Forget the presidential election! We are screwed, anyway!

[Th1onein]

Anyone with half a mind can see what this whole war is all about. Fight it if you want to, but it is about oil, as we all know. And everything, everything, is about Peak Oil.

You need to turn your lights off, people. You need to learn to do without energy, my friends. Grow gardens. Stock up on canned goods. Move nearer to the water. Find alternate energy sources. THESE are the ones who wil survive.

It doesn't matter if Kerry wins over Bush, or the Dems win over the Repubs. We are fucked. Enjoy the party, pretending that it matters.

Kerry, Bush......makes no difference.

Get busy. Get prepared. Don't let anyone blow smoke in your ear (as Molly Ivins puts it, so aptly); it's not about politics anymore.

It's about survival.

[Catherine Vincent]

1. You can only save so many canned goods.

Living without air conditioning in Houston will be hell. My air went out a couple of days ago and I finally had it repaired. Luckily it was a little cooler downstairs (which is where I slept).

[Djinn]

6. it can't be that bad

where I live it's regularly over 40c in summer (which is over 100f.. I think, Jebus when will you lot get with the metric system!)

I've never lived in a house with an air conditioner and presumably people didn't drop dead in Houston before their invention.

[PinkTiger]

11. Several problems here.

First, many houses today are ill-equipped to deal with not having air conditioning. The very thing that makes forced air heat and coolling possible -- a lack of air exchange between the air inside and the air outside -- prohibits ventilation.
In the old days, people had sleeping porches in the South, where they spent the hot summer nights; they had transomed doors and windows that could be opened easily to let in the outside air. They also had attic fans, often -- my folks had one in their house before air conditioning was installed.
We survived in our cars without air conditioning for more or less the same reason - great ventilation. Woe unto us now, though, should our air conditioning go out. Air-conditioned cars don't have ventilation to the outside that makes a fan helpful in the heat.
One problem I had in the summer, growing up, was severe allergic reactions to everything the attic fan blew in. Today I survive mostly because the air I breathe inside is filtered. I have severe allergies to dust, pollen, etc.
Also, the humidity was hell on my lungs. We live in Missouri on the Arkansas border, and it stays humid all year. Not as bad as in Shreveport, La., or in northwest Alabama where my Mom grew up, but it is lethal.
So in order for us to live without air conditioning, and without forced air heat, we would have to redesign our living spaces.And come up to alternatives to refrigerators, especially if we are to live without electricity, and to light bulbs.
And I'd miss my laptop.
LOL

[Art_from_Ark]

64. Whareabouts are you, Pink Tiger?

I'm asking as one who is from just the other side of the Mo-Ark border, and close to the OK border to boot. The humidity in that area can be terrible-- I'd guess that it's probably because of all the lakes.

[maggrwaggr]

14. some texans wanted to outlaw air conditioning

to keep out the non-texans.

obviously they lost that one.

[T Town Jake]

52. No...

...but their lifespans where considerably shorter before the arrival on the scene of regular A/C service. It is a fact that the only thing harder on the human body than chronic disease is long term exposure to unrelieved heat - period. It's not just the heat, per se, but the amount of moisture a human body has to remove from its' lungs and skin to carry off heat and keep the internal organs functioning properly. Hence the largely true cliche: it's not the heat, but the humidity. Modern A/C systems are really just "heat exchangers" - nothing is ever really "cooled" (the laws of physics make that impossible), but the "heat" in, say, a living room is "exchanged" or "moved" outdoors, and you end up with a room with a lower ambient temperature inside. But part of the marvel and "cool" feeling that springs from modern "air conditioning" is the fact that it largely makes one feel "cooler" by dropping the relative humidity inside a house to the point that the human body can "cool" itself through the natural process of "heat exchange" with the atmosphere known as "sweating." The best Freon on the market today--since the banning of R12 in 1996--can only "exchange" heat with the outside temperature to about a 12-degree gradient. Which means: if it's 90 degrees outside, the best your A/C will be able to do is lower it to about 78 inside. That's assuming, of course, that you keep all your windows open while the A/C is blazing away: insulation and other factors lower the absolute temperature further for all intents and purposes to something well below that when an A/C unit is fully engaged in a modern dwelling.
But all of this technical recitation & education is, as the saying goes, Academic. The bottom line is this: Americans, Democrat or Repug, are never going to give up their air conditioning. Period. I'm voting for Kerry this November. How about you?

