The fired DU'er should....

[Pab Sungenis]

...take the opportunity to sue FreeRepublic.com for slander, and loss of wages.

You should end up OWNING that site, its servers, and everything in its' owners' homes.

[molly]

1. Tell him

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1770898

[tom_paine]

2. Sounds good, though I wonder if there is any legal grounds for it?

Any DU lawyers having a thought?

My guess is no. In the end, Lane only posted essentially what misanthrope said, I think.

But I'm no lawyer.

[DoNotRefill]

7. I don't see a cause of action....

against FR or the employer.

It ain't slander or libel if it's true. The employer contacted misanthrope and asked him if he'd been posting to DU, and misanthrope said "yes".

Misanthrope's firing can't be seen as illegal retribution unless there are other things going on that we don't know about. The station can fire people for any or no reason, unless the reason is one that it's illegal to fire people for, and that doesn't seem to be the case.

Of course, lots of people just "talk big" and scream "sue them!" for ANY or NO reason. But I see no viable cause of action.

[tom_paine]

14. I kind of thought that. It sounds good. That's about it. n/t

[texastoast]

18. Nothing civil?

Against the tattle-tale freeper personally for damages for lost wages, emotional distress, etc.? That's the one I would like to see fry. I don't know what the state's laws allow.

Yeah, freeper asshole, your karma is going to run over your dogma now.

[DoNotRefill]

28. Nope.

it's not generally actionable to get somebody fired if they fuck up. It's also very, very hard to recover damages if you hurt their feelings by telling the truth.

Think about it. If you go into a McDonalds, and the clerk spits in your face or food and you report it, why should you be liable? They're in the wrong, you're just reporting on it. And if telling people the truth if it hurts people's feelings is actionable, think of the fashion disasters that'll result. Would YOU tell your wife "yeah, those stripes make your ass look HUGE!" if you could be sued for it???

[texastoast]

38. LOL!

That's what I figured, but you said it so well!

[jayfish]

29. Do We Really Need To Have A Law That Forbids The Termination Of...

employment because of a persons thoughts? (I always thought that freedom of speech was guaranteed by the Constitution) Well if thats the case then lets just give up. The way it's going now the only entities in this country that will retain any rights are corporations. Is that what we are after? Good, lets have every company in America fire every one of it's employees and move all of their jobs overseas. It's within their rights, right?


Jay

[DoNotRefill]

35. Jay,

there's a HUGE difference between firing somebody because of what they're thinking, and firing somebody because they publicly announce that they want to disobey an employer's explicit instructions to make a political statement while performing their duties.

If I hire you to clean out toilets, and you decide that as a political statement you're going to trash the bathroom, I'm perfectly within my rights to fire you. Yes, you have a right to make political speech. But NOT during the time I'm paying you to work for me, and CERTAINLY not using MY resources to make your political statement when your position disagrees with mine.

I've been fired before for making political statements at work. Many moons ago, I was fired for wearing an "Eat McShit and Die" pin while working at McDonalds. Yeah, it sucked. But I knew what the result was going to be when I refused to take it off my uniform. Misanthrope knew what could happen by posting the information on the internet and admitted to his boss that he had in fact been posting on DU.

Free speech ain't free.

[jayfish]

39. Lets Have A Look Here.

You hit on a good point, he wanted to disobey. He did not disobey as he stated in a later thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1770898&mesg_id=1770898

Should I be fired from my job for posting in a anonymous forum that i don't want to go to work on Monday even though I am required to do so and don't have any personal or vacation days left to take the day off? Or should I be fired for the act of not showing up at work on Monday even though I have no time off available?

Your second point is just a bad analogy. On your third point... ya you deserved to be fired, but I admire you for it. :evilgrin: As for the overall point that there seems to be no basis in current law to win a suit, I say good. Laws are made an broken every day in the courts. It's time to make some new ones.

Jay

[DoNotRefill]

42. Ummmm....if something isn't illegal by statute....

it's REALLY difficult to make it illegal in court.

"Should I be fired from my job for posting in a anonymous forum that i don't want to go to work on Monday even though I am required to do so and don't have any personal or vacation days left to take the day off?"

That's not what misanthrope did. He posted asking for suggestions how he could subvert the station's policies. He then took those suggestions and formulated a plan of action, getting prepared to violate the policy. He (stupidly, IMHO) published all of this on the internet, where it could be accessed by ANYBODY, and with enough information to identify who he was and where he worked.

