Is anyone else convinced Cheney will be dumped?

[Beatrix]

It's clear to me that bush is screwed at this point. Kerry is ahead in most polls and bush is certainly not winning people over. If he doesn't do something drastic it's obvious he will lose.

I'm convinced he will dump cheney for someone else. (possibly Guiliani) Even if he doesn't want to lose cheney there is little choice now so I expect them to do it. They can either maintain the status quo and lose (and thus get nothing) or lose cheney on the gamble the correct VP choice could give them the percentages they need.

I think Cheney will be dumped using the excuse that his medical problems no longer allow him to run for VP in good consciousness for the sake of the nation. This saves face, makes them look like they are putting the nation first, and let's them get rid of cheney with little negative consequence. Cheney goes on to retire and live comfortably the rest of his life.

I think Guiliani will then be picked because of the following. (Now it could be someone else, but he seems to have a lot of perks.)

A. He has good name recognition.

B. In enough peoples eyes to count for at least some of the vote he is liked for his handling of 9/11.

C. He is from NY. (although I SERIOUSLY doubt they could win NY even with Guiliani it's just another added potential benefit that might happen, and if it did just by its self could win them the election)

D. This gets rid of a ton of criticism for choosing NY for the repub national convention. Any claims that they are exploiting 9/11 for political purposes will be met with "No no! We chose NYC because we had planned on Guiliani being the VP. It's perfectly fitting for the VPs state to be chosen for the convention site. etc etc etc"

E. He's better than cheney all around. He's got a much cleaner slate in comparison, better health, probably better people skills, respect from some (re: 9/11), and he's good on camera. He has none of the baggage cheney does, and cheney doesn't do much to win people over.

F. I'm guessing on this one - but they MIGHT be able to spin any criticisms of Bush/Guiliani as an attack on the person who was a "hero" (in some peoples eyes) on 9/11. This could look VERY bad for us if they were able to do it right.

G. It prepares them for the future. I *seriously* doubt cheney would be medically fit to run for president in 2008. Guiliani, on the other hand, could continue the regime.

Basically Guiliani would change the face and style of the campaign. Cheney doesn't do much to get them votes, he isn't pretty on camera, and has few social skills the average voter is attracted to. Guiliani is also seen in more of a moderate light which will play to the middle.

Guiliani is weak on standard hard right repub issues. (i.e. abortion) However, he could always change his positions if needed. But I suspect even if he didn't it wouldn't effect them negatively. The christian fundamentalist and hard right base will still vote for them. (it puts them in the Green position) Will they vote 3rd party and let kerry in just because the VP doesn't fully represent them thus guaranteeing their issues are no longer provided for, or do they vote bush and still get their issues taken care of so long as he is in power?

Anyway - I don't see why they would NOT dump cheney at this point. It seems to me to be one of the few hopes they have left, and if they did it right could benefit them a lot. Does anyone else find this likely?

[AlinPA]

1. I agree with you about Cheney & Guliani, but what about Colin Powell?

[Blue Wally]

9. Colin Powell??

Not sure if he would want it, but certainly a bold choice.

[Endangered Specie]

31. I dont think Colon Powell will get anywhere...

Im suprised hes still around.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VolcanoJen]

37. There you go again!!!

Thought you'd like that... it's a nod to your hero!!!

Hey... do you actually choose the threads to spam in, or just close your eyes and CLICK?

Curious, I'm doing a study on the Moranic Species,
Jennifer

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VolcanoJen]

40. LOL!! Hang around awhile and learn the meaning of "Moran."

No typo, buddy! Such a silly, silly poster. Joke's on you, my friend.

Normally I'm nicer, but The Reagasm has gotten to me...

[DrWeird]

42. You know, the only people stupider than G.W. Bush...

are the retards who would vote for him twice.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lancdem]

48. I don't want it to happen again, either

[salonghorn70]

43. I Post Moderate Stuff All The Time

I even post DLC kind of stuff. I'm so middle of the road that I'm out there with the dead possums. I'm still alive and kicking. Deleted? Not me. I'm just nice to other posters and not rude. By the way, its just politics. Get a sense of humor.

