Al Gore owes Maxine Waters a public apology.

[Senior citizen]

When Al Gore was counting the electoral votes, Maxine Waters led the Black Congressional Caucus in an attempt to protest the fraudulent Florida vote. All Gore did was smirk. Waters wasn't just fighting for the Presidency of some smarmy white guy, Waters was fighting for fair elections, for democracy, for America. Gore showed himself to be unfit for the Presidency, a go-along-to-get-along tool of the corporate-owned 2-party fascist machine.

People have asked if the Democratic Party is taking the Black vote for granted. There's the answer. The Democratic Party is taking not just the Black vote, but also the Democratic vote for granted. Gore isn't running, and as his recent fiery speech showed, he is now free to say anything he wants. If he cares about America, about freedom, about justice, about fair elections, and about democracy, he'll wipe the smirk off his face, stand up, and issue a public apology to Maxine Waters. Anything less, and he is as much a hypocrite as the usurper he helped take office when he condescendingly continued to count the fraudulently obtained electoral votes instead of stepping down and standing by Maxine's side the way Bob Filner and the Black Congressional Caucus did. Like they say, if you don't stand for something, you'll stand for anything, and he did.

[Derrow]

1. Uhm, links please? (n/t)

[redqueen]

67. It's on film, even

http://www.suntimes.com/output/eb-feature/cst-ftr-cannes18.html

Much of the material in "Fahrenheit 9/11" has already been covered in books and newspapers, but some is new, and it all benefits from the different kind of impact a movie has. Near the beginning of the film, as Congress moves to ratify the election of Bush after the Florida and Supreme Court controversies, it is positively eerie to see 10 members of Congress -- eight black women, one Asian woman and one black man -- rise to protest the move and be gaveled into silence by the chairman of the session, Al Gore.



I guess you can see it for yourself next Friday.

:(

[Deja Q]

76. I agree totally. Mr. Gore should do this.

He won't.

[Gore1FL]

2. I agree and I don't

It isn't Al Gore that owes the apology -- He could do nothing wihtout a Senator supporting the congressional black caucus.

The Senators who did not stand for Democracy need to be the ones giving the apology.

Of course, the real culprits were the bastards theat stole it in the first place. Sadly, I doubt there is any hope of apologies from that crowd.

[Classical_Liberal]

17. Gore made it easier for them not to support the CBC.

by not supporting them himself.

[Cheswick2.0]

25. bullshit

Care to quote US law that backs up your statement Mr Libertarian?

[Classical_Liberal]

38. Care to back up the claim that I am a liberatarian?

If it is against the law why weren't the CBC arrested for doing it?

[Classical_Liberal]

46. Still waiting! Tick Tick Tick

BTW, I loath libertarians and their friends who run the dlc.

[papau]

3. Maxine Waters/Gore is a 04 issue?

When Maxine makes this comment I'll think there is a problem -

"if you don't stand for something, you'll stand for anything" is a Fox line used to explain that it is ok for Bush to be so wrong about so many things - it is ok because he doesn't change his position.

I think the black/brown - and white and every other skin shade - community has a better grasp of logic - and will not buy the Fox slogan.

[Rebellious Republican]

5. Well said papau! N/T

[Rebellious Republican]

4. Do you suppose you are helping Democrats to unite and taking

back the White House by posting this kind of flame bait. Sure lets just keep stirring up shit and keep the Dem's fighting among themselves. Hell yes, god forbid should Dem's become organized and united, Dem's might actually be able to take back the White House, Senate and Congress. Thats exactly what the repubs want, to divide and conquer. You just keep up the good work maybe your efforts will succeed for them. I get so sick and tired of seeing these kinds of posts, yes the Dem's have some problems and yes there is cause for debate on several issues. How about a proper time and a proper place. Say like after the election, then maybe we can clean house. Get it together folks, if you want to be apart of the solution, rather than a part of the problem!

:puke:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. Hate to break it to you Rebellious Republican, this is the key

difference between the "left" and the "right." The "left" is not afraid of open debate (those in the power structure excluded) and uses these debates to strengthen the reasoning of their positions. The "right" marches in lockstep to the tune played by their leaders, never countenancing dissent.

