I GOT THIS EMAIL, PLEASE READ!!!!!

[WLKjr]

Okay, I got this email from a Republican friend of mine that hates the hell out of Kerry and anyone that doesn't agree with Bush. He sent this email to me after I was chatting with him on MSN and told me he hopes this makes me 'think' a little bit. Well I read it, I understand the point of the email, for I have had family in the Military. The email pretty much seems to call me Ungrateful, becuase his mom added a bit to the top that I will not include out of respect for her and her husband who was drafted in Vietnam becuase I understand her feelings. I wouldn't mind sending an email back to him making him 'think' a little bit. But I need some help.


well here is how the email read:

>Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2004 12:00 AM
>Subject: God Bless America...
>
>
>Smiling sadly, I glanced across my table to the empty seat where my husband usually sat. It had only been a few months since we sat in this very booth, talking about his upcoming deployment to the Middle East. That was when he made me promise to get a sitter for the kids, come back to this restaurant once a month and treat myself to a nice steak. In turn he would treasure the thought of me being here, thinking about him until he returned home to me.
>
>I fingered the little flag pin I constantly wear and wondered where he was at this very moment. Was he safe and warm? Was his cold any better? Were my letters getting through to him? As I pondered these thoughts, high pitched female voices from the next booth broke into my thoughts.
>
>"I don't know what Bush is thinking about. Invading Iraq. You'd think that man would learn from his old man's mistakes. Good lord. What an idiot! I can't believe he is even in office. You do know, he stole the election."
>
>I cut into my steak and tried to ignore them, as they began an endless tirade running down our president. I thought about the last night I spent with my husband, as he prepared to deploy. He had just returned from getting his smallpox and anthrax shots. The image of him standing in our kitchen packing his gas mask still gives me chills.
>
>Once again the women's voices invaded my thoughts. "It is all about oil, you know. Our soldiers will go in and rape and steal all the oil they can in the name of 'freedom'. Hmph! I wonder how many innocent people they'll kill without giving it a thought? It's pure greed, you know."
>
>My chest tightened as I stared at my wedding ring. I could still see how handsome my husband looked in his "mess dress" the day he slipped it on my finger. I wondered what he was wearing now. Probably his desert uniform, affectionately dubbed "coffee stains" with a heavy bulletproof vest over it.
>
>"You know, we should just leave Iraq alone. I don't think they are hiding any weapons. In fact, I bet it's all a big act just to increase the president's popularity. That's all it is, padding the military budget at the expense of our social security and education. And, you know what else? We're just asking for another 9-ll. I can't say when it happens again that we didn't deserve it."
>
>Their words brought to mind the war protesters I had watched gathering outside our base. Did no one appreciate the sacrifice of brave men and women who leave their homes and family to ensure our freedom? Do they even know what "freedom" is?
>
>I glanced at the table where the young men were sitting, and saw their courageous faces change. They had stopped eating and looked at each other dejectedly, listening to the women talking.
>
>"Well, I, for one, think it's just deplorable to invade Iraq, and I am certainly sick of our tax dollars going to train professional baby killers we call a military."
>
>Professional baby killers? I thought about what a wonderful father my husband is, and of how long it would be before he would see our children again.
>
>That's it! Indignation rose up inside me. Normally reserved, pride in my husband gave me a brassy boldness I never realized I had. Tonight one voice will answer on behalf of our military, and let her pride in our troops be known.
>
>Sliding out of my booth, I walked around to the adjoining booth and placed my hands flat on their table. Lowering myself to eye level with them, I smilingly said, "I couldn't help overhearing your conversation.
>
>You see, I'm sitting here trying to enjoy my dinner alone. And, do you know why? Because my husband, whom I love with all my heart, is halfway around the world defending your right to say rotten things about him."
>
>"Yes, you have the right to your opinion, and what you think is none of my business. However, what you say in public is something else, and I will not sit by and listen to you ridicule MY country, MY president, MY husband, and all the other fine American men and women who put their lives on the line, just so you can have the "freedom" to complain. Freedom is an expensive commodity, ladies. Don't let your actions cheapen it."
>
>I must have been louder than I meant to be, because the manager came over to inquire if everything was all right. "Yes, thank you," I replied. Then turning back to the women, I said, "Enjoy the rest of your meal."
>
>As I returned to my booth applause broke out. I was embarrassed for making a scene, and went back to my half eaten steak. The women picked up their check and scurried away.
>
>After finishing my meal, and while waiting for my check, the manager returned with a huge apple cobbler ala mode. "Compliments of those soldiers", he said. He also smiled and said the ladies tried to pay for my dinner, but that another couple had beaten them to it. When I asked who, the manager said they had already left, but that the gentleman was a veteran, and wanted to take care of the wife of "one of our boys."
>
>With a lump in my throat, I gratefully turned to the soldiers and thanked them for the cobbler. Grinning from ear to ear, they came over and surrounded the booth. "We just wanted to thank you, ma'am. You know we can't get into confrontations with civilians, so we appreciate what you did."
>
>As I drove home, for the first time since my husband's deployment, I didn't feel quite so alone. My heart was filled with the warmth of the other diners who stopped by my table, to relate how they, too, were proud of my husband, and would keep him in their prayers. I knew their flags would fly a little higher the next day.
>
>Perhaps they would look for more tangible ways to show their pride in our country, and the military who protect her. And maybe, just maybe, the two women who were railing against our country, would pause for a minute to appreciate all the freedom America offers, and the price it pays to maintain it's freedom.
>
>As for me, I have learned that one voice CAN make a difference. Maybe the next time protesters gather outside the gates of the base where I live, I will proudly stand on the opposite side with a sign of my own. It will simply say, "Thank You!"
>
>(*Lori Kimble is a 31 year old teacher and proud military wife. A California native, Mrs. Kimble currently lives in Alabama)
>
>To those who fought for our Nation: Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know. GOD BLESS AMERICA! (This was included with the above email)
>
>
>When you receive this, please stop for a moment and say a prayer for our ground, air and navy personnel in every area of the middle east. There is nothing attached.... This can be very powerful....
>Of all the gifts you could give to anyone in the US Military, be it Air Force, Army, Navy, Marines or National Guard, Prayer is the very best one.....Amen!



