If you like Jesus, you'll hate "The Passion."

[genius]

"The Passion" is for Jesus-haters who love the idea of seeing him covered in blood and tortured for two hours. They left out the most important part-Jesus's life. The movie treats Jesus as if he life meant nothing or worse than nothing. As a Christian who thinks the teachings of Jesus were important, I found the film unterly offensive and anti-Christ.

[Walt Starr]

1. The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre

No need for me to see it, I read the book.

[malatesta1137]

2. I could NOT

have put it better myself.

[Sean138]

3. You're a true Christian, but...

Unfortunately, yours is a minority opinion. To the rest of american "christian" society...

"If you hate The Passion, you hate Jesus".

It's a shame that most of the real Christians don't stand up to this stuff.

[Kid_A]

4. Did you see the Passion episode of South Park?

Stan and Kenny go see "The Passion" and are pissed off that it's just a two-hour snuff film, and they try to get their money back from Mel Gibson. That show is one of the most consistently funny and smart shows on TV.

[soleft]

5. Anyone who wants Frank Rich's intestines on a stick

has nothing to say to me about Jesus.

I'd rather see a Tarantino film about Ghandi.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

9. ROFL!

[sui generis]

6. the whole christian thing confuses me utterly

I was raised as a secular humanist (and proud of it), so even the biblical view that a deity (and not just any old deity but YOU KNOW WHO) would allow his son to be tortured to death for everyone else's "sins" just seems kind of cruel, barbaric and irrational. It doesn't fill me with awe -- it creeps me out. The movie merely brought this core fact home for me again.

[Stew225]

10. The, well, now wait a minute, some Christians

might say something like "you're either for us or against us".

[Tigermoose]

24. You forget that Jesus is God as well.

The Trinity is a confusing concept, but the familial relationship of Jesus as the Son of God is just a close explanation as to how Jesus is the Word that was begotten by the Father. So when Jesus died on the Cross, it was God dying on the cross for us. To help thinking of the Trinity, think of how a cube has 3 dimensions -- vertical line, horizontal line, and a line for width. All together, they make up a real cube in 3 dimensions, yet you can still look at these three parts that are essential to the whole. Jesus was the temporal manifestation of the Word so that we could better understand God as well as being a sacrifice that made it possible for Jesus to serve as a bridge from the physical to the spiritual plane of existence. The Holy Spirit can be thought of as the Love that binds the Father and Son together, and yet has an essence all its own. The HS is the will of the Father that the Son always obeys. Yet all are still One God--like a cube is still one cube.

[sui generis]

34. but cube or not

on topic, personally, I could not choose to believe in a god or God who thought it necessary to "die" for my minor sins. I am responsible for my sins and for making it up to the people I have hurt, intentionally or otherwise. Dying on the cross seems like the worst possible thing that people in the year 0 could think of. The fact that death and pain and "suffering" has to be equated with the only way to wash clean the sins of the world as a core tenet of that belief system deeply disturbs me. I know that there are more productive things that he could have done than that Grand Gesture, even back then. I know that all the innocents who have been murdered in his name over the past two thousand years are still just as dead and have missed their chance at this life and its joys and sorrows, whatever they suppose the afterlife to be. And somehow it means considerably less to me that someone who is pretty much immune from death would go ahead and die knowing that he'd be back in a couple of days. And then there's the whole predetermination thing with Judas, and the doubting Thomas thing ticks me off too. When I was six years old I determined for myself that if it turns out that there is a God and a Jesus who are spiteful enough to send me to some silly version of hell for not having faith, then I sure wouldn't want to have believed in them my entire life anyway when I could have been doing good deeds for the sake of goodness itself, and not out of fear of unholy punishment or faith in the unseen. As an adult now I think that if there is a Jesus waiting around in the afterlife after all the crap that's supposed to happen to a perfectly wonderful world and people at the end of days, and if I haven't been sent straight off to hell with a first class ticket, that guy has got some 'splainin' to do, and I mean directly and not through his many human mouthpieces. I don't want hypothetical metaphysical explorations of consubstantiation versus transubstantiation, I want to know what in the hell he was doing while supposedly good christians were running around preaching love and practicing hate in his name for the past few thousand years. Did he take a wrong turn on the way here and get lost? Well anyway, I'm really not bitter - I just think that as humans we should live every day as if there is no afterlife. I think that we should be deeply respectful of life and its marvels, and that we should practice what is good because it's the "right" thing to do, and not because we're following some "spiritual leader" when we all have what it takes to be good inside of ourselves already.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

7. I'm a Christian and I refuse to see it

I know what happened. I've read about it. I don't need to see a Jesus snuff film and get off on the slo-mo pornographic grunting and close-ups of blood flying to get it.

