Let's talk about the pros and cons for the California recall

[CatWoman]

[FlashHarry]

1. Pro? It will shatter the California GOP

As I said in another post, CA conservatives loathe Arnold. He's pro-choice, pro-education, pro-gay and (moderately) anti-gun. BushCo are backing him solely to get an 'R' in the gubanatorial win column--the one low point of their 2002 anschluss.

[CatWoman]

2. good start, Harry

:hi:

[dfong63]

7. another pro...

whether the dems win or lose in this election, i think it demonstrates a very important point: the sky won't fall if there's a follow-up election. anyone remember the atmosphere after election (theft) 2000? when it was discovered just how badly botched FL's election was, a lot of us felt that it should have been re-done. but of course the GOP wouldn't hear of it. now we have proof that re-doing an election is not at all out of the question. they're doing it, in a case where they think it'll be to their advantage. next time a situation arises where it's to our advantage, we can point to this situation in CA for proof that it's a fair and small-d democratic solution.

[realFedUp]

14. there is a difference between Florida and CA

gads, that was a lame argument. Florida's recount legally should have had all the ballots in Florida recounted after that democratic election. This is a recall one year after a legal democratic election. This isn't a redo of an election too close to call.

This is about a failing CA GOP that needs to reinvigorate its
Republican base for the Presidential election next year and
California taxpayers are paying for it again...it wasn't good
enough that we were gouged by Republican owned energy corporations
after Pete Wilson's era voted in deregulation.

Gads, I hate stupid Democrats.

[Shrek]

3. Possible con : where will it end?

[RichM]

6. CarrotTop for Governor!!

Good 'toon! :bounce:

[CatWoman]

16. But I'd rather vote for Dishonest John

:hi:

[Brian Sweat]

4. I'm not sure about the Pros,

but the cons are behind the recall.

[dfong63]

5. here's one pro... comment by buffett

buffett suggests CA property tax too low

a lot of the state's problems can be traced back to prop 13 which capped property taxes at a very low level (read article). but to a lot of voters, prop 13 is the most sacred of sacred cows. so if it has to be touched, perhaps it'd be only fair to have the repubs take the heat for doing it. i doubt even Arnie "the groper" would have the balls to do it, though.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

15. Prop 13.

is literally the only thing allowing me to stay in CA. Without it, I would be forced to abandon the family home.

I think there are ways to fix 13 re: commercial properties, but, with new property taxes running into the 4-5 thousand rage, it is needed more than ever for many of us here.

[Terwilliger]

18. I couldn't imagine the property taxes going higher

They're already staggering, especially in Berkeley, and our roads are STILL in terrible shape.

[dfong63]

8. and a con... the governor makes judicial appointments

... and we've already got too many conservative repubs on the bench.

[dfong63]

9. another con... poss election fraud

with a repub in the governor's office, there's an increased chance of election fraud ala FL 2000.

[rock]

10. Well, rember when they cancelled TV shows lickety-split?

We had NO good shows. The good ones didn't have time to develop an audience. If a show didn't immediately put out, it was cancelled. This is just another take on short term decisions leading to long term ill. What if a politician were to make nothing but short term decisions?

You're still the Cats!

On edit: typo

[dfong63]

11. another con... steroid abuse may become more popular

[dfong63]

12. does anyone know Arnie's position on environmental issues?

nuclear power, coastal oil drilling, timber harvests, clean air, fuel efficient cars, recycling, endangered species, public transit, urban sprawl, development, etc?

[RichM]

13. It's too early to name pros & cons, but there are dangers & potential

positives that might develop. (I'd certainly bet, right now, that the negative scenario is the one that will actually happen.)

If Arnold wins, I view it as an intensely dangerous development, made all the worse by the fact that it will be treated as a festive & amusing lark by the media. The precedent will be set that Republicans can 1) help plunder a state Treasury via its Enron-type friends, then 2) blame this on the sitting Democratic governor, & 3) use this to mount a successful coup d'etat 10 months after a completely legitimate election. Yet this hideously antidemocratic & dishonest maneuver will be COMPLETELY obscured by all the merry chuckling about "The Terminator," "Hasta la Vista, Baby", & the Hollywood Glam angle.

Furthermore, it will help reinforce in the public mind the stupid notion that all you have to be, to win high office, is rich and/or famous. Bushler can be president JUST BECAUSE his daddy is a powerful man. Arnold can be president JUST BECAUSE he's a movie star.

On the other hand, if Arnold loses, the above-mentioned stupidities and crimes against democracy will have been rejected by the electorate. It will serve notice to the rightwing that the public is not so dumb & easily manipulated, after all. (I'll have to see this happen, to believe it.) The BEST way in which this could happen is if the recall itself is defeated; then Davis remains in office, which is the fairest & most democratic outcome.

There is of course some tiny chance, at least in theory, that the recall will win, but some other candidate besides Arnold will gain the office. If this is Bustamente, it's at least better than Arnold (that's the best one could say about it). But since we're talking about tiny probabilities, now: suppose a really progressive candidate like the Green (Camejo), or Arianna, or a Socialist wins? Now that's something nice to dream about...

[Terwilliger]

17. why do you think there's only a tiny chance that the Recall will succeed?

The Recall will most likely go through, ESPECIALLY now that Bustamante is on the ticket.

[RichM]

20. I mean that the probability of the outcome "Recall wins" AND Arnie losing

(both things together) seems small to me. I hope I'm wrong. If Cruz wins, I'm OK with it.

[David__77]

19. Decimation of CA social conservatives?

I think if Arnie wins, then the anti-gay faction is consigned to the wilderness. I'm trying to be objective here. I do think that he would not oppose same sex couple adoption or even same sex marriage. Being gay, that's important to me. I think his reign would be irreversible damage to the social conservatives.

On the one hand, when his cultural liberalism is exposed fully, it will depress core GOP activists, so that's good as well. On the other, the "softer" liberal facade on anti-people policies will make it important to shift tactics against the GOP. We cannot necessarily rely on the "their anti-gay bigots and against the right to choose" point as being the winning ticket... It's just like the corporations: they attack workers' wages and unions while extending domestic partnership benefits and giving money to minority groups to look "nicey-nice." That's what Arnie is to state politics.

What I want to see is if CA people on the right will actually choose someone committed to unrestricted abortion rights and same sex marriage (though he won't say that), and who in all probability will raise taxes. It's an interesting election...

[VOX]

21. Con: That it is actually going to happen...

Pro: Understanding that this whole game is NOT about Gray Davis. We can kick hell out of the Rethugs and Rove (who are salivating to get CA in their jaws) by turning out in large numbers to DEFEAT the recall.

This will be a signal test in how motivated we are to actually get out and put sand in the gas tank of the right-wing machine.

We've got to stop this thing. Here's a chance to walk the walk.