You cannot do a kindness too soon, as you never know how soon it will be too late... Ralph Waldo Emerson



Well, as I was reading this I told him about all the family I have had that has served in all branches of the military and he proceded to respond "THEN WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM THEN !?!?!?!??!?!"

and he logged off.



Hmmmmmmmmmmmm......


any suggestions?

[slinkerwink]

1. bring up the quotes about jingoism, and the founding fathers beliefs that

dissent is important to democracy.

[WLKjr]

54. Enlighten me

What in the hell is Jingoism? I have never heard of that before....

[goodhue]

57. Jingoism is

extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism.

[WLKjr]

59. Kewl,

you learn something new everyday! Thanks goodhue I will add that to my vocabulary while arguing with him next time now that I know what it means!

[lastliberalintexas]

73. And while you are at it

Be sure and explain to him the difference between patriotism and nationalism. I am going to make you look them up, so you'll learn it on your own. ;-)

Just understand that nationalism is what propelled Hitler into power.

[WLKjr]

75. Danke!

für den Eingang auf dem Nationalismus dachte ich daran gerade selbst, und wie es Hitler antrieb, um anzutreiben und es mit jetzt zu vergleichen. Geschichte wiederholt sich wirklich.

Ich werde es nachschlagen, sobald ich diese Übersetzung beende. Sieg Heil!
Verwandelt sich die Regierung in den Nazi?


lol, I'm trying to learn German.

[Walt Starr]

2. It cannot be independently verified

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/speakup.asp

Without the ability to indepndently verify the veracity of the story, it must be considered a myth by definition.

[CO Liberal]

30. I Did a Search on "Lori Kimble" on Google...

...and found the following. Apparantly, she writes for something called the Washington Dispatch.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/l/lorikimble.htm

[CO Liberal]

32. About the Washington Dispatch

I went to their web site, and they are selling George W. Bush playing cards - "52 reasons to re-elect" the Moron in Chief.

It can hardly be considered an impartial source.

[Walt Starr]

34. She exists. She wrote the thing

but the incident described in the thing cannot be independently verified, ergo, it remains a myth.

[progressivebydesign]

46. And the Dispatch has removed that article of hers..

.. because she refuses to respond when asked for verification. I don't think she's writing for them anymore...

[CO Liberal]

53. Sounds Like She Could Get a Job Working for John Lott/Mary Rosh

Lott/Rosh has verification problems, too.

:-)

[LincolnMcGrath]

81. The Truth

The Truth
Lori Kimble, the writer of the article, is a frequent contributor of commentaries for the Washington Dispatch.
This particular commentary was published in April of 2003.

Last updated 8/18/03.