"Or should I be fired for the act of not showing up at work on Monday even though I have no time off available?"

At that point, it's too late to prevent the damage.

The station has a right to protect it's interests. IF they can do it before their interests are actually threatened, that's good. If a cop says "I'm gonna go out and shoot me a "N-word" tonight", the cop should be fired immediately, before he or she gets a chance to carry out the threat. The fact that they haven't actually done it yet is immaterial.

[jayfish]

44. You Have A Strange Understanding Of Our Justice System And Your...

analogies are horrible :) We don't punish people in this country for what they might do. If that were the case, we should just let the FBI profile everyone and get all of the potential riff-raff off of the streets before they have a chance to live up to the profile. More germane to the issue at hand, how about denying a person a job because they are genetically predisposed to all sorts of nasty illnesses that could cost the employee a bundle. Your cop analogy is just plain awful. Threats of violence and/or threats to commit hate crimes are not protected speech. Posting anonymously on a message board is.

Jay

[DoNotRefill]

47. Jayfish, my understanding of the justice system comes from...

graduating from law school and actively working within the judicial system itself. Can you say the same?

[jayfish]

51. Close But At The Other End Of The System.

Jay

[gristy]

3. Don't think so.

I'm also no lawyer. But I don't think the guy did anything illegal.

[NashVegas]

15. station policies

Depends on what they are in regards to internet activity from the office.

There also may be other matters at play.

[Democracy Died 2004]

4. Sue them?

Is that what the price for freedom of speech has come?
God with this kind of thinking no wonder the Ideology of America is gone.

When our forefathers and fellow countrymen felt that they were being oppressed they took up arms. Jeez now we get a lawyer.

[sangh0]

6. Bush* agrees

,

[Beware the Beast Man]

12. So that's your solution??

I don't think too many people are going to back you up on that one- not around here, anyway.

[Deja Q]

16. It's called "profit before people"

We escaped oppression and religious persecution and said we wanted freedom.

Long before Reagan (by 200+ years) we became the oppressors and persecutors. From slavery to the Salem witch trials to today's corporate robber barons, America has never been 100% true to its name. And every time one aspect of it gets truer, something else threatens to make the Constitution as useful as used toilet paper once again.

We humans have a long way to do. :-(

[ibegurpard]

21. Marx_redux...LOL

:eyes:

[jayfish]

23. WTF Are You Talking About

Take up arms against whom? NPR? The local affiliate? Free Republic. The only remedy the American people have against injustice is litigation. GET FUCKING OVER IT. This kind of shit needs to be stopped.


Jay

[Democracy Died 2004]

24. Taking up arms

was the old way.. not meant literally here. but i don't think a libel/slander suit that will languish in courts for years will really show those big meanies anything.. how bout an old fashion show of public disobedience? Something other than i am gonna sic my lawyers on you.

[jayfish]

32. Ok. Sorry...

for the mean spiritedness. The methods you offer don't seem to work anymore. They just don't get any coverage. Protests seem to be met with an attitude of "what a bunch of kooks" or just outright disdain. Outright civil disobedience will land you right in jail (peaceful or not). The court system is the only meaningful way left. There is a beginning and no matter how long it takes, an end.

Jay

[DoNotRefill]

37. It wouldn't languish for years.

it wouldn't survive a motion for summary judgement.

[jayfish]

40. The Only Way To Find That Out Is To Do It.

All lawsuits are based upon someones interpretation of current law. Find a law or court decision that loosely fits the scenario (like this one) and roll the dice. It has to start somewhere.

Jay

[DoNotRefill]

43. but think about the costs to misanthrope...

If he goes forward, he's gonna be screwed when it comes time to get another job.

[jayfish]

45. I'll Give You One On That Point, But...

many a great thing has come form those who were willing to sacrifice everything. If I was in his position I would not hesitate.

Jay

[DoNotRefill]

46. it's easy to be virtuous when it's not you on the line....

but if it's your ass actually on the line, with no unemployment benefits and being unable to get a job, make your payments, or care for your wife and kids, you might think differently.