I think it's kinda sick myself.

[Kilroy003]

8. I liked it.

While watching it I acutely realized how utterly sinful I am. I kept staring at Jesus being beaten then at the really hot chick who played Mary Magdeline. I know you're not supposed to notice how hot a chick is at times like that, but I did anyway.

[Kilroy003]

11. I should add that the "Passion"soundtrack is pretty good.

Mel Gibson picked the songs for it himself. Leonard Cohen, Nick Cave and Bob Dylan rock! There's also a pretty dope rendition of Ave Maria by the girl from the Cranberries. I would strongly suggest buying it, even if you didn't like the film.

[Nadienne]

15. Interesting...

The lead singer of the Cranberries... They had a song called "Zombie"; I thought it was anti-war, anti-violence...

Plus, aren't they Irish? And isn't the violence in Ireland largely based on religion?

Interesting...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. So, are you saying that the Romans were actually kindly...

...kindly, beneficient rulers who never beat anyone, much less crucify them?

Are you also saying that the period of time in which Christ lived was actually one filled entirely with peace and love?

I consider myself to be a Christian, but I do know that the Romans were pretty brutal when it came to executing prisoners. I also know that they were pretty brutal to those that they had conquered. They were especially brutal to those they perceived as encouraging and/or leading revolts. How does that make me, or anyone else that thinks like me, a Jesus-hater?

And wasn't the brutality and pain that Christ suffered leading up to and including his time on the cross the atonement for the sins of all mankind?

Do you really think that any of that somehow detracts from the teachings of Christ? Don't you believe that Christ comes across as an even stronger religio-historical figure by his willingness to be sacrificed for his beliefs?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TowelBoy]

20. That is disgusting

And I really think you should be ashamed of yourself. How dare you just attack people like that! I believe that Jesus died to save everybody, okay, every frikkin person on this planet, so what the hell are you going saying that I like this movie because I like torture?! I hate torture, I hate blood, and that is the point. Nobody (true... some do, but pretty much nobody) likes that shit, and nobody wants it inflicted on them. And I know lots of Christians who saw the movie would NOT get high off seeing people tortured, ESPECIALLY their own chidlren!

Way to take respecting other people's beliefs (what I and many others consider a LIBERAL concept) and smash it to death with a hammer! Congratulations, you just spit on the face of what I think it means to be liberal: respecting and caring about others no matter how much I may not want to.

Might as well be a repuke...

[Media_Lies_Daily]

33. You're welcome to your own opinion about Gibson's movie,...

...but I REALLY draw the line with your comment about most of the Christians who "loved the movies would also get off on seeing children (particularly their own) tortured."

How can you claim to be a Christian when you have thoughts like that going through your head?

And as far as your following comments: "Jesus had great things to say. What he said mattered.", you seem to be missing the point that what he suffered prior to his death and subsequent resurrection also mattered.

[TowelBoy]

13. Personally...

I loved the Passion. If you didn't want to see a movie about Jesus dying, go find one of the many about hsi life. The Passion of the Christ does not mean Christs' passion, "The Passion" is, according to the Church, the last 12 (I believe) hours of his life.

"The Passion" is for Jesus-haters who love the idea of seeing him covered in blood and tortured for two hours

The idea is to see the pain and horror and torment he went through so as to realize te suffering he did for us. That is my own personal belief, I'm not trying to ram it down anybody's throught like Bush, but that is what the movie was about, and people are just plain looking at it wrong.