[CO Liberal]

86. The REAL Truth

From the Snopes Web Site (http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/speakup.asp):

As we explained in a previous version of this page, we could verify only that Lori Kimble is a real person, that she is the author of this piece, and that she asserts it is based upon a real incident. The article contains no details by which it can be independently verified, and our attempts to elicit more information from the author about when and where the events described took place received no response. We note now that the publishers have removed the article from the Washington Dispatch's web site because they, too, have been unable to verify its truthfulness and have been unable to obtain more information from its author:

This article as been removed from the archives as questions have arisen regarding its validity. The author has been contacted on numerous occasions but has refused to provide any material that could resolve the issue

Last updated: 22 January 2004

[WLKjr]

87. I finally sent the link

back to him with no other message attached. I am just waiting on what he has to send back to me......

[LincolnMcGrath]

92. is a frequent contributor of commentaries for the Washington....

I was just showing that she was no amatuer. :hippie:

[Jacobin]

3. Those who elevate flag waving loyalty over

thoughtful policy are the bane of this country.

If they enjoy getting all gushy-eyed and smarmy over this woman's offence, they'll also enjoy Toby Keith, Pat Boone and George Fucking Bush.

What can you do about it?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. Yup.

Get new friends. Failing that, this is nothing but right-wing-generated, boiler-plate piffle. Without wasting my time to do any research on this, I can assure you that my confidence is high that this is fiction.

There are literally hundreds of these things that get passed around by email, every day. I cannot remember the last time I heard that one of them was objectively true.

They are designed to arouse the frother base. Nothing more.

[molly]

5. This is an old one

tell your friend to turn on C-Span and watch asscrack say that the administration can do anything they damn well please.

[seabeyond]

6. the really sad in this email

what the people were saying was in truth of this war,.........how astute. and of course the woman whos husband is away was saddened and disgusted with what she heard, we can all empathize. isnt that odd how to sides could be just right. the flip side of this, it is that womans husband that pains me so with what bush did. and the family, the wives adn the children and the mothers and fathers.........who are being used, and fed falsehoods and blind patriotism

[Lars39]

7. Snopes, and newspaper unable to verify.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/speakup.asp

[teryang]

8. Cry me a river

To the purported author:

Tell it to the preacher. Maybe he'll appreciate your need to prevaricate. Every hackneyed cliche in the book including the indispensible "baby killer" label to stigmatize critics of a woefully corrupt and stupid foreign policy.

[mr_hat]

9. Snopes it. "Unverifiable" >

We note now that the publishers have removed the article from the Washington Dispatch's web site because they, too, have been unable to verify its truthfulness and have been unable to obtain more information from its author:

This article as been removed from the archives as questions have arisen regarding its validity. The author has been contacted on numerous occasions but has refused to provide any material that could resolve the issue.

http://snopes.com/politics/war/speakup.asp

[wysimdnwyg]

10. Step one...

review this: http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/speakup.asp

While it's unclear if the story is true or not, the author's unwillingness to confirm any details is a bit telling.

[tom_paine]

33. So Lori is a Real Freeper Liar then

Of course she made it up. Taht's what your Bushevik Propagandists do, knowing their audience is to gullible to fact-check them.

Standard Imperial Propaganda Practice. A fabrication like a Lying Soviet Fabrication.

Why is it the Busheviks are so similar to the Commies they supposedly hate?

[msmcghee]

50. to= preposition, too = modifier n/t

[Killarney]

11. Load of Bullcrap

This was originally published by the Washington Dispatch. If you go to their website now, it's gone and instead there is the following message:

This article as been removed from the archives as questions have arisen regarding its validity. The author has been contacted on numerous occasions but has refused to provide any material that could resolve the issue.

(I got the above info from snopes).

[tom_paine]

12. I seriously doubt Lori Kimble exists, or if that ever happened

Considering all the NUMEROUS times the Bushevik Lying Misattributed Blast E-Mails have been exposed.

I wish I could believe it, as it is an interesting story, but that would be like believeing the Letters to the Editor in 1977 Soviet Pravda.

I have spoken thusly in many a restaurant and public gathering. I would LOVE for such a thing to happen to me.

[Walt Starr]

15. She exists, Snopes verified that

they cannot, however, verify the veracity of the claims made in the email.

[tom_paine]

38. Yes, I saw that. See my post below, Walt.

[Cocoa]

13. Lori Kimble is not a woman

she's a flabby white male propagandist, probably just out of college, working in the bowels of a RW think tank.

