What's up with Robert Byrd & the KKK?

[jayavarman]

I've heard him described as KKK Bryd & there seems to be a good amount of stuff about it on the internet (that he was some kind of recruiter for the Klan) . . . But there's also lots of crap on the 'net too, so . . . .

Anyone know what the scoop is? I've gotta believe that if he was really a Klansman he would have had a whole lot of scrutiny come down on him & probably would have been made to resign from the senate.

Is this story for real?

[arcos]

1. Yes, it is for real... but he renounced the KKK a long time ago...

and now he has an excellent voting record on race issues.

Too bad he doesn't on sexual orientation.

[phillybri]

2. He was a member in his 20's...

He's since renounced that time and says it's his biggest regret...

[bluestateguy]

3. He was briefly a member in 1946

he was running for the WV House of Delegates that year--and won--and that was the in thing to do in his district. He only belonged for a few months and I am not aware of him ever holding any leadership positions or participating in any violent acts. Since the mid-1960's his voting record on civil rights issues has been to the liking of civil rights activists and black West Virginians.

[WilliamPitt]

4. "a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds," he wrote.

http://www.da.wvu.edu/archives/990904/news/990904,03,02.html

Byrd again grapples with Klan connection

CHARLESTON (AP) — A recently discovered 54-year-old letter has prompted Sen. Robert Byrd to return to a part of his past he says he’d rather forget.

Byrd, D-W.Va., said his membership in the Ku Klux Klan as a young man has “emerged throughout my life to haunt and embarrass me and has taught me, in a very graphic way, what one major mistake can do to one’s conscience, career and reputation.”

The seven-term senator responded to written questions from the Charleston Daily Mail, which reported his comments Thursday. Byrd’s membership in the Klan, which was an issue in his first campaign for the U.S. House of Representatives in 1952, was raised in a recent book, “When Jim Crow Met John Bull” published by St. Martin’s Press.

Author Graham Smith found a 1945 letter from Byrd to the late Mississippi Sen. Theodore Bilbo, who strongly backed segregation.
Byrd, who was 28 when he wrote the letter, told Bilbo he would never fight in an integrated armed forces.

“Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds,” he wrote.

President Harry Truman dismantled race barriers to the armed services in 1948. Byrd, 81, said he did not recall writing the letter but did not deny it. “I will not dispute the quote, though I consider it deplorable,” he said. “I am ashamed to be associated with such despicable sentiments.”

“Becoming involved with the KKK was the most egregious mistake I have ever made,” Byrd said. “Upon introspection, I find the entire episode difficult to understand. The only conclusion I can draw for myself is that I was sorely afflicted by a dangerous tunnel vision, the kind of tunnel vision that, I fear, leads young people today to join gangs or hate groups.”

...more...

[KoKo]

5. It doesn't take long for Byrd trashers to turn up just trying to diss his

new book. Working hard night and day.

[jayavarman]

8. Didn't even know he had a book.

A coworker was talking about this KKK stuff and it sounded like BS to me. I figured that there was no way a former klan member could be in the senate in the 21st century . . . figured that public uproar would force them out.

I guess I have to eat crow after telling my co-worker that i thought he was full of crap & shouldnt believe everything he hears on the radio.

[stavka]

40. What's clear is your co-worker hates freedom

[0007]

92. You could have googled for your questions, 'eh?

[WilliamPitt]

9. Read post #4

It's not wildly out of bounds to look at the facts. I love Senator Byrd, but it blows my mind he wrote that letter.

We bag on Rush for getting divorced, on Bush for doing coke and dodging the draft. Robert Byrd vowed to let the nation fall before he served with black people. He was only four years younger than I am now.

History is history, especially when you have the document in hand. I'd vote for him if I could, and publish his statements all the time.

But history is history.

[KoKo]

24. Why don't we drive him out of the Senate on a rail, then. He doesn't

belong there. He, who argued there on the Senate floor speaking as the lone voice to stop this P-Resident from invading a sovereign country. The one who told the truth about what would happen.

Hey Will! Do you regret you were a Nader supporter in 2000? Have you ever regreted what you've done in your "youth?"

"He who is without sin should caste the first stone."

[Just Me]

43. Well, because we reward those who exercise the choice to change. n/t

[theboss]

74. A little excitable?

Byrd was my Senator for over 2/3 of my life. I know him and have voted for him.

But this is not something we should just sweep under the rug. Let's face it: if he had an R by his name AND had also happened to filibuster the 1964 Civil Rights Act, we would not be saying to only look at his recent record.

[Cheswick2.0]

lame

He has long ago given up those views. It was what, 60 years ago?

:eyes:

[WilliamPitt]

45. I understand that

and said pretty clearly that I support him and would vote for him if I could. I'll go further and say that I, like many here, have forgiven him for his activities back then. He very clearly has come to understand how repugnant that organization, and his own views at the time, truly are.

But the fact remains that he was KKK, and wrote that letter. When someone asks about that, it's not a crime or 'lame' to speak the facts. He seems very clearly to understand that it is a blight on his name.

[Just Me]

100. I admire him for taking responsibility for his mistakes,...

,...and spending a lifetime to correct them.

I not only forgive him,...I embrace and support him for being courageous and strong enough to not only change but also advocate for the tolerance and growth and potential held by all human beings.

<on edit - I might add that,...I despise anyone who seeks to demean/diminish/destroy a person who has proven him/herself an advocate for human potential.>

[FleshCartoon]

79. Thanks for the article.

And the above statement as well. I was slammed pretty hard last night for bringing up my dismay when finding out Sen. Byrd, a man I admired so much, had been part of that group.

I love what Byrd has done in his political career, but I was very shocked when I found out about his past--and I'm still grappling with that.

Also, a special thanks to Kanary for understanding and defending me.

