I feel depressed...I will have to vote for Kerry because he still

[LittleApple81]

is the better choice in the elections. But if it is true that he seriously considered to offer the VP to a REPUG, I will vote with a heavy heart. FOR HEAVENS SAKES WE WANT TO GET RID OF THE REPUGS!!!!

I already contributed to his campaign and I might contribute again. But it is not going to be a very enthusiastic contribution...

You don't know how disillusioned I have been feeling that he has not come out to deny the "official news" found all over the place.... I guess if he really did it he cannot deny it.

[WilliamPitt]

1. *groan*

McCain would never take the offer of VP, and Kerry knew that, so Kerry put the word out. 100% upside only. Every time Kerry mentions McCain, millions of independent voters sit up and take notice.

[mcar]

3. Thanks for explaining this

Did we not have to have something get people's attention after the beatification of St. Ronnie? :eyes:

[LittleApple81]

4. William: I hate these political games. McCain supports Bush at

every turn, campaigns for him, and we have OUR candidate offering him a job? Don't we have ANY GOOD candidates for VP in our own party? I don't want to get your groans, I just don't feel very happy about this. The independent voters are important but the base is too.

[WilliamPitt]

7. If you hate political games,

you have found the wrong hobby here. This was tactically brilliant.

[Just Me]

15. One can LOVE the strategy and hate the corruption, though,...yes? n/t

[LittleApple81]

18. Exactly. n/t

[Just Me]

22. Then,...why are you depressed? No need for that,...right? n/t

[LittleApple81]

23. Nobody LIKES to be depressed. But I expected better. n/t

[Just Me]

69. We can live on expectations or live for our visions: one disappoints.n/t

[WilliamPitt]

29. How is this strategy corrupt?

[sangha]

34. I was going to ask the same question

Some people think that if something makes them *feel* bad, it's OK to call it whatever bad name they can think of. After all, everyone knows that politics is about making ME, ME, ME feel good, right?

[mandyky]

28. Tactically Brilliant, eh?

That's what Rush said about prisoner abuse

No wonder less tahn 50% of Americans vote, when politicians do things that are tactically brilliant but as phony as a $3 - bill. yeesh

[WilliamPitt]

31. So Kerry courting independent voters through McCain

is the same as prisoner abuse?

Turn off Rush, back away from your radio, and get some fresh air.

[mandyky]

49. I don't listen to Rush LOL

Heard the excerpt on O'Franken - and like it or not to some people lies and ridiculous statements offend "independents". I am a registered Dem but an independent one who does not like liars or tactically brilliant foolishness from the left or the right.

Go ahead and make excuses for Kerry, and when folks don't vote for him over something YOU think is tactically brilliant, don't whine. I am voting for him to get shrub out, I don't want to feel like I am replacing Texas Bullshit for Massachusetts Bullshit!

[merh]

59. Forgive my simple mindedness (is that a word?)

But what is wrong with trying to show that the good of the country is more important than the "Party"?

We simple folks hate the "biapartisaness" (not sure about this one either) of our political system. Those who naah the possibility that Kerry asked McCain to be his running mate sound just like Dubya and his clan "You're either for us or against us"

Trying to pull the nation together, trying to unite the nation and find common ground is not a bad idea.

You are also wrong about McCain blindly following Bush. Remember when the party turned their back on him because he wouldn't vote for the tax cuts.

Open your mind to possibilities. Don't damn the man for trying to ensure a win. The most important goal of this election is to dethrone Dubya.

[mandyky]

81. Hey, I like McCain

I was merely arguing the tactically brillant comment LOL

I think we as a country have a lot of healing to do and a lot of partisanship to overcome, and if a Kerry/McCain ticket would help, I'm all for it.

[WilliamPitt]

95. "folks don't vote for him over something YOU think is tactically brilliant

I imagine you're talking about the 1% of the 'base' that can't be counted on to vote for an 'impure' candidate to begin with.

Yeah, it's a tactical disaster to ignore that incredibly unreliable vote bloc, and go for the millions of independent voters who still have enormous respect for McCain. I'd roll the dice for as much of that 20% voter bloc as I can finagle, and still be reasonably confident that I'd do better than 1%.