What you see as being a weakness for "us," I see as a strength. Holding these debates until after the election(s) removes the very nature of their purpose. How do you "clean house" after an election? :freak:

[Rebellious Republican]

66. Well first, whats to debate, the whole damn purpose of the post

was to demand a public apology by Al Gore. What does that have to do with Debate, where is the debate? What debate are you talking about? Reread the post! Who said anything about marching in lock step? Did I say anything about marching in lockstep, no my point was a show of UNITY to defeat the NEOCON machine, but if you prefer we can stand around jerking off debating all the way to November, then in January we can debate how George W. Bush got elected again. How do we clean house after an election, simple, we start by censuring those that need be. Where did I say it was a weakness? Please show me! You have done nothing but prove my point in my post, this is nothing more than a flame bait thread. Read the entire thread, what has it proved, not a damn thing. Other than getting people pissed off at each other, what does that do, divides us, what does that do, helps the repubs conquer! My point exactly. I know what you probably were attracted to, my pseudonym. You do not have a damn clue as to what you are spouting off about, get your facts straight before you attack! My feeling is you just attacked because of my pseudonym, without even reading my post or the post that I was replying to. When you do have a legitimate debate, let me know, because I do enjoy, healthy, constructive debate.
:crazy:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

74. Nutshell view.

You called the post "flamebait." Said it's time to pull together to defeat the neo-cons.

My point, perhaps not eloquently stated, was that the mere fact that "we're" discussing this issue has nothing to do with whether we're on board for defeating Chimp. If people weren't already on board, they wouldn't be here in the first place.

Smaller nutshell:

Discussing good. Ignoring bad.

[Rebellious Republican]

75. Discussing good, Ignoring bad, that I can agree on! N/T

[Classical_Liberal]

18. Those who didn't support Maxine were the ones creating disunity

. Since Florida is doing another vote purge this year, it was also stratigically retarded not to press the case. Do Dems seriously think we can win elections if we allow republicans to discriminate against our voters at the polls?

[Cheswick2.0]

26. We?

You have said in the past you are a libertarian. Did you change your party registration?

[Classical_Liberal]

37. What? I have never said any such thing

? Prove it! You have a star do a search.

[Rebellious Republican]

68. Press what case, the only thing I see in that post is a demand for

a public apology by Al Gore. Where did I say anything about "not supporting Maxine". Show me where I said that. All I asked for is for Dem's to UNITE long enough to defeat the Neocons that OWN this country right now. To answer your question "Do Dem's seriously think we can win elections if we allow republicans to discriminate against our voters at the polls?" The answer is no, we do need to be doing everything we can to prevent future thefts. Do you suppose pointing fingers at each other and name calling is going to do the trick. I live in Florida and understand full well what has happened in my state in regards to voter purges. I have posted in defense of this subject often, but apparently you have missed those posts. That is all the more reason as to why we need to take a united stance against the right wing neocons, get it?

[Bridget Burke]

6. Bull

When did Maxine Waters say this?

[Gore1FL]

7. She didn't

and I don't think she would. She acknowledged at the time they didn't have a Senator as required.

The real issue was dropping that aspect during the challenges in FL -- though it is clear now that the GOP was getting their man, rule of law or not.

Again -- the real culprits are the REpublicans that stole the votes, not Gore.

[Bridget Burke]

12. My representative didn't ask for an apology, either.

And the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee is not known for her reticence.

[Classical_Liberal]

19. Maxine was trying to hold the Republicans accountable for this vote

theft. What was the point of not backing her up?

[Cheswick2.0]

27. How exactly would he do that under the law?

answers please?

[Classical_Liberal]

33. It isn't against the law to walkout of the Senate in protest

He could have easily joined them.

[rock]

8. You're wrong

Which is hard to be when all you're doing is making a sweeping characterization. But you've mangaged.

[JNelson6563]

9. Bullshit

Your memory fails you. Too bad.

Go cry victim elsewhere.

Julie

[SummerGrace]

10. Not a dem or repub issue

The Congressional Black Caucus tried to get Congress to assert their balance of power and the whole Senate wimped out.

[Senior citizen]

11. Okay, I'm wrong and I apologize.

What was needed was just one Senator.

And dammit, I'm voting for him.

