TAG...you're IT.. to the tune of $15 BILLION

[SoCalDem]

I posted this yesterday in the Black out thread.. But we NEED to know what's likely to happen now.... It's gonna cost way more than the original 15 BILLION.. That was the figure BEFORE the blackout..

It's gonna be waaaay higher.. Get used to paying California-style prices for utilities..

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SoCalDem (1000+ posts) Thu Aug-14-03 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #96

99. Cheney's meeting and dereg ?? Found two more "attendees"


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=177323

SoCalDem (1000+ posts) Thu Aug-14-03 02:19 PM
Response to Original message

2. This is very interesting...Black & Veatch ....national power grid...

http://www.geni.org/energy/library/media_coverage/KansasCityStar/3accbbb0_607.html

Black & Veatch proposal envisions national power grid
By DAN MARGOLIES - The Kansas City Star
Date: 06/07/2001 22:15

With the Bush energy plan emphasizing production, Black & Veatch has unveiled a $15 billion proposal to establish a national power grid and to build power plants close to their fuel sources.

The Kansas City engineering and construction company calls its strategy TAG, short for TransAmerica Grid, and says it would increase supplies and reduce prices while bolstering the nation's grid capacity and reliability. "The energy crisis is not only about generating more power," said Dean Oskvig, president of Black & Veatch's power delivery division. "It's about getting surplus power to areas that need power."

....snip.....

The Black & Veatch proposal was developed in conjunction with Siemens AG. The two companies project capital costs of $3.8 billion for the proposed transmission system and about $11 billion for the power plants. The firms began developing the proposal in late 1998 and don't have any customers yet. The TAG system would address the problem of moving bulk power across the country. Experts say current electrical generation capability is sufficient to meet demand. But existing transmission grids, which move electricity from region to region, are considered inadequate to move electricity from areas of excess capacity to areas facing power shortages.

...snip....

To get the electricity to distant customers, TAG envisions the construction of high-voltage, direct-current transmission lines connecting the country's East and West coast grids. The new lines would add 6,000 megawatts to the current 1,000 megawatts of east-west transfer capability. The current transmission system basically consists of eastern and western interconnections that meet in Texas. The grids are separately synchronized alternating-current systems.

"The backbone of TAG is a high-voltage (direct current) system to move large blocks of power around the regions," Oskvig said. "The current grid is being used to move chunks of power in ways it wasn't designed to do. ... With TAG, if there was excess power-generating capability in the eastern U.S., and the western U.S. needed power, we could get it there."

Black & Veatch and Siemens pitched TAG in April to the energy task force headed by Vice President Dick Cheney. The proposal dovetails with a recommendation in the Bush administration's energy plan, unveiled last month, to look at the possibility of establishing a national grid and to identify measures to remove transmission bottlenecks. Right now, TAG is an idea in search of a customer. And it is not clear the idea would win universal acceptance.

...snip....

Oskvig said the technology underlying TAG was not exotic.

"What we're talking about is the first leg of an interstate superhighway system for transmission," he said.


To reach Dan Margolies, call [phone] or send e-mail to [e-mail].


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original Link: http://www.kcstar.com:80/item/pages/printer.pat,business/3accbbb0.607,.html
All content © 2001 The Kansas City Star

[pw]

1. Let me understand this

They're oging to address the problem of inability to manage long-distance power transmission by:

Making the nation even more dependent for its health on long-distance power transmission.

I know they say the new system will be so much more reliable than the old, but why don't they offer just a tiny bit of proof first?

[SoCalDem]

2. pw...you just don't GET it..

FIRST , they get their no-bid contracts for $15 Billion +.....THEN we find out it's CRAP..

That's the way things are done these days..:evilgrin:


come on,....get with the program :)

[shanti]

7. busy little beavers, weren't they?

as soon as they were sworn in, the got to work on the thievery. posthaste!

[Squeech]

3. The reason we use alternating current

is that direct current degrades badly over distance.

So if they're seriously thinking about a system that will transmit gigawatts across the continent, they must be thinking about wasting, I dunno, 98% of their generating capacity? Either that, or the guts of this scheme consist of transcontinental solid copper conduits, several feet in diameter? What a boondoggle!

Time to think about photovoltaics on the roof, folks.

[gristy]

4. direct current???????

To get the electricity to distant customers, TAG envisions the construction of high-voltage, direct-current transmission lines connecting the country's East and West coast grids.

Just HOW DUMB do they think we are?? I may be somewhat dumb, but dc tranmission of electricity is EVEN DUMBER!!!!

[ctex]

9. DC works fine for high capacity, long distance transmission

There are quite a number of DC power transmission lines in service in the US. DC power lines are less expensive per mile and, IIRC, have lower line losses than AC transmission. They are also in most circumstances more controllable.

The drawback of DC lines is the cost and associated losses of DC transformers and AC-to-DC-to AC conversion equipment. In Edison's day DC transformer technology and AC/DC conversion equipment was very rudimentary. This was the main reason AC current beat out DC in the marketplace.

[gristy]

5. power plants close to their fuel sources????

With the Bush energy plan emphasizing production, Black & Veatch has unveiled a $15 billion proposal to establish a national power grid and to build power plants close to their fuel sources.

So, according to this logic, we should build new power plants at our various deep-water ports? 'Cause that's where the oil is being brought in?

And since when is electricity easier to transport than oil? Any DUers know which is "easier" (i.e. more economical) to transport?

Historically, power plants have been built near where the electricity is CONSUMED.

[SoCalDem]

6. Bingo... Utility Co-Ops work best.. America USED to know this

several communities got together and shared the cost of building water plants, sewage systems, power plants, grain mills, and they employed LOCAL people to work there.. They charged ONLY what was necessary to keep the place running, pay the wages and upgrade as necessary..

The facilities were LOCAL, so pollution and other environmetal degradation was something they never wanted to do..It was THEIR community..


Absentee fat-cat ownership is EVIL :(

[NYC]

8. Everyone has heard of Thomas Edison.

If with all his "fame" and "glory" he couldn't push direct current on us, it's for a damned good reason Nikola Tesla's alternating current won out.

Thomas Edison invented the electric chair in his effort to prove that alternating current was dangerous. People STILL wouldn't opt for his direct current over the alternating current.

I can't keep up with all the scams. I'm trying to copy all these things so I can coordinate them, and perhaps develop a plan to get someone to stop this plundering of Americans.