There's NO evidence Kerry wanted McCain or that Kerry is pushing the story

[chimpy the poopthrower]

There is NO evidence that Kerry EVER wanted McCain as VP, and NO evidence that the Kerry people are the ones pushing this story!

If anyone can find ONE named source making this claim, I'd like to see it. The AP's Ron Fournier is the one who wrote the most recent story about it:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040611/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_mccain.

Here is some information about Ron Fournier that suggest he is biased and untrustworthy:
http://www.campaigndesk.org/archives/000304.asp
http://www.bopnews.com/archives/000068.html
http://www.moltz.net/~john/blog/archives/000672.html


Here is a bit from the Daily Howler pointing out the ludicrousness of the idea:
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh052204.shtml

Journalists almost never know what they’re talking about when they kill time with VP ruminations. But we were especially struck by the oddness of last week’s (mid-May) report in the Times. Three days before the piece appeared, McCain appeared on Hannity & Colmes–and he said, for the three millionth time, that he wouldn’t be Kerry’s running-mate. But the Arizonan also said this: “I’m supporting President Bush, and I am–I am proud of President Bush’s record on defense.” As even the Times can probably see, that would be a very odd view coming from a Kerry VP. An earlier exchange had gone like this:

HANNITY: On defense issues, the most important issue of our time, your guy is George W. Bush, right?

MCCAIN: He is my guy. I’m campaigning for him. I’m supporting his re-election. I want him to be re-elected. I believe he has led this nation with moral clarity.

How strange would it be–for Kerry to pick a running-mate who believes that George W. Bush, Kerry’s opponent, “has led the nation with moral clarity?” Who is “proud of President Bush’s record on defense?” Whatever one thinks of John McCain–and many millions of people admire him–that would be a very strange choice. But nothing will stop the nation’s press when they want to kill time with this topic. They never know who the pick will be; they’re always wrong in their VP predictions; but they love to waste time with their pointless recitations. If they didn’t talk about this, after all, they might have to talk about something that mattered! This year, though, can we set one rule? The next time they waste your time with this story, can we ask them to explain how Kerry could possibly seek the White House with a running-mate who is “proud of Bush’s record on defense” and who thinks that Bush, Kerry’s opponent, “has led this nation with moral clarity?” Can we require them to explain this point when they kill time with this topic?


There is NO evidence that Kerry EVER was considering McCain. There is also NO evidence that Kerry is helping to push this story. In my opinion, it definitely doesn't make Kerry look "bipartisan" as much as it makes him look weak. Even if Kerry had been talking to McCain, why would anyone in Kerry's inner circle leak this information? If people believe the story, whomever Kerry chooses as his running mate now will be viewed as a second choice.

There has been both an LBN thread and a GD thread on this already, and I hate to start a new thread. But some of us are trying very hard to debunk this, and it seems like a lot of the people responding on those threads are not even paying attention.

[NMDemDist2]

1. even if JK's staffers are "leaking" it, it may be worth it to

see Karl Rove's head explode.

that is the best part of all these McCain for VP rumors :evilgrin:

[chimpy the poopthrower]

4. that's assuming the story hurts Bush more than Kerry

I don't see the story as doing much harm to Bush.

[Warpy]

2. I've said this for MONTHS

This is a NON-ISSUE. This is a RIGHT WING WET DREAM. It's as likely as the POPE ON A POGO STICK!

End of rant.

[NJCher]

3. they know they're going to lose and lose big

It's their last best shot.


Cher

[wurzel]

24. A way of dissing his real choice as "second string"!

It is a mystery to me why any Democrat would trust anything the press prints or airs.

[wurzel]

25. message deleted

n/t

[chimpy the poopthrower]

5. looks like it's time for another kick

:kick:

[chimpy the poopthrower]

6. Okay, I don't care how much of a faux pas it is to kick my own thread.

I'm making it my mission for the time being to debunk this crap. What's frustrating is that I keep posting this info on the threads that accept the Kerry-McCain offer as fact, and no one seems to pay any attention. Somebody, at least tell me why I'm wrong!

[Generator]

7. Thank you!

This is exactly as I suspected. And some are ready to "write off" Kerry for something he hasn't even done!

Why are Democrats always their own worst enemies? Second time I ask today-and see Moore thread>

(oh and Screw you Moore, Dean was the best thing to happen to the Dems in many years, keep your trap shut if you can't say something nice, so he didn't kiss your butt like Clark, and that's your criteria?)

[sendero]

13. WHY OH WHY....

.... doesn't Kerry simply come out and say that none of this happened?

One theory is it is a tweak at Rove. How simply wonderful, lets tweak Rove at the expense of our own credibility.

The other is that Kerry actually thinks this will "help" his campaign. Of course, Kerry's staff knows more about political campaigns than I do, but I think just the opposite. I think it makes us (Dems) look weak and desparate. Americans arent' interested in "bipartisanship". Look up the "Spite the Vote" article to see the best analysis of the American voter's psyche I've ever read. Read it twice. This is how it is. This is why so many voters vote against their own interests.

[blm]

8. The Kerry detractors don't care about the truth.

They really LIKE to spread the lies against him. They won't bother to show up on the threads that prove them wrong.

[ibegurpard]

9. True or not?

Kerry spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter's response to this story was "no comment?"

[chimpy the poopthrower]

10. they're probably tired of denying it.

How many times can "journalists" ask them the same stupid question? I believe the legal phrase is "asked and answered".

[blm]

11. Kerry already said he likes the way it drives Rove nuts.

That has been posted many times over the last two months.

And the campaign has also consistently said they would not comment on ANY discussions of the VP decisionmaking process.

Twist and shout all you want, just know that some of us notice the twisting while others only hear the shouts.

[ibegurpard]

14. What is it BLM?

A LIE or great strategy? Because it seems that the twisting is being done by those who think it's just great to offer the VP slot to a conservative Republican. Depending on the discussion, it's either a pack of lies or it's great strategy. The latest story said that the potential of the VP slot was brought up numerous times with McCain. Is that a lie? Then why does the Kerry campaign not deny it instead of saying no comment? This bullshit is making it very hard for those of us who don't like Kerry to find a reason to pull the lever for him.

[blm]

21. Is the REPORTER telling the truth?

The speculation about McCain started over two years ago when McCain was asked about Kerry and he said that Kerry would make a very good president. The immediate conclusion drawn by the punditry was that the two would team up against Bush.

Now the story gets promoted for a variety of reasons but why is this latest report being given the credibility when there has NEVER been a single verified account that Kerry asked McCain?

[ibegurpard]

23. Okay.

If this is a LIE, and I would be perfectly willing to accept that explanation, the Kerry campaign can say so instead of "no comment." What I'm getting is "it's a lie" AS WELL AS "this is great strategy"(which I vehemently disagree with). Believe me, I really, really want to feel confident about voting for Kerry and when I hear that it's great strategy to promote a conservative Republican for VP from his supporters then I DO NOT feel that way. Not only that, but I get "no comment" from the Kerry campaign when this has been speculated about for months and they have tacitly encouraged the speculation.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

27. Kerry isn't commenting on ANYBODY

He can't deny that X is under consideration and then start taking the 5th when reporters ask about Y and Z. He said he wouldn't comment at all, and he's sticking to that.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

26. I love the truth.

It's sourced to an anonymous democrat. http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/11/kerry.mccain.ap/

I'm just as likely to believe that it's a function of McCain's ego as an overture from Kerry. Iow, both scenarios are unknown. I submit that nothing has been proven yet and probably never will be.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

29. or it could be a function of Ron Fournier's imagination

Although it seems like there are a lot of stories about this, there is actually only one recent story by Ron Fournier of AP. They keep reposting it on Yahoo news, etc. They change the headline every so often, and sometimes rearrange the paragraphs and remove his name as author, but it's essentially still just his original story over and over.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

31. Yep.

See #30 for a fuller flushing out of my thinking. (That'd be 3)

[gasperc]

12. What will the GOP do to Bush if they lose the house and Senate?

as well as the presidency?

fighting for dear life

[Jade Fox]

15. Seems like a effort to make Kerry look desparate....

Begging McCain to be VP, and them being turned down.

I've wondered about this too. I smell the Rove machine.

[ibegurpard]

16. FINE! I can accept that!

Then why the "no comment" instead of a categorical denial from the Kerry campaign???? :grr:

[Jade Fox]

17. Good question.....

[Pepperbelly]

18. i think they've categorically said ....

they would not comment on the VP selection process.

If they addressed it, I suspect Rove would have it on a commercial with waffles and stuff. :eyes:

[chimpy the poopthrower]

22. exactly

Imagine this exchange:


REPORTER: Are you considering McCain as your running mate?

KERRY: No.

REPORTER: Are you considering (insert name of choice) as your running mate?

KERRY: No comment.


See? Kerry can't comment on one without commenting on all.

[many a good man]

19. McCain is pushing the story

He wants to step into the breech after Junior steps one too many landmines. He'll have such high poll numbers that we won't even have to bother to have an election...

[UTUSN]

20. 1-FERGIT McCAIN. 2-the sooner WE FERGIT McCAIN-the-Better

McCAIN should NEVER HAVE BEEN. Uh, we are -------------DEMOCRATS---------can we REMEMBER THAT/?????????????????????? Ehhhhhhhhhhhhh?????????

[Astarho]

28. ?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=453766

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

30. What was Deep Throat's name?

Absence of a named source neither proves nor disproves the allegation. It's one of five possibilities:

1) McCain enjoys attention.

1a) McCain, in cahoots with the Republican party, instigates an effort to undermine the credibility of the Dem party to be able to rule without a Pug hand near the helm.

2) Kerry genuinely asked or trial ballooned.

2a) Kerry strategically asked in order to up his street cred with the center vote, while never intending to do so.

3) The media made it up

4) Kerry never asked. (see 1, 1a and 3)


All are possible. All are just as likely. (I tend to believe 2a, fwiw)



On edit: I missed Pitt's thread, referenced by #28, so maybe 2 is looking more likely than 2a. :shrug:

[chimpy the poopthrower]

32. Right. That's why I was careful to say...

...that there was NO EVIDENCE that Kerry was considering McCain or that Kerry is the one pushing the story. Sure, it's possible that either one is true. It's also possible that Kerry is from another planet. But there is no evidence of that, and the burden of proof is on the person(s) making the claim. People can have their own opinions, but I think it's unwise to trust some hack reporter citing unnamed sources to the point where people are ready to give up on Kerry or hold this against him. All I'm saying is consider the author, consider the sensible points brought up in Daily Howler, and take this story with a grain of salt instead of accepting everything in print or online as gospel truth.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

33. There is SOME evidence. The story itself. Pitt's thread.

You have to decide on the reliability of the source(s) via your own personal filter. Seldom are things cut and dried.

The importance of this issue is also debatable depending on whether you think it offers insight on Kerry's/McCain's/Media's/Party thinking, or not. My advice is to assign it a medium-low weight and tuck it in a corner of your brain for future reference.

[mellowinman]

34. Hey man...

you are exactly right on this! When in fuck has Kerry EVER floated the McCain for VP suggestion? That's just stupid.

It's always the same. A bunch of drooling idiot talking heads start spewing conjecture about a bunch of bullshit, and everybody in the press, and half the people on the web start treating it like God's truth.

Gore "lied."

Kerry "doesn't stand for anything."

Do you people read the Daily Howler? Man; that is one website that spells this shit out but fucking QUICK!

The line in the press that "Kerry is too elite for the people because..."

(are you ready for this?)

HE PLAYS SPANISH GUITAR!!!!

Man! I'm thinking, "yeah, I was all set to go for him, and then I heard about that Spanish Guitar, and now I'm writing in fucking Jesse Ventura."

I mean, for fuck's sake, people!

Most likely, it will be Kerry/Edwards who will destroy Bush and his evil robot.

Kerry/McCain. Give me a fucking BREAK!

[Solidarity]

35. Kerry Wanted McCain

Kerry wanted McCain. No real doubt about it.

[mellowinman]

36. Wrong.

I say you are WRONG. I say you cannot provide a link to a credible source that proves Kerry "wanted" McCain.

PROVE what you say.

PROVE IT!

You say "No real doubt about it."

I say "Wrong."

Prove your point.

Link please.

No opinion articles.

[wiggs]

37. RNC leaked it

...in case they need McCain to be their candidate for president. If BA is down 10 points by convention time and facing three, four serious investigations they may jump ship instead of sinking with him. McCain is getting a lot of press. What other Republican (living) has been getting so much air time? McCain is Plan B, and Plan A is looking worse every day. RNC, Congressional leaders, the VRWC, and Major Donors are keenly aware of the seriousness of this summer's F-911 movie, Clinton's book, 9/11 Commission report, SCOTUS rulings, Abu Ga-remp investigation findings, Plame stuff and a dozen other problems. More aware than most of us, probably.

Bush and Rove can firmly place their heads in the sand and do a pretty good imitation of Baghdad Bob, but RNC is in charge of reality, votes and servicing donors. How many phone calls from how many $100,000 donors would it take before it's clear that "stay the course" isn't an effective answer? There must be a Plan B.

Also, Kerry's camp is too shrewd to have a real leak like that get out from them...doesn't sound right.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

38. that makes a lot of sense (nt)