[cjbuchanan]

6. He was in the KKK during part of the 40's

He joined in '42 and says he left in '43. Some people claim that he was still involved into 1946 or later.

He was never high up in the organization and has apologized for it. He says he joined because, at the time, you could not get anywhere in the South or Virgina if you were not in the Klan.

I don't approve of this part of his history. However, he does have a good record during the last 30-40 years of support issues important to minorities.

It is a little complicated. It came up again when he used the term "white-ni**er" twice during an interview in 2001.

[formernaderite]

14. It sounds like a bit of a whitewash....I recall reading he was a Grand....

...Wizard. Look it was a long time ago...not that I actually believe he's changed all that much....but Byrd and Hollings made their careers by sticking with the democratic party instead of becoming repulicans. So they're our token racists.

[cjbuchanan]

21. There is a lot of different information out there

Some people say he was only in for a few months and others say he was there for years. There is very little actual proof that he was there for very long, just "hush-hush" talk.

Who knows what the full story is.

[KoKo]

26. He is correct in his statement. I grew up in the South. West Virginia

was poverty with outhouses and very little electricity. It was a different time. You had to have relatives who grew up in that time, to understand.

That Robert Byrd was a product of his culture and changed says more about his dignity and integrity than Chimp or Reagan can say about theirs.

[FleshCartoon]

81. I absolutely agree with that--no question. (n/t)

[theboss]

84. I did have relatives grow up then

They didn't join the Klan.

(And again, I've actually voted for Byrd. But I can't excuse his past so easily).

[KoKo]

93. Byrd maybe was more "questioning" than your relatives. Maybe a rebel?

The most fun folks to me are the "rebels" in their youth...who grew from their experiences by "testing authority." You say how was Byrd "testing authority" by joining the KKK? Because what the hell else was there to do in WVA without toilets, electricity and going to "Burger King" for him to do way back then?

I'm glad he looked at the "DARK SIDE" and drew back and tried to learn from his experience.

Look...the guy's not a SAINT...but he TRIED to DEFEND us against THE CHIMP and KEEP US THE HELL OUT OF IRAQ!

For that...Bobbie Byrd will always be a hero to many of us here today and many gone on DU...We don't take lightly to our few "HERO's" against Bush being trashed and demeaned because an 80 Something year old man, joined the KKK in his 20's.

Look up Norman Podhoretz and Billy Krystol's backgrounds and you will find COMMUNISTS!

Let's have some perspective here about Byrd is all I'm asking...:shrug:

[theboss]

94. I have perspective.....I've voted for him

But methinks you are just being as selective in why you are praising Byrd as those who focus on his KKK past are in demeaning him.

Yes, he's against Bush and the war in Iraq. That's one moment in a forty-year career.

One thing that bothers me about DU is that it is becoming so W-centric that we are losing all perspective. Byrd is an accomplished senator and a fascinating individual. But he in no way, shape or form should be some sort of liberal icon. He was in Klan in the 40s, against civil rights in the 60s, against environmental regs in the 80s, and doesn't care much for gays or atheists. So, yes, I agree...some perspective is definately in order.

I've always felt that my votes for Byrd have been among the most cynical I've ever cast. A true progressive would have a difficult time making a case for him. But he brings home the pork to the state and he entertains me. But I have no delusions of what he is.

[KoKo]

96. Well...would you go with a "Ronald Reagan for the Left?" Would that make

sense...I understand what you are saying, really...but I can't be a "purist/pragmatist" about Robert Byrd given the dreck I see out there in our Senate and House.

Now if Tom Daschle had given Byrd's speeches on the floor of the Senate which inspired the thousands of e-mails, I and other DU'ers sent, because he was a hero to us...would we have gone back and looked at his ties? Like maybe his wife's ties to United Airlines who got big bailout after 9/11 and his own personal things that those who voted for him know, but don't talk about?

Couldn't we look at ALL our Congress and find horrible things to many of us which we couldn't abide...but for one "brief shining moment" Bobbie Byrd said what some of us Dems who were violently anti-Iraq Invasion wanted to here. And he did it with style and grace and an historical perspective.

Only a few others stood on the Senate floor and gave speeches that were memorable. Byrd's was, imho and other's here (at the time)'s opinion THE BEST!

I will always love that man for standing up. I will defend him because he defended those of us who didn't have a voice.

Yes...I'm biased...:D

[Yupster]

119. I haven't had a perfect life either

But at least I didn't join the F*****G Ku Klux Klan. Hell, Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond didn't even join the Klan.

[Yupster]

118. People would have you believe that the 1940's

was a high point in the life of the Klan.

It was not.

The Klan's hey-day was in the 1920's. Reading my trusty Funk and Wagnall's, it saya the Klan's height was in 1924 when as many as 3,000,000 men belonged to the organization.

However, due to "inept and exploitive Klan leadership" and pulicized immorality and violence, the Klan was blown apart and completely discredited so that by 1929, "it had been reduced to a few thousand members."

In 1944, the Klan formally disbanded because it couldn't pay owed federal taxes. Since then the Klan has broken down into "numerous, independent, competing units, which often did not last long enough to be placed on the list of subversive organizations issued by the US attorney general."

I their attempts to make excuses for the sorry old racist, many will leave readers to believe that everyone was a member of the Klan during the 40's and what Byrd did was nothing out of the ordinary. That is clearly not true. Byrd did not join a powerful, on-the-march Klan. He joined a completely discreditted Klan, and was one of the very few to do that.

I have no hatred for the bigotted old relic. I wish him well, but I don't think he should be anywhere near places where laws are passed, and it's an embarrasment to the party that he holds a position of authority, including recently "President of the Senate."

[Lex]

7. At least Byrd renounced his former views on that.

Unlike Lott or old dead Strom Thurmond or the rest of those racist bastards in the Republican party.