[Sterling]

77. Tactically stupid, it makes Kerry and the party look weak

I am starting to think Keryy is inept and will make as bad a president as bush, only for differnt reasons. I have yet to see him get anything write.

[boxster]

14. Most of the base is a lock.

The primaries proved that. The base wants Bush out of the White House, and they essentially turned the primary into a cakewalk for Kerry.

Sure, some people might protest this issue or others re: Kerry, but the bottom line is that they'll still vote for him in November.

He knows that. He knows that he needs to court the middle, not the base. This is intended to do just that.

[paulk]

58. What is the base, though?

Polls have shown that a Kerry/McCain ticket wins overwhemingly.
Maybe Kerry/McCain IS the base?

[ElementaryPenguin]

6. You're exactly right, Will.

:evilgrin:

[boxster]

10. Exactly.

And those independent voters are the ones that will be responsible for who wins and who loses in November.

Maybe Kerry made the offer, but made it contingent on McCain switching parties. Jeffords, part 2?

McCain wouldn't switch, but don't think for a second that he doesn't LOVE the attention! :D

[lancdem]

12. Bingo!

But some people here don't seem to get that.

[Kahuna]

24. They've been discounting the Independent vote since I've been on..

DU. They will never get it. All candidates court Indies. There is no other way to win.

[boxster]

30. What people do not understand is that the independent voters are...

the ONLY ONES AVAILABLE!!

The (D) base will vote for Kerry.
The (R) base will vote for Bush.

So, hmm...I wonder who's left? ;)

[Kahuna]

51. LOL!

It boogles the mind when you put it like that. :hi:

[sendero]

32. That is your theory...

... but somehow I doubt you have any proof whatsoever of your claim.

[lancdem]

40. How in the world would you "prove"

something like this? Have the Kerry people blab their strategy in public? That makes a lot of sense. :eyes:

[sendero]

50. Then why...

... claim it is so? The fact is, I'm as in the dark as to what is really up with Kerry as the average American seems to be.

I find the idea of floating a Rep VP choice as bullsh*t whatever the motivation. If we have to reach out that far to the right, then what's the point? I'd rather let Bush* have 4 more years to drive home to the average idiot just how malignant he is.

Everyone says "you have to get the center". Ok, I can live with that. But just how far do you go? There has to be a limit, and even considering a wingnut VP is too damn far. WAY too far.

[boxster]

42. There's probably just as much proof of Will's theory as there is

proving that Kerry offered McCain the job.

McCain categorically denied it, by the way. So, there is proof that Kerry did not offer McCain the job.

Do you have proof that he did?

[Kahuna]

56. Does proof really matter? Kerry is trying to be a TRUE uniter..

unlike the current occupant. This shows the electorate that Kerry is really serious about putting the good of the country before party politics.

I personally detest the idea of McCain as V.P. It makes me want to hurl. The bad taste in my mouth at the suggestion that Kerry offered it to McCain will dissipate eventually, since I KNOW there is no possibility that McCain will accept. Still, even if McCain would accept, I'd hold my nose and vote for Kerry.

[Rebellious Republican]

54. "*groan*" Well said Will! N/T

[LittleApple81]

55. Why "groan"? This is a forum. People should not feel superior because

other people do not appreciate that EVERYTHING is done for POLITICS and not much for honesty.

[Rebellious Republican]

68. Re-read the replies, if you do not get it by now you never will!

On edit:
This same topic has been posted a couple of times already with the same arguments and explanations.

:eyes:

[LittleApple81]

79. OK. So Kerry is going to go to be president because of the

"The warm body who can win against Bush" vote not the Kerry vote. But since it is politics, it really doesn't matter, does it? I understand. I get it. I will vote for "The warm body who can win against Bush". And right now that is Kerry. All is well and good. THANKS!!!

[LandOLincoln]

80. Well, I suppose you could always vote for

Nader, "The dead body who will help Bush win against Kerry," if that will make you feel better. :evilgrin:

[LittleApple81]

82. You know that, unfortunately, he is not even a warm political body

right now. He is a poison pill. I am sorry our country has been put in this bind.

