Moore's next movie: Sicko, about health care

[AP]

Plot Outline: This film will focus on the American healthcare system, and will look at it through an inspection of the system of mental health care.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386032/

After reading Mari333 post, thought it was interesting the way Moore's movies logically follow one to the next, and how Michigan seems to be the place where all these themes play out.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

1. Wow. I can't wait for this next one.

Thanks for posting this.

[Dogmudgeon]

2. Michigan

Michigan seems to be one of those places in America where the worst and the best of everything come together like plutonium chunks in an atomic bomb.

That's not a hit at Michigan -- it's a great place. But it's also a cauldron, a forge, a reaction vessel. Mike Moore was blessed by geography and is in a good position to show how we have been cursed by a certain rhinestone cowboy.

--bkl

[TexasSissy]

3. Great subject. And so misunderstood. Michigan-Moore is from?

Is Moore from Michigan?

[AP]

4. He's from Flint.

You didn't know that?!

[Luminous Animal]

5. Sicko

Mike started preliminary production on Sicko before he even thought up Fahrenheit 911. It's for the best that F911 came out first because, based on the reviews I have read, it appears that he nails the facts and has produced a beautiful product. It will be a huge hit and will enhance Mike's reputation thus making it easier for him to get the funds to produce Sicko... not an easy subject to sell to the American public, in my opinion.

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. Welcome to DU

[Hoping4Change]

8. Hi there Luminous Animal. Love your name.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[Luminous Animal]

9. Thanks for the welcome! n/t

[Kanary]

7. S'pose he'll ever take up poverty?

That's the forgotten issue of the DEMs.......*somebody* needs to advocate for poverty issues.

Nah.....just not sexy enough........

Let 'em eat cake..........

Kanary

[Pithlet]

10. Have you ever seen Roger and Me?

He addresses it quite poignantly. Bowling for Columbine talks about welfare mothers having to commute more than an hour to the wealthy areas, forced to leave their children to inadequate care. I would say the issues of health care in this country also addresses poverty.

[AP]

11. I bet there will be a strong message about people signing up for the...

...army becaues they have no other career opportunities in F911.

I almost cry when, in the trailer, they show those kids playing basketball in that messed up street just before they show the soldiers getting shot at in Iraq.

His point with that edit is perfectly clear. It's an argument about poverty.

[Kanary]

14. The "point" has to be STRONG, it has to be "CLEAR"

and it has to be the MAIN FOCUS, not a side issue.

People are that eager to pick up on subleties. *YOU* saw the connection, but most people don't, and will pay attention to the main point, not the side issues.

NO candidate is pushing poverty issues. NONE. I'm one of the people right now faced with the HUD housing cuts, and know that I may very well not survive it. NOBODY wants to hear about that. NOBODY. There was a thread on that issue right here on DU, and it sank like a stone. Zero interest. Do you have any idea how it feels to know that hardly anybody gives a rip that you're facing extinction? IT HURTS. People care more about an endangered plant than they do endangered poor folk.

The issue has to be brought front and center, in no uncertain terms, as it's own issue, and not something to be inferred while talking about other things.

Kanary

[Nevernose]

15. You are absolutely correct; I've noticed the same thing

On John Kerry's website, some of the quotes would have been far more appropriate if he had referenced the poor. The current buzzword, however, is "middle-class." Could it be that the middle-class votes more? Or that the lower-class, which contrary to popular belief is largely white -- tends to vote Repug?

[Kanary]

16. Thank you for acknowledging the *fact*!

Poverty has been put on IGNORE by the DEMs. As I said, "It's sooo last decade......"

I'm not even going to get into the "vote" issue........... I tried to explain once what it feels like to be at the bottom of the heap, fighting for your very existance, and how voting fits into that, and got roundly chewed up and spit out here, and I'm not going through that again.

Folks, you can all hang back and expound on "the poor", and how they don't do this, and they don't do that, and give prescriptions for "the poor", but it's nothing more than the same thing the reich wing is doing. And we sure see that solvoing a lot, right? /sarcasm.

It's time to LISTEN to poor folk, and find out what THEY (and *I*) think and feel and need, instead of making proclamations from on high, then denouncing poor folk when nothing changes.

We actually have something to say.

Imagine that.