[DoNotRefill]

19. I dunno....

you should hear him in relative private when there are no cameras around. It's not pretty.

[KoKo]

29. Oh Pooh!

You should hear some DU'ers in "private." You wouldn't believe...

[indigobusiness]

33. Pooh...as in Winnie???? Or poo as in

poop?

I'm so confused, but I think I am in agreement.

[Cheswick2.0]

47. yeah right, cuz you hang out with him in private

give up the Byrd bash.

[DoNotRefill]

69. I met him once in a recreational situation....

and spent a few hours in his company with two other people.

The language was "raw", to say the least.

It's the only time I ever met him in person, and the only time I'd want to meet him in person.

[Lex]

86. He told me you are making this meeting up. n/t

.

[DoNotRefill]

105. That's all well and good.

but it happened. We certainly weren't expecting him to show up, and were going to play with our normal 3, but when we were asked if we'd mind a fourth, we agreed, not knowing who it was. It was, btw, a resort town, and we were there for our annual conference. Due to the judicial nature of the conference we were attending, they apparently didn't think we were a security risk. And that's all I've got to say about it. :)

BTW, he's not the only US Senator I've met. I've also met Chuck Robb, George Allen, and John Warner. Would any of them remember me? Prolly not. But I've met them and shaken their hands. I actually had a fairly long 1 on 1 conversation with Robb. He's a true gentleman, and pictures don't do him justice. I think he'd make a pretty good Democratic candidate for President if he wanted the job.

[Qutzupalotl]

10. Some of his opponents continued to support the KKK.

Jesse Helms comes to mind as one whose stance on every issue mirrors theirs, or benefits them in some way, such as blocking efforts on affirmative action. To call Byrd out on his (disavowed) past would have put them in an embarrassing position. I think the majority of KKK members vote Republican today (just a guess)--and the Republicans don't want to alienate their constituency.

[sendero]

11. I believe...

... people can see the light and that people's hearts can change.

I think this is a fine example. Now if the hearts of a few racist Repulicans would change, we could get on with making America greater.

[recidivist]

12. When Byrd was young and foolish, he was young and foolish.

To coin a phrase.

The story is for real. I don't know if Byrd acknowledges it or not, but it is generally accepted that as a young coot from the hills of West-by-God-Virginia, he was a Klansman. Obviously, that was a long time ago and his politics have changed.

With the retirement of Fritz Hollings (the man who put the confederate flag atop the S. Carolina statehouse), Byrd is the last of the racist old guard southern democratic block to be active in politics. Byrd survives because he jettisoned his racist past, as did Hollings and Strom Thurmond, and the voters accepted the change.

Others like Al Gore Sr., William Fulbright, and Richard Russell -- racists all -- were highly creditable Senators on issues other than race but for one reason or another failed to make the transition to the post Jim Crow era. That Byrd, Hollings, and Thurmond survived and Gore, Fulbright, and Russell did not is an interesting study in contrasts. Basically, the flamboyant populists managed the switch while the thoughtful intellectuals did not.

People sometimes try to lump Jesse Helms in with this crew but that is a mistake. Helms was, of course, a conservative democrat when he was young, but he was not in politics until much later. He was elected as a conservative republican AFTER the Civil Rights revolution. His signature issue when he came on the scene was anti-communism -- i.e., he was an unrepentant cold warrior during the Jimmy Carter era. Helms is one of a kind. Make of him what you will, but he is not part of the southern old guard.

[theboss]

75. I agree with 95 percent of what you are saying

But you are giving Jesse Helms way too much credit. No one knew how to race-bait his way to an election victory like Jesse. He understood how symbolism worked in the south better than any modern politician (with the possible exception of Ronald Reagan).

Granted, some of his symbolism was pretty obvious, like his "White Hands" ad.

Jesse was a Cold Warrior on the National Stage, but back home, he knew how to appeal to the worst instincts of the voters.

[Hoping4Change]

13. What the father said to his good son about his prodigal son.

"We had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found." (Luke 15:11-32)

I am not a traditionally religious person but I think this story holds an importnat truth namely when people who were on the wrong path change for the good that change of heart should be celebrated.

[trumad]

15. Amen

[indigobusiness]

16. Many southern GOP legislators have KKK roots or relations.

I'm guessing.

It would make for an interesting survey and expose.

[Blue Wally]

23. Not sure about that

Most of them are younger and after the 1960s, the Klan had ceased to be respectable for mainstream folks.

[indigobusiness]

30. Many Southern "Gentlemen" are Closet Klansmen...

Don't kid yourself.

And the Klan has never been respectable, nor mainstream.

I would bet that a good number of family members have Klan ties, if nothing else.

[Ripley]

34. You know before you go and accuse all Southern families of

having members in the Klan...closet or otherwise. You might look at where people live who openly belong to the Klan and meet and march. Try Indiana and Idaho.

You have a right to hate southerners, but it's sad you have to make shit up to uphold your hatred.

[KoKo]

37. I am a Southerner, as I assume are you...and agree there are "closet"

racists everywhere. And, even some who are called racists who don't deserve the title because of something they said or did in their past.

People are complicated. When we start to view individuals as either "White Hats or Black Hats" we lose the ability to have discussions between us about what makes us all "human." We really become Faux Network when we reduce people to such black and white confines and forget that there's a "grey" area inbetween and that most of us who think about things shift back and forth throughout our lives opening our ears, hearts and minds to other voices and learning as we go.

Why should folks be trashed when they have redeemed themselves through other actions? I don't know... It's sad to me that we can't forgive and look at what the person is today..

[Ripley]

41. I agree. People do change.

I just get tired of the same old southern stereotypes being dragged around here at DU. Do I think there are racists in the south? Yes. Do I know they are in every othere region of America? Yes. It is sick when people who have probably never been to the south, never met a southerner feel free to describe in great detail how southerners behave and especially what they do in "secret."

