Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

DLC's head in the sand plan – not working. (Recall)

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 11:00 AM
Original message
DLC's head in the sand plan – not working. (Recall)
It looks like Gray Davis's number are slipping, resulting a snow-ball's chance in hell that he will survive the recall. And what happens to be the Democratic response? "It’s a Carl Rove trick." :eyes: Have we learned nothing over the past two months?

The DLC's response to the partition drive for the recall was "they will never get enough votes." When they got the votes, the DLC said "those votes are real, they will never stand up in court." When the votes were certified, the DCL's response was, "Davis will win handily." Are we picking up a trend here?

While I have little believe in the words of Rove, I strongly doubt the polls in California are as fictional as many Democrats would believe. So why is Davis falling? Easy answer. HE WILL NOT FIGHT! Not even for his own servile.

Did Davis cause the Electric crises of 2000 & 2001? Nope. But why isn't Davis saying this? And its been a year now and we have yet to see a push to reform or repeal the deregulation's that caused the crises in the first place.

Is the White House behind the recall? Hard not to think so with so many Bush campaign specializes running the show, and GOP insiders donating money and expertise's. But is Davis talking about this? Course not.

Flaws within the voting system have been found out. Its likely that flawed will taint even the California election. But is Davis talking about that? I read more about this at the Free Republic than from Davis' web sight.

These are examples of not fidgeting. And so long as Davis doesn’t fight, he doesn’t stand a chance. But this isn't just about his recall defenses (or lack their of). Now mind you, this is all through the looking glass of the so called "liberal biased media." It's nearly impossible to know what is going on. Truth be said, Davis could be foaming at the mouth at these issues, even as we speak. And how would we know?

But that is a part of the failure. Ranting on the O'Rally show, is not speaking out on the isses. But doses Davis know this? Not a chance in hell. He is still playing the "press conference," and yet he clearly doesn’t bother to read his own press as the liberal media paints him out to be a crooked clown. And if he douse, he doesn't answer it. The media is practically flooded with lies about his administration, and Davis has yet to address even one of them. NOT ONE! In fact, I can't even say he has said any thing. The last thing I heard him say is "I will fight this!" (Famous last words if ever they were spoken.)

This is an over all pattern. Not just of the Davis administration, but of DLC office holders in general. The first rule the book is "do not go negative." This means that a DLC candidate has to "attack" his opponents through accolades and complements. The second rule in the book is "Republicans are popular" so according to DLC wisdom, Democrats can only win by co-opting the Republican agenda. At the vary least, not openly opposing the Republican agenda. The so called "me too" strategy.

The writing is on the wall. California has already fallen to the GOP. I see more confusion than any thing else. Heck, I have even seen California's looking to the DLC for leadership here. Should we support Davis, or not. But they have been hemwahed from the start, and continue to be so. The whole thing reeks of GOP manipulation. But the DLC comes out on the stage warring a gas mask, still apparently unable to smell the fascism. The DLC still "respects and admires their opponents from across the ills" even as Republicans latterly choke the life out of them.

I said this once, I will say it again. Davis was week the moment this recall got started. If the Republicans had doubted this, they wouldn't have tried it. But voters in California, just as they have in the rest of the country, have had little choise. Tweadel Dum and Tweadel Dem. Stand a DLC candidate next to the GOP, and the Dem comes off as "the lesser of two evils." But the recall vote only pits Davis against himself, and that "lesser evil" suddenly becomes hard to ignore.

Of course, the voters in California have been tricked. If they vote Davis out, they will latterly be voting to slit their own throats. And there will be much partying in the mansions of the GOP as Diebold salivates with new contract possibilities.

But the DLC is not clear of blame here. They should have put up another candidate to back up the Recall. Why? Because for a while there, this recall was an unprecedented opportunity for the liberal and progressive side. It was a chance to directly test the Centrist, vs the Liberal and Progressive position. If Davis was week, then put up a stronger candidate. This would have been a win win for the DLC as this would have forced the GOP on the defensive. If Davis lost the recall, then they risked having a stronger far more liberal governor being elected. They might have even been forced to back off their own recall initiative.