[Djinn]

101. I'll be voting for

my local Green's candidate - but before I get blasted as a "Bush enabler" I'll point out that I'm an Australian citizen so it's a bit irrelevant as to whether I like Kerry or not!

[sendero]

58. In the "old" days...

... houses were built differently. They had high-pitched roofs (a larger attic). Virtually all of them used wood shingles, which breathe when they are not wet.

Windows were designed to provide air circulation. Covered porches provided a place to stay out of the sun.

Trust me, the average suburban house in Texas today becomes an over without AC. You couldn't stay in it in the daytime if you wanted to.

[Catherine Vincent]

89. oh yes it can be that bad with the humidity level in Houston

In the summer the news reports constantly tells everyone to check on the elderly or anyone with no air conditioning. The young and the old, if dehydrated, can die of heat exhaustion. With peak oil coming, I suppose it helps that we are close to Galveston, TX and all their water.

[Tight_rope]

38. I live in Houston. Air went out last week...It was "HELL" for an hour!

I was barbecuing for an friend who was in town from DC. It was Friday about 6pm when the air went out. I didn't notice right away, because I kept going in and on to check the grill. When I came in I would sit right next to the $35 remote control fan I bought from Walmart. But by 8pm...I knew something was wrong because the thermostat was on 60 degrees and I felt no cold air. I called maintenance right away, but wasn't to hopeful because it was a Friday night. Surprisingly they showed up in 30 minutes later. I had air in 30 minutes. I was truly greatly. A June night in Houston without air is "HELL".

[Zinfandel]

48. Or canned people.

[Th1onein]

76. Yes, but you can do other things.

You can start a garden. Move out of the city. Begin to dehydrate meats. Buy a "cone" (they are listed on the internet for $50-$70 each and they have NO moving parts) to make your own fresh water. Get a bicycle.

As for air conditioning, I live right outside of Houston. I'm looking into the Stirling engine. I know NOTHING about mechanics, but the strange thing about this engine is that one side uses hot air, and the other side puts out cold. Sound like something perfect for Houston weather? You bet it does. It's an EXTERNAL combustion engine.

We've got MAYBE six years to get ready, and I plan on my only living child making it through the famines that are coming.

This is NOT a joke. It's NOT like the Y2K scare. It's real. It's a scientific fact, and unless you're a millionaire, you better do some real planning NOW, if you want to be one of the 500 million (this is out of the ENTIRE planet's population) who survive.

[mhr]

2. Peak Oil - Time To Grab Your Ankles?

Websites of interest include:

http://globalpublicmedia.com/
http://www.greatchange.org/
http://www.asponews.org
http://www.hubbertpeak.com/
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Home.html
http://www.oilcrash.com/running.htm
http://www.wolfatthedoor.org.uk/
http://www.durangobill.com/Rollover.html
http://www.gulland.ca/depletion/depletion.htm
http://www.dieoff.org/
http://www.oilanalytics.org/
http://www.oilcrisis.com/
http://www.after-oil.co.uk/
http://hubbert.mines.edu
http://www.museletter.com/archive/cia-oil.html

Books:

Out of Gas: The End of the Age of Oil
by David Goodstein

The Party's Over: Oil, War and the Fate of Industrial Societies
by Richard Heinberg

Hubbert's Peak : The Impending World Oil Shortage
by Kenneth S. Deffeyes

The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight : Waking Up to Personal and Global Transformation
by Thom Hartmann

The Oil Factor: How Oil Controls the Economy and Your Financial Future
by Stephen Leeb, Donna Leeb

News Groups:

Energy Resources
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/energyresources/

Alas Babylon
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AlasBabylon/

Running on Empty
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RunningOnEmpty2/

[Norquist Nemesis]

3. Yes...it is.

And as soon as Iraq and the rest of the ME decides to join together realizing that they have the resources to control it they will be saying "fuck you Bush." We're in for a very bumpy ride, my friends.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Th1onein]

5. I am NOT a fucking Freep, okay? I am INFORMED.....

Or at least I would like to think so.

I love DU. I love my country. But I see the writing on the wall, too.

Energy is what this war is all about. Energy is what everything is going to be about, soon.