Kanary

[Nevernose]

18. When I speak of poor people voting

It sure as hell ain't coming from "on high." Last year was the first year I've ever broken the poverty level -- and that was because I took out some student loans so I could go back to college! Many/most of my friends and neighbors throughout my life have been or currently are poor. I don't mean "lower middle-class," I mean poor.

I'm the only Democrat, and one of the few who follows politics. The rest don't think it applies to them (it's as if politics is a rich person's sport -- like the upperclass in England goes fox-hunting). My friends and neighbors who do follow politics even superficially are, God love 'em, straight PWT, and they don't care about health care, WIC, pollution ... they don't understand HUD/Section 8/Etc., even when they're getting assistance, and consequently blame the government ... All they care about is haveing a big military and kicking some other country's ass. If we're blowing the shit out of a third world nation, they're content.

And consequently they vote Republican, even buying that tax breaks for the wealthy will get them better jobs in the long run.

I blame most of it on ignorance and poor education, leading to the inability to discern truth from lies in 30 second campaign ads and the complete unwillingness to further research or even discuss the real issues facing us. Add to that the apathy brought about by the inertia of poverty, and we're left with a huge voting block unwilling to even pay attention to the issues, much less vote.

I should mention that while I'm the only Democrat (or at least white Democrat) amongst my poor social circle, I'm also the only one who even bothers to vote, Dem or Republican.

Thanks for reading an overly long post. I'm curious: Have your experiences/perceptions been simialr to mine? What do you propose we (meaning progressives) can do about it?

[Kanary]

13. That was about factory closings, jobs lost... etc

People can hear that more, because it's closer to them.

And, no, "issues of health care" don't "also address poverty". MOST people who are talking about health care are middle class, and feeling the pinch. Haven't you seen right here on DU people advocating cash-only medical services??? To hell with poor folk who don't HAVE the damned cash... as long as it fits middle class needs, then that's all that matters. Haven't you seen the advocacy right here on DU for making mandatory "copays" and "deductibles" for *EVERYONE*? So, people who don't even have a couple of bucks left for their damned copays are still outta luck.

No, real poverty issues have faded from view. "It's sooooo last decade" NAFTA, outsourcing, etc are popular causes, but real poverty issues.......... naw......... not important.

We need a strong advocate now.

Doubt it will be Michael Moore, but ......... we sure need *someone*.

Kanary

[babzilla]

21. maybe that *someone* is you

there is nothing stopping you from doing what Michael Moore did when he decided to make Roger & Me.

You too can address "real poverty issues" if you are so impassioned. I think that is Michael Moore's real message.

Yes, Roger & Me was a documentary about factory closings.

It is an exercise in which Moore acts as an advocate for the laid-off citizens of his hometown Flint, Michigan.

The whole premise of the movie is Michael Moore's relentless pursuit of GM CEO Roger Smith in an attempt to confront him with the ramifications to the community.

The GM decision to shut down the economy of a city that was built to serve the interests of GM is a notably heartless thing to witness.

Bravo to Michael Moore for bringing the big-picture to the big-screen.

[Kanary]

23. Yeah, right....... can't even get a place to live,

but I'm expected to WORK MIRACLES

I also know that no matter what I say at this point, you'll just tell me it's all up to me.

Well, same for all the other stuff....... Let everyone solve their own problems, eh?

Kanary, who gives up trying to get "libruls" to care about poverty anymore.

[Pithlet]

29. I agree with you

That we need a strong advocate for poverty issues. It saddens and disgusts me that not enough care about it, even in our own party. But, I don't agree with you that the health care issue doesn't address that. Yes, people here on DU have advocated things that do nothing for the poor, but that is nothing new. There are people here who buy into the poor are lazy myth. As reprehensible as I find that argument, and as much as I've argued stridently against it, there is a broad spectrum of political beliefs here. That doesn't change the fact that most people who advocate for national health care, here on DU and elsewhere, have the poor in mind. I have never seen ONE person who advocates for single payer health care make an exception for the poor. The argument is that NO ONE should go without decent health care. How many times have I seen people say here on DU that they think it is disgusting that anyone in this country live without basic, preventative health care?

So, because it was about factory closings means it doesn't address poverty? Why do you think he was discussing them? That is why most of the people in his film were poor. They lost their jobs, and couldn't find ones to replace them that pay as well. I grew up in Flint. I know all about poor. I've seen it. A majority of my friends were poor and they were poor because GM screwed the city over, and they all lost their jobs. Addressing how corporations leach off of communities by demanding huge tax breaks so they don't haver to help establish the infrastructure that allows them to to business, in exchange for jobs for that community. And then snatch away those very jobs they promised. A lot of people flocked to those areas and were left high and dry, living in a broken city. And poor.