[Cheswick2.0]

14. first of all this was not written by some school teacher

It is the kind of ham handed spam writen by people with nothing better to do than work as propagandists for the right.

This is what you should do... tell your friend he is a narrow minded idiot, that the soldiers in Iraq are not protecting our freedom because we weren't in any danger. Tell him you want nothing more to do with him. Then get smarter friends.

[Kukesa]

67. Thanks, Cheswick.

Last night I got an email from a "friend" -- the one about Worst President Ever. I was furious and wish I had told her exactly what you suggest in your post. Instead I suggested she Google the phrase and then I ranted for a bit.

I'm all for plagiarism and am going to use your words the next time one of those RW "friends" of mine sends me more garbage. I'm also going to find smarter friends.

I appreciate the pep talk.

[WLKjr]

70. what was that one about?

I haven't seen that one, could you possibly forward it to me or pm it to me?

[WLKjr]

16. Kick

n/t

[Cheswick2.0]

19. that's all you have to say? Kick?

After all these responses? Kick?

[WLKjr]

20. Maybe I should have said I should

Kick his :dem:, lol for calling me an ungratefull amurican because I dont like bush and his war.

I want to hear a lot of responses I guess before I send anything back at him.

[Cheswick2.0]

17. Oh gag me

My heart was filled with the warmth of the other diners who stopped by my table, to relate how they, too, were proud of my husband, and would keep him in their prayers. I knew their flags would fly a little higher the next day.


LOL

[redqueen]

18. What can be said?

Obviously those with family members serving are sensitive about what's being done to their loved ones. Many don't want to acknowledge that their relatives are being used as cannon fodder for absolutely no good reason. However, many are also very upset at the way the usurper boy and his evil gang have treated them.

I find this particularly offensive, because the author is saying that the people serving in Iraq are doing so for 'our freedom', which only the basest morons could still believe. The FACT is that Iraq was a threat to THE MIDDLE EAST, and we could have dealt with that threat in a responsible manner.

Sending troops off to die for a THREAT TO THE MIDDLE EAST was stupid and wrong.

It's sad that so many Americans are so ignorant, gullible, and thoughtless as to put any stock whatsoever in this kind of crap.

[kaitykaity]

21. Body armor . . . armored Humvees . . .

BULLETS!!! . . . Hot meals . . . 1 year tours . . . good
medical benefits . . .

The list is so long of the ways Bush is screwing the
troops in favor of the military contractors. If this
person wasn't a flag-waving moran who put party over
country, he'd care about things like that.

(That help?)

[Vickers]

22. A *friend* responded "THEN WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM THEN !?!?!?!??"

That ain't no friend, buddy, that's an ignorant pudknocker.

Hope this helps.

[WLKjr]

25. I have know the guy for a few years

even though he gets pissy and calls me the angry libral(as you can see it's very much the opposite, :) )We still work on computer stuff all the time because we are still geeks at heart. I try not to alienate friends just over thier political beliefs.

[Vickers]

27. That's not an expression of political beliefs, that's an outburst

of profane disrespect.

I have some RW friends. If they blew up at me like that, I'd lay 'em out.

[WLKjr]

31. lol, I know

I love it when he does that to me cuz he is red in the face while he is calling me an angry libral, I should take a picture of him to show him who is realling angry while I'm LMAO!


I did shut him up once when I confronted his lie about the pledge. He REALLY genuwinally didn't know that the 'Undger God' part was added during the red scare of the 50's to seperate us from the communists. He thought I was lieing to him till I sent him a dozen or so links for him to read. I haven't heard much about it since.

[tandot]

39. A friend is someone who respects YOUR political beliefs

and doesn't push all that right-wing propaganda bull-shit on you.

Ask him for FACTS and not some emotional made-up fiction. What positive has Bush done in the last 4 years?

Why is it that some liberals take all that right-wing propaganda sent to them without fighting back?

[progressivebydesign]

44. I appreciate your openmindedness.. but..

There's a difference between having differing beliefs, and allowing someone to berate you like that. I can only imagine you are saying the same things to him? Because.. otherwise, you're allowing that guy to abuse you.

[WLKjr]

56. Oh I hit him hard with facts

he gets so frustrated and then breaks out the favorite phrase, "you damn liberals are phucking up America!"

I just sit back and laugh and continue to pummel him with facts and questioning his beliefs.

[LoZoccolo]

62. I find if you laugh...

...or just call them on their bullshit their front doesn't last too long. They say this stuff cuz they want you to shrink and when you don't, they don't know what to do.