Pay attention. Read. Watch Scott Ritter. Look at the videos about Peak Oil. Inform yourself. Voting for John Kerry (and, make no mistake about it, I will be voting for him, and encouraging everyone I know to vote for him, and keeping his sign on my lawn, etc., etc....I am a fighter, if nothing else) is not going to do much good. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it, though. Do it.

But do MORE. Educate yourself. It's pretty clear what is going on, isn't it?

It is those who are prepared who will make it through. I would much rather see my DU brethren alive and well, quite frankly, than a bunch of freepers.

Sorry, but it's true.

[TrustingDog]

9. Energy is what this war is all about....

it's just a part of and a false flag poisoning the well...
There's something more sinister afoot. To me it looks like a deliberate tearing down of America. But by whom...

It never was perfect (oiy, the lists of their crimes for decades), but who is in this world of greed and avarice...

we are being setup for a massive cull...

[K-W]

12. Its really quite simple.

You just need to stop trying to find the people behind it and just open your eyes and see that no one or no thing is doing it for a reason, History defies motives and goals.

People's actions are dictated by thier circumstances.

[Th1onein]

15. You said it, right there. Very intelligent reply.

History is defined by a person's circumstances. A very broad statement that could mean anything, EXCEPT in terms of a scarcity of a much needed, and depended upon, natural resource, which is what we have in the current circumstances.

I don't know about you guys, but I am buying a few extra canned goods, when I go shopping this week. And I am storing them away. I am also looking into a meat dehydrator, so that I can store meat. And an alternate source of energy......Stirling generators, to begin with, and batteries, second.

You guys better get ready......Seriously.

[TrustingDog]

24. what would be easy...

for the predators if energy really is The Issue?

cull the useless eater/users. That's us, folks! cheers. :)

It's all a diabolical combination of many axes of evildoers at our throats.

[G_j]

29. of course

there is always WATER, which will eclipse oil as as the biggest concern in the near future.

[TrustingDog]

35. and some are making sure...

we'll have to Pay for bottled water. While the corps have been recklessly pissing-in-for-$ for all this time.

They have us pleebs by the short curly ones, at Every concievable angle.

[el_gato]

67. I disgree with you K-W

History does not defy motives and goals. Take a look at the history of colonialism and the creation of the third world. There were viable healthy societies all over the world that were wiped out due to the greedy motives of the colonizers, especially france, portugal, spain, and later brittain. It is no accident why the world is the way it is today.

The intentional impoverisation of those in the world who do not have the physical forces available to overcome the onslaught has played a massive role in shaping our world. These same locations are thought of, in the minds of the elite, as resource containers.

[saracat]

25. We MUST

devlope alternatives.And that is far more likely under Kerry. In fact many already exist.We just have to manufacture and utilise them .Don't panic. even if what you say is true, we will survive.

[Fear]

43. Nature will indeed survive, it's funny to hear people talking about

us destroying nature.....well.....whatever we do, nature will survive, it will deal with the changes, but can we?

[saracat]

28. :Delete Dupe

[Norquist Nemesis]

30. Well said, Melanie. Peak Oil

is not well known out there and it scares the living shit out of those who are just learning about it. It is about the oil...rather the control of the oil. People need to be informed and prepared.

[Bhaisahab]

55. I hear you man. and you're dead right. eom

[scrotim]

87. WHAT exactly is about to cause this cataclysm of which U speak? n/t

[T Town Jake]

50. You said it, not me, but...

...the analogy is not only apt - it's perfect. And pretty much what I'm thinking.

[Forkboy]

62. Is there anyone you disagree with that you dont think is a freeper?

[FleshCartoon]

7. If you are suggesting I...

...take to the bomb shelter immediately and thus avoid casting my vote in November, then I don't think so.

Okay--you're here. Where's Henny Penny?

[maggrwaggr]

8. the war was more about money than oil

Reading Amy Goodman's book now The Exception to the Rulers and it's truly depressing stuff.

It's much worse than I had even thought.

The entire Iraq war was based on greed. Money. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, the riches in question are based on an oil supply, but that's just a coincidence really.

The country is being plundered, and what is really so horribly wrong about it (as if that isn't enough) is that OUR country is being plundered in the process.

That's TWO countries being plundered for the enrichment of a few white-collar gangsters.

[K-W]

10. Nothing is everything.

The War in Iraq is about alot of things. Oil being one of them. Lets not get out of control here. Theres even other potentially apocalyptic factors.

We live in interesting times.