[indigobusiness]

54. That's true, and whatever views one might have about the Klan...

it is an organization of racists, and has an ugly history and legacy. And if people in Govt are secretly or overtly affiliated or have family that are--this is food for controversy..

[DoNotRefill]

107. A lot of the racists have left the South....

since there are so many minorities here. That's why there are so many crazies in Montana and Idaho....they have a tiny minority population compared to the South, and so the racists moved there.

[indigobusiness]

48. First, I don't hate anyone... we are all human and make grievous mistakes

...but I hate nobody, as much as I don't like their actions or beliefs.

Secondly, I never said "all Southern families" had Klan members of any kind. I said that I would bet that GOP legislators had "a good number" of family members with ties to the Klan.

I made nothing up, and any sadness might reside in your reading things into statements like mine and your twisted judgements about them.

[Ripley]

49. Changing your story.

You did not say GOP legislators...you said Southern Gentlemen. Pretty broad brush.

[indigobusiness]

57. See my previous post that Southern "Gentlemen" referred to...

...that's why it was in quotes.

I changed nothing in my "story".

[Ripley]

61. What does this mean?

I would bet that a good number of family members have Klan ties, if nothing else. It sounds to me like you meant Southern family members. If you just mean the GOP, sorry I misunderstood.

The Klan is not just in the South as I stated above. In fact, when I lived in Ohio they seemed to have rallies all the time. Since I have lived in Alabama I have never, not once in 10 years heard of a Klan rally here.

[indigobusiness]

64. I was elaborating on my original post about GOP legislators...

Your apology is accepted, and speaks well of you, but I was not passing judgement on anyone...just speculating about Klan ties to the GOP in the south. Merely a thought regarding the hypocrisy of trying to smear Byrd about his past, when there are plenty of things in the woodwork of the present.

I'm aware of the Klan and racism across this country. Not trying to pick on the South, but Byrd is in that region, which is home to the KKK, after all.

[theboss]

76. The Klan was always more closely associated with Dems than Republicans

As a party, we are always walking on really shaky ground when we discuss the KKK, especially in the South. Democrats in the South were the Segragationists until deep into the 1960s. And, as Byrd and Hollings attest, we still have remnants of that era on the national stage.

I mean, Al Gore probably has a closer "familial" connection to the Klan than most GOPers. His dad was trying to appeal to someone in 1964. So we shouldn't be bringing up this tar unless we want to get really really dirty ourselves.

[indigobusiness]

90. Yep and Strom Thurmond was once a Democrat...

if you get my drift.

Party ideologies and affiliations have undergone subtle and not so subtle shifts, whereas the ideology of the Klan remains monolithic.

on edit- but your point is well taken...and I wasn't comparing and contrasting the Dem and Rep relationship to the Klan. Merely pointing out possible hypocrisy about the Byrd smearing by the GOP.

[Blue Wally]

97. Yes it was

In addition to its darker side, the Klan was also a very active social club in the early part of this century with clubhouses just like the Optimists or the Masonic Lodges and it was respectable to belong to the Klan (though the militant activites were not talked about).

[DoNotRefill]

106. The Klan WAS respectable and mainstream.....

many, many, many years ago (like in the 1920's). They marched in DC, and over a million of them showed up.

[Cheswick2.0]

53. what respectable folks?

we are talking about the racist republican southern polititions.

[bobbieinok]

17. there was a SCOTUS justice in the 40s/50s who

had been a member of the KKK

I believe he turned out to be one of the most liberal justices of his time on the bench

[pnorman]

124. That would have been Hugo Black.

Here's one of the first links I Googled out: http://www.nisk.k12.ny.us/fdr/ideas/portfolio/vandersee/vandersee.html

The situation isn't all that different with Byrd. I suggest others here who feel very strongly about Sen. Byrd should read that and other websites.

pnorman

[I thought so.]

18. Its just like Kerry,

Byrd is KKK. Kerry is Skull and Bones. Most of the Founding Fathers were Masons. These scary secret societies are everywhere.

[Caution]

22. comparing the KKK to skull & bones is a little much

skull & bones is a rich kid fraternity. the KKK is a hate group. BIG difference.

[Hoping4Change]

27. Skull & Bones has some redeeming features.

According to the 6o Minutes story about it last Sunday, Skull & Bones instills in its members the value of service and that life is too short to trifle away.

[Yupster]

120. Agree, I'd rather be

stripped naked and spanked by a sorority sister, than lynched.

[KoKo]

80. Agree....we must overlook Kerry's campaign operatives statements, because

our Democratic "CAUSE" to "Defeat Bush" is greater than the sum of our parts. We on the so-called "fringe left" must forgive, overlook and hide under the rug every "mis-step" of the Kerry Campaign Managers, and therefore we must accept that Senator Byrd is a RACIST of HIGH ORDER...because this mid-80 something politician in his 20's joined the KuKluxKlan because in West Virginia when you had to squat in an outhouse, and didn't have electricity...you couldn't necessarily been smoking stash and shooting to vent during your teen years...you had to be drinkin' "White Lightnin" under a bridge, stealing "smokes" and trying to figure out where you fit in in West Virginia. West Virginia when Bobby Byrd grew up didn't have a place for "teens to go and hang out!"

Give the guy a break at 83 and figure how long you could have "walked in his shoes." :shrug:

[Kanary]

20. I must mention...

there was a thread on DU about this just two days ago, and someone who had also just learned of this fact was asking about it. She met with such a barrage of flames that I haven't seen her back on DU since. I wish that she had received the sae replies of information that is now available here.

I really do wish people would stop to consider how much they're not only hurting other DUers with the flames, but the damage that is being done to the Party itself by running people off in this manner. All the calls to "Get Out The Vote" won't overcome running people off with obnoxiousness.

