Bias and ignorance by DUers against fellow DUers

[iconoclastic cat]

Not to be a pill, but I have been following a thread over the past couple of days regarding a group calling themselves "Christian Exodus." This group advocates moving to South Carolina and seceding from the US. The thread was pretty funny at first, but I re-read the whole thing just now, and I noticed something quite disturbing: many of us--the netziens of DU--are capable of verbally attacking one another's communities based not on any actual experience, but on meme-borne stereotypes. While I do not want to alienate specific people, I suggest that everyone take a look at what is being said here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x614362

By the way, I include myself in this: in the thread, you will notice that I appeared ready to accept the total separation of a very large group of people--in a way, to excise them from my reality. Why did I respond this way? I have never been to South Carolina, and I have many friends from the South--why would I thoughtlessly lump them together and gleefully offer to expel them? This issue is very disturbing to me, because I am always on guard against making generalizations or acting out of bias.

I am not sure what I expect all of you to do in response to this. I would simply like to suggest that one of the most essential traits of the social progressive is the recognition and repair of one's own bias.

To my sisters and brothers in the South and in SC: I don't want you walled out. What I want walled out is arrogance, ignorance, and bigotry--including my own.

[freetobegay]

1. There are some here if you don't agree with them 100%

1. You are a freeper.

2. You are stupid & don't know what your talking about.

As a Gay man I have been called a freeper on numerous occasions with subtle hints. Some people just don't know that some here can think on their own.

[iconoclastic cat]

2. Yep, that would be one scenario.

I've come across that sort of militancy. Who needs DeLay when we have each other?

[Catherine Vincent]

3. You should realize that most poster post things and they really

don't mean it. You shouldn't take it so serious. It's only a message board.

[iconoclastic cat]

7. I do take things too seriously on occasion

I just felt a bit disgusted with myself.

[ArkDem]

23. You have one of the best senses of humor on the board!

:toast:

[iconoclastic cat]

24. Thanks, ArkDem!

I haven't seen you around much lately! I need to become a donor so that I can use the "search" function.
on edit: So that I can search for my buds, I mean.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

4. Taking things said by fellow DUers FAR too seriously

Relax dude. It's just a stupid internet forum. Unless someone's advocating serious and direct harm to a group of individuals, relax. For the love of Christ, not everything in life should be taken as life or death.

[QC]

5. This stuff is common here at DU.

There are certain prejudices that are not only acceptable here, but even considered a sign of one's worthiness as a good liberal. You have found the most popular one, but there are others, too.

We expect more from our own side, which makes it frustrating to see so many people who are willing to be the mirror image of freepers. And it's bad politics, too--if we restrict our efforts to the "pure" then we'll never win another election. But for some people, politics is not about winning elections and getting things done. Instead, it's about the pleasures of moral posturing and melodramatic outrage. You'll find that those people are the ones most inclined to engage in the stereotyping.

[Ripley]

6. The discrimination against the South is allowed at DU.

Your posts will be deleted if you stereotype gays, blacks and a few other things. But not so with the South. That region is attacked with ignorant stereotypes by people who not only have never been to the region, but those who are afraid to travel here.

Ignorance breeds hatred.

[freetobegay]

10. I was born in the South raised in the South & still live in the South

"Ignorance breeds hatred." I'll agree with that!

[Cannikin]

8. You're new. Dont worry about it. We've survived much worse.

All opinions are welcome.

[elperromagico]

9. My only reaction to the "Christian Exodus" idea is,

"Didn't South Carolina get the message the last time they tried to secede from the Union?"

No stereotypes there, I hope. Just a bit of history.

[QC]

11. It's not South Carolina that's discussing secession.

It's a small group of nutcases in Tyler, Texas, discussing taking over South Carolina and seceding.

And, for some bizarre reason, this small group of nutcases is being taken a lot more seriously than they deserve at DU.

[elperromagico]

14. Still, it would be SC seceding.

If you'll recall, it was SC that started the whole secession fad 144 years ago.

No, I'm sure that the likelihood of this happening is slim to none. But looking at the red/blue map from 2000, one can't help but think of the Civil War divisions.

If this country were to split in two, I'd feel sorry for poor New Mexico and New Hampshire... :P

[quinnox]

12. This is normal for DU

Another example is anyone who doesn't follow the atheist philosophy is regularily lampooned here.

And as another pointed out, there are some that if you don't agree with them then you must be a republican or a traitorous democrat.

Unfortunately, DU has its fair share of narrow-minded ignorant people, just like other forums.

[librechik]

13. entertainment!

not your real life. Put that thread on ignore if you don't like it, or critique it here as you have done so capably. I agree that the spectacle of tolerated hate is appalling. We have only our words to fight against it, when we can. Tolerating and accepting are two different things. At DU we tolerate strong adult language and opinions, but we do not accept hate (see the rules on posting)

It's good to bring the mod into the discussion if you have a problem by punching alert. Your issues can then be addressed directly (I'm assuming--I haven't had a problem that went that far, although I have alerted a time or three to complain about trolls)

I truly understand what you mean about those loathsome threads. They happen and are instructive indeed.

People! What a catastrophe!

I love DU!

[Misunderestimator]

15. I beg to differ with the responses that say this is "Just" an internet...

discussion board. This is an internet discussion board for progressives and liberals, and therefore is a place where I would think we would want to educate eachother. Any kind of bias against any group... racial, geographical, national... SHOULD be discouraged. Not silenced, but discouraged. Discouraged by educating those of us who maintain such prejudice. Having grown up in Texas, I had my own bias against the south that took many years to overcome. There are good people everywhere and there are bad people everywhere.