I do agree with you that Reagan was a popular President. As Democrats, we could learn something from that. Carter was a very weak President. Mondale was a terrible candidate. I have always thought that the country wanted a change in 1988 and we come up with another terrible candidate.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bridget Burke]

47. Reagan always showed up well dressed because Nancy dressed him.

It was well known that he was pretty much out of it throughout most of his time in the White House.

Of course, even with dementia, he could still speak better than your hero.

[lancdem]

49. I'm pretty sure Clinton didn't wear jeans in the Oval Office

much at all. But I see your point and don't completely disagree. I'm glad that you at least appreciated Clinton's competence, even as you saw his flaws.

[salonghorn70]

51. Oval Office Dress Code

viperdriver, BTW, welcome to DU :hi:

I'm a pretty casual kind of guy. The Republicans love to talk about how they all dress up in coat and tie in the Oval Office. As far as I am concerned, respect for the Oval Office or the institution of the Presidency doesn't depend on what you wear. It does depend on doing the right things for the people of this country.

[Deja Q]

67. If the Presidency is nothing more than charisma and persona,

we've been getting screwed for quite some time.

Carter was strong and, unlike any of the buggers after his time, gave a fuck to mention his concerns of oil and finding a replacement. Look where his UNPARALLELED STRENGTH got him.

And Jocelyn Elders, another one with a mouth and some guts to speak her mind. Speaking up got her canned too.

These two people are not weak. Not in the slightest. Saying who is weak would be very unpopular and I myself am just as weak...

[lanparty]

74. ABSOLUETLY, CARTER was a better president than Reagan !!!

We've been brow-beaten and talked down to by a right wing media.

Carter DEFEATED gas lines in the 70s. He didn't CREATE them. That honor goes to NIXON!!!!!

[lancdem]

46. I'm not sure you understand what the purpose of DU is

It's NOT place for debate among people across the ideological spectrum. It was founded when Bush was sworn in by people who wanted to see him out of office in 2004 (or sooner).

BTW, Reagan was popular, but the media has made him out to be even more popular than he was. His approval ratings during much of second term, because of Iran-Contra, were under 50 percent.

[Kahuna]

2. I think they are weighing putting Guiliani in. Though it may...

not be feasible. Guiliani is a crime buster. So... :shrug: That may not work... Guiliani can be very unpredictable. Also, Guiliani's positions on gays, adultery and abortions would cost bush his fundie base.

Still, I think it is very tempting for bushco to consider Guiliani if for no other reason so that they can save face during their upcoming disastrous convention in NYC. Sure. They're weighing the pros and the cons.

[shraby]

4. I don't think the v.p. pick is

all that important. A v.p. doesn't have any authority (isn't supposed to) except to break tie votes. As far as I would guess, Bush has cooked his goose and nothing is going to help keep him from losing the election except cooked voting machines or to get charged for war crimes.

[Beatrix]

7. A VP is very important if you pick a popular one

For example, if Bush came out today with Hitler as his VP he'd get single digit percentage points.

If he came out with Jesus him self as his VP he'd get a landslide.

Obviously these are two extreme examples - but a VP who is popular/unpopular enough with the masses can change the vote by at least a few percentage points in most states.

Yes, if you pick one that no ones has any emotion for it won't do much.

[Kahuna]

16. Cheney was helpful to bush in 2000. So, conventional wisdom does..

take a holiday at times.

[silverlib]

3. I also think that Kerry will hold off in announcing a

vice-presidential choice because he suspects this might happen, although I don't know if he can hold off long enough since our convention is so much earlier.

[soothsayer]

5. Not only Cheney, but * will be dumped, too! Watch him drop out for

health reasons. Then they might attempt to run Guilliani, but it will be too late. (Also...once dumbya bails, Kerry may bail right behind him.)

So...if that prediction doesn't pan out, I don't think guilliani will want to soil his reputation by running with chimpy. Why dash his own presidential hopes by hitching his wagon to that miserable failure?

[H2O Man]

6. Yes.

Cheney has crossed too many people, and I do not mean merely democrats. He made a couple serious mistakes. He will be indicted in the CIA outting, likely on July 14th. Though he will in time get a pardon from bush, he will not be in the November election ..... except in MoveOn. commercials!