[checks-n-balances]

21. Right, it's not ALL about oil. Anyone who hasn't heard about the PNAC

(Project for a New American Century) should google that along with the word IRAQ and put those pieces together. The public is slowly getting wise about that and at least it's possible that we won't have eternal wars started by the neocons if they end up being rejected and discredited.

Some of us are talking about survival and conservation, and others are talking about right-wing political culture. They aren't totally separate at all, yet I think we're getting them a little mixed up together.

The last thing we need to do now is give up and I do agree that we need to get really serious about our limited resources. I think the original post was saying that no matter who the president is, we're headed for an environmental crisis.

But any of us with an ounce of sense knows the only hope for improvement is Republican defeat in the next election. We've GOT to get energized about that or else all of these bad things are sure to come true even more quickly with Bushco.

[missedherniceguy]

13. Peak oil?

Is there a reliable source claiming peak oil is in play?

[Taylor Mason Powell]

16. It's cropping up here and there in mainstream media.

you can find a good listing here, updated daily:

www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/BreakingNews.html

[missedherniceguy]

27. Thanks...I don't trust vanity sites

Sorry.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

31. You don't have to read the vanity portions of the site...

The "breaking news" page contains links to other media sources. Major, mainstream newspapers and magazines and internet sites from all over the world. That you would probably consider "reliable."

I don't think that counts as a "vanity site." At least, not that page.

But stay in the dark if you prefer. All the more canned goods for me! :-)

[thebigidea]

92. in other news, I don't trust you.

Sorry.

[Must_B_Free]

17. Gee, hasn't Mike Ruppert mentioned this?

:eyes:

[Taylor Mason Powell]

19. And a few other nutcases like the New York Times...

Sure, Ruppert should be taken with a grain of salt, but he's far from the only one talking about this...

[mhr]

47. How About The BBC Reporting On The ASPO Conference Last Month

Is the world's oil running out fast?
By Adam Porter
at the Peak Oil conference in Berlin
Monday, 7 June, 2004

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3777413.stm

If you think oil prices are high at $40 a barrel then wait till they are four times that much.

How will you pay to run your car? How will you get the children to school? How will you heat your house? How much will transported food go up in price?

How will we pay for plastics, metals, rubber, cheap flights, Simpson's DVDs, 3G phones and everlasting economic growth?

The basic answer is, we won't.

This is the message from the Association for the Study of Peak Oil (ASPO).

The group of oil executives, geologists, investment bankers, academics and others has been warning the world of high oil prices, and the ensuing fallout, for some years now.

Snip ......

[Geo55]

20. not in play....soon

http://www.peakoil.net/

[arcos]

37. How about this month's National Geographic?

http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0406/feature5/

[mhr]

46. See All The Links Posted Above - Peak Oil Has Been IN Play

for many years now.

See the interviews with Mathew Simmons who advised Bush/Cheney during the 2000 election.

I really wish more people would do their homework!

[Geo55]

18. Yes....we're screwed

It will be an interesting (an' scary) ride...
Those in power "know" this....why do you think NO ONE is really advocating pulling out of the ME.....BushCo wants it all....Kerry's willing to give the boys a cut.
Get over it , WE ARE NEVER LEAVING THE MIDDLE EAST

[Taylor Mason Powell]

23. Oh I'm sure we'll leave the Middle East...

...just as soon as the oil is no longer profitable to extract.

[KharmaTrain]

22. Did You Used To Sell Y2K Survival Kits???

Somehow we'll survive. Might just take people not being able to fill up their gas hogs to start getting some sanity in the need to have an energy system so dependent on one source controlled by so few hands.

[shraby]

26. Seems I heard the same scare stories

in the 1970s when the gas prices jumped outa sight (for then anyway). Oil will be scarce etc., only in different words. If Bushco gets control of that oil, who do you think will ration it out? Not the U.S., that's for sure. Halliburton, Cheney and Bush. That's who. Our only alternative is to get Kerry elected and start projects for renewable fuels..big time.

[Geo55]

32. I heard the same scare stories

in the 1970s when the gas prices jumped outa sight ...

That was a politically created shortage by OPEC.
The next oil shocks will be caused by demand out stripping world supply.

[specimenfred1984]

33. Bigotry is in the Mix, We'd Never Invade a White Nation

unless they attacked us first.

The elitists think others are inferior, it's amazing that people overlook that. We, the USA, annihilated the Indians, had Africans as slaves, treated women almost like slaves and chimpy still wants to outlaw gay marriage and rights.