Kanary

[BiggJawn]

42. And another posting today...

With somebody jumping in to bust my chops for saying "hey, we've heard it all before".

OK, so I'll say it again: We've heard it all and discussed it all before. Some can't "forgive" Byrd for making a mistake that he long ago denounced, and some of us are, as one poster put it, "sick of this shit".

He's got a book coming out, so the vermin is crawling out of the woodwork to do Karl's bidding...

[Kanary]

70. ???? Don't know if this was directed at me????

If it was, I wasn't here to "bust your chops"... I'm not into that.

I was posting about someone else who got their "chops" "busted"

*Precisely* because there's a book coming out, it's important to learn the background, and know the history, so that when a fencesitter mentions some of this stuff from the RW, we KNOW what we're talking about and can do some edumakating. That's how we're going to turn this mess around...... knowing the facts, and knowing how to present it to folks with questions.

Trashing other DUers because they aren't yet familiar with the background, and want to know, is counterproductive, and just plain *mean*.

Kanary

[BiggJawn]

113. It wasn't.

Rest easy, it wasn't you....:7

[Kanary]

116. OK, couldn't figure out how my post set you off..

Since we seemed to be saying much the same thing.

At DU, one is never sure. :)

:hi:

Kanary

[Robbien]

25. I wonder why someone would start a smear thread on Byrd

This is very questionable.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tomee450]

72. I agree

Very suspicious

[Cheswick2.0]

31. It will all be clear at the great unmasking on election day

:eyes:

[KoKo]

67. I know Cheswick....I have my list of "suspects." I hope I'm wrong, though

This great unmasking...I wonder if it will really occur. If Kerry wins they aren't going to be so keen to "out themselves" figuring they will live to see another day under their "cloak of darknes."

If the Chimp wins then they will rush out dancing on us...thumping and jumping and cheering and driving in their spears. They will reveal how they herded us towards Armaggedon...and they will feast with the "Beast" in great voices of song...The wine will flow and they will revel into the dark night about how they "foiled Democratic Underground." How they lurked and pandered and insinuated themselves amongst us...while they snikered and laughed with their friends.

It should be interesting...to say the least! :D

[Hubert Flottz]

82. If Bush wins they'll(trolls)will be at the KKKKeg parties at their ......

local KKKlan chapters of Freak Republick!(FreeKKKorps)

[KoKo]

99. ROFL! Too True! n/t

[Township75]

35. He was in the KKK, and no excuses or voting record will change it

He also used the word "white n*ggers" in a TV interview shortly after the 2k election. He clearly doesn't get it, or doesn't want to get it.

Racism is too big and too important an issue to excuse away because someone is in the democratic pary. David Duke got into and out of the KKK too. Byrd is one Dem that I won't miss when he goes.

Please add a whining and moaning and excusing comment below about his voting record and that he is a good democrat on the line below:

_____________________________________________________________________

[stavka]

38. ...so any German over the age of 70

...should be forever dismissed as a Nazi?

I'll take a bad Dem who votes party line over a Republican Robot who is 100% Klan Free.

This whole thread does smell of divisive baiting, I know I'm a divisive baiter myself.

[Township75]

44. I'll take a different democrat...

I am sure there are plenty of fine democrats in WV that could have replaced him, and had his exact same voting record if not better.

You say you will take a bad dem over a repub robot. That isn't necessarily a bad choice.

I will take a good dem over a bad dem, and good dems don't associate with the KKK. I think that is a better choice. WV is almost always a solid dem state. Another solid dem could have that seat quite easily.

And when one does, I think more dems are likely to be thankful for Byrds service, but happy a former KKK member is out of the party.

[stavka]

60. Certainly not going to argue with that....

[theboss]

77. It's not Byrd's voting record that has kept him in office

People on the National Stage look at his votes or his statesmanship (which is damned impressive).

People back home look at the pork he brings in. We've joked that when he passes, his corpse could bring one interstate a year.

[KoKo]

39. STONE HIM....KILL HIM...Drive him out of the Party! He's just Zell in

Sheeps clothes! :D (sarcasm alert, here)

[WilliamPitt]

46. Where in this thread did anyone even come close to saying that?

[Cheswick2.0]

51. shun him scorn him put a big R on his clothing

RACIST! He should never ever be forgiven.

[Cheswick2.0]

50. Oh I am sorry Jesus, I mistook you for a human

Clearly I mistook you for a mere mortal and did not recognize you without your robes and crown of thorns.

[Ripley]

52. Hah.

Isn't it amazing how someone like Nelson Mandela forgives his captors, yet a supposed Liberal wants to hate one of the most Liberal Congress people we have for something he did 60 years ago?

I guess Byrd should just quit and maybe a Repuke can take his place. As long as it's a repuke with no membership in the Klan that is!

[Cheswick2.0]

55. Yup, but I think there is another motive at play here

Byrd is way to outspoken in the senate about the war and the patriot act etc... he makes others look bad by comparison. We are all supposed to approve of the war, or at least not talk about it because it highlights the fact that our fearless nominee voted for it.
The DLC is in charge now and we must all fall in line while they work their brilliant stategy.

[Township75]

59. Are you referring to me?

Where is the "hate" in my post...copy and paste it.

I did say I won't miss him, and that is true, I won't miss Byrd...doesn't mean I hate him, and I don't hate him.

Ohhh, and if Byrd had quit, another Dem would have likely won his seat.

[Township75]

56. Was that your response...

to anyone criticizing Strom Thurmond, or Trent Lott?

Be careful if it were...someone could easily confuse your response with someone who can't develop a good arguement with the post, so s/he has to attack a post that never existed?

[Ripley]

58. Yeah, Strom and Trent vote so Progressively!

Those two never changed. Get it?