[lancdem]

17. Wow

where are you hearing Cheney might be indicted July 14? I never heard a specific date before. Please elaborate!

[H2O Man]

22. Well, you should read DU more!

I've said that several times. Why that date? Hmmm..... if I said I'm psychic, you'd laugh; if I said I'm psychotic, you might not take that date seriously; and if I said that a memberof my family was in ONI, you would avoid my posts. (grin) Buy a bottle of very good wine before that date: should I be wrong, at least you'll have the wine. But, when the shit hits the fan, you will be prepared to fully enjoy watching Fox News folks freak.

[lancdem]

24. Hey, I read DU religiously!

Sorry I missed your earlier posts on this. :hi:

(BTW, what's ONI?)

[H2O Man]

28. It's the office

of naval intel .... dispite some folks saying that the different MIs compete or have poor communication with CIA, the truth is that no one who understands the implications and the consequences of what the VP's office did to try to hurt Wilson (exposing his wife) wants these jerk-offs in office. There are some mistakes that you don't get a free pass on .... Cheney and Rove done made some serious mistakes, and now they gotta pay their dues.

[lancdem]

30. Thanks for the explanation

I really hope you're right!

[lovedems]

8. I noticed a window sign yesterday and all it said was

George W. Bush 2004. (:puke: )

I haven't thought Cheney would be dumped this late in the stage but now I am beginning to wonder.

[kaitykaity]

10. No way. Cheney's the president.

Guiliani is a no go as well. He has wife/girlfriend
baggage that would sour the Thug religo-wacknut base.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

15. I dont see Giuliani as VP pick either.

If this is a real story, Id expect Bush to pick someone like Tom Ridge. Giuliani is too "liberal" for the GOP to be picked as VP.

[vpigrad]

25. Sigh

> he has wife/girlfriend baggage...

So did Raygun, but they still love him! Raygun abandoned his family to run-off with another woman. The repubs still love him. Remember, they're all hypocrites so Guiliani's abuse of his wife won't hurt him politically with those nuts!

[kaitykaity]

27. Reagan wasn't in office when the thing with Jane and Nancy

happened.

Rudy was mayor of NYC and he had a wife he was divorcing
and a girlfriend who was spending the night at the mayor's
mansion.

The Thugs might all be hypocrites, but they would never be
stupid enough to give us this weapon to use against them
with the undecideds.

[Andromeda]

61. Reagan didn't leave his first wife (Jane Wyman)

for Nancy. He met Nancy after Jane Wyman divorced him. Ronnie didn't want the divorce and from all reports he was crazy about Wyman but she tired of him. She said he was too clingy and depended on her too much. That bored her so she gave him the boot!

[dxbiker]

72. Jesus Christ

The broke up because of political beliefs. Reagan was becoming much to conservative for Jane. He was so involved that he let it get between them. When they did split, Reagan said he missed being loved, but didn't miss the X.

Then he married Nancy had two kids, one was a son and named him Ronald Prescott not Ronald Wilson which would have made him a Jr. but there is NO jr

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

11. Maybe....I think Cheney would become a liability due to Plame.

...but only if this case hits close to home for him, if Scooter LIddy is indicted..that would raise all sorts of questions about Cheney as Liddy is his COS.

So Cheney could be a political liability. The problem is if Cheney steps down during a Plame scandal blowup like that, it will raise even more suspicipions.

[graywarrior]

13. Maybe he'll pick poppy.

Bush Bush 2004.

[Bryan]

50. Wow, that makes a LOT of sense

True, GHW would be exposing himself to a degree that he's tried to avoid during this administration, but he could better protect his interests with a tight hand on the reins.

Besides, the base would love it; George Herbert, squirrelly as he is, is a damned sight more competent and reassuring than his boy, and the all-Bush team would reinforce the notion of a comforting, all-encompassing dynasty (the Repub equivalent of, say, an RFK Jr./Ted Kennedy ticket, though I hope we wouldn't all fall for that kind of corn).