But no, it was argued "what would such a candidate run on?" How about the truth for once. The DLC calculated the lesser risk, and was out flanked. But what was really going on was the DLC's "head in the sand" strategy. They are so certain of their "centrist" position, that it has yet to accrue to them that this position may just be unpopular, despite the rank and file informing them of this over and over again. From the DLC's stand point, putting up a more liberal candidate would have been an indictment of the middle vote. And that is something the DLC just isn't prepared to do.

"But Code Name" I hear you say, "No one was waiting in the wings to try." But isn't that the DLC's job? To find, support, and develop leaders leaders? Part of the DLC's job is to fiscally support writers, colonists, and satirist, as well as providing them a forum through which to speak. Thus freeing them up to study and speak out on politics. To tour the country to see what they could see. Even such seemingly frivolous positions of song writers did their thing on the parties dime.

But this is no longer how things are done. It's "retail politics now" and candidates are tailored to donors, not the people.

What now?
Good question. Californian only has one option. Vote no on the recall. But it is increasingly becoming evident that Davis will fall. Then what? Court challenges form here to the end of time? (Or at least the end of Californian?) Another recall vote is likely, and then another, and then another.

I hate to say this, but this is less about "what you want to do" and more about "what are your choices." Options through political means have already been illuminated by the GOP, and the DLC will not now, or ever challenge them. There is only two options that remain, civil over through of the standing government, or the construction of a true second party. Construction of a party that will step into hollow void left behind by the DLC. But Californians must move quickly. There is little time for such a bold venture that may well prove impossible. But what choice douses California really has? What hope is there for America in general?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. Davis has said this, IT IS NOT MY FAULT!!!
But the idiots of Cali don't care. They need to blame someone! Maybe Democracy for the masses doesn't work???
Don't get angry at this comment, but let's be honest here. Arnie is getting MAJOR support because of name reconition!!!
That's why we vote for someone because they are a movie star??? The SHEEPLE are REALLY that STUPID!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. "Not my fault" is part of the problem.
"Not my fault" is part of the problem. Davis is only stating the obvious. But that still isn't enugh. Davis has to make it known to the public what actually happened. He has to put foreword a public awareness campaign to educate the people of California what the situation is in regards to the grid. These are not simple issues. The nature of the subject is highly technical, with few quick fixes, and many shades of gray in between. So much so that there is little public policy at work here, and mostly technical issues. To my knowledge, there is no such campaign. I suspect this is so because of gag orders by taking the mater to court. There, Davis has won just enough to prove himself correct (to the judge) but no one else yet knows about it. And Davis seems willing to do little else than argue about the issue.

It is also beside the point. Davis isn't benign blamed for the electric crises by his supporters or the Dems. The charge there is "he didn't do enough to combat it," and that is a charge that is sticking. Davis was bargaining with the jackals when he probably should have used his powers of eminent domain to take over the plants. Davis has already said that he didn't do this because at the time, he believe the Enron side of the story. Thus, pissing off the activist and experts who had been following the crises ever since Peat Willson's pen touched the bill.

It isn't that Davis, or even the DLC dose nothing. It's that they will not fight. And sound bites don't qualify as the fidgeting spirit. And it's that reliance on sound bites that forces Californians in the state of ignorance.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. If he cant't use this blackout
even peripherally, then he is throwing the election away. This is a godsend where he needs only point to an event his brother governors not only did not avoid but learned absolutely nothing one way or the other from Davis' handling. So who is worse? Who is being recalled? What is the energy mess all about?

He doesn't even have to get deeply into it. Just put it out there for California to see.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Story: Man trapped in the flood.


Tee he. That reminds me of a story. About a man who wakes up one day, to discover that the river has overflowed its banks, and now surrounded him home, and the water was still rising. This forced him to retreat to his second story.

Right then and there, he gets down on his knees and prays. "Lord. I have served you all my life. If it is time for me to go, I shall go. But I have much of your works here that remains undone. Spare me so that I may complete them."

And then the room was filled with light. "You have indeed worked hard in my name, and your tasks on Earth are still undone. You shall be spared the wrath of this flood."

He jumps up in joy, just to hear the voice of the lord. But his joy was short lived as the water was quickly overrunning the second story of his home. So he pulls himself out the window to clime to the roof. But as he pulls himself up, he sees a large uprooted tree drift by. He could have easily reached it. But he let it pass. "The lord will save me," he said. So he claimed up to the roof. While on the roof, a man in a row boat came by. The man came up to the house, ready to take him, but the man refused. "The lord will save me," he shouted. And then, the current of the flood finally pulled the boat away.