It's not just oil, it's who has the oil. Uncomfortable as it may be to think about, many of our citizens are pure bigots, racist to the core and incapable of seeing others as even being human beings.

There's the scary part that, if not dealt with will keep coming back to haunt us for centuries to come. We'll just go massacre the next non-whites or non-Christians for their stem cells or satellites or food or whatever.

[shraby]

34. It was a shortage but

we were told that the oil was running out. Not much left. Same old Same.

[Geo55]

39. Same old Same ?

Not really....
This issue is brought out by some pretty reputable folks.
It's hard to get one's mind around the idea of not having things the way they have always been.
Not trying to convince anyone...Hey ! ...I'd love to believe the earths endowment oil is endless.

[JDPriestly]

40. The prediction in the '70s

was that oil would run out sometime in the first quarter or so of the 21st century. That is the same prediction we are hearing today.

The Southwest United States could provide a great deal of solar energy if we just produced enough solar reflectors, etc. now while we still have the natural resources to do so. And solar energy is not just a possible alternative in the Southwest. I believe that MIT was running a house primarily on solar energy in the early to mid '70s. We should be using more solar energy now.

[Redhead488]

68. Maybe not invade, but bomb the crap out of

Remember Serbia? We bombed a White, X-ian nation to aid a White, Muslim populace.

[sandnsea]

36. Have you never had a campout?

Chill. If we lose all our oil, we'll adapt and live like we did 100 years ago. Cities were full of people and horses, etc. It'll be a local economy. I thought that's what everybody wanted. We'll still have governments and still have schools and doctors and cops and all the rest of it. And we'll still have a President, just like we did in 1776. Maybe we'll be happier too, who knows.

[Geo55]

42. we'll adapt and live like we did 100 years ago

Not knowing where you live....may be possible to sustain a small village.
Most of our system is based on the rapid flow of cheap oil.
Food will be the most important. Population will be cut drastically.

[sandnsea]

51. We have coal

They'll still run trains. I don't know, people will have to grow food and dry food, dig cellars. All that stuff. We'd adapt. New York had a million people by 1860. I lived on the hiline in Montana for 5 years, you learn what you're made of, believe me! I'm on the Oregon Coast now, a bit easier to not worry about it so much, I know!

[Fear]

41. SKULL n BONES

It is about oil, about a stable presents in the middle east etc. etc.
You are right, although perhaps it will make a mild difference.
Problem is people aren't going to vote for any other party either. They always switch between reps or dems......

Type in:
Bush Skull n Bones in Google

Kerry Skull n Bones in Google

And then there's Carlyle etc. etc. They aren't going to move....
http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams?/tv/vpro/tegenlicht/bb.20030516.rm

[Fear]

44. Alternative energy sources have to be found,

and this might include Nuclear fascilities for short term benefits.
There are too many people on this planet. Some other replies I read are very true as well.....which include water shortage / but also food shortage.
Food shortage can be a problem when there's not sufficient energy. Moving to warmer climats to circumvent winter situations would be an answer.

[Th1onein]

65. It's too late. It takes 50 years, at least, to retool the infrastructure

to use these alternative fuels.

[treepig]

80. well, mark up another difference between bush and hitler

since hitler was able to re-tool germany industry and transportation to run on oil converted from coal (which is plentiful, btw, if extremely environmentally unfriendly) in one-tenth that time.

why it will take us ten times that long, what with having imported all those nazi scientists and all, is somewhat mysterious . . . perhaps you have an explanation?

[Th1onein]

95. I don't know. I am only quoting the so-called "experts."

[CaliforniaLady]

45. Tell the auto manufacturers to get on the ball...

Here in California, people are waiting 6 to 8 months to purchase their Hybrid cars. There just aren't enough being manufactured to meet the demands here. And Toyota and Hyundai are the only hybrid options so far; although, local news said GM will begin production in 2006.

California is the biggest oil users and our state population is still growing.

Occidental Petroleum of Los Angeles got a break from Clinton/Gore when they were allowed to purchase oil rights on the naval reserve at Elk Horns, but some of the local environmentalists in that area were not too happy about that.

[T Town Jake]

49. "Kerry, Bush.......makes no difference."

...the second I see that statement made, I automatically discount everything else posted. EOM.