[LandOLincoln]

86. Who are you talking about? Who's the

"poison pill?" I'm assuming you mean Nader, but your post doesn't really make that clear.

[LittleApple81]

87. read the post I was replying to. That will make it clear. n/t

[LandOLincoln]

88. I wrote the post you were replying to, and I still don't know

what you're talking about.

[LittleApple81]

90. You said Nader.

[LandOLincoln]

91. So you were talking about Nader?

Thank you. I hoped that was the case, but given your outspoken unhappiness with Kerry, I wasn't sure.

[LittleApple81]

94. I am VERY UNHAPPY but not crazy. I still worry about America.n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

84. Bingo-bingo-bingo! Why are people not grasping that simple fact?

[Arianrhod]

97. I like that explanation. I hope it's correct. n/t

[VIHMH5L50P]

98. Kerry shouldnt waste his time, our time

with stupid ass stunts like pretending he is thinking about McCain. too slick (and who needs a stupid tired REPUB anyway, I dont)?? you?????? Hello, earth to Kerry...grow up

[Vickers]

2. Just vote your conscience

Love,

Karl Rove

[nostamj]

5. please... even if you CAN'T vote FOR Kerry

and, you should...

just vote AGAINST *...

it's a good thing... (well, certainly, a BETTER thing)

[shraby]

8. The McCain thing was

something Rove floated to keep Democrats upset and maybe not vote for Kerry. It was in the news cause that's where Rove wanted it to be.

[lancdem]

17. No, this is floated by the Kerry camp

to embarrass Bush. The only Dems upset are some people on DU who don't grasp what Kerry's trying to do here.

[LittleApple81]

19. Exactly. I am not jaded enough about our party to understand

what he is trying to do. But I will get there.

[boxster]

25. You don't have to be jaded.

Just remember - Kerry's been at this a LONG time, and he knows how the game works. He's won some very difficult races in the past, and he understands what makes voters vote the way they do.

Just look what he did in the primaries. He came out of nowhere and nearly took all of the suspense out of the process after the second or third week. (Everywhere but DU, that is, where the primary still seems to be being fought).

He knows what he's doing. You may not agree with his methods, but the bottom line is that he knows that his appearance of non-partisanship is going to win him some votes. And it will.

[lancdem]

27. The point is, there never was any chance McCain

was going to be VP, so that means Kerry always intended to pick a Dem. That's the bottom line, and perhaps reassures you a bit. :)

[Kahuna]

45. Glad to know there's hope for you...

:evilgrin: Politics is GAME. It always has been and it always will be. Duh.

[LittleApple81]

9. I WILL VOTE FOR KERRY. But that doesn't mean I LIKE EVERYTHING

he does. And if I don't like it, I think I should say so.

[Kanary]

73. Of course you should say so.

This, afterall, is still a semi-free country. When we have to start taking a loyalty oath to be a Dem, I hope we ALL realize we're in trouble.

I'm really bummed that you put In Your Headline that you're going to vote for him, yet you still have people coming after you to proclaim you will vote for him. Disconnect?? I guess.....

You have every right to your thoughts and feelings....... unfortunately, voicing them here is likely to get you slammed.

It's really too bad.......

For what it's worth...... I'm with ya, as are many of my friends.

Kanary

[wtmusic]

11. With you there

I could never wholly support Kerry after the war vote. That seems like such an un-Democratic thing to do.

That debate has been rehashed way too many times around here, but his actions speak louder than his words or ours.

[T Town Jake]

13. Not me...

...I intend to march into that booth (well, it's not a "booth" really) and vote for Kerry without the slightest pause or hesitation. I simply don't understand all this hand-wringing when people KNOW the alternative.

[LittleApple81]

16. Did I say I was not going to vote for him? I MUST, not for him but

for us. But I don't like for the republicans to say that we cannot find ONE DEMOCRAT that is good enough to be VP.

[lancdem]

20. McCain's name was one of many being floated

the others are Dems, like Edwards, Gephardt and Clark. I don't know where you get the idea this means Kerry thinks there are no good Dem VP candidates.