[Blue Wally]

32. Cheney Doesn't Have To Step Down

He just clutches his chest in the middle of a photo op, his aides help himoff into another room, word comes that he has suffered another heart attack, GWB announdces that Cheney is too ill to continue on the ticket. Cheney cannot attend further hearings because he is in intensive care at Walter Reed.

[merh]

58. But we all know he is not at Walter Reed

He will be in his bunker with his shadow government, pulling the strings, working his puppets!

[T Town Jake]

62. Agreed....

...that's the most likely scenario.

BTW, welcome to DU. :hi: I'm a newbie too!

[kymar57]

36. But what would Cheney do

With all those strings??

[beachman]

12. it'd be a smart move, but....

The Bush team tends to circle the wagons.

Guilani would help.

Powell might even tip the scale.

Keeping Cheney seems dumb, but...

[quinnox]

14. It certainly would shake things up

Although odds are such a radical move won't take place,I wouldn't completely discount the possibility if Bush and the gang get desperate enough.

But I don't buy the Giuliana pick, I would guess someone more to the right and also unexpected. In other words if this did happen the VP pick would not be a part of the public inner circle of the Bush team.

[dwilson]

18. I agree it won't be Cheny again,

but I'm betting on Condi. If not her then maybe Colin will change his mind and run as the #2 man. Then we would be seriously screwed. Who could we put up against Colin; please don't say McCain.

[lancdem]

21. I don't really think it will matter in the long term

who Bush picks. The election will be about him.

[Joanne98]

19. God I hope not

Cheney's like gangrene on a wounded leg. Keep him where he is.

[NNadir]

20. I think the question is better put will Cheney dump Bush.

I think Cheney is increasingly disturbed by the fact that Bush has begun to think he actually is President.

[terrya]

23. I'm not. Cheney will be on the ticket.

For one of the extremely rare times, I take Bush at his word. It will be Bush/Cheney. There's NO WAY Guilani will past muster with the Relgious Right. They''ll bolt if Guiliani is chosen.

[TheFarseer]

26. I think the whole point is to have Chenny

as the real president. Chenny didn't help get any votes in 2000 and he wont now, but he's the president and he's not dropping himself. Gigliani I don't really think would do that much outside of the NE. Powell would help but he might conflict with GW and send out a mixed message that would be weird. Condi might actually be good. Can you see her in a debate with Clark or Edwards getting torn apart because she's a fucking incompetent dumbass that can't think for herself. GW himself is not going anywhere. Do you have any idea how bad that would look. Not renominating the incumbent is almost unprecedented and it would be the GOP admitting that they have been completely wrong the last 4 years. Won't happen.

[mitchum]

29. I've had my money on Rudy Combover replacing Cheney for a couple of...

years now. It will happen.

[Wapsie B]

33. I can't think of any

repug with national name recognition that wouldn't piss off the rw fundies. Maybe I'm overlooking someone. But other than Rudy or McCain who else is there? Quayle?

[NashVegas]

34. Me Me Me Me Me Me

Bush doesn't stand a chance of getting re-elected with Cheney on the ticket.

I really hope Cheney stays on the ticket. But I don't believe he will be.

[welshTerrier2]

35. they want to keep Cheney but ...

they may not be able to ... if the pace of the investigations continues, Cheney won't be around by the Republican convention ... Dirty Dick is going down ...

they won't give up on Cheney easily though ... the real liability on the ticket is bush, not Cheney ... and without Cheney, bush is an even weaker candidate ...

if they are forced to dump Cheney, they'll hold out as long as they can (up to a point) ... the timing of replacing him will be critical ... i expect they'll do this only if they really need to introduce a new dynamic into the race ... if Kerry builds a very strong lead and nothing else they try is working, this could be their "one last roll of the dice" to try to shake things up ...

and Giuliani? i think they could do much better ... Giuliani may be a somewhat likeable fellow to some with a positive image coming out of 9/11, but he comes with all sorts of baggage and no national experience (especially foreign policy experience) ... I think his selection would really be a sign of desperation ...

[Sagan]

39. Yeah, Cheney's gone.....

I definitely think he's the power behind the throne, but at the end of the day, they can't get rid of Chimpy and they are going to become increasingly desperate.

I'm not convinced they'll take Giuliani, though. It's potentially do-able for them, since their convention is so late it might be just a small enough window that Giuliani's real stance on things like abortion and gays and such might not leak out to the fundy right.

[MrSlayer]

41. I don't know about this, Cheney runs the show.

He really is the President even though he's on the bottom of the ticket, I don't see him giving up his power.

[Blue Wally]

69. Special Advisor To the President?

He can still do what he does, but "Health" reasons preclude him from having a "full-time" job in the administration. I don't think that Cheney sees anything in it like Cheney for President in 2008, so ego wouldn't be a problem.

[Yupster]

52. I don't see why Bush will keep Cheney

but it sure looks like he's going to.

He has a chance to be historic. I'm surprised he will pass it up.

[Norquist Nemesis]

53. If Bush dumps Cheney it will be a big hole to fill

in Bush's ass!

He won't dump Cheney...the snake's got too much bite.

[kaiso]

54. Gulianni is pro-choice, the Christian right would not support Bush. nt

[seabeyond]

55. i heard one that made sense

rudy in vp and place cheney sec of state or something. cheney will still have his secret government and bush will be able to run with rudy. i dont see bush giving cheney up ever though

[mountainvue]

56. Without

Cheney, they got nothin'. He's the man behind the curtain pulling all the strings. W is just the puppet.
Giuliani is a done deal unitl people can foget about the girlfriend being shacked up in the mansion when he wasn't even divorced. No, no. Giuliani is not as popular as many think he is.

[silverlib]

57. He wouldn't possibly pick Tom Delay, would he?

Another Texan?? Naw, but wouldn't that be an awful combination?

[mockmonkey]

64. I'm not positive but I believe

that shrub can't have a running mate from the same state as himself. I think Cheney might have been living in Texas but then had to show he was from Wyoming....or from the fiery pits of Hell.

[TruthIsAll]

59. Nice try, but: WHY DUMP CHENEY WHEN YOU HAVE DIEBOLD/ES&S?

Its in the bag. The bytes don't care who is VP. Why should Bush?

[ButterflyBlood]

60. It won't be Guiliani

he's far too liberal

[texas is the reason]

63. i still think we can beat bush/guiliani, but if he picks McCain, we are ..

FVCKED!!!!with rudy, the question would still be essentially the same- are you TERRA-fied by 9-11 or are you tired of the fear-mongers who are subverting our freedom in the name of the terr-ah! Rudy=9/11,..and i think we are winning that battle. But picking mccain could be seen as shrub "turning over a new leaf", and people may want to give him a second chance because of it... especially if they already like mccain (and many, many people do!) You would be hard pressed to find anyone who dislikes mccain that isn't a "yellow-dog" democrat- and we are not competing for democratic votes.. we all are voting against the chimp no matter what.

[OpSomBlood]

65. Bush will ask Powell, Powell will say no. He'll go with Giuliani.

n/t

[Blue Wally]

70. Powell Might Accept

If GHWB really put a press on him, Colin Powell might well accept the VP nod. Colin Powell and GHWB have always been very close. They admire and respect each other.

[Deja Q]

66. They're more likely to pull that "October surprise" than for * to dum

Cheney. Esepcially if * has said he's keeping Cheney.

[Blue Wally]

71. Biggest problem With Dumping Cheney

Whoever gets the VP nod in 2004 will be the front-runner for GOP presidential nomineee in 2008. Cheney doesn't care about it and thus is no threat to Jeb Bush in 2008.

[Nlighten1]

68. It doesn't matter if Cheney is dumped.

There will be another snake like him to take his spot.

[lanparty]

73. Giuliani ... NEVER ...

The Fundies will NOT accept Giuliani on their ticket!!! And, Giuliani is NO LONGER popular in New York now that it's come out that he did NOTHING to update the emergency communication equipment between 93' and 2000.

If it comes out that Cheney is the Plame leaker, he will resign from the ticket for "health reasons". Look for some synchophantic fundie congressman/senator/governor to replace Cheney in that instance.

Then, after the election, Cheney would become Chief of Staff and take up his old position as de-factor Prime Minister.

[Snellius]

75. I think it will be Ridge

Cheney looked completely forlorn and wasted at the RR funeral.