The water continued to rise, and soon, the man was holding on to the top of his chimney, struggling against the current. And then over head, a helicopter appears. The pilot tried to get him to take up the safety line, but the man tossed it away. "The lord will save me." The helicopter then moved on to find others to save.

The water continued to rise, and soon, the man was inevitably swept away to his death. The next thing he saw, was the pearly gates with Saint Peater standing in attendance. "I don't understand," the man said, "The lord spoke to me. He told me that he was to spare me from the flood."

Saint Peater was shocked. "You mean you never got the tree, row boat, or the helicopter?"



Yes, Davis will let the North East power outage slip past him. It's just not his style to stir up such a hornets nest. But he isn't alone. There is a long long list scandals that the DLC dems have "Got'en over".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NicRic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. Agree, Arnold will win because name reco !
I thought to myself ,well at least he is probably a moderate repug. Then I heard a story that part of his team would be George Shultz, a member of regans team . This shows that Arnold is not his own man and will simply be another puppet of the extreme right ! Iam so disappointed in the Dem party ,to which I have been loyal to my entire life.Frist Gore,now Davis,does anyone see a pattern here. Or is everyone to busy being star struck ! If Arnold really had any sense of fairness ,he would not be part of this attempt (apprently sucessful one) to over turn a legal election ! Lets start going after every repug gov ,thats in a state with economic troubles ,because of bush that would be just about every state !
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. speaking of which . . .
anyone who thinks that GWB is toast in 2004 has their own head in the sand, if not up their ass . . . as things stand right now, he's going to sweep the election, no matter who the Dem candidate is, and this whole recall nonsense is part of his plan to take California and New York as part of that sweep . . . given that the BFEE has shown that they will do ANYTHING to get their way (start wars, LIHOP, rig elections, etc.), and given that the media is in their pocket, and given that the average joe and jane don't know what the hell's going on anyhow, watch for a Bush landslide in 04 . . . jmho, but that's sure how it's shaping up in my view . . .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
4. Davis does need to "foam at the mouth!"
This much is true. People need to see him as an actual human being instead of an automaton. He was been wronged, it's true, but that is irrelevant if he won't talk to people. He has to say that the anti-choice, bigoted right-wing is using this as a staging ground to overturn the will of the people. Arnie is surrounded by anti-choice right-wing bigots--he cannot be trusted. Bush campaigned as a "uniter" but has carried out a right-wing agenda. Bush would lose CA right now, and the recall should too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. What does the DLC have to do with this?
Edited on Fri Aug-15-03 02:31 PM by jiacinto
The DLC does not determine Davis's strategy. But then again the DLC here is responsible for every bad thing that has ever happened to the Dem Party.

Davis needs to fight back and he needs to fight back now. Bustamente and Davis need to work together.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. But Davis isn't going to fight back - so just get over it.
What dose the DLC have to do with this? Plenty, actually. The DLC and its companion, the DNC, are the two major organization wings that make up the Democratic party.

The DLC is essentially a committee of party operatives who annualize the party on a national scale. In short, they set the parties "platform" and the issues that the party stands for year to year. But they do more than that, they run a publications office and use that to help try and coordinate the democratic office holders, from city councilmen, to President of the US (All though the president usually leads the committee) and hands out the marching orders to all of the office holders in order to deal with government and politics where it relates to the Republicans. To that end, the DLC also plays a roll in research, running the parties archives, polling, and last but not least, recruiting.

Part of recruiting persons running for office, is of course funding their campaigns and providing advisers. But that also means that the DLC has the power to pick and choose whom they will support, and whom they will not. Now mind you that you do not have to have the DLC's support or permission to be a Democrat. But you will not get funding from the Democratic party unless you are endorsed by the DLC, and part of that endorsement is compliance with something called a "Strategy book" (part of that platform.) The strategy book is like the code of honor for a DLC democrat. But its function is extremly obscure until you look at the DNC.

The DNC is the fund raising arm of the Democratic party. The current strategy is to wine and dine big campaign donations from wealthy interests. And the DNC goes carousing with exactly the same players the GOP courts. But as more and more campaign funds are needed to power a campaign, the more concessions the DNC must make in order to secure the donations. In time, concessions become open blank check bribes for specific issues by special interests. It is these interests that make it into the strategy book. Not necessarily to further the interests, but to insure that you do not injure those interests, other wise, the donors are likely to pull their funds.