I'm pleased that most of the people here tend to the non-biased side, but I still see too much evidence of bigotry and ignorance... and I wouldn't ever ignore it.

[carolinayellowdog]

16. Scapegoating and the fallacy of misplaced concreteness

Hey,

South-bashing here used to upset me tremendously, until I realized that anyone who engages in such hatemongering is scapegoating and engaging in a logical fallacy.

The scapegoating enables the sins of the nation to be cleansed through the expulsion of a symbolic substitute for the actual guilty parties. Thus, rather than acknowledging that racists, fundamentalists, etc. etc. are found all over the country-- as are liberals and progressives-- the scapegoater indulges in fantasies about getting rid of all the Southerners. Everything would be great if only we didn't have those OTHERS in OUR country. Tennessee and Minnesota both gave 48% of their votes in 2000 to Al Gore. Yet, since Tennessee is southern and Minnesota is northern, Tennesseans are fair game for the "I wish we'd gotten rid of you for good in 1861" treatment whereas no one ever says anything rude about the Midwest/Great Plains, even the solidly Republican states.

This scapegoating requires a logical fallacy first identified by Alfred North Whitehead, described here:
http://websyte.com/alan/termin.htm

relevant excerpt:

Misplaced Concreteness
In criticizing the work of previous thinkers, Whitehead points to a persistent tendency on the part of many to perpetrate the Fallacy of Misplaced Concreteness. This, as the title indicates, consists in mistaking the abstract for the concrete. More specifically it involves setting up distinctions which disregard the genuine interconnections of things.
snip

(C) A third general illustration of the fallacy of Misplaced Concreteness is the Substance-Quality concept. This is the notion that each real entity is absolutely separate and distinct from every other real entity, and that the qualities of each have no essential relation to the qualities of others.

As has been said, Whitehead objects to these three variations of the Fallacy of Misplaced Concreteness because they involve a "break up" of the real continuity of experience.

END QUOTE

Tens of millions of distinct individuals are lumped together under the label "Southerner" which is then treated as a concrete entity (rather than the abstraction it is) with qualities absolutely separate and distinct from the other concrete entity "Northerner."
This is way too stupid to get worked up over. Here's an example that is more obviously stupid but logically identical: men vote Republican, women vote Democratic, therefore let's get rid of all the men.

CYD

[Misunderestimator]

17. Ha.... Good Analogy, carolinayellowdog! n/t

[trof]

19. Yeah. What he said.

:-)

[trof]

18. Well, y'all can just kiss my Alabama...

No, wait...that was another thread.
Sorry.
nevermind
;-)

[AntiCoup2K4]

20. Why South Carolina? Wouldn't Florida make more sense?

That way it would be easier to fence em in. And they can keep Jeb.

[jukes]

21. i'm unclear on your msg.

my 1st read suggested that you thought DUers were squabbling amongst themselves; i reread all the posts (& i'm guilty of a harsh 1) & found nothing accept some good-humoured jibes @ ea other, nothing mean or vicious.

perhaps you mean we shdnt be "bigoted" towards fundamentalist xians. i will repeat: i despise them. this isn't prejudice, it's judgement. they are very bad people who intend all of us here on DU personal harm. & i don't mean they wish it, their stated intent is to eradicate or re-educate (indoctrinate) us.

clarification: i am an atheist & feel that all religious people are deluding themselves. i don't care about NORMAL people living out some fantasy to enrich or stabilize their lives. normal xians, & there are many on this board, i am not offended by, nor do i wish to purposely offend them. that thread was about fundies, people who "fundamentally" believe that the bible is the literal truth & fervently desire to quash individual thought. especially scientific thought. they want the entire world to revolve around their belief system, & respect no other beliefs. they have caused enormous suffering in the past, & will continue to be a danger to the world.

i don't think many responding to that post actually believes that they can or will tear our nation literally apart again, & set up a new Confederacy. i believe they might, but truly fear their greater threat is to gain control of our entire country & force their repugnant & horrid beliefs upon us all as the law of the land. they may very well have already done so.

the 2000 election was a coupe; & i'm not altogether sure the faithful will relinquish control even if bush is defeated in november.

as always, if i've misunderstood you, i'm sorry & beg clarification.

& yes, there is often some ugly squabbling amongst our members. i try to be as polite as possible to other members, even if i disagree w/ them completely. we are discussing deep issues, that many of us wd stake our very lives upon. deep issues often cause hurt feelings. just hope we can all "stay the course" & roust this bunch of gangsters that have stolen our country.

[iconoclastic cat]

22. Jukes: Yeah, I meant DUers attacking each other

But I also was attempting to call attention to the way language was being used carelessly.

[Blue Wally]

25. In my short time here:

Bigotry and repugnance is frequently (and freely) spoken by a large group of the contributors towards:

Trailer park trash

Rednecks

Sheeple (i.e. voters who vote against us)

Christians (and not just fundamentalist Christians)

Zell Miller

People, if we keep voting people "off the island" we will be a minority party forever.

[iconoclastic cat]

26. Yep. You said it. Foot-shooters.

So, a pirate walks into a bar with a large, wooden steering wheel bound to his crotch with several yards of whaling line.

"Wow!" says the bartender, wincing. "That's gotta hurt!"

"Yar!" says the pirate. "It's drivin' me nuts!"