Was Reagan mean-spirited underneath his smiling exterior?

[Michael Costello]

When I think of the horrors of the Reagan presidency, the massacre in El Mozote comes to mind. The El Salvadoran army, supported by Reagan, which massacred not only peasants, priests and nuns but even the Catholic archbishop, walked into a remote village, El Mozote, and killed all of the residents.



Just one of the many horrors supported by Reagan during his presidency. When the American people finally had Congress start squelching this military aid, Reagan and his executives violated the Constitution and continued sending arms to the terrorist, drug-dealing Nicaraguan contras, by selling arms to Iran. However, while this is horrible, it allows for some distance, it seems more the banality of evil than mean-spirited. As does Reagan starting his presidential campaign in the town where civil rights workers were killed trying to integrate the south, sending the national guard to beat students at People's Park and that sort of thing.

I think Reagan's mean-spiritedness was most clearly on display during the UFW's grape boycott. The farm workers, mostly Mexican, who were paid next to nothing and asking for very little (that water and toilets be made available in the fields, that pesticides not be sprayed from airplanes on fields while people were working on those fields) were boycotting grapes to try to improve these conditions. Governor Reagan appeared on TV, munching grapes and saying how he wasn't following any boycott. He took the side of the large, wealthy, corporate farms in their attempt to crush the meager demands of the Mexican farm workers - mostly that they not be treated in the same conditions of the other animals on the farm, but as human beings. Reagan seemed delighted in his attempts to try and crush their spirits, and ground them and their children back down into the dust. It reminded me of Margaret Thatcher being interviewed for the series "the Commanding Heights" where she seems incredibly delighted about crushing the miners union in the UK. I don't think I ever saw Thatcher or Reagan more happy than when they were helping wealthy people beat down poor and working poor people. They were mean-spirited people, Reagan even more disturbingly so due to his shared religious fanaticism, as well as his empty smile.

I think people should remember Reagan's attack on the weak when they see people not honor his death. Especially now that his death has become a week-long political rally for the 2004 election. Reagan can not defend himself any more, but Reagan never stopped his mean-spirited attacks on those least able to defend themselves on behalf of the idle class. Reagan's mean-spirited nature brings out the mean-spiritedness of people, whatever their political persuasion.

[GoBlue]

1. Here's more. Dubya is Ronnie's true legacy.

KILLER, COWARD, CON-MAN
GOOD RIDDANCE, GIPPER ...
MORE PROOF ONLY THE GOOD DIE YOUNG
Sunday, June 6, 2004


by Greg Palast
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=336&row=0

[notbush]

2. Greg's a hater....

Hate breeds hate.... Count me out.

[thebigidea]

5. gag

[papau]

10. not a hater - just did not care - claim the "village" would always help

those in need

so no need for government

indeed government got in the way of our expressing ourselves with good deeds like helping those in need.

at least that is what he sold year after year

just did not care as it was not really a problem

and he stayed in character with that theme for 40 years.

[izzie]

14. This seems about right. I do not think he cared.

Russia would have gone down with out this man spending us in to the dirt, and I think it is what a President does for the people that counts, not a few rich friends. I just do not think he was a great President. I also think he was ill long before he gave the speech and every one knew it but just over looked it.

[playahata1]

20. Yes, mother.

get a grip.

[physioex]

3. His record in South American and union busting ATC speaks volumes.EOM

[punpirate]

4. Many of the Reagan politics of the `80s, I believe...

... were probably carried out by Reaganite ideologues--Reagan was too out of it then to get into detailed vendettas.

However, the recent revelations about his attempts to destroy Clark Kerr, illegally using information from the FBI, and using smears from right-wing indusrialists in California to both ruin Kerr and the university system as it was then were exceptionally mean-spirited and can be traced directly back to desires of Reagan. Then, St. Ronnie's fool's smile belied a persona capable of great malice in service of money interests and ideology.

The vaunted "Star Wars" program, impossible to deploy, even at trillions of dollars invested, depended upon two major industrial segments--defense aerospace and computers. These were the same two major industrial sectors of California at the time. His Kitchen Cabinet saw to it that Reagan supporters were rewarded, and Ronnie probably approved... even though he probably thought Han Solo worked for Lockheed.

[pnorman]

6. That confirms my long-held feeling:

That underneath his "infectuous grin", was a mean-spirited and small-minded SON OF A BITCH. I had a vague idea of his antipathy towards the UFW farmworkers, but was unaware of that public grape-munching gesture. I intend to make specific reference to that on my union BBS in the near future. Do you have any reference source I can cite?

pnorman

[Michael Costello]

11. references

I saw it on television. This web site mentions it:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.article&issue=soj9705&article=970532c

"Another politician, Ronald Reagan, who was governor of California at the start of UFW’s grape boycott, also makes a poignant appearance in 'The Fight in the Fields' — munching on grapes and saying that, as far as he was concerned, there was no boycott."

[pnorman]

15. Thanks for the link.

I sure wasn't doubting anyones word here, but I HAVE to have verification for the Reagan-loving Scissor-Bill (read: ASS-HOLE) I'm dealing with on my union BBS. I'll give him a week for his bathetic weep-fest though; MUCH more than HE gave ME for the Wellstone tragedy.

And to the original poster of this thread: I had assumed it was a quote so I Google-searched it but came up empty. It was very well written and, with your permission, I may use some of your phraseology.

SI SE PUEDE! (Yes, we can!)

pnorman

[Turbineguy]

13. Didn't he say of the homeless

that they must like fresh air?

[Judi Lynn]

19. Thanks for introducing this act to readers who had not heard about it.

It's VERY significant, and not at all ambiguous. It gives a very direct look into the man's "personality."

Cesar Chavez will be truly honored forever, for real reasons. I can't respect a man who ran roughshod over so many, many people, and treated them with so little concern.

[DoctorWeird]

7. Dying Doesn't Change...

Dying doesn't change the crap Reagan pulled in his presidency. I thought he was a crummy president on Friday and he's still a crummy president today. I don't like to speak ill of the dead, but if someone asks me what I think of this "patriot" I'm not going to lie and say he was a great speaker or a man of the people or anything else that I don't believe. And I think everyone else should be free to say what they think as well. Hate breeds more hate, fine. But I do hate the things Reagan did. And lies breed ignorance. Im not going to say Reagan was great and let some kid think he was because I don't want to "speak ill of the dead"

[DaveSZ]

9. Watch this video by ABC news about his union busting:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/video_index/video_index.html


(Click on "Reaganomics")

[pnorman]

16. That lead to a Democracy NoW! audio file.

I didn't really need that but it caused me to check out the Democracy Now! website. Plenty of ammo there! THANKS. Come to think of it, I'll probably be SWAMPED with material by next week.

pnorman

[booksenkatz]

12. Well said, DoctorWeird!

I haven't been openly attacking RR, either, but if someone ASKS me for my opinion about him, I refuse to lie and sugarcoat the truth. "Lies breed ignorance" indeed!

...and welcome to DU!
:hi:

[newyawker99]

24. Hi DoctorWeird!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Gore1FL]

8. The policies were ultra conservative

From a liberal standpoint, that may seem mean spirited. In fairness, it was more likely that those policies were outside the Reagan doctrine of rule, and therefore more short-sited than mean-spirited.

From what I have heard about Reagan (from those on the left and right that knew him) is that he was an amazingly caring human being at an individual level.

Ron Reagan Jr. is liberal -- somehow he could see past the politics and love his father.

Ron Reagan Jr. is undoubtably going thtough a grieving process right now--and rightfully so.

I hope he doesn't ocme tothis site, because there are an awful lot of threads here ripping his father.

Do we really need to discuss and ridicule the 20-year-old history of the man? Is it worth hurting good people like Ron Reagan Jr. to do so?

Say what you want about RWR, his policies, his politics, but can we please refrain from dancing atop the man's grave at the expense of his family, friends, and the reputations of DU along with it's memebership

[pnorman]

17. "can we please refrain from dancing atop the man's grave"

The problem is that Rove & Co will most certainly SQUEEZE the last drop of advantage out of his carcass before this month is half over. I plan on being prepared for that.

But you're right; WE are the Party of Compassion now (we always were, but it wasn't so obvious until RR showed up). We could be effective and still display that.

pnorman

[playahata1]

23. criticism of policies, actions = dancing on his grave

Am I reading you correctly? Excuse me, but I refuse to genuflect. If the truth hurts, so be it.

This is not about Junior (Reagan) or Patti -- and I am still waiting to see if Nancy has really come around. I refuse to give their father, her husband, a pass, even in death. Just because the man is dead does not mitigate for a second the damage he has done -- and continues to do via his enabling the current maladministration -- to this country and around the world.

Do NOT tell me or anyone else on this board what and how to think, or how to behave. Until the Republicans start acting civil towards liberals and other progressives, they will not get that same civility from me. Peace.

[Gore1FL]

25. Don't spin me

I did say "criticism of policies, actions = dancing on his grave"

But the "thank god he is dead" and the "I hope he rots in hell" commentary is, in fact dancing on his grave.

Until the Republicans start acting civil towards liberals and other progressives, they will not get that same civility from me. Peace.

Or it has been said:

Until the Terrorists stop using torture, they will get that same torture from us. Peace.

To accepot your logic is to accept the freeper logic used to justify prisoner abuse. You can do anything the fuck you want. If using logic you'd otherwise disdain when it is convenient, then bully for you.

If you lose credibility in the process -- If you look like a compassionless idiot -- If you shade others on this board with the same blood you needless draw, well, they are your consequences too.

I am not a Reagan apologist. I just beleive libveral = compassion, and I have not seen much of it.

When there is blood in the water, i guess anyone can act like things they claim to hate. I prefer to avoid it. If you don't go right ahead and continue being hateful.

[Leilani]

18. I truly believe he was the person you saw...

He grew up poor, with an alcoholic father, & yet he achieved what to him was the American dream. And he thought it was possible for everyone else to do the same.

Everyone who knew him personally, liked him. And that goes for liberals as well as conservatives. None of the people who attribute negative qualities to him, knew him.

There are many children of alcoholics who see things as they WISH to see them, because reality is too difficult. So they live in a world of their own imaginings....this is obviously a defense mechanism, to deal with pain.

I am not making excuses for Reagan; he is responsible for his public record & the policies he installed. And they caused pain for many people who are the most vulnerable in our society. But I really believe he did not do these things out of maliciousness.

He lived in a Norman Rockwell world, & he thought so did we all. Remember, he left office with a 66% approval rating...the highest ever for a President. And in his re-election race in 1984 he won 49 out of 50 states. So obviously a great majority of Americans were happy with his Presidency.

So perhaps, that is a more relevant question. Why did so many people like him, & see him in a different light than you have described?
Why have Republicans made such gains, as they now have the White House, Senate, House, etc. If the Dems are to regain majority status again, I think we should expend our energies on trying to solve that problem, rather than railing against a man who is dead & has been out of power for a long time.

[H2O Man]

21. El Mozote & Kent State

After the four students were killed by the National Guard at Kent State University, Governor Reagan said that he thought a "little bloodshed in the streets would be good for the students." Reagan never felt the student & anti-war demostrators, or the civil rights movement, were true Americans. He viewed dissent as equal to being un-patriotic. It was, in my opinion, this lack of insight that led to his prefering the "soldiers" who killed Oscar Romero (who was indeed a Christ-like figure) to the peasant masses in El Salvador.

[Judi Lynn]

22. Thanks for taking the time to point out the consequences

of his indifference to the human race beyond his small circle of privilege.

People this removed from reality shouldn't be running countries.