[Township75]

62. No, I don't.

and I likely never will get how it is OK for some people to join a group that is centered on racism, hangings, and burning crosses and homes, yet it is overlooked if they have a "progressive" voting record.

Please explain it to me.

Also, Thurmond later in life renounced segregation, wanted the confederate flag brought down from the capital, and wanted the confederate flag removed from the SC state flag. Is that enough to excuse him?

[Ripley]

63. What, are you accusing Byrd of lynching people now?

I didn't say "overlook" his past membership to that group. But you don't seem to get that he has spent decades more time in a position of lawmaking to change America for the better than he spent being part of a group of assholes.

Why do you give his membership more weight than the good he has done?

Disrupt much?

[theboss]

78. Knowing Byrd pretty damn well, you are really overselling his record

He has hardly been a liberal in his career. In the last three or four years, his voting record has gone way way left. But for 4/5 of his career he was the living embodiment of a pro-business Southern Democrat.

[KoKo]

87. Given his constiuency in WVA....I would say like Rockefeller...he needs

to be pretty Pro Business to represent that state. Still doesn't take away from the fact that he saw the "Chimp had NO CLOTHES" and that he tried to do everything in his power to KEEP US OUT OF IRAQ!

I was glad for his voice and his lessons in history. I will give a tribute to him for speaking up when no one else would (cowering in their Dem bunkers after Anthrax Attacks) and it's the same reason I praise Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich...for waging the "good fight." :shrug:

[Blue Wally]

102. What Byrd is best known for.....

Was that of an indiviudual who, when his party was in power, closely studied the government organizational charts to craft legislation to move as much as possible of the Federal government from DC to WVa. He has done this to a lot of agencies.

[Tomee450]

71. Well I am black

and not at all concerned that Byrd was a Klan member some forty years ago. I've been struck by the fact that most of the people I've seen condemning Byrd have not been African American. Byrd has changed, has said he is sorry for that part of his history, and that's enough for me. Many blacks forgave George Wallace who did a lot of awful things. And by the way, Byrd's "white ni--ers" comment did not upset me either. I knew what he was trying to say.

[KoKo]

85. Thanks much for your comments.

Really...means alot to those of us who look on "Old Byrd" as a hero because he stood up against the Chimp-in-Thief."

What we all do when we are young and reckless is different from what we do later on..if we think, are bright, and flexible.

Now...who would call Tom DeLay...flexible and willing to learn from him mistakes? Or Strom Thurman who refused to acknowledge after years of racial slurs and getting all of the Gingrich Repugs defending him, that he fathered a child out of "wedlock." The point is...whether she was black, brown, cocoa or white...Thurmand never apologized for what the Right Wing Repugs would have thrown him out of the Senate for.

But..Clinton had a consensual "Oral Event" with a 20 something year old and was "IMPEACHED!"

Where is the religious or moral authority talking about the "nuances" of this situation...while we could dwell on Thurmond or Byrd...who is worse..

It's disgusting to me...Moral Relativism? Exusing some while on forgives others????

One could write many books on this. But, in the end, none of us want to face our own "hypocracy." Those who do..get trashed like Byrd.

:-(

[Tomee450]

110. It's amazing

that people would continue to attack a person for something they did many years ago for which they have apologized repeatedly. I think Byrd is quite courageous, quite the statesman. I always enjoy listening to his speeches on the Senate floor.

[On the Road]

36. If Byrd Were Still a Racist,

do you think he'd still be a Democrat?

Given how many of his colleagues have changed parties, that's my response.

[TexasSissy]

65. He used to be a bigot. He has since apologized

and said he changed his ways. It was a long time ago. I don't know if he was a member of KKK.

But I'm still suspicious of anyone who would join such an organization.

[Kipepeo]

68. former klansmen

can sometimes become effective anti-racism activists. Not speaking about Byrd specifically here, just wanted to say some people can change (and dramatically) over time.

Check out C.P. Ellis. He was a former Klansman in NC who started working with Ann Atwater, a civil rights activist, when he realized they were on the same side and he was being manipulated by wealthy white politicians. He had the whole "divide and conquer" realization. He's now an anti-racism speaker...or was when I was in college.

There's a book about Ellis and Atwater called "Best of Enemies" that is worth checking out.

[theHandpuppet]

66. Byrd's bio...

Byrd's bio from his website:

http://www.senate.gov/~byrd/byrd_bio/byrd_story/byrd_story.html

I believe his son-in-law, Mohammad Fatemi, is the same gentleman who is a prominent Iranian-American scientist (though I'm not certain). But perhaps this would indicate that more than time has led to his more enlightened views on many fronts.

[KoKo]

73. yeah...right..right..right...like we don't all have family members who

wouldn't "pass muster" in the world of Fascism we live in, today.

Maybe Byrd's wife is related to Osama...give me a break...

[FleshCartoon]

83. I don't think Handpuppet meant...

...to deride Byrd's in-law for being Iranian. I don't quite understand how you got that from the post.

You yourself seem to be bordering on racism against "brown people" in your response to the post.

[theHandpuppet]

89. Thank you....

You understood my post was in no way meant to deride Mr Fatemi, who is (if he is who I believe him to be) an accomplished scientist and of whom his father-in-law is obviously very proud.

[theHandpuppet]

88. I think you misinterpreted my post....

I was speculating that perhaps Byrd's own son-in-law had influenced the evolution of his views in a positive way. I don't know why you took my post in such a negative manner.

[KoKo]

91. I apologize if I read you wrong, "Handpuppet." I felt you were trying to

link Byrd with some great "brain fart" where he suddenly (after years of being a racist KuKluxKlanner)...woke up because he suddenly had a ME'sterner in his immediate family.

I reread your post..and I probably did over-react. My Bad..:-(

[theHandpuppet]

112. No prob...

Onward and upward, as they say. The speed bumps just come with being part of this DU family. :)

Be well...

[Kanary]

98. KoKo, I've followed many of your posts for a long time,

responded to many of them, and have enjoyed much of what you've had to say.

I've been really puzzled to see you being so upset today that you're reading into people's statements things that just aren't there. You were questioned on that at the beginning, and rode right over it. From what I've known of you in the past, this is a departure, and I'm really wondering why this has you so upset.

I want to stress something that I said last night, in the hopes that this can lead to some further understanding: You seem to be very familiar with this issue of Byrd, but I would like for you to remember that *some* of us haven't known anything about this at all. I think you can understand that for those of us who have admired him, and been so uplifted by his speeches, to suddenly discover this part of his background is very disconcerting. It takes time to figure out how to put it all in perspective. We all have so much disappointment in our politicians, and this one comes as a real body-blow.

I know that for me, I was in shock when I first heard this. It took me quite a while to come to terms with it... it just didn't square at all with the Byrd that *I* knew. It takes time to work through all that, and it requires the help of fellow dems to come to that place of acceptance. Shouts of "Well, then run him out on a rail" don't really help in that process.

Please understand what some of us are struggling with to integrate this revelation into our brains. And, if you care to share what it is that upsets you so about this issue, I suspect that we will be willing to listen and support you as we can.

We're all in this together.

Kanary

[KoKo]

103. Kanary...I've been here for a long time...so assume much that maybe leaves

out those who haven't been watching politics. I take your point..but also wonder why folks don't do a "Google" on Byrd before they start posting about KKK. One would have to know something about Byrd from his past to post KKK!!..run from Byrd..he's just another Strom.

My interaction for so long here on DU, may make me "overly sensitive" to those from the "dark side" who come here to trash Byrd.

However, I did think I took pains to explain in my posts where I was coming from. :shrug: I'm Southern and have relatives of Byrd's generation (my family has long lived genes) and so I tried to give perspective wherever I could on this thread.

I just do the best I can...sorry if you felt I was OTT. But, I stand by my posts. I mean every word I say.

[Kanary]

109. KoKo, many of us come to DU because we *trust* info here

Yes, we could all stay by ourselves and google everything alone, and not ask questions. But, y'know, I really don't thinkthat's productive. I know that *I* benefit from the background and knowledge of others, and learn one heck of a lot more than I would if I had to google everything by myself. Most of us simply don't have time to google *everything*, especially if we are also trying to budget time to work on political campaigns, make congresscritter calls, and all that kind of good stuff.

I fully understand what you're saying about the frustration of those who don't know much about an issue, but barge in with guns loaded, full of their uninformed opinions. I've seen waaay too many of those types here at DU -- encountered several today on the issue of Universal health care. They are so sure they know everything about it, when they haven't read any of the *real* info, and just keep spouting RW talking points. I've seen that enough to know just how aggravating it can be, and how it can subvert a conversation. I've been plenty aggravated myself at some of these clowns. They just like to rile people.

However, I hope you can understand, also, the other side of it. Sometimes we just need to be able to ask questions. Isn't that reasonable? I ask questions of the candidate supporters that I'm associated with, and they ask questions of me, and none of us assume that we're out to "get" the other. Yes, it's a smaller group, and not as infiltrated, but still.... something is lost when there is an immediate suspicion that a person asking questions, or simply stating that they are disappointed in learning something about a politician, is "from the dark side". We DEMs have such a talent for pushing away those who are more than one-sided, and see things from various angles.

A couple of weeks ago, I was accosted on the street by somebody with a petition for changing Colorado's method of voting. I wasn't at all familiar with it, asked for more information, and was given a web site. I came home, couldn't find the website at all, and a gogle yielded nothing. I asked the question here on DU and was met with such derision and put downs that I gave up in disgust, and have come to the conclusion that I simply cannot risk that sort of mental abuse any more. Do you see what that does? It stunts one more person's enthusiasm for learning and contributing. We can only ask questions if we are willing to risk a complete "dressing down"? I have really resented *EVERY* time I've been met with some suggestion that I'm from the "dark side".

As I said, I do understand your frustration. I felt it again today, on another thread, and I know I had to just get away from it. But, I'm dismayed that you say you mean every word you've said. I understand saying things in the heat of battel, but sometimes those words are quite unproductive.

I do hope that at some point, in the future, you will be able to see from my side what it does when I feel like I can't ask questions, I can't share disappointment in a candidate or issue, or otherwise be at all vulnerable. It diminishes the stength of the party when we all have to hide ourselves, and put on armor.

Kanary

[Junkdrawer]

95. What's Up?? This: "Byrd lambastes Bush in book"...

By Paul J. Nyden
Staff Writer

Sen. Robert C. Byrd, D-W.Va., will publish a new book next month titled “Losing America: Confronting a Reckless and Arrogant Presidency.”

W.W. Norton & Co. plans to release on July 26 the book in which Byrd argues President George W. Bush “is in a class by himself — ineptitude supreme.”

Kirkus Reviews calls the new volume “an outstanding broadside from a true patriot.”

A promotion from W.W. Norton states, “Swept along, we have entered a war without proper consideration and rushed dangerous legislation through Congress. Now is the time to regain the Constitution, to return to the values and processes that made America great. Byrd does not shrink from speaking the truth to an ever more aggressive and imperial White House.”

More..

http://www.wvgazette.com/section/News/Other+News/2004061419

[Yacko]

101. Yup, its true....but.....

Yes, he was a Klansman a long time ago. But its sad that it is dredged up every time the Republicans need to try to prove a point about why their people aren't as bad as labelled. "Well, look at Byrd, he's was a Klansman!" What they don't say after that is the fact that Byrd has spent decades in Congress doing everything he can for our great country. As a constituent in his district, I would follow Byrd (my hero) through hell and back.

Incidentally, has anyone seen this? http://www.evernight.com/boards/canon/viewtopic.php?t=13801&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 Its a thread on another site that I used to go to but left when it became clear that only right wing opinions were welcome. Apparently a few of their posters take issue with DU.

[KoKo]

104. For "Newbies" who read down this far, a link to Senator Byrd's Website

which includes all his speeches..including his last one praising Ronald Reagan in gentle tones.

Go back to lead up to Iraq Invasion for the REAL GOOD STUFF but even this year he's had much to say about the Chimp and his ABUSE of the Constitution. (Iraq Invasion is September through March of 2002, for his speeches on the Senate floor to empty rooms, just as those of us who protested marched to Media who didn't cover us)

http://www.senate.gov/~byrd/

[Junkdrawer]

108. KoKo, Byrd's putting out a new book and the WH is in Richard Clarke mode..

If you have a strong stomach, you'll see from his website that el Drugbo was pounding on this today.

[KoKo]

111. Thanks, the title is interesting: "Losing America: Confronting a Reckless

and Arrogant Presidency."

Sounds good...the link sent me to Limbaugh instead of "sludge" but I'll forgive ya! ;-)'s

Byrd lambastes Bush in book

By Paul J. Nyden
Staff Writer
Sen. Robert C. Byrd, D-W.Va., will publish a new book next month titled “Losing America: Confronting a Reckless and Arrogant Presidency.”

W.W. Norton & Co. plans to release on July 26 the book in which Byrd argues President George W. Bush “is in a class by himself — ineptitude supreme.”

Snip....

A promotion from W.W. Norton states, “Swept along, we have entered a war without proper consideration and rushed dangerous legislation through Congress. Now is the time to regain the Constitution, to return to the values and processes that made America great. Byrd does not shrink from speaking the truth to an ever more aggressive and imperial White House.”

[Junkdrawer]

123. LOL, I heard someone refer to the walking anal cyst as "el Drugbo"...

(a takeoff of his own self-assigned nickname "el Rushbo") and I thought it fit better.

[FleshCartoon]

114. Surely you don't think...

...that "Newbies" to DU aren't familiar with Senator Byrd and his speeches merely because they haven't been on DU long.

And you're not taking Kanary's point into consideration, either--which is this: for someone to have admired Senator Byrd for a long time, being familiar with everything about his public service, except his past in the KKK, to suddenly discover this past affiliation can be temporarily devastating the person who had been an admirer of Byrd's.

On another thread yesterday, someone posted that Republicans take their leaders warts and all, but Democrats tend to idolize their leaders. I think that's part of the problem for some of us who found this out about the good Senator--that we'd idolized him too much, and weren't allowing for his humanity.

Now we have to come to terms with him on a new level. Why is that so difficult to understand and why does admitting that get one the label of freepin' troll on DU?

[UTUSN]

115. Headline SELECTED for DU Dissention

Am starting a "headline-SELECTED-for-DU-dissention" tickler file.

4. What's up with Robert Byrd & the KKK? - 6-15-04
3. Kerry: "we don't really have an opposition party in this country... - 6-15-04
2. Kerry on C-SPAN - middle class? - 6-15-04
1. What's Disturbing about Theresa Heinz Kerry - 6-15-04

[tinanator]

Youre thinking of Trent Lott and Bob Barr, probably Reagan and his ilk

you know I never realized what a white mans party the Reaganauts were.

[mellowinman]

117. I find all these "innocent question" threads disturbing too...

But I don't like the ease with which so many forgive Byrd's KKK ties. I think we owe it to ourselves to always question these things.

Byrd makes me uncomfortable. He's certainly not my favorite Democrat.

I'm all for unity in the party right now, but I sincerely think Byrd is a creep.

There was his recent "White N----" comment, and there is his stance on homosexuals to consider. Byrd may be a Democrat, but he's no liberal, and I don't claim him.

I would never vote for the man, and I don't understand hero worship of him.

He's no Paul Wellstone, that's for sure.

[nomatrix]

121. Do any of the posters here watch C-Span2?

With school out, I would suggest it. If you have children or are young, it would benefit you to understand what the role of congress is. He is the only senator who continually sites the constitutional requirements that an elected official has a responsibility to, which is the constituents who placed him in that position. (I challenge anyone to name another) Watch and listen, you'll get a piece of history.

His voting record by interest group
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0950103

NAACP seems to like his stance.

I don't know whether you care to know his bio, but no one handed him anything (other that JFK giving him his degree diploma)

He is devoted to his wife, the constitution, his country, his God.

He admitted his mistake and has rectified it by his voting record.

What you should know about Byrd:
He called the war a BLANK CHECK, he was right.
He has stood alone, when you would think the whole party should stand for something.
He questioned Ashcroft appointment, among others.
The lists goes on, but if you want to dwell on something that happened 60 years ago, you can waste your time. There are plenty of senators who didn't belong to the KKK. But they also never stand up for anything.

Did you know Lincoln was a republican? He got less than 50% of the vote, and that was just from the north, the confederate states didn't vote for his presidency, according to Cuomo's new book on Lincoln.
I mention him, because he freed the slaves, and he wasn't very well liked in his time. Look at the presidents who owned slaves, but are still accepted. Such a fine line we cross.

[opihimoimoi]

122. Byrd has matured into a wonderful Senator. Listen to his messages

his words, his way of thinking. Its full of WISDOM winnowed from the chaff over the years.

The Pubs have this thing about people like Byrd, kill them with slimy shit, bring out his BAD PAST, never mind his current message and its apparent value. Because he has a "Bad Past" we should not listen to him. This is Pub Evil at its worst/

[Moderator]

125. Locking.....

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