I'll just never get over the way Gore acted--as if a protest against the fraud in Florida was faintly embarassing.

But I also agree that this is neither the time nor the place. We need to get * out first, then clean house. And Senate.

Maybe it is the entire Democratic Party that owes Maxine a public apology--I think a Cabinet seat would be appropriate.

[GregW]

43. If you're wrong, then kill this thread

instead of soaking up everyone's bandwidth

:eyes:

[ShaneGR]

13. I guess going to the Supreme Court wasn't enough....

What do you think he should have done? Lead an armed insurgency?

[Bridget Burke]

14. He didn't go to the Supreme Court.

Bush is the one who filed the frivolous lawsuit.

But after the Supreme Court ruled against him, there was no other legal recourse.

[ShaneGR]

48. True....

My point was there wasn't anything else that could be done at that point... short of organizing a rebelion.

[Classical_Liberal]

16. I'm glad Gore is speaking out, but I happen to agree with this

editorial. Not supporting the CBC was really a nasty thing, and all Gore and the other dems should be ashamed.

[Bridget Burke]

20. It's not an editorial. Just one person's opinion.

Gore doesn't have a thing to be ashamed of. Not so sure about the other Dems.

[Classical_Liberal]

22. Gore should be ashamed that he didn't support the cbc walkout

along with the other dems. It was a civil rights issue, and a matter of political intelligence. We can't win if Blacks can't vote. Don't forget that as VP he resided in Congress that day. He was one of the people not supporting the walkout.

[Cheswick2.0]

31. No dear, he was the VP that day

And it would not have been right for him to walk out that day. What a bizarre idea.

[Classical_Liberal]

35. So what. VP's can walk out in protest too?

Do you seriously think protesting and walkouts are a bizarre idea? Boy those Texas dems what a bunch of losers. Are you saying the CBC was wrong for walking out? What is not right about expressing outrage over Blacks not being able to vote?

[Cheswick2.0]

30. oh please

Gore did what he had to do by law and he did it with dignity and honor. I think you have another aggenda here.

[Classical_Liberal]

40. There is not law against walking out

If their were the CBC would have been arrested. Pray tell what is my agenda, and back up your claims with some citations please.

[redqueen]

69. Gore ignored the ILLEGAL purging of voters

and you seriously are going to sit there and pretend he did the 'honorable' thing?

Yeah, I agree there is an agenda here -- it's called waking people the hell up.

[Kahuna]

21. I don't recall Al Gore smirking once during that period.

Not one time. What reason would he have to smirk? The presidency was in the process of being stolen.

[dryan]

23. If I recall...

this whole thing started when the Electoral College votes were publically read in the Congress. Gore in his position as President of the Senate went through the votes. When it was announced what the total vote was, there was a lot of booing. Gore shrugged his shoulders. What was the poor guy to do? He was in an impossible situation.

[Vadem]

64. He was withholding laughter, as if the whole thing were

funny! I was on the Capitol grounds that day protesting with Democrats.com (and the freepers) and listening to the proceedings on C-Span radio. I later watched the tape on C-Span. I was furious with the Senate Dems for not being with CBC in total. How could they not? I called every Senate Dem. the next day (Saturday); of course, they weren't in their offices but I left each of them a scathing message in which I called them all cowards and worse.

[Cheswick2.0]

24. this is absolute unmitigated garbage!

There was no legal recourse. Since not one single senator could be found to stand with the CBC Gore did what he had to do. He was NOT Smirking. That was a sad smile of appreciation for her efforts.

Jesus Christ, the man was hurt worse than anyone and we still have to read this Gore bashing bullshit here on a sight that was created in response to that stolen election. Just because you feel helpless and angry is no reason to push it off on Gore. Where the hell were you during the recount?

Post like yours and some of those above, both DLC, Naderbot and Freeper, are the reason I think the left is every bit as dumb and uninformed as the right.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tom_paine]

29. I'm afraid I agree. I shall never forget the CBCs actions on that day

Never. I don't always agree with the CBC, not by a long sight, but theirs was a profile in courage never to be forgotten.

And if the Old American Republic truly DID die on 12/12/2000 (we should all be working and donating our asses off to make sure that is REVERSED), then the CBCs noble actions are a fitting coda.

[Cheswick2.0]

32. usually I agree with you , but since the CBC is not mad at Gore

I think they have a better understanding of situation than you do.

[Classical_Liberal]

39. I rather doubt they aren't mad about it.

. Most of the black press at the time were pretty mad about it.

[tom_paine]

58. Even if they weren't mad, Gore still owes them an apology

And I was at the time and still am (albeit disappointed) a Gore Supporter.

I would have worked for him EVEN HARDER than I am for Kerry, and that's saying a lot.

But the CBC was right. So terribly right. Gore owes them an apology and all of us an apology.

This election should be Bush-Gore II and Gore would be destroying right now, even with the Bushevik Sub-Media and Corproate TV Pravda so biased.

[Freddie Stubbs]

34. Gore's hands were tied

Any objection had to be sponsered by both a member of the House and the Senate. No Senators were willing to step up.

[Classical_Liberal]

41. Gores role to refresh everyones memory

Cindy Hall, president of the South Florida Federation of Labor, also praised the CBC-led walkout. "It was great," she said. "We need to keep reminding people of what happened in Florida because two years from now Gov. Jeb Bush will be up for reelection."

Hall scorned the calls for bipartisanism. "The is coming after us. There is nothing compassionate about their conservatism."

The attempt to block the counting of Florida’s 25 electoral votes came during a usually pro forma joint session of the House and Senate.

Reps. Peter Deutsch and Alcee Hastings, both Florida Democrats, had announced in advance they would protest Florida’s votes. Deutsch attempted to stop the proceedings because of lack of a quorum, he was gaveled down by Vice President Al Gore who was in the chair as president of the Senate.

"It is our duty to publicly acknowledge our strong opposition to the acceptance of the presidential electors from Florida for Gov. George W. Bush." Hastings said. The American people are looking to us for leadership. In this case, leadership calls for courage."

When asked if her objection had been signed by a senator, as required by congressional rules, Maine Waters (D-Calif.) snapped angrily, "I don’t care that it is not signed by a senator."

Rep. Jesse Jackson, Jr., (D-Ill.) told the chamber, "It is a sad day in America when we can’t find a senator to join this objection."

At a news conference, following the walkout Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson (D-Texas), chair of the Black Caucus declared, "Our action puts Bush on notice that without justice, there will be no peace."

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:B-PtDgefPhAJ:www.pww.org/past-weeks-2001/Congressional%2520walkout.htm+CBC+Gore+Florida+walkout&hl=en

[Freddie Stubbs]

42. Wellstone could have signed the objection

But he chose to remain silent. So many here see him as a hero beyond reproach. Perhaps he knew what he was doing when he did not sign the objection.

[Classical_Liberal]

45. All of them owe an apology but Gore has the spotlight.

.

[Freddie Stubbs]

47. But he was not a Senator, and was unable to sign an objection

He was simply the presiding officer following the rules. If he had attempted to deviate from those rules, the GOP would have taken him to court, and you can guess what the result of that would have been.

If one Senator had been willing to sign the objection, he would of course been obliged to entertain it.

[Classical_Liberal]

50. He didn't have to gavel Deutch's attempt to stop proceedings

because their was not quorum. Had he not done this more Senators might have reconsidered. Leastways it would have gotten attention from the media.

[Freddie Stubbs]

52. All that would have done

would be to trigger a quorum call, requiring all of the members of Congress to show up for a roll call. I'm not sure why you think that this would have changed any minds. It wasn't a secrect that the CBC was going to raise objections.

[Classical_Liberal]

53. They might not have showed up

In the meantime the CBC could have made a bigger stink. I believe in pissing in the repuke pool as often as possible.

[Freddie Stubbs]

54. Sometimes pissing in the pool

only makes you look like a baby. The GOP got enough mileage with images like

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:chUofqjkvM0J:fs.huntingdon.edu/jlewis/Outlines

this.

[Classical_Liberal]

55. Sometimes pissing in the pool spreads proper outrage

and every American should be pissed about the vote purge. Maybe MLK should have just stayed home and not protested segregation. It might have made him look like a big baby.

[Freddie Stubbs]

56. MLK was smart enough to know that you had to pick and choose

your fights. It appears that all of the Democrats in the Senate were as well.

[Classical_Liberal]

59. Are you seriously claiming MLK wouldn't side with CBC

on the right to vote? That is pretty counter-intuitive. In fact not supporting the cbc was counter intuitive politically since we will likely lose Florida to a second vote purge. It is the Zell Miller Dixiecrat mentality frankly.

[Freddie Stubbs]

61. Did paul Wellstone have the same "Zell Miller Dixiecrat mentality ?"

As he seems to have taken the same action of this as the rest of the Senate.

[Classical_Liberal]

62. On that issue and on the Patriot Act

he sure did. The dem leadership really gives bad advise(to the point that I think they are filled with moles) and Wellstone should have known better.

He had more guts that most, but on that issue and on the Patriot Act he failed. WE can now be held without trial or charges and we are to have yet another Jim Crow vote purge in Florida that may well cost us the election.

[redqueen]

70. Thanks for your great posts on this thread

I can't help wondering why anyone would think, good as he was, that Paul Wellstone was anything but human... and as such capable of screwing up (as he obviously did, more than once, duh).

[UTUSN]

36. Headline SELECTED for DU Dissention

Am starting a "headline-SELECTED-for-DU-dissention" tickler file. And the additions for 6-16 are ONLY from PAGE ONE of GD.


11. Poll question: Is John Kerry Meeting Your Needs As A Lifestyle Concerned Person? - 6-16-04
10. I will not support Vilsack for VP - Iowan - 6-16-04
9. Ready To Move To Canada? Here's How!! - 6-16-04
8. Al Gore owes Maxine Waters a public apology. - 6-16-04
7. Unless Kerry Gets Off His Ass And Lights A Fire - 6-16-04
6. Forget the presidential election! We are screwed, anyway! - 6-16-04
5. My honest assessment of AAR - 6-15-04
4. What's up with Robert Byrd & the KKK? - 6-15-04
3. Kerry: "we don't really have an opposition party in this country... - 6-15-04
2. Kerry on C-SPAN - middle class? - 6-15-04
1. What's Disturbing about Theresa Heinz Kerry - 6-15-04

[tom_paine]

60. Do you have proof? Am FR or lucianne link?

I don't doubt that Uncle Karl's Boys do just this but isn;t this list aribitray based on your feelings.

Proof these are all intentionally planted threads? Anything to bolster your assertion, or is it just opinion?

[UTUSN]

63. I Said Nothing about "intentionally planted"

And my assertion that negative (about Dems) threads is us shooting ourselves in the foot IS my arbitrary opinion, just like about 99% of what is posted.

But relax, my little experiment is over. Resume the foot-shooting.

[tom_paine]

65. Ok, my bad. No foot-shooting from me.

n/t

[kaitykaity]

44. Oh, Yawn.

More Gore bashing.

Gee, I thought I came to DU to get away from
this shit.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

49. Thanks for being as divisive as humanly possible on DU.

[dpbrown]

51. Why do anarchists all use the same symbol?

This diatribe shows the same logic as the conformity adhered to by so-called "anarchists."

This is a bogus complaint about Gore.

[Tomee450]

57. I remember that

incident with Maxine Waters. I did not like Gore's attitude at all. The CBC wasn't supported by members of its own party. I am happy about what Gore is doing now but was pretty disgusted with him at the time.

[redqueen]

71. This is absolutely insane

For goodness' sake, people, calm down!

This isn't 'bashing' Gore, it's just relating something that bothers someone, and relating the opinion that he should apologize. I don't know how much he could have done by at least acting as if he cared that thousands of people had been denied their right to vote, but I know I was sorry to see that he was the one shutting up the JUSTIFIED outrage in the House.

I agree that the thread bashing Teresa because she used to be republican was stupid, but IMO this is meaningful. Not everything that appears to be meaninglessly divisive really is.

*sigh*

[Bridget Burke]

72. Sometimes things that appear to be meaninglessly divisive.....

Really have a meaning.

Too bad Gore did not engage in performance art for your amusement.

[redqueen]

73. Things like what? Example please?

And how dare you try to equate standing up for the voting rights of Americans with 'performance art'.

:eyes: