What do you think of the concept of personal responsibility?

[quinnox]

Is this just a right wing talking point, or is there really merit in this?

Do people have responsibility for the choices they make and their consequences, or is it the fault of society and the environment they are brought up in for "wrongful" acts?

Or maybe a mixture of both?

[Syncronaut Seven]

1. Not my job man.

I let the adults do that "personal responsibility" shit. :hippie:

[wyldwolf]

2. There is merit in it, but libertarians take it to the extreme.

Neal Boortz, for example, preaches that it is your own fault if you are poor. Poor people are poor, he says, based on bad decisions.

However, I've know poor people who never had the opportunity to even make life altering decisions.

[salib]

5. Yeah, it sure was a bad decision

That I was not born into the Gate family. But, I sure made a good decision to be born in the USA, instead of say Bangladesh! All my fault I guess.

[playahata1]

3. NO political party, NO ideology, NO racial/ethnic group,

has a monopoly on "personal responsibility." That term has been tossed about like laundry in the dryer so much in our sociopolitical discourse that it means nothing to me anymore.

I am receiving SSI disability while recovering from cancer. Recently I received some pamphlet from Social Security whose title -- can't recall the exact wording -- implied that people receiving SS and SSI benefits are unwilling to look for work and "need help" in "taking responsibility." I threw that bullshit in the trash. I was working -- albeit part-time, as I have been unable to find full-time work in my field -- when I was diagnosed, and I plan to return to work in my field, whether part-time or full-time, once I get a clean bill of health.

I do not appreciate being told that asking for help from the government means that I am abdicating "responsibility." You call having three academic degrees, having worked in journalism and academia -- not to mention suffering from what can be a terminal illness -- being "irresponsible"? Spare me the fucking condescension.

[FleshCartoon]

4. I think this...

In the development of an individual, it's probably both, but there comes a time when the individual is responsible for knowing him/herself and what makes them tick. At that point, though one may recognize that certain situations or behaviors helped a negative trait along, it's then necessary to begin working to stop behaving that way.

So, it's typically a long road for most of us, but we have to set out on it if we want to grow. To not look inside yourself and your motivations is akin to sticking your head in the sand just after you've declared that the devil made you do it.

As far as financial and social prestige, I think that the more one grows, the less important those things become because wanting to be adored and owning things for status is indicative of an insecure person. It's not unnatural to want those things, it's just wrong to assign them more importance than they actually have.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

6. I Believe in It and Live By It

But I still support government programs. Personal responsibility does not mean screw the poor.

DTH

[Bonhomme Richard]

7. I believe in Personal Responsibility but to a point.

I am where I am today because of the choices I have made. Some good, some bad. BUT, I don't kid myself either. I was lucky to be born male, white, in this country, a good and close middle class family, and have an education paid for. I think choices are made based on experiences and in that regard I got a major break that most others in the world didn't.
So in the end, I guess I was pre-disposed to make the right choices and even then sometimes I didn't.

[Red State Rebel]

34. I don't completely agree...

I have had every excuse to be a total screw up. My mom divorced 3 times, she and my longest stepfather spent 12 years messing around on each other. He was physically abusive to us kids and add to that the fact that I was molested at age 9 by my own grandfather. By the time I was of age to date, my mom was involved in her 2nd divorce and 3rd marriage which lasted all of 2 years. She was so wrapped up in her own drama that I was pretty much given free reign. Nobody bothered with my grades, I had no curfew, pretty much came and went as I wanted from age 15 on.



With that background, had every excuse to screw up and get into trouble. I didn't. Why? Because I chose not to. I made my mistakes, mind you, but I learned quickly that I was responsible for my life, not anyone else. As screwed up as the past was, I wanted a future and I knew what I had to do to get there.

Everyone is faced with choices every day. If they make bad choices and you excuse them because of some victimization, you are only making them a victim again. Unless people are held responsible for their actions they will never change the course they are on.

[Bonhomme Richard]

41. I don't disagree with you but...........................

you made the right choices. That is the way to go though I can understand those that dig such a hole for themselves, making poor choices, that I may have sympathy for them as they try to dig out.
I guess what I meant to say was although I might have made the proper choices, and believe me there is still plenty of room to screw up, I had certain advantages others, including yourself, did not have and I, with those disadvantages, may have continued to make poor choices.

[Yupster]

8. Like most things,

neither side is right or wrong. The answer is somewhere in the middle.

Parnts, individuals should take responsibility for many things. The government should help with many things too.

One thing I do believe though is that it's the parents' responsibility to feed their kids lunch and breakfast unless they are too poor to. I don't mind helping parents who honestly can't afford to make their kids a sandwich, but in my local school district, over 50 % of the kids are recieving free or reduced lunch at school, and this is not a poor community.

To me that's an abuse of me as a taxpayer, and worse, it's telling parents that they do not have to take personal responsibility for even their most basic parental responsibilities. I think that's a bad message to send to parents.

[DaveSZ]

15. Think of the AIDS or teen pregnancy issues

We know Reagan, Bush II, and those type of people think that if people simply wouldn't have sex, they wouldn't get pregnant or contract AIDS.

They use this belief to justify opposing government programs that have proven to reduce AIDS and teen pregnancy in other countries, or even to oppose scientific research in these fields.

I call that a lack of common sense, and personal irresponsibility on their part.

[neebob]

9. It's a nice theory

but in practice it's just a big load of bullshit dumped out by the rich and powerful to excuse their failures to do anything but enrich themselves and obscure the crimes they commit while doing it.

[Monte Carlo]

10. It's a great idea, it just gets FUBAR by those on a mission.

It's all about making everything look like a clear choice; a party of personal responsibility vs. a party of irresponsibility.

[ronatchig]

11. True personal responsibility

is a basic tenet of moral behavior imho. For instance I take full responsibility for my words and deeds. And that is why I try to be careful with both. That being said should a person who has made a mistake be branded as a worthless individual for life. I don't think so.
In many instances "personal responsibility" is rethug code for throwing grandma out in the snow when she can't hold up her share of the load.

I guess what I am trying to say is along with words and deeds I also have a personal responsibility for compassion, forgiveness, and generosity as well.

[TahitiNut]

12. Apply that notion to Estate Taxation

Show me the 'personal responsibility' of those who are enriched through inheritance and the labors of others.

True responsibility must include accountability ... and a notion of Justice where penalties accrue at no greater rate than the benefits. When the wealthy and powerful do neither the labor in the mines and factories nor the dying in combat, I see no balanced accountability. I see only credits to the rich and debits to the poor. Fuck 'em.

[Sporadicus]

13. The RW Should Take Their Own Advice To Heart

up to the time of the 'Reagan Revolution,' there existed a concept among the rich & powerful of noblesse oblige. If they want to stress 'individual responsibility,' let them answer the charge that they have dissipated their time, talent and wealth on self-indulgent endeavors.

I know this is a bit off-topic, but I'm in a free-associational mood today.

[quinnox]

18. No problem

I am enjoying all the answers, it is interesting.

[DemExpat]

14. I believe it is both - choices and environment/society/family.....

but in my opinion making the choices and taking responsibility is something anybody can try to do, while wishing family/society had been different (and blaming them) gets one pretty much nowhere fast.

My best advice in therapy was to take baby steps in making my life, my little miniscule piece of the world, better in ways that I wanted it to be better. In doing so, I was able to expand the improvement to wider circles.
DemEx

[DaveSZ]

17. Note also

Note also how quickly wingnuts like Ashcroft, who claim to hold the mantle of personal responsibility, are quick to pass the blame onto the Clenis.

They don't really believe in that shit, and it's simply a RW talking point used to dupe people into voting for corporate hegemony.

[DemExpat]

24. Yes, their definition of "personal responsibility"

is totally different from mine!:D

And they only use the term when it pertains to others.

DemEx

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. As meant by the Libertarians and other rightwingers it's just the opposite

Their concept of "personal responsibility" means that they will accept no responsibility beyond that which concerns them personally.

The plight of the poor, the oppressed, the sick, are shuffed off as "something I'm not responsible for", therefore not worthy of concern or (God forbid) help in a material way.

It's pretty damned easy to assume the mantle of "personal responsibility" when one is born white, wealthy, American, and have the world at your feet.

Some of us, however, feel some responsibility for our fellow humans, desptie the fact that we may have been lucky enough to have achieved some modicum of material "success".

[tandot]

19. Both.

I think lots of problems are created by people making the wrong choices. People should take the responsibility for their actions.

However, some situations are beyond our control. A bad economy, high unemployment, certain illnesses, the environment (tornadoes, etc) and other things are beyond our control. I wouldn't say that it is my fault if a tornado tears up my home. But I'd have to admit that it is partly my fault for living in tornado alley and therefore increasing the chance of that happening. But, on the other hand, natural disasters can occur anywhere.

This is a tough question.

[yorgatron]

23. the concept of incorporation is to AVOID

personal responsibility.

[dpbrown]

20. Coverup for wingnuts' proclivity to exclude all the choices

Then use the "personal responsibility" canard to blame the unfortunate.

[KittyWampus]

21. I Take Total Responsibility For Myself & Everything That Happens To Me

EVERYTHING.

That is a position of power which very few take or can even comprehend.