[Luminous Animal]

12. Poverty

And certainly in Sicko, he will point out how many people end up in poverty because of inaquate or no insurance. Also I am sure he will include footage of those who have to choose between medicine and food.

[davsand]

17. Change IS in the wind!

There is a LOT going on right now on the issue of charity care and poverty medicine. I've been tracking it because of my involvement in the original case here in Illinois with Provena, but if you do a Google news search on the word "provena" you will see a large number of lawsuits are coming out--and they ARE forcing hospitals to pony up on both charity care as well as on charging the uninsured the same rates as the folks with insurance.

Here is one article from the Miami Herald:

Suits: Nonprofit hospitals fail poor

Attorneys who successfully sued Big Tobacco have a new target: nonprofit hospitals. They are charged with not doing enough to ensure proper care for the nation's indigent.

BY JOHN DORSCHNER

[e-mail]


Launching a major nationwide initiative against nonprofit hospitals, a Mississippi law firm that helped win billions of dollars from the tobacco industry has filed more than a dozen lawsuits -- including one against Baptist Health South Florida.

The suits allege that the hospitals have abandoned their charity role and gouged the uninsured by charging them much higher rates than insurance plans pay...

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/business/8951138.htm

Here is a press release that lists several hospitals who are being sued in class action suits:

Uninsureds Bring Class Actions Against Nonprofit Hospitals For Failing To Provide Government Required Charity Care
Thursday June 17, 7:29 am ET
Litigation Is Focused On Assuring That The Nonprofit Hospitals Properly Fulfill Their Missions And Obligations Of Providing Charity Care To Those Who Need It Most

OXFORD, Miss., June 17 /PRNewswire/ -- Class actions have been filed against some of the largest nonprofit hospitals in the U.S. by uninsured patients of said hospitals. The litigation seeks to stop nonprofit hospitals from intentionally failing to fulfill their agreements with the United States Government, states, and local counties to provide charitable medical care to their uninsured patients in return for substantial tax exemptions. Named as a conspirator in the litigation is the American Hospital Association ("AHA"), the national trade association for nonprofit hospitals, who advise and provide substantial assistance to the defendants on all manners of hospital operation, including billing and collection practices concerning the uninsured.
Uninsured patients allege that the named hospitals retain hundreds of millions of dollars annually as a result of their tax-exempt status, in exchange for which the hospitals should be providing charity care. Instead, the hospitals charge the uninsured "sticker" prices for healthcare, an amount higher than any other patient group, and then, when the uninsured can't pay, harass the uninsured through, among other tactics, aggressive collection efforts such as garnishment of wages and bank accounts, seizures of homes, and personal bankruptcies...

snip...

The class action litigations that have been filed are in several states:

Illinois, Minnesota, Ohio, Georgia, Alabama, Florida and Tennessee are the ones cited in this article--with several locations listed in each state.

Change is coming, and it wasn't forced by movies or marches, It was been forced by LOCAL guys taking a stand and doing something about it.

I know because I was one of the local guys that took a stand.

Laura

Edited to add press release address:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040617/nyth079_1.html

[babzilla]

20. Poverty is a major theme in most of his work

Roger & Me
Pets or Meat
The Big One
TV Nation
The Awful Truth
Downsize This!
Stupid White Men
Dude, where's my country?


What do all of these Michael Moore projects have in common?
It is the theme that the reality of the situation of the modern working class in america is dire, diminished, depressed and yes impoverished, due to the avarice of corporations and their union-busting ways.

Moore is actually a very unsexy voice, if only the democratic party leaders had the courage to be as unsexy.

Let 'em eat cake?

Is that a put down intended to insinuate that Moore cannot speak to the injustice of poverty because he has elevated himself above the poverty level due to the overwhelming success his projects have had in the "free-market".

Its funny when progressives are critiqued for beating the free-marketers at their own game.

Woe is me and what has this world come to when someone can profit from exposing the type of "class-warfare" that is *Moore's raison'd'etre?

*that's French for FU General Motors

[Kanary]

25. good job at jumping at confusions

Nobody criticised Michael Moore.

Y'know, it's really interesting how people here so often are LOOKING for a fight.

What I said was, and I repeat myself, it would be good if he would do a film on poverty.

I stand by that.

Kanary

[Pithlet]

30. What do you think

his movies have been about? I'm not saying it to pick a fight with you; I just want to see it from your perspective. What do you think the dominant theme has been in much of his movies and television programs?

[Tripper11]

19. Wow, I look forward to this....

we have a child with a severe mental illness. He's been dx'ed Disorganized shizophrenic. It's been tough, but we have fought for his rights since he was 4 and have gotten a lot of the help he has so desperatly needed. Problem is, there are so many kids, and adults out there without diagnosis, no meds no therapy and with all the * budget cuts it's made things much worse.

[ShaneGR]

22. I think he should do a movie on the american prison system...

It's very difficult to make a 2 hour film on it though, they vary from state to state. They are public and private. They house hundreds or thousands. Some are divided by offense, others house small-time drug dealers with rapists and murderers. They are old and new. Federal and State.

[stavka]

28. ...then Michigan is the perfect place

Prisons replaced factories and hospitals in Michigan. We have three industries; Automobile, Higher Education, and Prison in this state.

[keithyboy]

24. Will it begin with Reagan's emptying the mental institutions?

I remember when thay happened.

[stavka]

27. Michigan's Governor Engler Beat him to the Punch

[Mizmoon]

31. "emptying the mental institutions"

I get very sensitive about this subject. I have a relative who was imprisoned in a mental hospital for twenty years. We tried many times to get her out, but were told she was "too dangerous". When the hosptials were emptied they wanted us to take her home (after sooooo long) my aunt said "But you said she was dangerous". You know what they replied? "Have you ever seen her hit anyone?"

She lived the rest of her life free and in peace and never harmed a soul. There was no need to keep her locked up against her family's will. It did no one any good.

This subject turns good liberals into people I don't recognize sometimes. They want to see the "crazies" locked up. It breaks my heart. Let's not try to solve homelessness by locking people away. Let's not solve the mental health crisis by locking people away. Let's actually SOLVE it.

Liberals tend to get mean about this topic because we often are from cities like LA and NY where homeless people are very annoying. PLEASE don't confuse this issue with mental illness. They are different.

I'm shaking because I am almost afraid of the DU reactions. When even my fellow liberals want to lock a class of people away wholesale, I nearly lose hope that we will every solve this problem justly and fairly.

[stavka]

32. ...sorry, I feel your pain - but it is a different issue

In my state, people who needed help were thrown out into the street by the hundreds, where they were then arrested eventually.

Arrested enough times, or do the wrong thing because you no longer have access (volitionally or not) to medication, and you wind up in prison.

In prison, you can become slave labor in Michigan.

[Mizmoon]

33. The answer is not to lock them back up

in hospitals (a different sort of jail). It's to acually help them.

[stavka]

35. In Michigan..they were getting some help....

...but paying for it cut into somebody else's green time and trips to the alps for skiing

[Kanary]

34. You are soooo very right, and I'm so glad you have voiced this!

There were some good books several years ago, many written by ex-"patients" themselves, talking about just how bad the situation was in these "hospitals".

For many, the "release" was life-saving. Nobody wants to know about the hell-holes. What was/is done to people is criminal. In his speech about the torture in Iraq, Gore made the case that the prisons here in this country needed the same attention paid to torture, and I would say the same is true of mental "hospitals". There are heart-wrenching stories, but hardly anyone is willing to hear them.

I understand what you mean about being afraid of DU reactions......... many here don't like anything that departs from the "party line", no matter what lives are affected, and how badly it needs to be said.

However, rest assured that you've said what is important for others to know, and to understand. You've done your part, and done it well, and it's up to others to be open enough to hearing what you have to say.

I thank you.

Kanary

[loyalsister]

26. Not sure he's the guy to do it

He can tell this story about Michigan, but the truth is there's a different story in every state. "Health care in America" doesn't exist.
I think this is a strict documentary subject not a dramatic documentary subject.
The problem he's going to run into is facts. There is going to be a great deal of variation across state lines. Some states are better than others in different aspects. Anything even remotely related to state funded health care is going to differ significantly from state to state.
If he's going to do a story on "Health Care in America," he needs to make sure he sticks to elements regulated and funded by the federal government.