My uneasiness about Clark

[Minstrel Boy]

Though it's not really about Clark. I don’t know enough about him. My problem is more generalized than with this particular General. It's just I get a bit antsy at the sight of senior military figures crossing over into the political realm to campaign for high office.

Am I wrong, or just Canadian, to be squeamish about this? Quite possibly, my reticence might be just a cultural thing, because it would be a very strange thing to see up here. And I know there are solid precedents in the US, and Eisenhower proved to be an able civilian leader.

But the thing is, American culture in the Bush years is already dangerously militarized. The prospect of a general in the White House at this time in US history, regardless of party affiliation, doesn't strike me as a good corrective.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

1. The President is Commander-in-Chief of the military

You can't really have it both ways can you? I'd prefer a normal working class American who did well for himself, so if we have to choose between born-into-wealth aristocrats like Dean, John Forbes-Kerry, Graham, etc, why not a military general who started middle class and worked his way up? Fine by me.

Now, what concerns me about Clark is his Wall Street pedigree - exactly what does he have in store for our economy? If he starts preaching privatization or outsourcing, no way I'll vote for him.

[bryant69]

2. I think it depends on the general

American society has always had a military and hence has always had career officers. I don't see any sense in cutting that segment off from public service once they have already served (it would be inappropriate to seek office while still in uniform).

The military is made up of guys who put the welfare of the country first, to a certain extent. That doesn't mean that we need to always go along with them (The military often has a certain way of looking at the world that doesn't fit every situation), but if Clark posesses the other skills and holds correct positions--I think his military service becomes a positive rather than a negative.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[JNelson6563]

3. considering it was a General who warned

us to beware the military industrial complex, and since Clark's not a PNACer, he doens't worry me in that way.

I'd love to see a Dean/Clark ticket!

Julie

[wndycty]

4. Would you rather have . . .

A chickenhawk who has no respect or understanding for the realities of war and is quick to go to battle (Bush)

or

A decorated military man, who has seen war and understands its realities and believes in war ONLY as a last resort (Clark)

THINK ABOUT IT

[wndycty]

5. Not to mention that

Clark is very well versed in domestic issues and judging from his quotes in numerous interviews he is pretty progressive on the bedrock Democratic issues:

Pro-choice

Supports Affirmative Action

Against the Bush tax cuts

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

6. exactly!

very good point

[molly]

7. Clark is brilliant! BTW - he's a southern boy

"General Clark is a 1966 graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, where he graduated first in his class. He holds a master's degree in Philosophy, Politics and Economics from Oxford University where he studied as a Rhodes Scholar (August 1966-August 1968). He is a graduate of the National War College, Command and General Staff College, Armor Officer Advanced and Basic Courses, and Ranger and Airborne schools. General Clark was a White House Fellow in 1975-1976 and served as a Special Assistant to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget. He has also served as an instructor and later Assistant Professor of Social Science at the United States Military Academy.

Among his military decorations are the Defense Distinguished Service Medal (three awards), Distinguished Service Medal, Silver Star, Legion of Merit (four awards), Bronze Star Medal (two awards), Purple Heart, Meritorious Service Medal (two awards), and the Army Commendation Medal (two awards).

General Clark was born on 23 December 1944 and grew up in Little Rock, Arkansas. He is married to the former Gertrude Kingston of Brooklyn, New York. He and his wife have one son, Wesley, who lives in California.

http://www.nato.int/cv/saceur/clark.htm

[wndycty]

8. The more people learn about and see Clark

The more popular he becomes. . .America wants a president like this!

[Loonman]

9. Military bias?

Like a shithead civilian like Boosh is any better?

The benefit of having military men in political office is that they have a unique perspective on war and warfare and would be more circumspect in committing armed forces to problem areas.

[wndycty]

10. I could not agree more. . .

. . .and I also don't understand how people can ignore the fact that we are talking about electability here. Clark has the military background necessary to defeat Bush.

[Trajan]

11. I have ONE problem with Clark .....

He isnt running .....

The man HAS to commit to his own candidacy, or we cant vote for him ....

[wndycty]

13. Clinton did not announce until October!!!

So Clark is ahead of him in that respect.

Some other useless Clinton Clark connection

Both From Arkansas

Both Rhodes Scholars

Both very similar initials

Clinton WJC
Clark WKC
(when you think it about K is next J in the alphabet)

Boy Clark does need to announce soon I obviously have too much time on my hands.

[Kat45]

25. That connection wouldn't be useless to the repukes

They'd find a way to use it to trash him for his similarities to the hated Clinton.

[Kahuna]

28. Repuke spinmeister on Capital Report last night said...

Clark has a distinguished military career but he can't realistically run a campaign now. He's a year to late. Yeah right Charlie. When I want advice I'll ask a friend.