I am responsible for incarnating into my family in the body currently in use.
I am responsible for making that left hand turn which ended up in almost losing my leg.

However, I also recognize that one's personal self is part of a larger whole.

What I accomplish has been done with the help of countless beings.

Edit: the far right doesn't really believe in taking responsiblity. Their main thing is assigning blame and guilt. And feeling that each person is on their own to prosper or wither according to their own devices.

[seabeyond]

22. bushie boy doesnt believe in personal responsibility either

nor does my brother who is sitting in jail. nor his x wife in reno. nor their three kids that have lived with two drunks who havent taken care of them

it is always the circumstance

i chose to believe we create. gosh, knowing my choice is going to be responsible for the outcome gives me the power. wouldnt want to give that away, and i wouldnt want the responsibility of doing for another. not mine to do. only theirs.

i could go to my children, at 5 years old, i teach them it is theirs to create. throw a fit, and receive the punishment, work thru it, and receive your creation. well though the fit is going to create the punishment

good enough for them, good enough for president

[DoYouEverWonder]

25. There are people in the world

who can not take care of themselves, therefore it is up to society to find appropriate ways to take care of those less fortunate.

[TreasonousBastard]

26. Ultimately, we are responsible, but...

the decisions we make are never in a vacuum.

No matter what loudest advocates of "personal responsibility" say, none of us really has all choices open. We often lack money, knowledge, means, power, associates, or other things to make the "correct" choice. None of us is perfect, and we often lack the intelligence or courage to do what we might think is right.

The right has hijacked the concept of "moral relativism" and made it seem like we change the rules for our advantage. That's not the point at all-- it's really that the rules rarely fit properly.

[SmokingJacket]

27. Meaningless, I think.

The term is a stupid one -- an over-simplification of reality. It's a right-wing code word for "f*** you, poor people, it's your own damn fault." Of *course* many things in our lives are our fault, and under our control -- many things are not. *Most* things are a confusing mixture.

I think RWers believe -- somehow -- that everyone gets what they deserve in this life. So if you're poor, disabled, mentally ill... well, they say, you probably deserve it. If you're rich, on the other hand: well! You must be a truly wonderful person!

Fact is: we don't control much in our lives. Can you imagine if Dubya had been born into poverty? Would he be president? Would he even have a job or have survived this long??

[serryjw]

28. We have LIMITED 'personal responsibility'

I don't control:
Taxes
Jobs
rising health care cost
EXCEL raised OUR Electric 73% in CO in the last 4 months!

Too many important elements of my survival are controled by someone else.Dems 'lose' on the tax issue because thugs BELEIVE that republicans are better on their taxes....which is Bushit

[OHdem10]

29. Personal Responsibilty is code

in the Republian Party which carries racial overtone.

Especially in the South and among the RR, there has been efforts overt in nature to play whites especially of the lower classes against blacks.

Translated I do not want to pay taxes which will be given to blacks(Welfare)_. Personal Responsibilty has a nice ring so it was picked up.

Forget the fact there are more poor whites than blacks. This old race issue will not go away.
It does mean each person is responsible for him or herself literally and should not be dependent on government. In the heat of campaigns watch the Politicians eyes as they roam the crowds. It almost becomes race baiting without anyone being able to prove it.

Just like when Bush goes South to help some one who is in political
campaign--"High Moral Standards means --"we will protect you
from the gays." let you keep your guns and stop all Abortions no matter what the circumstance.

While personal rsponsibilty sounds good, it is imporant to know how
it is being used.

Once upon a time I was a Republican and a Southerner.This is how i gaind my information.

[kayell]

30. I value personal responsiblity for myself

I don't think though that the wingnuts have the same thing in mind.

I believe that I should do my best to make choices in life that will be honest, moral, and that will do the most benefit and the least harm to other people, creatures and the environment. I believe that I am responsible for my own actions and the choices that I make and the effects that they have. I also believe in doing my best to be stable financially. (that may be the only part of this that slightly over laps the repuke version of "personal responsibility". I believe that these are important things that I need to do for myself, my family, friends and the world.

I also know that life is full of chance, and while one can do the best possible to prepare for things, sometimes shit happens. I see no reason that a belief in personal responsibility should preclude a belief in the value of a safety net, of public health care, or of a universal living wage.

I do not believe that "personal responsibility" means judging and punishing other people for things that happen in life. That seems to be what repuke "personal responsibility" means. It seems to have very little bearing on the responsibilities that they themselves take.

[Just Me]

31. Personal responsibility is separate from that which we have no control.

How we choose to act in any given situation is a matter of personal responsibility.

However, those who advocate that "personal responsibility" somehow dictates all outcomes,...well, I just think that they are wrong.