[wabeewoman]

23. The key here, IMHO

is letting your friend know you empathize with the feelings of that woman. Her husband is risking his life to go fight in the 'war', she is scared he might die and for her to admit it might not be for a good reason means admitting he could die for nothing. She has to defend the cause for her own sanity. The problem with the email is that it appeals to people's emotion and sucks them in to agreeing with the politics in sympathy for the woman. It works to say, you know, I'm sorry for that womans pain and I fully support her husband defending our country. He is a true patriot but you know, he is risking his life because his president is a money grubbing, corporate whore who has failed at everything he has ever done. Well, you might put that more tactfully but you know what to say there. Finding common group upon which to agree often diffuses an argument. I just found out my 82 year old father-in-law won a bronze star in WWII. He never mentioned it. I am opposed to war and not a big fan of the military but I'm glad they are here when we do need them.

[Blue-Jay]

24. That email *DOES* make me think.

I think I'll have steak for dinner tonight.

[Qanisqineq]

26. I received this same email because I am a military wife

whose husband was in Iraq. I'll tell you the same thing I told the person that sent it to me:

Like this wife, I don't agree that the troops are "rapists" (ok, there are rotten apples in any bunch). However, I could never defend Bush. I attended anti-war rallies while my husband was in Iraq. You can support the troops without supporting the mission. While the conversation the "girls" in this story were having was over the top, I am sick of hearing military wives go on and on that you must support that asshole in the Oval Office or you are not supporting the troops. We are not fighting for our freedom in Iraq. Anyone that actually thinks Saddam had the power to take that away from us is delusional.

I'm a military wife, but I don't associate with other ones because most of the wives I know (NOT ALL) are just like the woman in this letter. The soldiers are often more reasonable than their wives.

[jdj]

36. I don't believe this was a real conversation.

This is post 9/11, not post Vietnam.

I find it interesting Bush just declared a national day of mourning for Reagan but hasn't said piss about the 800 plus dead soldiers.

My best friend in the service, ( I don't want to say what branch), said that every one in her unit knew this war is about oil before it even started. That's the problem with having poor people in the military, they know they are being screwed by the rich, hell every thing this admin. does is about getting richer, casualties be damned

[Qanisqineq]

49. I think it is BS, too

But it sounds like the emails I receive all the time from other military wives. They must have a database of words and phrases to use in all their stories to make it ultra sappy and "heart-wrenching".

My husband talked about when he first got back from Iraq (in late March) and the soldiers saw what was going on here, they were spending every day standing on desks and chairs yelling about how Bush has to go. Even some of the die-hard republican soldiers were saying they would not vote at all this year because they didn't want Bush again.

[jus_the_facts]

71. I hope those die hards will make sure there aren't *fabricated* votes...

....bein' made on their behalf this year because o'their party affiliation...there were waaaay too many questionable military votes in 2000 from overseas...as I recall!! x(

:hi:

[playahata1]

93. Question, T:

If not all military wives buy into the BS, why do many of them continue to cling to the belief that their husbands are "defending freedom"? Thanks.

[jdj]

28. Very crafty.

This is RW spin.

Portraying opposition to this oil war as opposition to the military.

This admin tried to pass pay cuts to the military the very night of the beginning of the war in Iraq, and democrats stopped them.

A gulf war veteran I used to work with, who always wore a desert storm cap, told me he was grateful to President Clinton for extending veterans benefits beyond the age of eligibility for medicare.

You could counter with anything from Military families Speak Out at mfso.org or [e-mail], which is the website bring home now, or soldiers for the truth at sftt.org. Hell even army times magazine has had anti Bush stuff lately, www.armytimes.com. This is probably the same deal that happened a while back where soldiers were asked to sign form letters that appeared in a number of papers and they got busted because the papers put the pieces together.

The GAO just found this admin in violation of propaganda laws with the "Karen Ryan" medicare commercial scandal. I guess these people are desperate. I used to have a pic of a woman holding up a sign that says "you killed my son", but I can't find it. If anyone could post it that would be the only response you would need.

[progressivebydesign]

29. That email is fake... IMHO.

One thing. It's written like a Barbara Cartland book. Too cheezy. "Smiling sadly". etc. Also, this woman had this encounter with these guys.. overhearing they while she ate.. YET she can recall every single sentence they said? Every one, word by word? This is the kind of cheezy email that gets sent to me all the time by people who don't know me very well. Lori Kimble may exist, and something similar might have happened.. but this email is either a fake or an embellishment. Notice how the people behind her managed to hit a variety of liberal talking points?