In other words, the DNC's primary duty is to harvest money, strings attached. The DLC then give that money only to candidates who will respect the strings that comes with it. This is why the DLC and DLC dems will not fight. Because fighting will alienate too many of their campaign donors. Many of who are the same donors who also give to the GOP. This is what some call retail politics.

Davis is a DLC Democrat. His campaign is centered more around not alienating his donor base, than actually seeing to business. That is why he isn't attacking any one, let alone his own enemies. But more importantly is that he truly believes in this approach, and is not prepared to question it. But even if he did, how could he? Questioning means loosing his donations, and he simply can not function without media attention those donations buy. Before he could start truly attacking, he would need an alternative media strategy in place. One vary similar to what Dean is using now.

Perhaps it is unfair to pin this directly on the national DLC however. That said, California is still more evidence of the failure of the DLC's centrist strategy. It is failing Davis on the state level, just as it has failed the 2002 congressional elections on the national.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FightinNewDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. What the *&#! are you talking about?
Do you have any clue what you are taliking about? Do you have any history of involvement in the Democratic Party beyond the internet? I kind of doubt that you do.

The DLC is essentially an advocacy group and a think-tank. It does not'I say again, DOES NOT- endorse candidates. Never has, never will. It does work to groom a farm team of local elected officials who can serve as future candidates for governor, congress, etc, but it does so through its "One Hundred to Watch" publication and through web and magazine articles spotlighting policy initiatives.

The DLC does NOT donate money to candidates, and it has no control over the DNC, DSCC, DLCC, DCCC or DGA purse strings. Do you honestly think that Russ Feingold, John Olver, Pat Leahy and Barbara Boxer were personally vetted by Al From and Bruce Reed?

I have no idea what this "strategy book" is supposed to be. The DLC publishes the Playbook every summer, but that's a compendium of policy initiatives on the state and local level, a means of sharing ideas. It's nothing sinister or mysterious, and the DLC is actually publishing the new material on its web site this month.

And no, there's no "secret book", either. I have attended numerous DLC events, know most of the group's leaders and have discussed running for office with several people in and close to the New Democrat movement. There's no pledge, no secret handshake and no decoder ring.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but this business of blaming the CA recall on the DLC is utter nonsense.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jiacinto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I would not bother dealing with them
They believe in their conspiarcies and nothing rational you or I say will change their minds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Wow, you have varified each of my claimes.
Or are you trying to argue sematics? Here is a hint. Try reading, before you respond.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. Excellent analysis /
rant.

And I agree so thoroughly re Davis not fighting. The recall effort should NEVER have gotten to the stage it did without unbelievable fighting from him. And every Dem in the U.S., for that matter.

But I'll say it again: if Arnold or any other Repug gets in, CA will fall in 2004. Mark my words. So we really need to figure out some way to succeed here.

Eloriel
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Code_Name_D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-16-03 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. The Recall could not have been stopped.
The nature of the ballet petitions is flawed, and the nature of these flaws have been known for some time. Chief of these is the fact that one can buy a signature for a dollar. Given the GOP has deep pockets, and nearly unlimited funds, a ballet initiative pushed by the GOP is almost assured to make it to the booth, and equally assured of failing at the booth. So I think it's unfair to try and hang Davis for failing to stop the recall.

On this issue, the only thing I can fault Davis on is the notion that "they would never get the signatures." He should have known better. Instead, he po-poed the whole effort, thinking that it would just go away. Chuck that one up to incompetence at worse, or as a gross miscalculation at best. You are right, he did not fight the petition drive when he should have. But at best, he would have only slowed it's progress.

We do have to be more specific. We like to say "the dems are not fighting," but what do we mean by that? When you go to the movies, saying that the movie sucked may be cathartic for the patron, but hardly constructive for the director.

I define "fight" by these criteria.

1) The opposition to bad law and bad policy. NOT adding amendments to bad law to make it more palatable to the masses. Then claim victory when the bad law is passed with Democratic signatures on it.

2) Strict adherence to the spirit of the law. And when the letter is found to violate the spirit, to be prepared and able to engage in civil disobedience to uphold the spirit of the law. The Killer D's now in Nevada comes to mind. NOT to just "get over it."