On the other hand, I have heard a "theory" that, we choose the lives we lead before we are even born. It's an interesting concept to think about and lends a sense of control over all that over which we seem powerless. However, I hope like hell that I am not so self-punitive as to do something like that to myself *LOL*.

[markses]

32. But there is no being behind doing, effecting, becoming

The doer is merely a fiction added to the deed - the deed is everything.

- Friedrich Nietzsche, On the Genealogy of Morals

[Red State Rebel]

33. Not holding people responsible for their actions cripples them.

As soon as teenagers reach the age of reason and responsiblity, they HAVE to learn they their future will be the direct result of the choices they make. If they have been spoiled and never been held accountable as young people, they will have a hard time dealing with this.

If you continually rescue your child from tough situations and defend every wrong, they will never learn how to survive in the real world. As someone who has worked in public education for quite a while, I have seen it happen way too often.

As far as adults, absolutely they are responsible for their actions. Making them into victims because of various situations doesn't help them at all.

[SOteric]

35. I think there are two manifest extremes of personal responsibility

which often get cited in political talking points.

The ugly, heartless charge that the poor, the homeless and those unemployed are somehow responsible for their own plight; and the abrogation of accountability that asserts society, or the big corporation, or a government is entirely responsible for actions and ills that befall the individual.

Both are equally absurd in their extreme, but there is a balancing point somewhere in the middle where some amount of truth is present in each.

If I lose job after job because I'm an ass and my employer fires me, it's really my own fault that I'm unemployed.

But if a government makes it easy for corporations to ship jobs overseas, replace large numbers of workers with automation, and makes laws that allow the corporation to take advantage of fewer workers rather than regulate, then the government and the corporations are responsible for the unemployed state of more than a few individuals.

[sangha]

36. I think it has no place in politics

like the rest of the Repukes propoganda. But feel free to spread their propoganda around. Rove appreciates it

[Straight Shooter]

37. I am responsible for myself, but I have had help along the way

In turn, I try to help others who need it as they make their way in life. Seems to me the RW needs to read their Bible a bit more often, especially the scriptures about God being the only one who can read our hearts, and stop their cynical judgment of the less fortunate. They talk about compassion, and then turn their backs on those who need compassion most.

I try to bear in mind the old saying not to judge someone until you have walked in their shoes. Who knows what life events have brought someone to their station in life, and who has the knowledge to understand the chemical/biological properties that cause one person to rise above circumstances while another person chooses a destructive path? It's all a mystery to me.

I'm very concerned about the "personal responsibily" edict being heaped upon the injured returning from Iraq, as those unfortunates attempt to find their way in a society which, under the influence of Republican control, seems slowly to be turning as cold as stone.

[Lindacooks]

38. It's used way too often

by the right wing, when they, of course, take responsibility for nothing they've broken.

[TexasBushwhacker]

39. I do think it's a right wing talking point

and I also think that many people that speak of "personal responsibility" and are successful started life on third base and think they hit a home run. Then there are those who understand the concept of noblesse oblige and recognize that at the end of the day, their success came from education, hard work and being damn lucky.

Dubya accomplished NOTHING in his life that didn't involved banking on his dad's name, and even with that advantage, he still fucked things up for everyone but himself and his cronies. For him of all people to talk about personal responsibility when he went AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard (which he lucked into because daddy pulled the right strings) makes me want to ....... give the guy pretzels!

Speaking of personal responsibility, let's talk about wifey Laura, who "accidently" ran a stop sign, running into the car of her "close friend" Michael Douglas with such an impact that he was dead at the scene.

[seabeyond]

40. i agree they dont take personal responsibility

i think it is clear and that is the absuridity in the words that come out of their mouths

also i would like to say, depends on the definition of success. i have been poor most of my life and also accepted personal responsibility with the choices i made. i was not unhappy in poor, was helped at times, and times i was not. but i dont think that goes to personal responsibility and i dont believe success in finance is indicitive of personal responsibility.

if i dont take rented movies back i accept responsibility, pay debt owed then punish myself with no rentals for 6 months to account for the money i spent on late charges.

stuff comes to us in life. it is how we deal with the things we are given. i have no control over my mom committing suicide. i do have control over what i do with her event.

tell you something being poor has given me. if i were to lose everything i have today, i know i would still be ok, there is not a fear of loss. i know how to do poor. and things are not what gives me my joy in life. it is those around me i love

[Cleita]

42. There is some merit to the argument in a perfect world, but

the way the conservatives apply it, it seems to apply to three-year-olds, the handicapped, the dying and various other demographics that don't have the means to effect personal responsibility. Also, you mention the environment, and it seems those corporations that are destroying the environment have no responsibility, according to them, whatsoever because it's business and that apparently overrides any other principle one might want to lob at them.