Kanary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
31. Several times that many are killed on highways every year...
that hasn't "changed the world"

18,000 die in the US every year from lack of medical care. That hasn't "changed the world"

etc etc etc

Every tragedy is IMPORTANT.... but according to the Reich Wing, and the media in their pockets, some are more important than others.

It's The Fear Factor........

Kanary
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
32. I Feel The Same Way, I/C
Here's what i think changed about the world on 9/11.

Many millions of otherwise ignorant, fat, and happy americans figured out that there were millions of people in this world who loathe this country with an intensity that goes beyond their comprehension.

At the same time, there were millions of informed americans who already knew that, and were not terribly surprised there was an attack on U.S. soil. Maybe the scope of the attack and the method surprised us, but not the probability of one.

The world has NOT changed at all since 9/11. There is a segment of the global population that hates us and will act on that hate before, and there is now.

There is a segment of the global population that would like to see us suffer, but wouldn't act directly on us, and they are still out there.

There is a segment of the global population that would support us to the end, and they are still there.

There is a segment of the global population that would prefer to keep their heads down and see what happens, and they're still there.

So, the fact is that all that has changed is that the most ignorant and uninformed and now a little less ignorant. And, since they were blissful in their ignorance, they now want the gov't to protect them.

The rest of us knew what we knew, were right the whole time, and for us nothing has changed.
The Professor
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
33. the world is the same
we are different (or our perception of the world). The fundamentalists (Islamic) have been engaging in acts of terror for awhile now.
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Petrodollar Warfare Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
34. What changed is this administration's *reaction* to...
Edited on Tue Jun-08-04 03:12 PM by GoreN4
...the 9/11 terrorists attack. As George Soros said, the world did not change, we did. He is quite correct with his observations that this administration's over-reaction to that attack is what has changed the perception of America to the world community. To me, the attack was really a necessary component to neoconservative geostrategy which is premised upon the US as the global dominant empire. The USA of 2001 is much weaker than the USA of the immediate post-WWII period for 3 principle reasons.

1) The US reached peak domestic oil production in 1971, and as early as 1977 the CIA has been acutely studying the effects of peak oil in the former USSR, and most likely since 1995 at the global level. In 1995 Petroconsultants out of Zurich, the most highly regarded and authoritative source on the 40,000 developed oil fields in the planet predicted global peak oil at the "end of the next decade." Langley is rumored to be their biggest client, so the wheels were turning in the late 1990s as to how to meet (excessive) US energy consumption

2) Over the past 30 years the US's manufacturing power has been hollowed out to nations with cheaper labor or in a couple of cases more advanced technology (Japan and Germany). Since 1988 the USA trade account went negative, and have become the biggest debotor nation, and less competitive in the global economy due to our high labor costs.

3) The 4-decade long process for European unification took a giant leap forward with the successful lauch of the euro currency in Jan 1999. It has been publicly stated by people in the US Federal Reserve that a united European Union is the only geopolitical area that could pose a challenge to US hegemony, and despite US efforts to divide the EU with our "special relationship" with the UK, it seems envitnable that a strong EU has emerging this decade.

So, the elites in the US, not wanting to give up any of the US hegemonic power after the fall of communism needed to create a "new and improved" existential threat. Clinton was able to postpone such a development due to his 2-terms, but this administration needed 9/11 in order to assert US military hegemony on top of our current economic hegemony, which basically requires the US to have a strangehold over the world's diminishing hydrocarbon reserves.

This is all too complicated for your average fat, dumb and happy citizen, so fear must be used to pursue the geostrategy as plainly articulated in the various PNAC documents (with various components from the original and controversial Wolfowitcz/Cheney defense strategy document of 1992.) They needed a "new Pearl Harbor," and I think 9/11/01 was simply a bit more than what they bargained for...hence the unprecedented secrecy and need to cover-up any threads that could be pulled regarding that tragic Tuesday morning.

So, I have deducted the current Bush administration is simply incapable of addressing the challenges presented by global peak oil, and has decided to pursue a geostrategy of military dominance rather than massive energy reform. We are a waning power economically, so the militay is now being overtly used to prop-up our super power status for a while longer. And why not? Hitler & Goebbels showed how effective fear and propaganda was for controlling the entire population, thereby shielding the people from the economic and political gaols of an imperialist power. Remember, Hilter told the German people that Russia was invaded to protect them from the Godless Bolseviks and communists terrorists. However, he told the German General in charge of materials and munitions that Germany must invade Russia ("Barbarossa Invasion") in order to capture the oil-rich Caucasus region in southern Russia. It was really that simple.

Same deal with Iraq circa 2003, just different actors. Indeed, Sept 11, 2001 was our Reichstag fire, and that is how I predict historians will ultimately judge today's events. Yes, we live in a different world, but it is for reasons that most people do not understand, and it has nothing much to do with terrorism, and a helluva lot to do with desperation regarding US hegemony and the imminent phenomenon known as global peak oil...

#########

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be a part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder."
-Albert Einstein


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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-09-04 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. I was waiting for someone to bring up these themes!
And you certainly didn't disappoint me, GoreN4. Your reference to the role of hydrocarbons in all of this is the unifying factor.

One point on which I take a slight disagreement is that the US is unable to compete on the global labor market due to high labor costs. Labor costs are high in Japan and the Franco-German engine that drives the EU, but both are still highly competitive. What I see as the mitigating factor with the US is the manner in which the US essentially hogs the majority of the world's investment capital through international institutions such as the IMF, which it then uses to finance its rampant overconsumption -- the one thing that still holds its economy together. This phenomenon has dictated that the US economy moves toward becoming more and more of a "finance economy" driven by Wall St. than the old manufacturing economy that we were at the height of our power during the post-WWII boom, at which time we supplied over half of the world's manufacturing capacity.

Since our economy depends so much on rampant consumer spending, hydrocarbons are a prime factor in keeping our economy going. It's important not just for our domestic economy, but for the countries that supply our goods and services.

Chalmers Johnson has written extensively about our "empire of bases" around the world in his latest book, The Sorrows of Empire. And he is correct in asserting that the United States is an empire of bases, maintaining a military presence throughout the world. The 14 permanent bases being built in Iraq are a big part of that, because it allows us to replace our garrisons in an increasingly volatile Saudi Arabia while still maintaining a direct presence right smack dab in the middle of Middle Eastern oil. The main power of the United States military lies not in the number of forces or the territory controlled, but as the military itself states, its ability to project military force all over the globe.

One area that I think Johnson misses, however, and that French historian and demographer Emmanuel Todd hits in his book After the Empire (titled Apres l'Empire in its original French) is that this "empire" is an extremely weak one. Unlike the ancient Romans, who controlled the world as they knew it directly, the US empire has come to depend upon the cooperation of the other emerging power centers of the world -- Europe (led by the consolidating Franco-German alliance) and the Pacific Rim (led by Japan). The US "hegemony" remains only as long as Europe and Japan allow it to. They allow it to continue because it currently serves their immediate interest to do so. But if the time comes where it no longer serves their interest, then the US "empire" will almost immediately collapse under its own weight.

This is where we turn back to hydrocarbons. One of the reasons that Europe and Japan give their cooperation to US hegemony is that they are almost fully dependent upon imports from the Middle East to provide fuel for their industrial capacity. This is the reason that the US is so hell bent on maintaining a presence in Iraq -- so it can control the spigot to Europe and Japan, thus ensuring their cooperation.

The real wild card in this whole deal is Russia. It is estimated that, of the remaining oil and natural gas reserves on the planet, Russia is second only behind Saudi Arabia. In The Grand Chessboard, former National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski advocated that the US take steps to force the dismantling of Russia following the end of the Cold War. The reason was that Russia still maintained the sole capacity on the earth to present a direct challenge to US hegemony. In some ways, his plan was carried out -- "shock therapy" to completely wreck the Russian economy, the separation of Ukraine and Belarus from the Russian Federation, the encroachement of NATO further and further eastward. But in the long view, American leaders were predictably lazy, and carried these efforts out in a half-assed kind of way, following the usual path of least resistance.

This has enabled Russia to finally start to turn itself around. It is now experiencing positive economic growth for the past few years after a decade of economic contraction. Perhaps most importantly, it has realized its self-sufficiency due to significant natural resources, enabling it to maintain a positive trade balance and essentially ignore the dictates of the IMF and World Bank. Of course, it isn't out of the woods yet, but there are promising signs of its recovery. Furthermore, Todd notes in his book that the former Soviet Republics still share a huge cultural affinity with Russia. He notes that the Ukraine is torn between wanting a certain degree of autonomy, and being historically dependent on Russia for technological advancement. There is also still an affinity with the former Central Republics as well, due to the more universalist spirit of Russia in bringing together different cultures (as opposed to the increasingly xenophobic and decidedly UN-universalist United States, with its ever-present fear of the undesirable "other").

This presents Europe and Japan with an interesting choice. The US continues to stir up trouble in the Middle East, making oil supplies there increasingly unreliable (and subject to US control). The US presents an increasingly xenophobic tendency, coupled with a classist and decidedly unegalitarian society. It also is acting increasingly irrationally and unpredictable, preferring to fall back on militarism than work through diplomatic channels and international institutions, out of hopes of preserving a quickly disappearing hegemony. Russia, OTOH, presents more of the cultural values in common with Europe -- universalism, a willingness to work through international bodies, a communitarian tradition (dating back well into the Tsarist age) that will eventually push things toward greater egalitarianism -- while at the same time presenting hydrocarbon supplies with little of the unrest that exists in the Middle East, since the US isn't constantly stirring up the hornets' nest there. Russia also presents many of these qualities to Japan, due to its physical proximity and many of the greater cultural affinities that they also share with Russia (especially the Asiatic peoples of Eastern Russia).

So, I guess what we're looking at is an approaching tipping point, a time at which the US will just become too irrational for Europe and Japan to deal with to be overshadowed by any short-term benefits, and Russia will emerge to the point that it will present another alternative to counter what remains of US hegemony, without any of the insanity or desires for world domination to go along with it. When that happens, there are two things that are relatively certain. First, US military power will decline rapidly, essentially imploding on itself. The US will be in no position to raise any kind of serious protest to Europe and/or Japan, due to their economic superiority. Second, the standard of living in the United States will drop as much as 25%, as investment capital that we have been hogging begins instead to flow to those who create it (Europe and Japan) and those who actually need it (the developing world).

Of course, all of this could be a GOOD thing, because the rest of the world seems to realize two important facts that the US does not -- that there never will again be a singular "world power", but rather several regional blocs; and that no nation can really extend their power through military means, as Todd points out has been proven by the failures to do so throughout the 20th century. The possibility remains that the collapse of the remaining skeleton of US hegemony could actually usher in an era of relative world peace among industrialized nations, and allowing modernizing nations (like much of the Middle East) to find their own path without constant US interference.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-08-04 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
35. It hasn't changed
The only change is that 9-11 made people more aware of a danger that has always existed.

We'd be a lot healthier as a nation if we'd learn a sense of proportion -- neithger ignoring danger nor making it a focal point for everything.

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