If WE Don't prosecute these bastards - will we be NEXT(EXPLODED PENIS) ?

[seventhson]

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040628-655389,00.html

One plaintiff, identified only as Neisef, claims that after he was taken from his home on the outskirts of Baghdad last November and sent to Abu Ghraib, Americans made him disrobe and attached electrical wires to his genitals. He claims he was shocked three times. Although a vein in his penis ruptured and he had blood in his urine, he says, he was refused medical attention



I say Bush, Cheney, Rummsfeld et al MUST be prosecuted for these crimes. And there is good legal authority for it:

(Newsday)

BY ELIZABETH HOLTZMAN
Elizabeth Holtzman is a former congresswoman, New York City comptroller and Brooklyn district attorney. She served on the House Judiciary Committee during impeachment of President Richard Nixon.

June 16, 2004


At a Senate hearing last week, Attorney General John Ashcroft claimed that President George W. Bush never ordered torture in connection with abusive interrogations of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan and violated no criminal laws of the United States. But the attorney general did not describe what the president did order with respect to these interrogations - and he refused to turn over key documents to the Senate.

The attorney general's self- serving sweeping denial disqualifies him from investigating and holding accountable those responsible for these interrogations. Ashcroft should appoint a special prosecutor to do so.

Under a little known statute, any American involved in the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners, including the president of the United States, could be guilty of a federal crime.

The War Crimes Act of 1996 punishes any U.S. national, civilian or military, who engages in a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions. A grave breach means the "willful killing, torture or inhuman treatment" of prisoners. If death results, the act imposes the death penalty.

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-vphol163851676jun16,0,5148566.story

[mongo]

1. Why hasn't the rest of the world spoken up about this?

Bush and Rummy should be tried in the Hague. Where is the international war crimes tribunal? Is the rest of the world that afraid of US? The USA needs to "liberated" by an international coalition.

[seventhson]

2. They speak but no one in the US is listening

the vote at the UN is coming up though on the international criminal court for war crimes jurisdiction over the US.

But Holtzman (whom I've met) makes a powerful argument for prosecution in the United States (if only we had the balls/ovaries to do so)

[Eric J in MN]

4. I doubt that the UN will vote to continue exempting the US. nt

nt

[nodehopper]

6. is it that pesky immunity?

If the soldiers have immunity, does that mean that the Commander-in-Chief has immunity too? I don't mean diplomatic, I mean the immunity that's being discussed right now, granted by votes in the UN that is in question for the US in the future.

[Eric J in MN]

9. We're talking about immunity from the International Criminal Court

We're talking about immunity from the International Criminal Court.

Yes, if the soldiers have immunity, so would their Commander-in-Chief from that court.

But the US exemption from the International Criminal Court is about to expire.

I don't think the UN will vote to extend it.

[nodehopper]

12. I agree, it looks unlikely that they will extend it

Even though US will try to bully the small countries to get strength in numbers, but I think enough countries will abstain to not let it squeak through again.

But the new status won't apply retroactively, correct? These war crimes will have still been committed under "exemption"?

[Eric J in MN]

3. I'm glad that Holzman wrote

I'm glad that Holzman wrote:
"forcing prisoners to engage in or simulate sexual acts"

instead of writing just "simulate sex acts" like most journalists.

The sex wasn't simulated.

Please read my article, "Real Torture, Real Sex, Real Electrodes at US Prisons in Iraq" at:
http://www.moveleft.com/moveleft_essay_2004_05_30_real_torture_real_sex_real_electrodes.asp

[nodehopper]

10. it's a very good article

That addresses the Orwellianism of the press covering those atrocities. My only question is why you place so much emphasis on homosexual rape when heterosexual rape has been frequent, judging from the reports. It's all rape, none of it is sex. Maybe I didn't read the article carefully enough, but it reminded me of that discourse in the media that annoys me that "the crimes at Abu Ghraib are ESPECIALLY bad because for Muslim men homosexuality is the biggest phobia ever."
Otherwise it's an excellent piece, thank you for writing it.

[seventhson]

16. great article

[Eric J in MN]

5. I guess that Rush Limbaugh will say that every fraternity

I guess that Rush Limbaugh will say that every fraternity shocks people's genitals with electrodes.

[DaveSZ]

8. This is outrageous

Gore was right when he called these war crimes.

[walldude]

11. If I'm not mistaken

and I don't think I am, most nations signed an agreement with the U.S. before the war started that they wouldn't bring the U.S. before international courts for any crimes commited in the war. The only country I think that didn't sign was Belgium. Guess they didn't need any of our money.

[disinfo_guy]

19. every actor and politician who minimized and excused these crimes

should be held accountable for their public statements. Whatever "credibility" they may have had is utterly, completely gone.

[Eric J in MN]

7. Why isn't Eliizabeth Holtzman still in Congress?

Why isn't Eliizabeth Holtzman still in Congress?

She's about 64.

Was she voted out? Did she retire from Congress for some reason?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. She gave up her Congressional seat to run for Senate from NY

Unfortunately, Jacob Javits decided to run against her as a third candidate (I don't remember the exact circumstances). They split the Dem vote, and Alphonse D'Amato, the Republicanite candidate, got in instead.

It's a real shame.

[seventhson]

17. she was targeted by the right wing and was defeated in...

the Reagan "revolution" of 1980.

They beat her up bad as I recollect.

I met her the day she was cleaning out her offices and came by my uncle's office (he was a NY Congressman) to say goodbye. She was in tears.

[Eric J in MN]

18. I hope she'll run for the House again (nt)

nt

[Eric J in MN]

13. Everyone should be able to read the complete Taguba report

Everyone should be able to read the complete Taguba report.

They aren't classifying parts like this to protect national security.

They're doing so to make is easier for their cronies to tell lies and betlittle the torture.

[disinfo_guy]

15. 2 Marines plead guilty to electrocuting prisoner

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06/03/prisoner.abuse.marines.ap/

Two 19-year-old Marines pleaded guilty to giving electric shocks to an Iraqi prisoner they were guarding in early April, months after the Abu Ghraib prison abuse, military officials said.

The Marines attached wires to a power convertor, which delivered 110 volts of electricity to the detainee as he returned from the bathroom, the statement said.