I'd STRONGLY advise Misanthrope to come to terms with the station quickly. If he can get them to agree to a neutral reference (the dates that he worked there, and that his performance was satisfactory with no reference to why he was fired or let go), that the firing was without cause but legally OK (so he can get unemployment), I'd advise him to JUMP on it.

[Yupster]

49. Agree DoNot

No boss is going to hire someone who tried to subvert his last boss's directions so he could make a personal political statement at work. I say that as a small-time employer.

[Racenut20]

5. Should go to the EEOC.

[DoNotRefill]

10. Huh? Why?

eom

[rinsd]

8. How can you sue for slander?

The Freeper(though a rat a-hole) posted a link to Misanthrope's comments. He then wrote his opinion in a private letter(later posted to FR) to the station manager. Everything posted on FR used pseudonyms except for identifing the station. I just don't see slander or libel there.

Besides, he would probably have more luck against the employer.

[wtmusic]

9. Slander? If anything it would be libel, and it's not even close

Misanthrope was hired to do a job and didn't do it. Sometimes it sucks, but that's the way it works.

[DoNotRefill]

11. remember, truth is generally a defense against libel....

and the freeper sent links to misanthrope's own words.

The Freeper didn't make a bunch of crap up. He merely sent what misanthrope said to his employer.

[thebigidea]

13. that's not true at all

"Misanthrope was hired to do a job and didn't do it. "

How can you possibly interpret it that way?

He discussed a hypothetical song list on a message board. Not on the job, either...

There was nothing wrong with any of the stuff actually broadcast...

Anyway, if this were me, I'd consider it a blessing in disguise: any asshole who would scream "You're fired!" over something like this wouldn't deserve me. I'd try to get some press and a better job in more hospitable climes.

Give the radio station such bad press that they lose some ads, listeners, and curse the day they listened to a fuckin' freeper.

Of course, that's just me.

This isn't Ari Fleischerland any more. Fuck this!

[wtmusic]

20. original post

"<misanthrope> was asked by his/her supervisor to plan some respectful mourning programming for tomorrow (Friday) in observance of Reagan's memorial. Instead, X asked the other readers of the site to brainstorm ways he could ignore/violate that instruction and attack Reagan in ways subtle enough that his/her actions wouldn't be obvious to most listeners. X has planned a lineup intended to be subtly offensive to Reagan's memory."

I'd fire him/her too.

[thebigidea]

26. That's probably why you don't produce any quality programming

[wtmusic]

27. neither does misanthrope

now, anyway

[thebigidea]

30. Nice dodge - but I'm talking about station mgmt and your judgment

[jayfish]

19. How Do You Figure He Did Not Do The Job?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1770898&mesg_id=1770898

Jay

[lapislzi]

36. Libel is print. Much easier to prove than slander

A case of he said she said. Slander cases don't usually hold up.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Neecy]

34. no

As disgusted as I am by the action of this pig, we're no better than he is if we 'take him down' or appear to pose a physical threat to him.

This is between him and Misanthrope. The only recourse that I can see is to name him in a civil suit - even if it's dismissed, it's cost Mr. Freeper Man a lot of cash. That's up to Misanthrope, and I'm sure he'll make his decisions based on his legal advice.

[Yupster]

50. I don't recommend anyone

filing a suit if they know they're going t lose it just to waste someone's time and money. That seems like the very definition of a frivolous lawsuit.

[NashVegas]

22. Ask for a Meeting with the PD and GM

Apologize for his immaturity and lack of professionalism, and say how much he's learned from the experience. Then, humbly request they reconsider their decision to can him.

[Baltimoreboy]

25. You mean after this firestorm?

As a boss, considering what his actions have set in motion, no possible way.

[ibegurpard]

31. rat-fuck the freeper.

eom

[0rganism]

33. Please get real. There is nothing actionable against FR in this matter

They may have other liabilities, but the actions of Lane Flynn were taken based on information freely and publicly offered by misanthrope at DU.

[Lex]

41. Find out where that asshole FReeper works

then print out all his hateful posts, and the letter he sent to the guy at the NPR station, and send that to HIS boss.

See how he like a taste of his own medicine.

On second thought, he probably doesn't have a job. But you could try to find out about that anyway.

Don't you have his name?

[grasswire]

48. the best revenge...

....is for our misanthrope to get some high-profile public notice that will catapault him to a REAL radio job somewhere.

Work it, misanthrope!