3) To be a voice for the record. Davis could have slowed this recall by talking about the people who are behind it, and the people who are funding it. Who they are, and they're civic record, and even criminal record, happens to be. A few of them even have writings that may be quoted against them. This is not "going negative." It is nothing more that voicing the record.

4) Do not fear the fall out! It's one thing to say that "impeaching Bush is impossible" (because it is largely true), but I have heard a lot of Democrats say that they can't impeach Bush because of fear of the fall out. That would mean new elections, that would mean Bill Frisk (also a right wing nut) would become President. On and on and on. I am quite fond of the following quote; "let justice be done, though the heavens may fall." Such sentiments are a testament to how highly Americans regard the rule of law.

5) Speak passion to the people. Right now, I would give my left eye for some fire and brimstone from a Democrat. But fiery words are not really the point as much as the point is capturing, and holding the audience's attention. The art of the orator is truly a lost art. And the worst speaker was Bill Clinton. Now that is not to say he isn't a good speaker, or that he didn't speak to the issues. But the guy drones on and on and on, delving into numbing minutia. Our forefathers however were artful speakers. Their speakers were more like poems. In the early 20th century, humor took the podium. Martian Luther King Jr. used the same style of speaking used by black sermons of his day, but using a "second" (A second person who would stand behind him, and give a sound bite between the lines of the speech. Words like, "amen" and "I hear you, brother." It was an art form in an of itself. It also directly engaged the audience.) These speaking styles made the speech memorable, and even permitted the audience to repeat the highlights of the speech to their neighbors. A few memorably speeches have even been remembered by history, and have outlived the orators. No one speaks in such a way today.

I also define this by "speaking" to the people. In this media dominated world, we have the attitude that if the TV doesn’t say it, it never happened. This is reinforced by the candidates who seem to hold the opinion that any thing worth saying must be said on TV. Quick, where are the words "We the People, in order to form a more perfect Union," written? With the right wing dominated media today, our Dem candidates will have far better success trying to reach the people through the written word, or even MP3's over the internet.

6) To directly engage the opponent in relentless debate. In the 1999 presidential debates between Gore and Bush, I was appalled that only three were agreed to at the finally days of the campaign. Gore was even asked about this. His answer was "that was the only time they (the Republicans) would agree too." I find this unacceptable. You do not need your opponent's permission to engage them in debate. While true, you can't expect TV or radio time to debate your opponent when ever you will, but just like point #5, there is more to the media than TV and radio. The most effective means of debating and challenging your opponent is ironically also the simplest, certified mail. The resulting correspondences provide you with the record from which to quote (point #3).

7) Be in a position to politically threaten the opposition. This is where I deliver my most stinging criticism against the DLC. Like when Jim Jefferds gave the Senate to the Dems, the Dems just sat on their hands and did nothing. Even though there was the California Electric scandal just preceding the hand over, they declined to investigate the Enron/California/Bush connections, even though they HAD the power to investigate the issue. Imagine the mess that would have become when they came across Enron's debt load. They could have prevented Enron's bankruptcy. Instead, they passed. When Bush was talking about going to war with Iraq, the DLC wanted to take about education and the economy. Making the DLC look ridiculously stupid and disconnected. The DLC also allowed the fairness doctrine to be taken down. (And I think they controlled Congress at the time.) and still think showing up on the O'Rilly who some how gives them good press.

The will to fight is worthless without the ability to fight. And here, the DLC have proven time and time again to be their own worst enemy. Who are these "unnamed Democrats" who keep saying "Bush can't be beaten?" Even eating their own, such as letting down Sinthya McKenny (sp) and attacking their own bases as "radical activists" are not smart moves. In fact they are so dumb and self destructive that many on the DU have speculated that the DLC in fact works from the instructions from Carl Rove himself.

But even though the Dems no longer control any branch of government, they still have tools at their disposal that they refuse to use. The Dems have the right to call for, and even organize marches, or at the vary least, work with the other protesting organizations. They have the power to fund web-casts, or to build a free press. They can, and should take the issues that can not air, directly to the people. But they don't even seem to be thinking outside the box.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. Sounds about right.
I don't think the DLC has much say in it all. But they probably would applaude Arnold winning, I mean, he seems center-right, thats what they are all about right.

I mean, DEAN is too liberal for them, lol.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Dec 27th 2024, 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC