My sister works for the military, she says the Draft IS coming....

[mopaul]

She works for the Air Force in the midwest, and some of her friends work for the recruiting arm of the Force, and overall, recruiters in all branches of the military agree, the draft is certain, an soon.

I know this is second party heresay, from an invisible guy at a keyboard, and I can't back it up like a journalist. All I know is what my own sister tells me, and I have no reason to doubt her.

I do not want a draft. There is no good reason for my son, or my sister's two sons, to go die for GODDAMNED NOTHING!

I will not have a draft in the united states of america under bush, or under kerry EITHER.
I will not have it.

[GreenPartyVoter]

1. How can we stop it? What should we do?

[mopaul]

3. I wish I knew how to stop it

i'm just one father. maybe a parent's revolution? i'd honestly rather they go past my dead ass to get to my own son.

fuck them

[Dems Will Win]

5. Vote for Kerry, he will not reinstate

This summer Bush is reducing DRAFT ACTIVATION time by having the SSS conduct NATIONWIDE EXERCISES to test the whole system, even to the point of filling all DRAFT BOARD vacancies and gearing up the Alternative Service for COs for the first time in three decades. With the current reactivation plan due to go into effect in a few weeks, the SSS must report to the Director on March 31, 2005 they are tuned up and ready to conscript within 75 days of reauthorization from Congress (just a trigger resolution is needed, no new law). The first lottery for 20 year-olds could be June 15, 2005.

http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html

That's what Bush is doing. Quietly oiling up the DRAFT Machinery for Spring 2005.

Kerry's NO-DRAFT plan to raise 40,000 additional troops and avoid reinstatement of the draft is added up this way (my synthesis):

1. Move some paper-pushers to combat (lots of potential there in nearly a million non-active-duty)
2. Increase enlistment with real scholarships and pay raises
3. Let troops know Special Ops will hunt al-Queda, no more invasions needed, so Guard/Reserve re-up rate goes up. "Primarily a law enforcement effort, not a full military effort", say JK on MTP last Sunday.
4. Start a "Civilian Stability Corps" that would help in reconstructing Afghanistan and Iraq and relieve military pressure.
5. GET FOREIGN TROOPS TO COME INTO INSTEAD OF LEAVE IRAQ!!

http://www.candidatemap.com

"...I propose that we enlist thousands of them in a Civilian Stability Corps, a reserve organization of volunteers ready to help win the peace in troubled places. Like military reservists, they will have peacetime jobs; but in times of national need, they will be called into service to restore roads, renovate schools, open hospitals, repair power systems, draft a constitution, or build a police force. A Civilian Stability Corps can bring the best of America to the worst of the world—and reduce pressure on the military."
< Source: Kerry, John. "Protecting Our Military Families in Times of War: A Military Family Bill of Rights." March 17, 2004. http://johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0317.html >

With this NO-DRAFT PLAN, Kerry will not have to resort to conscription, even after Bush screwed the whole thing up.


From STOPTHEDRAFT.COM

http://technologyreports.net/stopthedraft/?articleID=2550

What do a former fighter pilot in the National Guard and a former officer in the Navy have in common? Both have promised not to reinstate the military draft if elected president.

Senator John Kerry has promised that if elected president he will not reinstate the military draft, but will increase troop numbers by 40,000.

President Bush and his staff have also promised the American public that there are no plans to reinstate the military draft.

-snip-

John Kerry wants to deploy 40,000 more troops to Iraq and finish the job quickly. Yet when asked how he would do it, he said that a draft is not needed and people will enlist. To his advantage, however, Senator Kerry was an anti-war activist after serving his duties as a Navy officer in the Vietnam War and knows first-hand the pitfalls of the military draft.

-snip-

Kerry said on MTP that we don't need to invade whole nations beyond Afghanistan. He has a plan to increase 40,000 troops without a draft, a plan to bring in foreign troops to Iraq.

There's this: http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2004_0330b.html

“When I returned from service in the military, I testified to the Congress about the racism in the military, about the lopsided application of the draft, the impact that it had on minority communities, the lopsided number of casualties, both African-American and Hispanic, predominantly.

“And I testified to the Congress about the inequality of the application of the draft and the way in which they were treated when they came home, left in communities that were neglected and lacked health care and education and other issues.”