"The movie treats Jesus as if he life meant nothing or worse than nothing"

The reason the rest of his life wasn't mentioned is because, as I pointed out, that's NOT the point. That's like saying "Saving Private Ryan" is awful because it treats the beginning of the war like it meant nothing and was pointless.

[op6203]

16. Good point

"That's like saying "Saving Private Ryan" is awful because it treats the beginning of the war like it meant nothing and was pointless."

[sui generis]

19. I just don't know what sins of mine are so dreadful

that a complete stranger would have to be tortured to death for them. I am responsible for myself. Guess that's why I just don't get "it", and don't want to.

[TowelBoy]

21. That's okay

And thank you. For showing that it is possible to disagree with someone without completely insulting them and their beliefs.

[SCantiGOP]

14. Here's what Pat Robertson has to say:

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2003/12/23mcintire.html is the link for the whole article:

A M E S S A G E F R O M
P A T R O B E R T S O N A N D
T H E "V O T E N O
O N J E S U S" C A M P A I G N

BY NATHAN MCINTIRE

- - - -

June 25, 2004

Fellow Christians,

The Second-Coming of Jesus Christ was a magnificent and joyous day for all. Interrupting a brand-new holiday episode of 7th Heaven with his divine electronic prowess, Jesus informed the world on the first night of Hanukkah that he would return on December 25, 2003, somewhere in Washington D.C. Cynics dismissed the announcement as a hoax, while the faithful flocked to churches everywhere in anticipation of Christ's reappearance. Doubts of His authenticity vanished on Christmas Day as He walked across the Potomac River and quietly addressed a breathless crowd gathering for the annual Anti-Kwanzaa rally at Christian Coalition headquarters. He connected with the masses as only Jesus can, mesmerizing on-lookers with profound messages of peace and hope. He outlined the steps necessary to steer the world toward a path of deliverance, stressing tolerance and compassion. With such virtuous ideals in mind, Jesus announced His intention to run for President of the United States. As President, Jesus insisted, He could rid the world of evil, unite humankind, end world hunger, and achieve eternal peace—shaping God's Land in the glorious image of Heaven.

And so it is with great sadness that I write this letter urging you to vote against Jesus Christ for President.

Just six months after His re-rebirth, it has become startlingly clear that Jesus has lost touch with America. Far from being a prudent Savior, Jesus has proven to be no more than a foolhardy liberal. Aligning Himself with the far-left minority, Jesus has adopted the lofty and politically correct delusions that have come to define the liberal elite. Nowhere is this more apparent than in Jesus' irresponsible welfare proposals and pleas for universal healthcare.

"Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you," he blathered at a recent Senate hearing on Social Security, simplifying a complex issue as only a liberal would. Indeed, Jesus' socialistic remarks have enraged many would-be contributors to his campaign. After I informed him of the hundreds-of-millions of dollars I have raised in the name of the Lord through my televangelism and holy African diamond-mine interests, he had the audacity to respond: "It is easier for a camel to fit through the head of a pin than for a rich man to enter heaven." Well, the Christian Broadcasting Network will not waste its time and money supporting a candidate unwilling to recognize the blessed virtue of free enterprise. Our hard-working, god-fearing supporters regularly pay tax and tithe and are unable to continue supporting the freeloaders that Jesus would have us aimlessly throw our money at. "Tax-And-Spend Jesus" wants us to believe that our hard-earned money should be pumped into godless public schools and the sinful homes of single-mother welfare queens.

[Wednesdays]

18. Hey, don'tcha know? Jesus died for our entertainment...

I flipped through a photo-book of the movie, and from what I could tell, I'm hardly interested in watching the film.

The gist of the story seemed to be: Jesus gets arrested at Gesthemene, gets beat up bloody, gets nailed to a cross, and dies. The end.

Uh, what's the message? At least, what message that wasn't put across more effectively by those old Charlton Heston flicks?

[Kilroy003]

22. That's what it's about.

But that is also what the "Passion" narrative is about. Read the bible, except for Judas' wierd LSD trip, Satan wandering about the place and a few other artistic liberties, the movie is pretty faithful to the gospels. Jesus didn't do much teaching throughout his arrest and crucifixion. I suppose he was a little preoccupied with being killed to teach much about peace or love.