[DoctorWeird]

53. Bush is about a million times worse than Kerry

One just needs to see the "Drive SUVs" bumperstickers on the Freeper websites. Further, buying a few batteries and a few canned goods aren't going to save you. You'll probably die of dehydration first and secondly, do you honestly think if things really got that bad that your neighbors would just die peacefully? I doubt it, they would probably try and steal what you have.

[Disturbed]

54. J. Kerry talks about this.

Go to his site. http://www.johnkerry.com

[Killarney]

56. You are a liar.

You said Kerry, Bush there is no difference.

LIE. LIE. LIE.


Kerry will definitely be different from Bush on this matter. You think an oil man who surrounds himself with other oil men are ever going to invest in alternative energy? NEVER. With Kerry, on the other hand, we have a chance. He has always had a strong record on the environment and supports alternative energy. We have a much better chance of surviving peak oil WITHOUT OILMEN IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

There is a HUGE difference between these two men.

[BiggJawn]

57. So what are we gonna do when the "Pocky-Lips" DOES come, and...

...There's no electricity to run our computers or the internet anymore?

One image I have of the post-pocky-liptic world as laid out in "Mad Max" is that soap seemed to be in as short supply as gasoline. Yuck. I won't mind walking or biking to where I need to go, but I want a shower when I get home!

And did you catch the article about Peak Oil in this month's "National Geographic"? The pix of those 2 boys playing on mom's SUV, that she likes to drive because "If I bump into something, I win.."?
THAT was disgusting.

[sendero]

59. well, I've had ...

.. a project going to do just that for a couple years now. A place in the country where I could survive without electricity or city water.

It would not be a lot of fun, but it is doable. I hope it doesn't come to that but I would not rule it out. And it isn't just about peak oil either. It's about an economic house of cards that could fall at any time.

[Bridget Burke]

60. "Kerry, Bush......makes no difference."

Sorry, you lost me there.

[Commendatori]

61. Then find a cabin away from the city, while

the rest of us vote for Kerry and stick it out.

[Cheswick2.0]

63. Are you a survivalist?

Do you stockpile weapons too?
Don't you think it is better to save the world than destoy it?

[el_gato]

69. Your questions are irrelevant

The depletion of the life blood of this civilization is happening
wether you want it to or not. How does acknowledging this reality
make you think the poster wants to destroy the world, unless you
are referring to the little world you live in.

[Eurobabe]

66. start a garden in your backyard now

[gpandas]

70. and the chinese are just beginning...

to ramp up their manufacturing. can you imagine a billion more cars using this limited resource? or the chinese using all the "labor saving" devices that americans own. i have posted a few times about the morality of the u.s.a. hogging all the resources, and no one seems to care. i guess it's "i'm alright, fuck you jack" to the max.

[treepig]

72. speaking of the chinese, peak oil really is a crisitunity

like always, words of wisdom from the simpsons . . .

Lisa: "Look on the bright side, Dad. Did you know that the Chinese use the same
word for 'crisis' as they do for 'opportunity?'" Homer: "Yes. 'Crisitunity!'".


really, the faster the oil runs out, the better for the planet. there's no shortage of energy (see http://www.cea.fr/gb/publications/Clefs44/contents.htm , for examples) only a shortage of leadership. when it gets too expensive to drive their suv's out to the suburbs everyday, i suspect a lot of rw-er's will pull their heads out of their asses and stop voting for the oil-mongers.

[Suspicious]

93. "Crisitunity"...LOL

I love it! :)

You know, when I first started hearing about Peak Oil, I flipped out - just like the original poster of this thread...then I started reading, and I started thinking about it - a lot.

First of all, as with everything, giving yourself some time to acclimatize is key. Perspective is important.

After my initial panic, and the subsequent reading and researching, I'm beginning to think that this could be a "crisitunity", indeed. If Peak Oil becomes a reality soon, my biggest worry is whether we, as a people, can make it through the transition without our respective leaders blowing everything to kingdom come out of pure greed and the insane desire to control and possess. Certain nations' leaders (and they shall remain nameless, as I'm sure anyone reading here knows exactly who I'm referring to) are our biggest concern, in my opinion.

I'll be first in line to vote this November.

[Geo55]

73. i'm alright, fuck you jack" to the max

Unfortunately it will start to be " I'm not alright , what you have is mine".
Time after time we have witnessed the thin veneer of civilisation peel off.....this issue will rip it right off.