[LittleApple81]

26. The "news" was that he OFFERED it to McCain, not that he was

floating his name.

[lancdem]

35. He didn't offer him the VP post

McCain's spokesman categorically denied it.

[Hoping4Change]

43. I think you are ignoring the political brownie points Kerry can

score with the fence sitting Repubs. I think it is strictly political gamesmanship and must be taken as such. By letting this rumour circulate, Kerry is presented as someone willing to reach to across the aisle and in doing so deflect Rove's attempts to present Kerry as a frothing extremist.

With Rove as an adversary, Kerry needs to be wily.

The ancient Greeks believed that cleverness was intrinsic to any heroic endeavor. To be heroic you had to have the cunning to outwit your adversary.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

21. John Kerry doesn't exactly knock my socks off either,

but when I think of another 4 years of Bushco, I shudder.

We have to take our country back. Remember that in November.

[Kahuna]

36. An all repuke government isn't exactly working out too good. Is it?

Something for the faint of heart to remember. If bush wins there will very likely be a draft which could include women who are mothers. We will likely get a couple of shiny new SCOTUS justices. Leading contenders are: Ken "Get Bill" Starr, Alberto "Torture is Good" Gonzales, Ted "Stop the Vote Count" Olsen, and Orin "I Repuke, therefore I am" Hatch.

[Booster]

83. I agree.....

I just wish we had a candidate that had fire in his soul, and, although I most certainly vote for Kerry, just once I would love to vote for someone rather than against someone. Been the same all my life; John Edwards came close to that "feeling good about my candidate" feeling and I truly hope he's the choice for VP.

[Joanne98]

33. This was a smart move

Kerry knew McCain wouldn't accept so he figured out a way to grab some McCain voters without actually doing anything. Allot of independent voters love McCain. If they think Kerry asked him to be VP he gets a bump with them, despite McCain's rejection. This was actually a brilliant move. How much it will pay off is to be seen. Kerry has to run to the middle from now on. Don't let the right start a fight within the Dem Party. Watch FOX make a big deal about this trying to piss off the Dem base hoping they go to Nader. Just remember it's ABB (anybody but Bush) this November. If we keep our eye on the prize we'll make it. United we stand, divided we fall.
Let Kerry run to the middle, keep your eye on the ball and STAY THE COURSE. Just my 2 cents. :)

[LittleApple81]

39. I don't mean to be DIVISIVE. I will vote for the guy. I will help with

democratic candidates at the local, state, and national level. But I could not control the feeling of................

[Joanne98]

62. I know how you feel

I didn't call you divisive. Hell I voted for Nader last time. Imagine how I feel now knowing what a mistake that was. What we really need to do is work on run-off voting. Like what they passed in San Fran. Then we could be practical and vote our conscious too but this election is not the time. If Bush is elected our country is toast. If main-stream America would "get a clue" we wouldn't have to be fighting so hard but they're not really waking up. Until they do the left is stuck carrying the torch. Sorry that's just the way it is.

[Kanary]

75. You're NOT being divisive.

That title rightly belongs to those who are ignoring what you really said, and can't accord you the respect of your own thoughts.

sad......

Kanary

[Kahuna]

41. Yeah but, trying to keep unity among the left is like herding cats...

And we claim to be the "smart" voters. :eyes:

[LittleApple81]

46. I prefer that than marching in LOCKSTEP and not expressing what

we feel and WHY.

[LittleApple81]

47. Isn't that what we criticize the RW for?

[Joanne98]

63. You can express how you feel

I'm glad you started this thread because I expect the right to try to divide us from now on. I hope people are open about how they feel so we can get it out in the open. Just don't keep it in. It's going to work out, really.

[JayS]

93. We are doomed! Doomed! DOOMED!

You are right, Joanne98. I feel a lot better now. :) :) :)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

37. Fortunately, I won't have to vote for Kerry.

Living in a "safe" state I'll be able to vote Green/Nader/No for Prez. If I lived in a "battleground" state, it would be more difficult and I would probably consider the barf bag, hold my nose, avoid the mirror route, and vote for the "Trust me, under the DLC veneer I'm really a liberal."

This latest revelation just fortifies my position.