[Wednesdays]

35. And no more?

Read the Bible? Good idea. I've done that and more, and I am quite acquainted with the story of the Passion. I've been a church choral leader for fourteen years, and have missed only five or six Sunday services over that time, and they read the Gospel at every service. I also played Jesus for a performance of Schutz' St. John's Passion.

My question is, what is it about this movie that makes it so special? The blood and guts? No thanks, I'll pass.

[Kilroy003]

36. It's not the blood and guts...

Granted, those things make this movie 'different' from most of Chuck Heston's films. I can't see how a flogging and crucifixion could be sanitary or any less violent. How would you have portrayed such? Would you simply have left those events out of the story? Were talking about a three hour movie based on no more than two pages of each of the four gospels. Sure, it could have been done in a ‘hallmark presents’ fashion, and it would be about fifteen minutes long.

To answer your question, this movie isn’t special, the man who this movie portrays is. You should know that.

If you haven’t seen the film, you should. If you don’t like it, go ahead and continue to dismiss it.

[Generator]

23. I agree!

Except I couldn't even watch the ads for it on TV-I found it that disturbing-and all I know is those that think this is the meaning of life are not my kind of people.

I find it CREEPY beyond belief that those that LOVE this man so, WANT to see him tortured to death.

I said it over and over, it's the teachings, not the death. IS this a death worshiping torture cult? It seems so.

I did, however, enjoy the Last Temptation of Christ. Here again, it's the sex that fundies just hate. I prefer sex to death and torture, myself.

[genius]

26. I like the part of "Last Temptation" where Paul was talking to Jesus

The part where Paul told Jesus that he didn't need to go back and die because they'd just make it up anyway is such a strong statement about what "Christian" groups have done to Jesus. I don't think that most Christians have any idea of what Jesus said or did. They just believe what they've been told by their churches.

[Aunt Anti-bush]

25. I have not been able to see it yet,

but others who did have told me that although it is very gory, it does show just how much Jesus suffered for our sins. Didn't it give that effect?

[donhakman]

27. Mel Brooks Version!

Gibson may do Moses just to even the score...

[genius]

28. The movie didn't show anything about our sins and you couldn't tell

what he was dying for except that the Jewish Priests wanted him killed. He was pretty passive but the characterization would have been the same if they were torturing and killing someone who had taken so many drugs that he had been braindamaged into passivity.

[Tigermoose]

29. Jesus was not just a great moral teacher.

He was also the sacrifical lamb that was sent to die and be resurrected, the perfect man despised by humanity, the bridge between God and Man, an example of perfect obedience to God's will, as well as God Himself who became like us to show us the Way -- to make it possible for us through His sacrifice, since we never could and never will be able to do that on our own. And he definitely was the Word that gives meaning to all existence, and in that he's got some great moral insights going for him as well! :)

[genius]

30. So why did he wait 33 years. Why didn't they kill him when he was born?

I think that his life was more important than his death.

[indigo32]

32. There are several issues I have with what you are saying here

just for the sake of discussion.

It all seems a great paradox to me. First of all I admit I have issues with the whole "perfect obedience" thing, and even greater issues with the whole hell for eternity thing. But those are my issues, God makes clear in Job that s/he is not big on being questioned. But even if all of this is the case eg... withstanding the other Gods that claim omnipotence, ect....
1. Jesus is either sent as an "example", which makes some sense, except we are basically all failing it. Or
2. There is some cosmic (whatever) balance that needs to be reached with his death. In which case... God isn't omnipotent after all.

[TNOE]

31. Just Another New World Order Tool

I saw it - although on a bootleg DVD - which I was so glad I did not waste the $8 - it was totally ridiculous. I knew there was some reason "they" (the unseen controllers, powers that be) wanted everyone to see this - immediately I was struck by the way that Jesus was portrayed as a "modern day cowboy"... I got it right then.

If you thought it was "moving" or "spiritual" - read the link below.



http://www.clydelewis.com/dis/godtold/godtold.htm

[killbotfactory]

37. They should put out a whole "Christian martyr" series.

Detailing the ways Christians were executed. I bet they could make a mint.