[MadHound]

71. Yes, I agree with your points, however I don't think it is time

To go into full blown panic mode.

Instead, start planning for this onrushing catastrophe now. Remodel your house(if you can) to make it both more energy efficent and able to do without AC. Install a woodstove. Look into earth contact AC. But(or go in with some neighbors) a windmill. Install some solar panels. Plant an organic garden, and become a steward of the land. Make your own biodiesel with which you can power both your diesel car and a diesel generator.

Start taking these measures now, and when the crunch of Peak Oil hits you will be fine.

But going into a full blown panic now is counterproductive. There is probably at least ten years to prepare for this looming menace. Use that time wisely.

[UTUSN]

74. Headline SELECTED for DU Dissention

Am starting a "headline-SELECTED-for-DU-dissention" tickler file. And the additions for 6-16 are ONLY from PAGE ONE of GD.


11. Poll question: Is John Kerry Meeting Your Needs As A Lifestyle Concerned Person? - 6-16-04
10. I will not support Vilsack for VP - Iowan - 6-16-04
9. Ready To Move To Canada? Here's How!! - 6-16-04
8. Al Gore owes Maxine Waters a public apology. - 6-16-04
7. Unless Kerry Gets Off His Ass And Lights A Fire - 6-16-04
6. Forget the presidential election! We are screwed, anyway! - 6-16-04
5. My honest assessment of AAR - 6-15-04
4. What's up with Robert Byrd & the KKK? - 6-15-04
3. Kerry: "we don't really have an opposition party in this country... - 6-15-04
2. Kerry on C-SPAN - middle class? - 6-15-04
1. What's Disturbing about Theresa Heinz Kerry - 6-15-04

[demnan]

75. Well you are right in some of what you say

(but I still think Kerry will make a difference).

Did you all know that the Pentagon has a farm of solar panels installed? I think the government will be doing more of this as time goes on. Everyone should do this that can. Also there is hybrid car technology.

I'm a great believer in human ingenuity and technology. I think we will prevail but we have to try. Giving up is not going to work.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

77. In all the canonization of Ronald Reagan, no one saw fit to mention

that he stopped all the baby steps that the U.S. was taking toward achieving energy independence.

He wasnn't smart enough to do this, but he should have taken the money he wasted on the Pentagon and used it to build high-speed inter-city rail, rail transit systems for every major city, funds for smaller cities to buy alternatively fueled buses, funds for all cities to retrofit themselves for more walking and cycling, funds for scientists to find alternatives to petroleum-based chemical and consumer products, and funds for non-petroleum-based generation of electricity.

But that would have deprived the oil barons of thir chance to make that last buck.

[msmcghee]

78. Long before we run out of oil . .

. . we will re-embrace nuclear power.

The industrialized world will not give up their (our) comfort for safety concerns. Even in a worst case scenario we'd put up with lots of deaths and disease before we'd turn off many of our air conditioners.

Property values would go up in areas remote from reactors and upwind - and down as you get closer and downwind. That's where us poor folks will live.

There will be lots of reactors in our future.

[Th1onein]

79. Well, we've got about six years to do it and then we start to die off.

eom

[treepig]

81. die off from what, exactly?

a lack of hormetic effects from breathing fossil fuel-derived pollutants?

anyhow, since you appear abysmally poor at finding this information yourself, i'll try on more time to post a link showing that there is no freaking shortage of energy!!!

http://www.worldenergy.org/wec-geis/publications/reports/ser/overview.asp

[Th1onein]

90. Starvation.

[rinsd]

94. Look at France....

They get most of their electricity from nuclear power(over 75%). I think they even sell it around the EU.

[2bfree]

82. What's up with the Kerry, Bush.....makes no difference?

You've got to be kidding me! It makes a BIG difference to me.

[vetwife]

83. Let me tell you a little story

People can adapt..period. People won't die from no A/C. The won't. Our A/C works when it wants to. People won't die from no refrigerators. The get coolers and fill em with ice. People won't die from no TV or Laptops.