[Born_a_Democrat]

12. I don't think it's necessarily bad

I mean look: The people at the Pentagon and the CIA got along better with Clinton then they initially did with Bush (at least until he replaced everyone that disagreed)....they still secretly disagree...

Clark and Clinton agree on many things...I think he may be a good choice...maybe even a good VP choice if he doesn't get nominated.

[RichM]

14. You have to understand that Democrats are very confused. They don't

know who they are or what they stand for, so they are casting about for an identity. They would be happy to run Norman Schwarzkopf or Mickey Mouse for president, if they thought either could win. This flirtation with Clark is like a teenager experimenting with possible identities & personality transformations. He stands in front of a mirror, and thinks, "Well, I'm kind of wimpy. My friends are laughing at me behind my back. So I'll show 'em: from now on, I'll swagger around a lot, & say tough-sounding things!! Then they'll all respect me again!"

[Kahuna]

29. Who do you support Rich? Tell us so that..

we can make fun of you.

[tjdee]

15. He is also a CEO with a Master's in POLITICS, economics, and philosophy..

The military is his chosen career, but it's not like the rest of his brain is empty. He currently is the CEO of his consulting firm, and his masters is in politics, economics, and philosophy.

You know, this whole "ooh, he's a general, generals like to kill babies and eat them" thing is almost as bad as "we need Clark because he's a military guy and all Americans have no brains and need to see a military guy".

Is he a good candidate? We don't know yet. But a knee jerk reaction to him because of his career is just that.

[tameszu]

16. I don't know if it's the Canadian thing

because I'm one, and Clark's background here doesn't bother me at all.

And I'd like to think that I'm pretty liberal.

Right now we have a bunch of civilians who don't respect the line betweeen the civilian and the military world. Everything Clark has said indicates that his background makes him more, not less, respectful of that line. I think that's why I'm OK with him.

[mdmc]

17. I don't think that the USA needs a military ruler

:dem:

[tameszu]

18. I don't think the U.S. needs a ruler at all!

A democratically elected and accountable leader would be nice, though, whatever his background!

[wndycty]

19. Mdmc: You must be a Bush fan. . .

...because a democratically elected president is not a ruler. . .now Bush thinks he is a ruler.

[Kahuna]

30. He's retired. So how would that make him a "military ruler???"

:eyes: Do you think he's going to run around in fatigues like Castro???????? I don't.

[LEFTofLEFT]

20. MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX

I don't like the idea of Clark as our choice.

[MattNC]

22. yet

you mention the MIC, which of course was warned against by a former General.

[IranianDemocrat]

26. So no Military people can be liberal?

:wtf:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

27. i get quesy thinking that Clark could be the icing...

on the "military industrial complex" cake that ike warned against :shrug:

[Kahuna]

32. Why would he be? At least give us a good reason since you keep

bringing it up.

[Kahuna]

31. It was a general who warned you! My goodness!

When has a president who has been a president take advantage of the office to invest in and build up the military.

I think you missed the point of Ike's admonition.

[11cents]

21. In the US, "militarism" does not come from the military

... it comes from chickenhawks, armchair generals, and wannabes.

This is just a fact about the US right now. The military was not pushing for the war in Iraq, and ex-military people like Clark and Zinni raised some of the most articulate objections to the war before it was launched.

Clark himself has made some very interesting points about how the advent of the volunteer military has led to Americans developing an idealized image of the armed forces as the last bastion of character and selfless dedication, even as fewer and fewer of us have a direct connection to someone in the service. He's also spoken on issues of civil liberties and constitutional legitimacy, and I think the fact that he has a military background will give his statements in these areas more force and weight. He seems to have a sophisticated awareness of these questions, as one would hope to be the case of someone with his background and education. The US military should be neither idolized nor demonized. A West Point graduate ain't "Buck Turgidson" from Dr. Strangelove.

[Trajan]

24. Well spoken ....

The "Militarism" we see in todays WH is the extension of their particularly virulent Pro-Straussian philosophy ....

Those within the professional military ranks are just as appalled by this PNAC government as we are: ..... Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz and their ilk have been gesturing towards the door, prodding the old timers to leave, because it is THEY who expect the civilian government to express a rational internationalist worldview ....

The current objective of the PNAC is to replace ALL reticent personnel with compliant yes-men: ..... We see it at CIA, replaced with the OSP .... We see it in the Pentagon, with the retirements of hundreds of middle level careerists, .... and we see it at the Department of State, with the constant haranguing of Powell and his crew by the AEI/PNAC types .... including especially Gingrich, Perle, and Feith ....

The US Military is in itself beholden to the common traditions of the democratic state and its modern internationalist mindset: ... these 'militaristic' empire-builders from the PNAC give them the creeps to ...

[poskonig]

23. Clark is as liberal as Dean on foreign policy.

You don't have much to worry about in that respect with Clark. AWOL boy, in contrast.......