When I receive things like that.. I just ask the person to stop sending me things like that. I'm not sure how you got that email.. but if it's someone you associate with that sent it.. they're just looking to attack you. Ask them to stop. THen let it go.

[SuffragetteSal]

35. Appie pie, flags waving and ignorance...

thanks for sharing this email..I have long been off the email forward list of my RW relatives...but I am sure this one is going around as we speak.

Well...somebody gets an A for creative writing in their right wing rhetoric kindergarten class!

[FattyMcCraigs]

37. my .2 intercents

send him a couple links...

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=patriot

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=fanatic

...and explain to him that fighting to bring your troops home from a senseless conflict is more supportive than blindly following a moron off a cliff.

[redqueen]

47. Hi FattyMcCraigs!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[WLKjr]

58. Thanks for the links

and welcome to DU! :toast:

[progressivebydesign]

40. The paper she wrote it for removed it from their archives!

At the bottom of the SNOPES page.. it states that the Washington Dispatch, the paper for which this "schoolteacher" occasionally contributes stories has removed that piece from their archives. Here is the Dispatch's note:

"This article as been removed from the archives as questions have arisen regarding its validity. The author has been contacted on numerous occasions but has refused to provide any material that could resolve the issue"

The paper to which she contributed it, as well as Snopes were stonewalled when they asked for details about this incident. They contacted her directly and she would not respond. If this indeed happened, she would have been "PROUD" to tell the world where and when this happened. It's bullshit. She's a wannabe writer (and pretty cheezy one).

[Minstrel Boy]

41. Why post this?

Why, once again, are we seeing posted right-wing talking points, yelling "PLEASE READ!!!", without the original poster even bothering to try to rebut it?

Never mind. Rhetorical question.

[WLKjr]

51. I am collecting input on a rebuttal

sorry if I 'yelled' it please read. I am working on a rebuttal right now, just collecting info and web links to back it up.

[West Coast Democrat]

55. Ask him why he is sending you an email that is over a year old

and was debunked by Snopes ages ago.

[kcwayne]

42. The US is not fighting in Iraq to defend freedom of speech

nor is it fighting to save the American people or their democracy.
The problem with propaganda such as this is that the people that accept it as face value don't recognize it as such. There is nothing to "think" about here, the whole premise of the letter is to entice you to quit thinking and passing judgment on the political leadership.

As long as people swallow this emotional drooling about patriotism without questioning whether the leadership that is putting its citizens in harms way has done so due to clear and present danger, there will only be continuation of the need to have these stories. There will be more orphans, widows, and terrorists who have been given multitudes of reasons to strike back.

Welcome to 1939. Did the patriotic German citizens view themselves as liberators of Poland and then Czechoslovakia or occupiers? Why is it that Americans can watch German propaganda from that era (the Nuremberg rally, the Leni Riefenstahl films, et al) and recognize it as absurd propaganda, and not see material presented by its own government as the same vile stuff?

[WLKjr]

52. That's exactly what I am trying to find out

I have asked many people about this becuase, even as young as I may be(still in my teens) I paid attention in History Class and love to learn about the mistakes of old and apply them to how we can not recreate them again in this time.

[kcwayne]

64. I am not sure if my post was clear then

The Germans did not view themselves as illegitimate conquerers (at least the ones that swallowed the Nazi propaganda), they believed they were acting on sound principals of German national interest. Of course it was very dangerous to disagree with the government, it could land you in a concentration camp or put a bullet in your head.

Our politicians quiet dissent without the need to resort to such brutal measures. With control of the media, they can let people imprison themselves through their inability to use logic or remember history.

During WWI, the government passed the Sedition Act that allowed them to imprison people for thought crimes. During the McCarthy era people were hounded and blackmailed for their political opinions, irregardless of whether they were a threat to the stability of the government, and virtually none were. Joe McCarthy did not get a single conviction on his House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC).

There is an author named Dalton Trumbo who wrote an excellent anti-war novel called Johnny Got His Gun in 1939. Its point of reference was WWI. The book was taken out of circulation during WWII, and Trumbo became a prime target of the government. He was one of the Hollywood 10 targeted by the HUAC. His story is an interesting one for those that think that free speech exists in this country.

Now with ideologues like Ann Coulter fawning over Joe McCarthy as a "Great American" and wanting to resurrect this mandatory, non-thinking patriotism as the law of the land, one has to ask whether this would be a lot more fun if we all got to wear nifty uniforms with jackboots and crosses on the shoulders as we sing Onward Christian Soldiers while we patrol the streets looking for liberals and other undesirables.

[sadiesworld]

43. Apparently, ALL the troops now have kevlar vests...

and it sure isn't b/c Faux "News" made a stink about it.

[jmowreader]

45. There is a cottage industry cranking out right-wing e-mails

How to tell the difference between real leftists and right-wingers pretending to be leftists:

Leftists talk shit about George Bush.
Fake leftists talk shit about our soldiers.

Also note that after the "brave, outspoken patriot" in the e-mail says her piece, about six people jump to pay for her dinner, buy her dessert, pay her mortgage...that's almost proforma in these messages.

[comsymp]

76. Not just dessert, but Apple Pie (okay, cobbler, but still)

And of course everyone has to burst into applause at her actions, as she's naturally surrounded by Right-Thinking Patriotic Americans ™ , which usually causes the two Godless, America-hating Turrist Sympathizers to "scurry" out.

[West Coast Democrat]

48. This one is STILL going around?

Wasn't this out there about a year ago?

[WLKjr]

60. I have another question

Are there any Liberal chain mails going around, ones that are TRUE and backed up with FACTS??? I would love to send one his way.

[LoZoccolo]

61. Your friend is just being manipulative.

And this feigned outrage he's showing will shrivel up within a minute of you showing that you think it's bullshit which is probably why he ran away.

[HarveyBriggs]

63. WTF is my problem?

My problem is George Bush and the greatest military money can buy was asleep at wheel on 9/11; the worst military failure in American history.

Terrorists understand weakness and attack it. And in Bush they saw the weakest American president in history and attacked.

Thousands died because of weakness and complacency at the top of our defense system and sloth within the rank and file -- all bourne by this ridiculous sense of prveledge and entitlement.

I'd be a more grateful if the World Trade Towers were still standing, but they are not.

At last count more American civilians have died at the hands of terrorists than have American military personnel. So what is there to be grateful about?

The terrorsts can attack me at will; John Ashcroft and Tom Ridge constantly remind me of that. They believe they can collect votes when the terror alerts are at their highest. I prefer a leader who can drive those alerts to their lowest. I support John Kerry.

I have family in the military, too. They aren't snivveling whiners like your friend. They don't expect a pat on the back -- especially not now. They execute their duties with dignity, grace and honor. But those kind of soldiers are not respected by Bush.

Bush intentionally discredits and dishonors military heroes like John McCain, Max Cleland and John Kerry. He prefers arrogance and cruelty in his soliders over strength and sense of duty.

The fact that this letter is circulating is evidence of rampant cowardice in the military and a wholesale lack of discipline within the ranks. We can all thank God that we didn't have to call on this Army of malcontents to invade Normandy. If we did, we'd all be goosestepping now.

If the people involved with our armed forces would spend less time whining, fewer resources attacking Americans, and more time attacking terrorists I'd feel a lot safer and a lot more grateful.

Soldiers are paid to fight, not attack civillians. How can I expect the military to fight for me at the front, when they attack me at home? If these are soldiers circulating this e-mail, they should be sought out, court martialed and dishonorably discharged.

Harvey Briggs

[Sparkly]

65. Propaganda equating anti-Bush with anti-military

Being anti-war is NOT necessarily being anti-military-personnel.

Being anti-Bush is NOT necessarily being anti-military-personnel.

And being pro-war and pro-Bush is NOT necessary being pro-military, at ALL. Quite the contrary!!! What does the Chimp know about the military? What does he know about combat? Nothing!

This makes me furious. Who the heck says things like "professional baby killers?" Nobody I've ever heard. This is all nonsense to villify the left by mixing up the equation, skewing the facts, playing on emotions and tricking people into believing up is down and black is white. Grrrr....

[styersc]

66. The repugs will tell you that we have a volunteer military....

When you join- you have to know that American's disagree and you will never fight in a war where your countrymen and women will all agree with the action. If you can't stand the idea of you or a family member serving a country that is strengthened by dissent and debate then you are going to have to go somehwere else to be a soldier.

I will not give up my God given right as an American because some military tart is just now finding out that her husband's military job means more then cheap groceries at the PX.

I pray for this woman's husband and all of our troops. I am doing the best that I can to get them home safely and quickly while battling the evil liar who sent them in to this dispicable mess for dishonest reasons.

[Ms. Clio]

68. Unmitigated bullshit

Someone's pathetic little fantasy about "telling off" the nasty liberals in public and getting applause from strangers.

Laugh at it and move on.

[Lastgasp]

69. I received this same e-mail several times . . .

This fraudulent story is one of the right-wing's favorite tools. Pay no attention to it.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

72. Replace President with Fuhrer and Country with Fatherland and it should be

pretty clear

[greekspeak]

74. Emotive, tear-jerking, manipulative schlock.

This story smacks of propegandistic fiction. It combines several warmonger one-liners, and sets up a straw man of evil liberal do-nothings. The story is full of schlock, to induce guilt and manipulate the emotions.

Had these names evil egghead liberal "straw-women" been real live breathing liberals, I somehow doubt they would have behaved the way they did. I doubt they would have called the troops "baby killers," and they certainly would not have just clammed up like shrinking violets.

Snopes...here Snopes...calling Snopes...

[BiggJawn]

77. "My husband is fighting for YOUR Freedom of speech...."

"...so SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!"

Is logical, no?

Ah, Patriotism, the "Last Refuge of the Scoundrel".....

[ieoeja]

78. You should AGREE with this email.

You should point out that, "this entire story hinges around some jerk referring to US military personnel as 'professional baby killers'. I applaud the heroine in this story for defending the reputations of the individuals serving in our military. Now ... what does that have to do with the fact that Bush's excuses for invading Iraq proved to be lies and that the invasion itself has accomplished nothing except to create more terrorists who don't fear military invasions because these people won't fight the military anyway, preferring to hide under women's skirts and strike at innocent civilians far away from active war zones? Pointing out that the President lied to the American public is NOT calling our troops baby killers. Pointing out that the President did something incredibly stupid is NOT calling our troops baby killers."

[WLKjr]

84. That's the best one I have heard yet

I might have to use some of this if thats alright with you....

[southlandshari]

79. I received a similar - but not the same - email

from a Republican friend as well, more than a week after the 5/22 on this message. Because the "story" was similar but details differed, I'm guessing this is more propaganda than truth.

There was no mention of the name of the "author" or her state of residence in the version I got (which had obviously been forwarded many, many times). I live in Alabama - I'm curious as to where "Lori Kimball" resides.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

80. Tell your GOP friend to stop sending SPAM to your inbox.

[hatrack]

82. Good God, is this tired old wheeze still plodding about the Net?

Sheez, folks, try and come up with some new material!

[Sparkly]

83. Somebody should rewrite this...

Change it to a woman whose father was killed in Vietnam, sent from Texas and perhaps taking the Chimp's place in combat; and/or her husband was killed on 9/11; and her son is in Iraq, and she's a liberal Democrat. At the table nearby, freepers are lauding the Chimp, calling Kerry, Cleland and Clark "opportunists," saying how important it was to go to Iraq because of WMDs or the "war on terror," claiming Democrats aren't patriotic or moral, etc. etc... I want to read about *that* woman telling *those* people off.

[WLKjr]

85. Ooooh Even better

never thought about doing that. Thanks for the idea!

[whosinpower]

88. Ask your friend to please explain

How the Iraq war protects American freedoms....and even a description of what freedom means.

To me - this is the gravest insult to the American Military. They are sworn to protect and uphold America...and yet this administration warped that to send these men off on a conquest.

I will not deny that many who join the military do so for uprighteous reasons - but this war exhibits none. There was no threat. I will repeat that - there was no threat. And in the absence of a real threat - this administration has attempted to use the reasoning that there MIGHT of been a threat in the future....such logic denies any moral standing and must be rejected. That is not to say we reject the US military and what it stands for, what it is SUPPOSED TO BE USED FOR. How can an illegal and immoral invasion and occupation protect America??? How can it protect the right for Americans to voice dissent??? How can it ensure American freedom however you define it?

[WLKjr]

89. Thanks for all the Input all!

Now could someone tell me how to bookmark and lock a thread?

[John_H]

90. If Lori Kimball is real, maybe she can explain

how her husband is over there protecting our freedom of speech. Was Saddm going to come over here and personally delete the first amendment? If so he could have saved himself a trip. Ashcroft is perfectly willing and able to do it himself.

[Kilroy003]

91. She will change her tune when

her loving husband has to chose between torturing civilians or being locked up in a military hospital for three weeks. Maybe then the Veterans who bought her meal and apple cobbler will pick up the $6000 medical bill for him as well.