I had a housefire in the 80's and no insurance. I had a molbile home in the 80's as well that got crashed in transit..they had no insurance. I had no running water, no electricity and no gas and in Ga. it gets cold in Feb. and March. Wanna try 7 to 15 degrees? Back in the 90's before my husband got his disability from the VA, we cooked over an open fire, had no gas and had the lights turned off constantly. We made out. Food? People can cook over open fires. I know. 1800's people did it all the time. We did in 1993. Hot..Open a window...Cold..Hope you got quilts..or blankets? Hungry. Learn to fish or open a can..and we live in a world of batteries. Bathroom problems? Got a jug? This is pure alarm here and people being spoiled. Yeah I like convenienes, got everyone of them. But I can sure survive without them. Would I like to ..No? But we never know what the future brings. During our really hard times and there are all kinds of hard times...We sang, and played the guitar and told stories and watched the stars from the back porch. As poor as we were, we took in our son and two babies. We still made out. We scrubbed floors for 25.00 a week. We did what we could and jsut made out. So can everyone else. Been there..done that for months and months on end.

[Geo55]

84. I admire your spirit & tenacity

But you were an exception surounded by more "spoiled" folks.
Try each of your solutions with millions in the same situation.

[vetwife]

86. Thank you ..But if I can..anyone can..I was real sick physically

I had a hyper thyroid, my husband was in and out of the hospital and all things did was make me stronger, politically, mentally and gave me courage....People...You are a whole long stronger than you think !

[Th1onein]

98. You don't understand how RADICAL the change will be......

Imagine supermarkets with no food, or food that you can't afford to buy. Imagine being so hungry that you will eat dirt (no joke). And if you rise up to complain? Well, there's the Patriot Act, my friend.

Current world population is about 6.4 billion and after the oil crash it will contract to between 500 million-2 billion. Even if you're an optimist, you're looking at FOUR BILLION DEAD!

Bad news, my friend. This will be a catastrophe.

[Geo55]

85. Kerry, Bush.....makes no difference?

Seems like a bit of an over statement inspired by an individual newly confronted by this "elephant on the couch".
Of course it makes a difference in how the coming issues of energy distribution are handled.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

88. yuou are correct and i have done just that 23 acres in the catskill .....

mountians...i have chickens, horses, a trout stream and a beautiful gardenand am surrounded by hundreds of thousands acres of state land full of deer and wild turkeys...i felt this was coming 15 years ago and moved my family to the country from NYC....

[Generator]

91. I know most people are in denial

and it's a necesary mechanism to survive life.

But you are all going to be worm food in-at most seventy years.
That's right, every one of you is going to die. I don't mean that intellectually, I mean it literally. Many will claim to know it in their mind, but until you know it in your gut, well.

I don't give a shit about peak oil. And I don't think this war is about oil or even in the end money. It's about IDEOLOGY, religion, belief and the idea of power. Those are meant to be defeated. They just keep needing to be defeated.

I do care who is president. If you don't think it matters, fine, you are still going to be dead either way. It will make me feel good, in fact joyous, a moment I am waiting for the day Shrubscum is gone. That is worth living for. IF an astroid or WW23 happens the next year, oh well.

I enjoy my illusions. If I die sooner rather than later-great just that much less suffering and being old and sick.

I enjoy my meat, my sun worshipping, my drinking, my ocassional cigarretts, dying my hair, my CAR, my SUGAR. Yes, you die either way.

You paranoid, there is never any hope, we are all controlled by evil all the time and what's the point people, are such a bore.

Even worse is those that want to live at any cost. ( I come from those people and they are the worst there is, life must have meaning and joy not just a heartbeat)

Liberty or death, baby. I want liberty.

[Sterling]

100. Low expectations can be useful.

But I am not optimistic that Kerry is part of the solution to this problem which is in fact "the problem" driving everything else even though you don't want to face it.

[Nlighten1]

96. You will only survive for so long doing that...

It isn't just about peak oil...it is also about the environment. Water is disappearing too. Can't live without water.

[Cleita]

97. Don't forget the defense contracts to rob our treasury.

Halliburton is on top of the list for billing for services and products they don't even deliver. Halliburton executives are quartered in a four star hotel in Kuwait. Employees told to do nothing. Heard on Randi Rhodes this afternoon and Congress Waxman concurs.

[Deja Q]

99. Agreed. Indeed, when Peak oil subsides, KERRY WILL BE TO BLAME:

Bushit* had to strive to put the blame onto the predecessor while he* was doing all the wrong - and succeeded.

The public's memory span is 2 seconds. Which is why Bushit* still has a ~45% approval rating instead of 10%.

You bet there's going to be a problem, especially if Kerry gets into office and peak oil is truth, not myth.