[JayS]

53. Me too! It is a great feeling, isn't it? :) n/t

n/t

[newsguyatl]

38. i'm with you littleapple

whether it was a political move, or a genuine one, it's certainly not comforting in the least.

[mitchum]

44. I don't like that suit Kerry was wearing last week...

but I will happily vote for him :)

[Kahuna]

48. I hate his new hair cut. But I will hold my nose and vote for him.

:D

[LittleApple81]

52. The worst thing you can do is insulting the people that ARE voting

for him by comparing a stupid suit with his offering the VP to a repug.

[mitchum]

60. SOME people need to learn not to take offense so easily

God! First Kerry...now me...when will it end?
However, we do agree on one thing; it is a stupid suit.

[sangha]

66. True, but that suit will have more power than a VP

The VP does nothing unless President tells him to. At least the suit gets to hang out all day.

[LittleApple81]

76. What about Cheney? I hope we don't have the same situation, but

at the same time I don't want a blank like Quaile.

[JI7]

89. THIS SUIT ?

the one in my pic ? if that's the one then i might be one of the few who liked it. although it did take a little getting used to.

[mitchum]

92. That's the one!

I know it's summertime and all, but still...:)

[LandOLincoln]

64. Kerry DID NOT "offer" the VP spot to a Republican.

What part of McCain's denial that he was ever actually offered the VP spot don't you understand?

[Eloriel]

57. That's the least of his sins, IMO

But it's certainly not a very strong endorsement, is it?

I heard on the news tonight that Kerry had quietly contacted McCain and McCain's answer in private was the same as it's been in public. It made Kerry look like a sorry and desperate buffoon and his party pretty bankrupt as well -- WITHOUT any any spin on the reporter's part whatsoever. Kerry shoulda thought the whole thing through just a little bit. It was a REAL downer. All I could say was "Thank God for Ronald Reagan," but this story will no doubt live through the weekend and beyond. The GOP will see to it.

[LittleApple81]

61. THANKS. I have been treated as an ignoramus because I expressed

my disappointment. I am not ignorant. I just don't think that political expediency has taken us to good places. Remember when we called the democratic congress people "tutu democrats?" I wonder why we got to where we are with the IMPERIAL presidency????

[LandOLincoln]

65. Yes, of course they will, since they're the ones who

floated it in the first place.

PLEASE get a grip, people. This is Rove at work, make no mistake, and too many of you are falling for it bigtime.

[LittleApple81]

67. No. I am not. I WILL HELP KERRY. It doesn't mean that I have to

be in love with him. And I am not.

[LittleApple81]

70. WATCH the McLaughlin report right now (9:05 ET, PBS).

It kind of proves my point. They are casting Reagan as a uniter because the democrats didn't contradict what Reagan stood for at the time. They are saying Kerry was one of the ones sounding the UNCERTAIN TRUMPET against Reagan.

[NashVegas]

71. A Special Site Just For You!

http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbutimvotingforhimanyway.com/

[LittleApple81]

74. From what I have heard about that site, it is not only for me. LOL

[Tatiana]

72. Do we want to court "independents" and alienate our base?

Cause that's what this whole McCain for VP thing seems to be doing.

I do think it was a strategy, but I don't think Kerry scored any points with it. Not that he lost any, but I think we'll win just fine if we make sure all of our base gets out to the polls and are not illegally removed from the rolls.

[seabeyond]

78. not going to be a very enthusiastic contribution...

you are a beauty, and this is the cutest...........

i hear what you are saying and absolutely we have our own people, i see why he does it and have to get a giggle saying it out loud, and i think mccain likes it to at a jab at the neocon. doesnt hurt to know we have a person that has respect from the people on the other side. they may be able to accomplish something

[kikiek]

85. I used to respect McCain, BUT

I no longer do. He has stuck with a party that degraded, demoralized, and denounced him. That isn't loyalty. That is stupidity. I don't know why Kerry would even consider him a worthy running mate. I really doubt there was any serious consideration.

[FredScuttle]

96. I don't care...

if Kerry digs up Nixon and runs as the Kerry/Nixon's Old Bones in '04 ticket...I'm still voting for him.