Also this: http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2003_1203a.html

"Kerry also said he doesn’t believe there is a need to reinstate the draft, a source of conflict during the Vietnam War. "

BUSH '04 = DRAFT '05

[truthspeaker]

8. he probably won't start unnecessary wars either

reducing the strain on our armed forces.

[Walt Starr]

24. Everybody who is drafted MUST REFUSE TO SERVE!

It's the only way to stop it, otherwise, they get away with it.

Draftees who report should simply SIT DOWN. Do nothing. Accept no orders and accept no authority over you.

Everybody has to do it or they get away with forced servitude.

[radwriter0555]

35. How to Be a Conscientious Objector:

http://www.objector.org/advice/contents.html

[Raskolnik]

37. Try to get on your local draft board.

[WI_DEM]

2. this country will errupt if the politicians try

I can gurantee you that.

[mopaul]

4. I think that will be 'the line'

you know, that mystical line that you cross, and then it's too late.

[alittlelark]

69. But will they 'erupt' after * enables the next terror attack??

It'll be a doozy.....big time. This time I'd guess 30-40% of Americans would be suspicious - but the rest will do the whole 9-11 song and dance (almost 90% did it last time)

Will they wake up and THINK...or will they be all 'patriotic' and send their children to die for natural resources?

We'll find out before Nov. 2, won't we:-( x( ;(

[Fenris]

6. I hope to God that Americans remember what the draft created in SE Asia.

An army of soldiers who did not want to fight facing an army of the committed fighting for their homeland.

[Hubert Flottz]

7. It's GOT to happen!

IF Bush wins! Stop loss IS conscription, it's already happened! The kids had better get their young asses out and vote, because it's coming if things don't change bigtime!

[LeftyDonkey]

9. Questions

Anyone else with close friends or family in the military hearing similar things? Obviously there are rumblings over the internet (like this thread and others like it), but is there any more official or substantiated news anyone is aware of? Also, should a draft begin, how do we fight it? I heard a rumor that a treaty with Canada was changed so that draft-dodgers could no longer run to Canada (the Canadians would be required to find and return them). Can anyone confirm or deny that one? mopaul-can your sister give any other details? Timetable? Deferment options or CO info (if any)?
Oh to be of draft age in America...:beer:

[Mr. Blonde]

13. The Fugitive Slave Act? n/t

[doni_georgia]

70. Good thinking

and welcome to DU! :yourock:

Mac in Ga

[RamboLiberal]

10. If you saw 60 Minutes last night - 45,000 Army on Stop Loss

And more coming as units soon as units are designated for duty in Iraq or Afghanistan. According to 60 Minutes Army has 500,000 troops, so nearly 10% of the Army has now been stopped lossed.

One 20 year vet who feels he's done his duty and wants to retire, last night on 60 Minutes he had to hide in the shadows to give his opinion says his family feels like he's a POW to his country.

Our military is about to break.

[Hubert Flottz]

16. That stop loss law is more unfair than the draft!

That is no way to repay our Vets! They are going to destroy the military because they are playing politics with it now! Bush knows he will need to start up the draft, but he also knows it will cause him to lose in November IF he does it now! If Bush wins in November the greetings letters will be in the mail by January one! Talking about a sinking feeling, wait till it's you that gets a letter like that!(been there done that)

Ralph Nader don't give a damn either! A vote for Ralph is a ticket to the Army! Maybe a one way ticket!

[Bjornsdotter]

11. Not mine, not yours

Mopaul,

I'm with ya hun. They aren't taking mine either.

You had one very important sentence in your post...."I will not have a draft in the united states of america under bush, or under kerry EITHER.
I will not have it."

I fear that there will be a draft NO matter who is elected...and yes I know Kerry said that there would be no draft and politicians never lie or change their minds.

Cheers,
Kim

[Kanary]

18. Yes, a draft no matter *what* or *who*

I fear that those who take solace in the thought that all this madness will stop under Kerry are......
Well, going to find themselves sadly mistaken, and by then it will be too late.

Worse, one can't even express that very real concern without being flamed here.

The time to act is NOW..... not after the fact.

Kanary

[mopaul]

22. NOW........it may already be too late

we can't have this

[Kanary]

26. It may be......... I don't know... I certainly hope not

But, what I *DO* know is that if something isn't started now to counteract it, then the chances are much greater.

Have you looked around to find out if there are already organizations coming together to fight this? If not, it may be up to you to start something like that. One thing is for sure.......... just worrying about it doesn't get very far. There are so many presing issues, and we're going to have to shake off our hesitance to get involved, and start taking action.

I hope you can find something that is already started......... please post it if you do.

Kanary

[Dems Will Win]

25. AND ANOTHER FLAME!

Why do people on DU help the Republicans with this unfounded fear that Kerry will restart the draft when you have no basis in fact for saying so other than unfounded fear?

I don't get it. Are you still trying to prove your Progressive credentials? Try to do that after the election, please. We are trying to get the youth to wake up around the US and vote!!

Saying Kerry will draft too is just so easy to say. BUT YOU HAVE NO FACTS!! WTF ARE THEY??

I HAVE FACTS, KERRY HAS A PLAN. YOU HAVE WORRIES, YES WE ALL DO!

KEEP THEM TO YOURSELF AND INSTEAD FIND OUT THE TRUTH ABOUT

KERRY'S

NO-DRAFT PLAN!

Then write threads about that.

Unless you really would rather have decades more Bushes in the White House.

[Kanary]

29. Ah, yes, right on cue.

Expressing any worries automatically qualifies as a flame.

:eyes:

And, NO, I WON"T "Keep them to myself"

You may want to be in control, but we still have the First Ammendment..... probably not for long, the way this country is going, but at this moment, it's still there.

Some people actually want to *Save* their country........

Imagine that......

buh bye.......

Kanary

[Dems Will Win]

41. If people could please post the KERRY WILL START A DRAFT TOO

POSTS on the Free Republic, please. That's where fact voids to defeat Democrats belong, not here on DU.

Unless of course, you would like to discuss numbers on the DRAFT and have a real argument instead of a knee-jerk reaction left over from the dogma of the primaries. Yes he voted for IWR but that does not mean he will reinstate a draft HE DOES NOT NEED.

I'm sick of people saying Kerry would start the DRAFT and I'm going to rebut every damn thread to the hilt!

[Walt Starr]

43. sorry if the truth hurts

He won't have a choice. The violence will only escalate and we will be faced with one of two choices:

1) Pull all of the troops out now/

2) NEarly double the troop levels to the original estimates by the generals who know what the fuck they are doing and reinstate the draft to be able to maintain such levels.

That's it. That's the military reality of the situation on the ground. We went in with half the force necessary to occupy the nation and things are falling apart. Kerry must either draft, or leave. There's no other way.

[Walt Starr]

30. Because Kerry won't have a fucking choice but to restart the draft!

There is one way and one way only to stop a draft from being absolutely necessary.

That way is to remove ALL of our troops from Iraq IMMEDIATELY!

Anything short of that and there will have to be a draft. Sorry if you don't like it, but that's the reality of the war we are in and that Kerry voted in favor of.

[Dems Will Win]

23. THIS IS SO UNFAIR TO KERRY! HE COMES UP WITH A

REALISTIC PLAN TO NOT HAVE TO REINSTATE THE DRAFT AND YOU DON'T EVEN TAKE THE TIME TO STUDY THE ISSUE AND REFUTE THAT WITH SOME NUMBERS!

IF YOU ARE GOING TO ACCUSE KERRY OF NOT HAVING A REALISTIC PLAN THEN SHOW ME THE NUMBERS.

BUT YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO BECAUSE KERRY IS CORRECT. THE ONLY REASON YOU WOULD NEED A DRAFT WOULD BE TO KEEP ALL OTHER COUNTRIES OUT OF IRAQ TO CONTROL THE OIL AND THEN INVADE MORE COUNTRIES.

KERRY ISN'T GOING TO DO EITHER ONE, WHILE BUSH WILL DO BOTH. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE.

DON'T FORGET THE FRENCH LOVE KERRY AND IF HE TURNS OVER RECONSTRUCTION TO THE UN AS HE PROMISES, THEN THEY WILL HAPPILY PUT IN TROOPS INTO IRAQ WHEN HE ASKS THEM!

[Walt Starr]

31. But it is NOT a realistic plan

There is one way and only one way to stop a draft.

Cut and run.

thems the choices. don't like it, tough!

Kerry has no fucking choice because he supports staying in Iraq.

[Dems Will Win]

36. Look Walt we are talking troop rotations here and a couple of divisions

Kerry will easily make the 2005 troop rotation. It's the 2006 rotation that could give him a problem if he gets zero support from NATO, France and Russia. But that won't happen.

The insurgency will subside as Kerry brings in the UN and the Iraqis start running things. Then yes we get out and the warlords and everyone there fights it out for control, that is the only way it will end, we all know and Kerry, who accepted the inevitable loss in Vietnam, will do the same here.

Are you saying Kerry will invade Syria and Iran as Bush plans to? Becaus that would be the only reason for President Kerry to need a DRAFT.

If so YOU ARE WRONG. KERRY IS NOT ABOUT TO ATTACK SYRIA OR IRAN OR LEBANON OR SOMALIA OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY.

[Walt Starr]

38. I am saying to maintain a presence in IRaq

he will have no choice but to draft. I'm being very clear and simple in the statement., rosy pictures from politician's notwithstanding.

Military reality and the situation on the ground are the only factors I am looking at.

[Dems Will Win]

44. Ah! Then convince me with numbers.

The 2005 troop rotation: Please don't forget the additional 50,000 to 60,000 troops from Moslem countries, Russia, NATO countries and France that will come in when Kerry kicks PNAC out and gives true sovereignty to the Iraqis and they ask for French and UN peacekeepers.

The 2006 rotation: Who cares who rules in Iraq? I don't and neither will anyone else after this year. Kerry will get out during the year so there will be no or a small rotation. Troops are increased in Afghanistan maybe but that doesn't touch the no-double deployment problem, so no draft there either.

OK, so why would Kerry start a draft he will never need?

Plus re-enlistment and recruitment rates will soar back up when Kerry gets in as the troops will trust him and they hate AWOL.

WAITING FOR NUMBERS....

[Walt Starr]

47. Go back to the original estimates from the generals to fight and occupy Ir

Required troop strength was nearly double the levels they are currently. That requirement is still there if we are to continue this occupation. Dumbass* is holding off until after the election.

We need to DOUBLE the current level in order to MAINTAIN a presence in Iraq, ergo, a draft is necessary so long as we stay. You damn sure are not going to get those troiop levels even with a full blown committment from NATO.

Hard cold, military facts about the situation without throwing emotional bullshit about some candidate into the mix right there in front of you. I'm sorry if the truth hurts, but Kerry has no plan to keep a draft from being necessary.

[doni_georgia]

72. Just me thotz -

and pardon if I'm butting in.

I tend to think you both have valid points. The American forces in Iraq simply cannot keep the lid on with the current forces. We're seeing those numbers every day, in terms of casualties.

However, it's clear that even nations that are nominally our allies, with the exception of Britain, aren't particularly interested in helping B'rer Chimp extricate himself from the tar baby. And Britain's Prime Minister just watched his Labor Party finish third in an essentially two-party system, so it's clear that popular support for the Iraq operation in the UK is, um, limited.

My gut feeling is that getting rid of the Chimp, Trickier Dick, Condisleeza, Ronald McDumsfeld and the rest of their merry band of "pranksters" would immediately be a boost of American prestige. Part of the world's problem is with us, the American people - not just these bozos in charge. We let them get into office. By kicking them out on their sorry, deceitful asses, we will be indicating to the world that we're ready to start acting like what we have always said we are.

Kerry's numbers alone, I believe, will not be sufficient to meet the military need. However, I think that by booting Chimp et al, we will be able to garner a great deal more support around the world. Kerry's presence as a leader has been underestimated by the press. Prez Chimpo comes off like that kid we all knew in school - the undersized little snot who mouthed off at you every day for weeks until one day you finally decided, "enough's enough" and sent him to the dentist. Don't you remember? I do. And I remember the people who came up to me later and said "what the hell took you so long???" I tend to think that our allies will be a lot more forthcoming with assistance, once we get rid of that asshole.

Finally, reenlistment rates are likely to rise once the Chimp is officially evicted from 1600 Pa. Ave. I seriously doubt that John Kerry is anxious to launch another war after this total janfu we've been perpetuating. Peacekeeping operations aren't a perfect solution, especially on this kind of scale for two years, but the alternatives are to cut and run - which the Iraqis say they want now, but believe me, they'd change their tune if we actually just hauled stakes and marched on out - or to deploy a much larger force, dig in, and start building strip malls, since we're not leaving anytime soon. The bottom line is that our military is likely to see a rise in morale if they actually get a C.I.C. whose knowledge of military operations involves actual experience with the actual military.

In sum - our military is better off with Kerry, we the people are better off with Kerry, our allies would dearly love for us to vote for Kerry, and even the Iraqis would be better off with Kerry making decisions instead of the PNAC types. I'm not sure a draft will happen with Scratchy Ass, and I'm not sure one won't with Kerry. I do know that the larger situation is far more likely to improve under a Kerry administration than under the current one, and I think the current Bozo In Charge is substantially more likely to begin conscription than Kerry even if all other factors between them were equal (Chimpie won't have to worry about re-election down the road). We may not be able to avoid a draft altogether but Kerry is certainly the better alternative.

Thx

Mac in Ga

[PepSky]

68. Would you stop using Rove terms?

"The insurgency" why don't you just call them terrorists? When the right says "insurgency" they mean "Iraqi citizens that don't like being occupied".

[AntiCoup2K4]

42. As long as Kerry continues the neocon PNAC foreign policy

...a draft will be unavoidable as more invasions progress, acccording to the PNAC agenda. And no matter how they dress that fascist imperialistic nazi bullshit up as "progressive internationalism" or whatever false name they give it, you simply can't invade a third country while continuing the occupation of two others without the manpower.

Anyone who doesn't think Kerry will allow a draft are also the same ones under the delusion that he's still a "liberal", despite his support for this neocon heresy.

[Dems Will Win]

45. Are we on the same planet

Did I type in the wrong URL? Is this Free Republic?

First people say Kerry will reinstate the draft and offer no facts to back it up, now you say Kerry is a PNACer and plans to invade all the countries on the secret memo: Syria, Iran, Lebanon, Somalia, Sudan.

All without any support whatsoever.

Please provide the Kerry is a PNACer link then!

[Walt Starr]

52. I've offered facts to back it up

It's the military reality, not some rosy picture based upon current troop levels. The generals who originally made their estimates for troop levels based those estimates on a planned long-term occupation. We need twice the number of boots on the ground than what we have today. That means DRAFT unless we pull everybody out!

[Bjornsdotter]

64. I said...

Hi,

I said "I fear that there will be a draft NO matter who is elected...and yes I know Kerry said that there would be no draft and politicians never lie or change their minds."

First of all it's an opinion...and I AM allowed to have an opinion.
Second I absolutely stand by my statement that "politicians never lie or change their minds"...it happens.

Kerry is not a magic antidote to all of America's problems; if you think he is, you may be disappointed. The rest of the world is not going to immediately get on board just because Bush will be out of office.

Cheers,
Kim

[stellanoir]

12. the only way to avoid a draft is by having a regime change

and elect decent honest leader who will not mismanage the military, who will provide them with decent equipment, who will not cut their benefits or extend their tours of duty, or ever ever ever initiate a war based on lies.

Or we can all just convert to Quakerism. . .but then again, if college deferments will no longer apply, there probably isn't a whole lot of hope for the Quaker exemption either.

[LittleApple81]

14. I have a daughter who wants to join Doctors without Borders... dangerous

but honorable and idealistic. I worry terribly (if she gets to do it) but I admire her and support her.
I have a son who DOES not want to be in the army to go to a Bush war to kill, main, torture people who have done nothing to us. I don't either. None of these actions are admirable, courageous, or necessary, and I admire him and support him.
This is tragic news.

[anarchy1999]

55. All of the above, Dangerous, Honorable and Idealistic. Her heart is in

the right place. It is why I fear for my 16 yr old daughter, all she has ever wanted to be is an emergency room doctor (thanks, ER). My ex is an enlisted Navy jerk who never got over himself and lives in a rather backwards area of the country.

Video games that encourage fighting, backwards flag-waving patriotism, fold in lots of "God Bless America" and what do you get? A child who thinks by serving they will be serving the "greater good" and bringing freedom, peace and democracy to the savages.

God help us all if we don't put a stop to this insanity and soon.

[sable302]

15. we need to

raise a bunch of money and buy a full-page ad in every university newspaper in the country. The ad should include a good digest of our 'draft is gonna happen if * is elected' information. Because as of now, this just doesn't seem to be getting the attention from the draft agers as one might expect.

Maybe they all just want to go to Iraq.
:eyes:

[laylah]

28. All Universities have

campus newspapers. I have been forwarding everything that I can to the editor of the Colorado State University "Collegian", my alma mater. Colorado has slipped more and more into the abyss of Republicanism, it's disgusting.

So, my point is, pick a University, go to it's website, find the campus paper, and "fire away".

Jenn

[gWbush is Mabus]

17. I am for drafting Southern Babtist Convention members and other fundies

i hope those fuckers all die

[wurzel]

19. But it is OK for someone else's son to die???

If we had a citizen military, which is what a draft is, we would not be in Iraq today. A volunteer army is a PRIVATE army. It is ripe for political abuse of the kind we see today. There is no excuse for democrats to be against a draft army, and for a volunteer army. Especially as we all know who these "volunteers" are. Overwhelmingly the poor and the working poor.

[TSElliott]

20. I doubt it.

http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=200

[JayS]

21. Recruitment is way up down here. Last I heard there is still...

...a wait for an opening to go to boot camp. I wonder what it is like in other areas. Anyone know?

[Dems Will Win]

27. The Pentagon is lying (I'm shocked! Shocked and Awed!) Here is reality:

Voting with their feet

-snip-

"Stop loss is not only a breach of contract, it's a form of slavery," railed a Special Forces senior noncommissioned officer. "There's a tidal wave of folks getting out. ... The number of senior SF NCOs leaving is amazing. Our battalion had three of five sergeant majors retire, and our sister battalion had two of five. The number of master sergeants was well into double digits. I predict that the exodus will devastate the senior NCO corps at a time when experience and stability are most needed." Despite all the accentuate-the-positive spin coming out of the Pentagon, the anecdotal reports I've received – especially from Reserve and National Guard folks – agree with the SF sergeant and point to a mass exodus that will reach the hemorrhage point by mid-2005.

"Speaking off the record," writes a military wife, "my husband was supposed to come home from Iraq this week but has just been extended another 120 days. His old unit, 3rd Infantry Division, is already seeing an exodus of junior officers. Since their return from Iraq, 35 captains have left the Army for greener pastures. Several more – read: another 15-20 – are due to leave, but who knows whether or not they'll manage to do so before more stop losses and stop moves come down prior to their return to the desert ... Between separation from family, no guarantee of tour lengths, no clear mission and consistent pay problems, folks are pretty fed up. If they can get out, which is no small feat, they seem to be doing so while the getting is good."

-snip-

"We're stretched too thin," reports a sergeant. "Our CO admitted this to us during our tour in Afghanistan. He also admitted that morale is down due to the extending of tours. Yet the Pentagon insists there's no problem with morale. We lost over 75 percent of our unit when we got back. I know other units are having the same problems. If this trend continues, we won't have enough people to defend this country when the need arises."

I'm sure the brass have all the paperwork to back up their propaganda campaign. But as far as the old saw that "figures don't lie" goes, I've been around long enough to know that liars figure and soldiers know the truth. So I'll go with the soldiers.




Col. David H. Hackworth, author of his new best-selling "Steel My Soldiers' Hearts," "Price of Honor" and "About Face," has seen duty or reported as a sailor, soldier and military correspondent in nearly a dozen wars and conflicts – from the end of World War II to the recent fights against international terrorism.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38644

[JayS]

34. My statement was not from the Pentagon; it is from people...

...here that are signing up. I see a lot of them on the jogging trail here running with packs on their backs and have talked to them, and to friend's kids, about how things are going.

[Dems Will Win]

46. It's possible in a real conservative area but the recruiters are told to

lie through their teeth to get recruits. Tell them anything, that they even get their school paid for (sorry, not any more)! pEOPLE ARE JUST REPEATING THE BS, I'M AFRAID.

[JayS]

49. This is a pretty conservative area but mostly our economy...

...is one that sucks...permanently.

I'm sure the folks that I talk to are correct as they have already been sworn in and received their start dates and all that.

[DulceDecorum]

32. I say we get them to give us all guns

and then we frag 'em once we know just who they are.

[mopaul]

39. i got mine..............n/t

[AP]

33. Bush doesn't want a bigger government army. They want a private army.

They'll use declinging enlistment as an excuse to pay a corporation twice what it costs the government to run an army.

[GreenPartyVoter]

63. Very true.

[Raskolnik]

40. People need to sign up to sit on their local draft boards.

I can't emphasize this enough. If you are a professional person with ties to the community, you NEED to be sitting on these boards. These are the boards that decide who gets deferments and who gets signed up. If there is going to be a draft, we need to have a voice in its implementation.

We can't let them consist solely of Republicans this time around.

Do it!

[Blue Wally]

67. I was unaware the draft boards were all Republicans..

During the 1940-1972 draft years. The "guru" of the draft through most of those years was Gen Hershey who was appointed by FDR. The members of the board were ordinary citizens appointed to the post without partisan affiliation.

[Walt Starr]

48. Bump because it's coming even with Kerry

:kick:

[Dems Will Win]

51. That's your favorite issue now?

Don't vote for Kerry because he will restart the draft?

[Walt Starr]

53. Please, stop putting bullshit statements into my mouth

I never said to not vote for Kerry. I am voting for Kerry. I've donated money to Kerry's campaign. I've got a Kerry bumper sticker on my car. I talk to people about Kerry every day.

I'm also a realist and I know for a fact, Kerry will have no choice but to reinstate the draft. That's how fucked up the situation is in Iraq!

[Dems Will Win]

56. The why state them? You're hurting your own candidate?

I'm confused. You donate to Kerry and then come on to DU and warn everone he's starting the draft. Fastest way I know of around here to DEACTIVATE WORKERS AND LOWER DEM MORALE. What could possible be your rationale for such behavior.

Please explain.

And while you're explaining that, please tell us what a President Kerry would do with the several hundred thousand troops urged by Shinseki? Burn Falluja to the ground/ Sadr City in ruins?

See, that's where your whole anti-Kerry argument falls to pieces. OK Kerry restarts the DRAFT and has 300,000 to 700,000 in Iraq.

What are you saying he does next?

See, that's where you go off the deep end Walt and I'm trying to pull you back...

[Walt Starr]

57. I warn everybody that a draft is coming NO MATTER WHAT

because it's the truth. If you don't like the truth, I suggest you find some hole to hide in.

The Shinseki estimates are required to meet the obligation of maintaining order within the whole of the country. Bush's troop levels are there for one thing and one thing only, to guard the oil, Iraqi civilians be damned.

And you know what? The troop levels Rumsferatu estimated would be necessary to guard the oil fields DIDN'T TAKE BOMBING OF THE PIPELINES INTO ACCOUNT!

We need to double troop levels if we are to remain. That's the cold, harsh, military reality of the situation. I am only warning people to not expect Kerry to come in and magically change military reality.

[Dems Will Win]

59. You know neither one of must have a boss we're working for

So many posts!

To continue, I cannot see Kerry burning Falluja to the ground with the extra troops, nor fighting to retake Najaf or Ramadi or Sadr City, etc. etc.--nor even deploying them to protect the pipelines from all comers.

It's just not worth it.

Kerry is going to give them their country back and be done with it. Now if you are talking Special Ops to take down Zarqawi and al-Queda in Iraq I would agree he'll do that. But he is not going to fight the insurgents.

You really think Kerry will fight the insurgents for Iraq? See that's the difference between you and me and on this whole issue. If he fights the insurgents he need sthe troops but he won't. Several thousand Special Ops is the prescription for catching al-Queda, not putting more regular troops into a barrel to be shot at.

[Walt Starr]

61. He doesn't *NEED* to attack insurgents

Under the Geneva Conventions, the United States is responsible for restoring order to Iraq. In order to accomplish that, twice the current troop levels are necessary. Those were the original estimates and NOTHING ab out the situation in Iraq suggests that those troop level estimates for maintaining an occupying force were inaccurate. In fact, if anything, they may have UNDERestimated the required troop levels

Kerry is going to win in November, find out how horribly Bushco fucked things up in December, and have to make an announcement to the nation no later than February because things are precisely THAT FUCKED UP!

Fortunately for Kerry, Bush started down the road of blaming everything on a previous administration, so he'll be able to do just that in the first few months of his administration.

either way, get used to the idea of a draft, it's coming regardless...

[Dems Will Win]

60. You know neither one of us must have a boss we're working for!

So many posts!

To continue, I cannot see Kerry burning Falluja to the ground with the extra troops, nor fighting to retake Najaf or Ramadi or Sadr City, etc. etc.--nor even deploying them to protect the pipelines from all comers.

It's just not worth it.

Kerry is going to give them their country back and be done with it. Now if you are talking Special Ops to take down Zarqawi and al-Queda in Iraq I would agree he'll do that. But he is not going to fight the insurgents.

You really think Kerry will fight the insurgents for Iraq? See that's the difference between you and me and on this whole issue. If he fights the insurgents he need sthe troops but he won't. Several thousand Special Ops is the prescription for catching al-Queda, not putting more regular troops into a barrel to be shot at.

[Sterling]

73. Maybe he is not a dumbass?

And would look like one to smart people if he pretended Kerry was perfect? Sorry, my own credibilty is more important than whatever cult of personality you may have bought into.

Kerry is not a fucking super hero and if you insist on pretending he is not subject to the same reality we all live in no one is going to take you seriously.

[Section One]

76. It's more likely to come WITH Kerry

I don't recall hearing Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al. saying anything positive about plans to reinstate the draft. The only ones I'm hearing it from are democrats, most notably Charlie Rangle. There currently two bills calling for the reinstatement of the draft: S89 proposed by Fritz Hollings, (D-SC) on Jan. 7, 2003, and H.R. 163 by Rangle (D-NY). You don't think Kerry wouldn't sign democrat sponsored bills if they passed? I'm not so sure.

[anarchy1999]

50. There was another post up about this earlier, something about a House Bill

and mandatory 2 year service. My daughter is 16 and I will take her out of this country before I let her pick up a gun for the corporations. Never and not in my lifetime.

[Dems Will Win]

54. Pay no attention to those bills they are Dem protests and will never

come to the floor as they draft women!

The real issue is Bush wanting to invade 5 more countries and is right now reactivating the draft system with $28 million this summer and fall.

[Chomskyite]

58. Only if Bush is elected in 04

There's no way it happens otherwise.

[annabanana]

62. Tell every 18 - 30 year old you know.. and their friends

So many kids have no idea this is happening. It's like they grew up in the 50's & early 60's (like me).... completely oblivious until they're convinced that YES IT CONCERNS THEM.

[Blue Wally]

66. If you grew up in the fifties..........

You would know how deep the draft cut then. Kids coming of draft age during the fifties were born 1930-1940 which means that there weren't very many of us (I was born in 39). We were maintaining a very large army during those years (varied from 850,000 at the end to over a million at the Korean War beginning). As a result, very, very few of us avoided doing two years (or better) of military service.

[redwitch]

65. my oldest son turns 18 in January

youngest will be 14 this summer. 18 says he will not be drafted, he'd rather go to jail. 14 yr old doesn't give much thought to this stuff yet (thank God!). I do not believe our families are unique- lots of us would rather fight than give up our kids. Hell no, our sons won't go.

[Lestat]

71. The government can kiss my ass if they expect me to serve...

if I get drafted.

FUCK YOU LAWMAKERS! WHY DON'T YOU GO FIGHT YOU COWARDS???

[FlemingsGhost]

74. Bring back the draft! Let's get this party started ...

Although I have plenty of friends and family members that will be affected, I say "bring it on!" It'll shake the apathy and indifference I see in all of them.

[Sugarbleus]

75. This is not new news...it's been coming.

Matter of fact, I watched J.Biden in Senate today talking about the war and money etc. He talked about how the "stop loss" order in place right now IS a form of conscription for those already serving. It is FORCING those who have already served thier contract term to STAY LONGER!!

Other websites have been talking about how "The draft IS coming"...
I hope our leaders under Kerry come up with a solution because I don't want my grandson (whom I'm raising) to go to war in Iraq either.

There is a website called Center for Conscience and War. It deals with what to do about being a CO--how it used to work,how it works or doesn't work now and what young people need to know. Go look into it.
Get your rap down pat, right now!

Good luck to all of us with young ones.......